Concert Conduct

[pinkunicorn123]

Go.........

[sariflor]

I said all I had to say about this (for now) in the Brixton 26/02/08 thread:thumb_yello:

[pinkunicorn123]

I said all I had to say about this (for now) in the Brixton 26/02/08 thread:thumb_yello:

 

Play the game, this affects all gigs, not just brixton and should therefore not be restricted to the brixton review thread.

[Satya82]

Here's what I said in the 2-26 thread:

 

With regards to waiting in line, the pushing, the shoving, etc, I do think seated venues are ideal. The only downside is that you can't wait in line really early to get front row. The most dedicated Mika fan might be in the back, while someone who doesn't really care might be front row. That kind of sucks. (But I would love it if MFC members could get pre-sale tickets.)

 

For those of you who don't know, I've been a Hanson fan for over 10 years, and Hanson fans are CRAZY. Fans would spend the night outside venues to get front row the next day. I just don't have the dedication to do that. I wouldn't make it.

 

So all in all, we're leaning toward seated venues? Because otherwise, people will cheat and cut in line, and push, and shove. Everyone wants the front, and everyone wants the best.

[Niki27]

I remember that Sariflor (yes, her, again ) had told me that it was everyone for himself during Mika gigs and that good manners seemed to suddenly vanish.

I must say I didn't believe her at first, and was very saddened when I found out how right she was.

 

I really can't think of any serious solution to this all queue-jumping issue tho.

It's very touchy cause it also involves friendship between MFCers, and particular circumstances. If your best MFC-friend is stuck at work until 6PM for example, it's quite hard to tell that person to stay at the back. But, it is what has to be done I'm afraid. Cause it's just not fair for the rest of the people to let people front.

 

EDIT

I'm against seated venues cause they usually sell the best spots at a higher price and that would cause segregation based on the money you can spend.

[Diana]

A summary:

 

People have been jumping the queue at several gigs now.

Others have been given preferential treatment because they faked a disability.. or at least made it seem worse than it was.

This is reason for concern ofcourse because it's simply not fair to the rest of us.

 

Especially with the queue jumping complaints have been made about people's behaviour or lack there of.

 

Now, what can we do about this? Is there something we can do?

What are your experiences in the queue? Etc. etc. discuss.

[pinkunicorn123]

I have pulled quite a few quotes from the brixton thread for those wanting to catch up.

Obviously it will read a little differently since you cant see the quotes others used, and smiles have gone, but the idea is there.

 

*cough*

 

sorry I have a cold after two days of queueing for f#ck all

Gigs were great, most MFCers greater, just sad that a few idiots and some stupid security twats can make you forget about a lot of the good stuff

 

I'm not gonna make a long report now, just wanna say a special thanks to the wonderful people I've met And to give the middle finger to the people who deserve it, you should be able to understand it even if it's not a french finge

 

I can't believe you still remember that! But thanks anyway , I'm glad I could help, even though (as usual) I so often didn't ask for one myself when I had the chance. Oh well.

 

 

You know Jemma, I think you're very right and hit the nail on the head.

We've had some amazing experiences and it's becoming harder and harder to get them again, and possibly we will soon never have them again...I'm coming to that realisation now as well.

About seated venues: I'm totally for that now, after witnessing the madness (and MEANNESS of many) when it came to trying to get to the front yesterday.

Not wanting to get too dramatic, it has amazed me to see how some people can let out the worst in them when it comes to situations like these.

Yesterday was a great gig experience for me (the gig itself) but the queueing majorly sucked.

Many of us tried to be fair and do the right thing, ie, get your position and stick to it depending on time of arrival, but a few (and amongst them some MFC'ers who I hope are feeling deeply embarrassed by the fact that everyone knows who they are, and what they are like!) decided that they should just be smart and try and jump it.

A few of us then (special mention to Aurelien, who was the "head" of trying to sort it out, and did a great job both at organising people and also at standing up to some of the MFC queue jumpers) did our best to try and make things a bit fairer by asking people to back off and stick to their spots.

Thanks to everyone who supported this and in the end it seemed to help a little. I just really wish we didn't have to resort to this, and that people would do the right thing to start with.

Besides this, once the gates were open, it was absolute mayhem. Seriously, it was really bad, people were pushing like they were crazy, just to get to the front. It was actually a bit scary to be honest, so I think that the only solution is to have seated venues to avoid this.

Someone is going to get hurt one of these days otherwise, either by accident of by someone else on purpose:roftl:.

Ah, have I mentioned that by the time people were let in, the "usual suspects" were there already?

I may develop a broken foot or so on thursday. Seems to work.

Anyway, back to the gig.

I thought Mika was on fire, and I really enjoyed it. Managed quite a good spot at the front, so the view was good (although not as good as yesterday when I was more central).

I definitely thought that Mika's performance was far better today than yesterday, just the general energy and vibe, he seemed more relaxed, just having a good time as he said himself.

Things were far more "relaxed" and spontaneous which is what I've been asking for him to do for ages, so that was really good.

Even the whole song-order and Saranayde-dress incidents were hilarious, and to me just added to the appeal of the whole thing.

And the top he used at the start instead of a jacket, for Relax!! I loved it!!!! I think he wore it at some tv or awards thing, but hadn't seen it at a gig before (correct me if I'm wrong of course). In any case I loved it and thought it suited him tons. Ah and the Tshirts, lovely!

I much prefered his clothes today to yesterday. In general, today was a lot better in the sense of the "gig", although when it came to "connection" with him, yesterday was better.

It's so funny how things change depending on how your personal experience goes! I mean, here we are all, and we all have our own different views on which show was better and why. Funny.

We had lots of funny incidents that have already been mentioned, like Mika going down to stand on the barrier and having to be helped back onstage by Icey, when he fell flat on his bum, LOL!!!

Also when Andy was dancing away and shaking his arms in the air to Yelle, and security came to tell him to sit still, haha, that was incredibly funny!

What else........I love how he's added little bits to HMDYLM where he just sings holding the notes there for a bit going "aaaah", a bit like he does in HE, it's really nice and adds to the live performance I think.

HE was great as well, I really loved it. And the trumpet guy, and the string girls were amazing!! They really add such a nice touch to it.

Also I think (and am grateful for) that Saranayde's moving seems to be a lot less than it was before, and she's standing back MUCH more,specially during the LT drumming.

Hum. Interesting. .

I'm very happy that Wendy and co got their moment with him!! Well done to Mika's mum, she's so lovely.

Aaaaaaaanyway I'll add more stuff if I remember it, but this is it so far.

More madness tomorrow!

 

I think maybe since we are in the process of becoming official that concert going / queuing etiquette should be discussed in all seriousness.

A standing ovation to whoever came up with the 'numbers' idea. It seemed to work and allowed mfcers to stroll freely and talk to people without being mindful of their position in the queue.

As for the 'they know who they are' and 'usual suspects' comments. I agree that some people take advantage of situations and true characters come through. But i think that jealousy aside, some members of the mfc have genuine excuses/reasons/needs to take priority positions and we should be aware and considerate of that. People have mentioned that the rush to be at the front was rather frightening - and those are comments from the fit and healthy of you all. Yes it is unbelieveabley irritating for those who were outside from the early hows, but hey - such is life

 

(p.s. i have pictures of you with our dog)

 

True, agree wholeheartedly with the first bolded post.

About the second, I agree that "some" have genuine reasons, and I'm all for those people having some sort of "special" treatment.

I've even said it to some MFC'ers myself, that I thought they should get some special consideration when it comes to these things, because they have genuine reasons for it.

What I cannot and will not accept, is that some people play the "disabled" or "i'm poorly" card to get to those front spots, and then they stand around/walk around for HOURS all night, looking perfectly fine, moving all right.

To me that is just a joke, and an insult to other people's integrity and good faith.

You are either disabled or you aren't. You don't just choose depending on whether it suits you.

Some are getting away with murder, just because of other people's good faith, and that just doesn't seem right.

Once we go official, I hope that these things will be ironed out because it's getting silly.

And I'm not speaking out of jealousy, I'm speaking out of fairness and decency.

And regarding the pics, yes, I saw them . I have a few as well which I will upload soon.

 

Some people do try and pull the wool over peoples eyes, its a tad pathetic.

But, lets not forget, the disability thing can be questioned anyway. Genuine illness like colds/flu, or long flights, or the weather can affect how people are feeling and some factors can be 'disabling' if on top of pre-existing conditions.

But the security at places like these are very tight, i wouldnt have thought they would let people through if not in extreme circumstance. Its the outside queue-jumping that annoys me most, and i wasnt even going to the gig.

People! They are all useless!

(God i sound like kata - save me!)

[pinkunicorn123]

and Sari etc. . .pl dont be cross with me and Sara - we had to go in with Wendi to the foyer as I had the credit card and the email and the chap on the phone had been v v v insistent that I had to take the e mail myself!!

 

we offered to go back out into the main queue once we had got her in and officially stamped and he said - oh non yr in now girls - off you go enjoy!!

 

would have been rude to leave!

 

but sorry of we offended any one xxxxx

 

What the hell is going on with all the hostility!?

I'm really sad to hear about the dramas in the queue and am even more shocked to hear MFCers were involved in the mayhem.

 

I thought people here were respectful to one another.

Jumping the queue is rude and unfair to the ones who have been waiting for hours and hours.

Kudos to Aurélien for trying to sort this issue out and standing up for what's right.

 

When I was at the gig in Amsterdam last year I went to join the queue 30 minutes before the doors opened. Without jumping the queue, without pushing or running I got to the 2nd row.

During the gig I had room to dance around, I didn't get pushed once.

Those were the days.

 

As I said, some were fit enough to wait around and walk around and wait for Mika/stuff/buses/daylight/who knows until at least (when I lost sight of them as I left) 12:30 am.

That is what I'm talking about....so if you are ok to do that, could you not perhaps throw in a bit of that time at the start, and show up and queue for a bit? Or if one is really able to move around so well, can they justify all this "disabled" malarkey?

Or at least do it for one gig, and then take a seated space (which were available both nights) and let others have the spot?

Many of us are burning precious holiday off work time to queue all day. We get cold. We may be sick. We may be taking planes and paying for hotels for extra nights to go in early.

We may have already come in December and now again!

It's our own decision to do this of course, but still, we deserve to have a rightful fair chance to get a good position inside, based on fair arrival, rather than on people abusing situations.

I mean, come on:boxed: . Hardly right in my books.

 

Even if you are not able to queue for 10 hours and have to get special treatment, there's no rule saying that you can't be let in first and then take a modest spot a bit to the side while still being able to lean on the rail. You don't have to turn up at 6 pm and march straight to front row and center several nights in a row

 

*Cue yesterday's 'if you were in a position with that opportunity' discussion*

 

I have a feeling we are all talking about, whilst not talking about, the same person.

I happen to think that that person was in the 'genuine excuse' category, maybe im biased - thats not the point.

What im heading at (and thankfully people like sariflor agreed with) was that before we charge head first into being official, glitches in the system like the etiquette of mfcers when in queues could be looked at and sorted so to set a good example and be a decent face for the fan base.

It isnt a personal attack on anyone, its a 'you all took issue with it, so lets get it sorted'

 

 

I hope people don't start doing that. It's like people parking in disabled spaces in carparks when there's nothing wrong with them - I hate that.

 

 

would never do that Babs - I take great delight in asking people whats wrong with them if they parlk in a disabled space with no badeg - - -and dont get me started on the mothers that park on the zig zags outside schoool cos poor Billy cant possibly walk two yards further - my Kids cringe if they see some one doing that - they know I will go and knock on the window - ask them if they are disabled - if they say yes - I pont them to the diabled bays in the school car park - if they say no - wel . . . . . . .let you imagine the response

 

i'll be honest here, too.

 

I was number 53. Which wasn't bad. When Danika arrived with Yasmine's book, it still wasn't finished, and I offered the day before to help her. I didn't quite know how to get to her but to climb over the barrier, so I did *and had immense trouble doing so, as I'm only 5"* so I got there, and we stuck things in. We then left the queue *I crawled under the barrier on the ramp, by the doors* and we handed it to a security guy. I then crawled back under the barrier on the ramp to get back to where I was with Danika. The queue was already really long and it was at about 5pm, so there was no way in hell i could have gone to the back and walked amongst all those people to get the my original "53" place. Even before i crawled under the ramp to hand the book in with Danika, the queue was already getting squished. It was worse when we got back, and if I had trouble getting over the barrier when there was hardly anyone there, it would have been 10x worse when the queue was rimmed with people. Aurelien was trying to get the queue in order and I do give him a thumbs up for it, I really do cos that takes guts (someone could have easily smacked him lol) but I'm not joking when i say this and others around me can defend me when they come on cos they were in the same place as me, we were SQUISHED. We all had trouble moving. I couldn't even move my arms that much. It was so restricted. If the queue wasn't so tight, I would have returned to my place with my dad I swear right up to the lord above. I, too, never meant to cause offence. It was awful timing, and I only meant to help Danika with the book

 

No No - thats what we are talking about - some people have genuine reasons which are understandable.

Its the people who get caught up in the moment and too eager that cause problems.

As good as strong wills are on the mfc, sometimes they can go overboard.

 

imetmika...video, pajamas, plane, what??? What was this first meeting like? *is lost*

 

With regards to waiting in line, the pushing, the shoving, etc, I do think seated venues are ideal. The only downside is that you can't wait in line really early to get front row. The most dedicated Mika fan might be in the back, while someone who doesn't really care might be front row. That kind of sucks. (But I would love it if MFC members could get pre-sale tickets.)

 

For those of you who don't know, I've been a Hanson fan for over 10 years, and Hanson fans are CRAZY. Fans would spend the night outside venues to get front row the next day. I just don't have the dedication to do that. I wouldn't make it.

 

All of the queue jumping and poor security practices affect my review of the gig because it affected my experience. Given my place in the queue I should have been front and centre and instead I may as well have been at home watching the DVD.

 

Not much else to report.

 

you've been discussing the queue issue, but has the issue of drunk people who are let in been discussed? there was this guy yesterday who was pushing his way all through the crowd agressing people, being absolutely disrespectful and... apparently peeing on people!!!

he should have been let in! he ruined a part of the gig for me, coz as long as he was there I wasn't calm! he scared the hell out of me! thank god rockinbabzz (among others) had the courage to say sth to him, so that the security guards finally saw there was a real problem and took him out!

 

to Brixton

If there arent any imrovements in crowd control 2moro then i will be extremely p****d off! i didnt have a good time at all during the gig! I was number 3 in the queue and managed to get squished in second row security were useless and people were selfish:mf_rosetinted:

 

ewwww.... i cant believe it happend again in brixton

i hope next time its better!!! i didnt like that venue! the worst ive ever been to...

its the only mika concert i went to that i couldt concentrate on the show... im talking about the december 2nd one lol i wasnt there yesterday =P

 

Just one more lot i think....

[pinkunicorn123]

Exactly why we're discussing it here! It was a massive part of the gig experience for many of us, and it should be mentioned.

Of course people will have a lot to say about it, because it's an important topic/issue.

How sad is it that so many people had such a crappy time because of poorly managed security and the selfishness of some?

We shouldn't cover it up or relegate it to the obscurity of some other thread.

And, unfortunately, I have no doubt that tomorrow will be the same or even worse. Just being realistic here.

Of course anyone (chosen or not) is welcome to prove me wrong:mf_rosetinted: .

 

 

 

I'm actually making it plural- people. And as I said earlier, anyone who's fit for some physical activities, is fit for others.

I totally agree- it's too much of a problem now to ignore, and the whole officiality thing should IMO look at this. And come up with a solution.

I don't think that Mika wants the fame of his gigs being a bust-up-punch-fest does he? .

 

 

 

Yes, and others including myself managed to move around by forcing people who had higher numbers than us to move back, so we could get into our rightful place.

I was quite upset that you queued all day for Babs and she was robbed of the spot.

 

 

 

It's all to do with the same.

 

 

 

We all know that you are a "legal" person Bab. Which is one of the reasons why it upsets me that ppl like you miss out, and other cheeky ones get stuff.

 

 

 

Well said.

 

 

 

OMG, I have lost my anonimity? LOL

 

 

 

Get me one?

 

 

 

 

Oi, you left me out! I'm older than Saraloo

 

Okay, so now everyone agrees that it is a problem that needs addressing - lets address it.

What are we/you going to do about it?

I was impressed with the organisation of the number system, it works rather well if not for the few who chose to negate it, but we can do more than that.

All suggestions welcome, because a dressing down and a 'behave next time' will not cover it. People lead by example. You saw how quickly the queue moved forward after mika's arrival, so it takes just one to cause problems.

Since its usually just mfcers in prime positions at the front of the queue, we have that capability to sent down some ground rules.

 

I understand, I didn't know that was Babs spot. I saw Babs when she came over and if I'da known I'd have let her in. I know it's no excuse. Like I said, I only went to help Danika finish the giftbook for Yasmine and when we got it delivered to a sec guy I got back in the queue with Danika and the front was squashed. I'm being so honest in what I am saying here, and by this time the queue was huge. I couldn't climb over the barrier *i could barely do it the first time when hardly anyone was there as I am so short* because there was just too many people. Like i said in a previous post, Aurelien was trying to get the queue in order again and seriously, kudos to him. When he called "number 7" NO-ONE answered - at least I didn't hear anything. Now, I did not shout out "THAT'S ME". I was with others who shall remain nameless who said I should stay. I looked at them all confused on what to do and I DID contemplate about whether to go over the barrier - HONEST TO GOD, but there really was no room. Kata said she had no problem going backwards and forwards to and from her spot but i can honestly say I don't know how. I just saw her sitting on the fence and assume that's how she got around.

 

again, i'm so sorry that i've annoyed a fair few people - i never meant to.

 

Caz don't worry - you have explained yourself and all is well.

Provided that people are civil and have a genuine reason, then thats okay.

We are talking about those who tried to create false excuses or just simply push in.

 

honest to God i only went to help Danika and then the queue's got really busy and everyone down the front got squashed. It's not like I was some crazy fan pushing all the way to get to the front screaming my lungs out and on the brink of hyperventilating or anything. i never MEANT to go in front, and I can't express how sorry I am.

 

Well done for this Pink, I honestly don't know how we can do it, but agree that it needs to be done.

I'll try and think!!

 

 

 

I know what happenned, and that others said you should stay and that. That's why I said that I know you didn't do anything in bad faith.

Besides the Babs point, what bothers me about the whole thing, is that I had number 21 because I'd been there since early morning. I took the day off work for this, and was getting over a cold.

I have hardly any hols left, so I chose to use it for this. I also have a very busy life with no time for anything, so my sacrifice was to go early so I could get a good spot....but it all seems pointless when others who came many hours later end up going in earlier.

Also when it comes to moving in the queue when it was so packed, my point about it is that it was difficult, I agree, and for me to go into my spot it actually required me to confront a few people and ask them to move aside so I could get to where I needed to be.

One girl even tried to claim that she was number 22 when she was more like 100, and had scribbled the fake number in her hand. Em was the right nr 22.

It's probably easier to go back in the queue than towards the front though, so I'm assuming that anyone who really wanted to move, could have, just likd I did.

Basically I'm trying to point out that it was an uncomfortable situation, I do not enjoy having to confront people like that when I'm there to have a good time, but it was the only way to do it.

I don't enjoy getting a reputation of rocking the boat just because I'm trying to do the right thing or claim my right, and I certainly prefer it when I just get on with everyone.

It just sometimes doesn't happen, and what I'm trying to say is that perhaps one could be a bit more assertive and then they could move down the queue. I'm quite sure that people are more than happy to see someone move back!

That is what I'm trying to say. I'm not attacking you as such, and as I said to someone, knowing how much the gig meant to you I may have even offered my spot if I had been in a better position; it's just about how things are done, etc.

 

Thing is... what can we do about it?

As long as people are selfish and decide not to play according to the rules, nothing can be done but maybe beating them to death. Trouble is we cant kill people anymore if we want to become official (I AM JOKING: please spare me incendiary PM's, thanks a lot )

 

Thank you for opening that thread.

 

It's an important discussion that involves not just this gig, but future gigs aswell.

 

There, thats the main bit of it - sorry if i got the order a bit wrong and that you cant see what people are quoting when they reply

[carrinevie]

well done pinky!!!!

[sariflor]

well done pinky!!!!

 

 

yes, I second that!

I wasn't not playing the game, just got busy, lol!!

[pinkunicorn123]

No worries.

So.

What are we going to do about it?

Plan of action:

[elanorelle]

I remember that Sariflor (yes, her, again ) had told me that it was everyone for himself during Mika gigs and that good manners seemed to suddenly vanish.

I must say I didn't believe her at first, and was very saddened when I found out how right she was.

 

I really can't think of any serious solution to this all queue-jumping issue tho.

It's very touchy cause it also involves friendship between MFCers, and particular circumstances. If your best MFC-friend is stuck at work until 6PM for example, it's quite hard to tell that person to stay at the back. But, it is what has to be done I'm afraid. Cause it's just not fair for the rest of the people to let people front.

 

EDIT

I'm against seated venues cause they usually sell the best spots at a higher price and that would cause segregation based on the money you can spend.

 

not necessarily! I have been to seated venues where all the prices are the the same

[carrinevie]

I like the idea of seats!!!

[daisylou]

May I ask how come those feel the need to pick on others but then don't have the guts to say the name of the person concerned.

Am I wrong in thinking the "special" people are Me, my husband,Vicky-MIKAFISH and Marc-Holy Johnny?

First Sariflor when did you become my private physician?

Do you actually know what my illness is? Have you actually asked me personally?

What is your problem with me?

I AM DISABLED!!!! DO YOU REALLY THINK I WANT TO BE ILL?

Carrie....YES!..I own a disability badge for parking! I know you didn't mean me when you posted you didn't approve of people parking in the wrong places but just so you are aware.

I DO NOT HAVE TO ANSWER TO ANY OF YOU!.....My doctor knows I am ill,and have been for 10 years! How discriminating are you that you question someone's illness? If I had a heart condition I could have been at the front then how would you know I was ill....HUH?

YOU CANNOT MAKE ASSUMPTIONS ON THINGS YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT! GET FACTS BEFORE YOU SLAG OFF OTHERS!!!!!!

The reason we were at the front is because we took it upon OURSELVES to prebook and arrange it! It had nothing to do with MIKA,the band,or the MFC!!

Also others who were not even there have absolutely no reason to question where I was at the gig as you are just joining the bandwagon on hearsay.

Would you still feel the same way if it was someone NOT from the MFC....you couldn't say anything then could you?

I have been a member on this forum for a long time now and DO NOT COME ON HERE TO BE PICKED ON OR SLAGGED OFF! I COME HERE TO TALK ABOUT MIKA!

[carrinevie]

Carrie....YES!..I own a disability badge for parking! I know you didn't mean me when you posted you didn't approve of people parking in the wrong places but just so you are aware.!

 

Good - you have a BB you park in a BB space -I was refrring to the mad mothers at school or white van men at the supermarket who abuse the dd bays or park on zigzags - my father has a BB - I feel bad if I have taken him somewhere & then if he cant get back to the car - as he has heart condition but looks too healthy for his own good - and I have to go and get it and drive back for him - I am always ready to apologise - or make him walk back to the car

 

well it s a good way to get my inheritance !!

(dad am joking!!)

[sariflor]

May I ask how come those feel the need to pick on others but then don't have the guts to say the name of the person concerned.

Am I wrong in thinking the "special" people are Me, my husband,Vicky-MIKAFISH and Marc-Holy Johnny?

First Sariflor when did you become my private physician?

Do you actually know what my illness is? Have you actually asked me personally?

What is your problem with me?

I AM DISABLED!!!! DO YOU REALLY THINK I WANT TO BE ILL?

Carrie....YES!..I own a disability badge for parking! I know you didn't mean me when you posted you didn't approve of people parking in the wrong places but just so you are aware.

I DO NOT HAVE TO ANSWER TO ANY OF YOU!.....My doctor knows I am ill,and have been for 10 years! How discriminating are you that you question someone's illness? If I had a heart condition I could have been at the front then how would you know I was ill....HUH?

YOU CANNOT MAKE ASSUMPTIONS ON THINGS YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT! GET FACTS BEFORE YOU SLAG OFF OTHERS!!!!!!

The reason we were at the front is because we took it upon OURSELVES to prebook and arrange it! It had nothing to do with MIKA,the band,or the MFC!!

Also others who were not even there have absolutely no reason to question where I was at the gig as you are just joining the bandwagon on hearsay.

Would you still feel the same way if it was someone NOT from the MFC....you couldn't say anything then could you?

I have been a member on this forum for a long time now and DO NOT COME ON HERE TO BE PICKED ON OR SLAGGED OFF! I COME HERE TO TALK ABOUT MIKA!

 

 

I don't have much time to elaborate now but I will answer, as you have directly mentioned me.

Have you read my posts?

I have not questioned your or anyone's disability. What I have questioned (and will continue to challenge) is that if someone (you in this case, as you have already named yourself as one of the people entering first based on that reason) has a problem that doesn't allow them to do certain things, then they automatically are (in theory) also unable to do others.

If one can't stand for a couple of hours to queue, they can't stand for a few hours at a gig, and then after it waiting for the artist, then waiting for the bus, etc, etc...

And in high heels? Wouldn't trainers be much more comfortable?

Also, I seem to remember that you went to both gigs. Perhaps a bit of a rest after the first one would have made you feel better for the second?

It's about consistency to me.

And if you ask me, what I personally would have done in that situation, would probably be to take a slightly less "privileged" spot, a bit to the side and let others take the good one, or even take a seat the second day.

In any case, I said what I had to say, so you can re-read my posts because I don't have the time now to re-write everything.

I don't quite get why you make this MFC remark- I would have made exactly the same comments I have if things were done by non-mfc members. It's not about who the people are, it's about their actions.

Personally, I think you're overdramatising with your post. Everyone comes here to talk about mika or to talk to new friends, but sadly these things happen and people will bring them up and talk about them.

Oh! And probably no need to shout either..

[pinkunicorn123]

Good - you have a BB you park in a BB space -I was refrring to the mad mothers at school or white van men at the supermarket who abuse the dd bays or park on zigzags - my father has a BB - I feel bad if I have taken him somewhere & then if he cant get back to the car - as he has heart condition but looks too healthy for his own good - and I have to go and get it and drive back for him - I am always ready to apologise - or make him walk back to the car

 

well it s a good way to get my inheritance !!

(dad am joking!!)

 

I hate this.

My mother runs a childminding business and has done for 14yrs.

On one of our school runs, we have to stop off at a sports centre where they have a preschool group.

The car park is usually empty until school run times.

There are 6 spaces for diasabled people.

2 of the parents hold badges - they can rarely ever park there.

[pinkunicorn123]

To Sari and Daisy,

I hope i havent become a catalyst here.

I am aware there are issues here; this thread was not directed at them at all it was in general terms, there were alot of people being inappropriate.

I suppose it does not help that i didn't include all quotes from the Brixton thread or linked in so people could see what others were replying to in those quotes, so it has made some comments come across slightly differently than intially intended.

Sorry!

[Mikafish]

Okay, emotions are runing high and I really want to shout and scream, but I'm not going to, I'm going to try to explain and hope that people can see things for our (I'm speaking as a disabled person) point of view.

 

 

If one can't stand for a couple of hours to queue, they can't stand for a few hours at a gig, and then after it waiting for the artist, then waiting for the bus, etc, etc...

And in high heels? Wouldn't trainers be much more comfortable?

 

I think you've summed up the problem perfectly. I could stand for a couple of hours in the queue OR I could stand at the gig. I can't do both! Neither can Daisy. On Monday Daisy did not wait for Mika because she was so exausted and in pain. he shoes when with her costume and as vain as that sounds I can think of many women (myself included!) that will were shoes that hurt in order to look good! Add to that the fact that she took them off when she got in.

 

And if you ask me, what I personally would have done in that situation, would probably be to take a slightly less "privileged" spot, a bit to the side and let others take the good one, or even take a seat the second day.[/color]

 

This I'm afraid you have to blame totally on me. Daisy and I attended the gigs together as friends and naturally wanted to stand together. Unfortunatly due to my hearing (as I explained in the Hammersmith thread) frount and centre is really my only option if I actually want to hear Mika clearly o in the case of when he's just speaking, hear him at all.

 

Personally, I think you're overdramatising with your post. Everyone comes here to talk about mika or to talk to new friends, but sadly these things happen and people will bring them up and talk about them.

 

I think that you're comments have come across as very hurtful, not just to Daisy. Clearly she is upset and when upset people react, that's all. Can we all have a little more understanding?

 

Was there the need to start making snide comments and being rude about this before knowing all the facts.

 

You have every right to express your opinion, I won't try to stop you but a little though into how that's done could dissolve alot of hurt, tention and misunderstanding.

[sariflor]

Okay, emotions are runing high and I really want to shout and scream, but I'm not going to, I'm going to try to explain and hope that people can see things for our (I'm speaking as a disabled person) point of view.

 

I think you've summed up the problem perfectly. I could stand for a couple of hours in the queue OR I could stand at the gig. I can't do both! Neither can Daisy. On Monday Daisy did not wait for Mika because she was so exausted and in pain. he shoes when with her costume and as vain as that sounds I can think of many women (myself included!) that will were shoes that hurt in order to look good! Add to that the fact that she took them off when she got in.

 

This I'm afraid you have to blame totally on me. Daisy and I attended the gigs together as friends and naturally wanted to stand together. Unfortunatly due to my hearing (as I explained in the Hammersmith thread) frount and centre is really my only option if I actually want to hear Mika clearly o in the case of when he's just speaking, hear him at all.

 

I think that you're comments have come across as very hurtful, not just to Daisy. Clearly she is upset and when upset people react, that's all. Can we all have a little more understanding?

 

Was there the need to start making snide comments and being rude about this before knowing all the facts.

 

You have every right to express your opinion, I won't try to stop you but a little though into how that's done could dissolve alot of hurt, tention and misunderstanding.

 

Ok, I keep saying this tonight, but am in a rush and have already posted more than I had intended, so because I don't know how well constructed it will come out, I'll try to just stick to answering to the bolded comments.

I don't think that it's necessary for me to say how I obviously feel bad for anyone who has a disability, as I can imagine how hard life can be. This was never the point of any comments made here, it's just about how things are managed, about some people's actions, and how they affect others.

-I think that a few of us feel like shouting and screaming.

-you say that you and Daisy can stand for a couple of hours either at a queue or at a gig.

Why then go to 2 gigs in a row, stand throughout, and then stand for another few hours outside waiting for him?

If the choice really needs to be made, how about not standing for one of the gigs, or queuing, or not staying afterwards for hours?

Of course you guys have the right to do what you like (as in how many hours you decide to stand for), but then you should IMO be prepared to accept people's criticism for being allowed "special" treatment when it comes to going in and taking the best spots in the house.

As for the shoes, I fall into the category of women who decide not to wear the pretty heels if their feet or legs hurt.

I'm afraid that I can't put myself in anyone's shoes if they decide to do that and then want sympathy. I think that if one makes that choice, it's up to them to "suffer" the consequences.

-About attending the gig as friends and standing together,etc...I have attended these gigs with many friends, and have not had the chance to stand together many times due to all these things that have been going on.

That is how things go.

Again, I think that it's down to one wanting to be "nice" about things or not.

-About my/our comments being hurtful to Daisy and/or you: Have any of you actually also stopped to think how WE have felt about all this?

-I speak for myself when I say with my hand on my heart that I haven't made any snidey comments or been rude. I've only expressed my opinions (and feelings) on this whole issue, which has upset me and many others.

And I don't think that any others who have posted have been rude or snidey either; people are just very mad at the whole situation.

I think that what you guys also need to think is that, even if you have genuine reasons to do these things, it may be a bit much to do it a few nights in a row so that others don't get their chance. I get the feeling that you're getting upset becuase people are not seeing your side, yet you're not trying to see things from the other side: the fan who waited outside for 12 hours, in the cold, with stress, etc, etc, and then can't get a good position.

Anyway I really hvae to go now, as I have to get up early in order to go and queue again for a gig where I don't know what position I will get, as it will possibly not depend on at what time I get there.

I still have faith though so I will go.

Good night.

[pinkunicorn123]

As much as i think you all need to talk this over - because the conflict is notable - I would also like to remind you that this thread is not restricted to the thoughts and the bullying that has come about related to disablity and some peoples uses of that term at concerts.

It is to find a solution to the other and more widespread problems in the main queue as well as the general attitude and lack of pleasantries that are visible and present by mfcers during gigs.

So please be careful that this topic does not take over the main bulk of the thread as it is upsetting for all parties - outsiders included.

[Mikafish]

Okay! New Topic!

 

The numbers thing, is that really working? I haven't experienced it myslef but I noticed a post by an MFCer that wasn't know to people that semed to be ignored.

 

Can this kind of thing really be run by fans or would it be more appropraite to try to encourage venues to do this?

 

What if other people in the queue don't agree with the idea? (I'm just palying devils advocate here)

[pinkunicorn123]

It works to an extent.

I would say from what i saw yesterday, with one or two exceptions - people were within 10 or so of their actual places, but because queues are around 3-4 people wide, it can be quite difficult to make sure it is kept in order - but people did try.

I think it is a good idea to start off with.

But we need something in addition to that.

People that will help organise numbering and orders as well as another approach to the system because you cant expect everyone to take a number - especially those who are not mfcers.

[dcdeb]

I have not questioned your or anyone's disability. What I have questioned (and will continue to challenge) is that if someone (you in this case, as you have already named yourself as one of the people entering first based on that reason) has a problem that doesn't allow them to do certain things, then they automatically are (in theory) also unable to do others.

If one can't stand for a couple of hours to queue, they can't stand for a few hours at a gig, and then after it waiting for the artist, then waiting for the bus, etc, etc...

 

I think you've summed up the problem perfectly. I could stand for a couple of hours in the queue OR I could stand at the gig. I can't do both! Neither can Daisy. On Monday Daisy did not wait for Mika because she was so exausted and in pain. he shoes when with her costume and as vain as that sounds I can think of many women (myself included!) that will were shoes that hurt in order to look good! Add to that the fact that she took them off when she got in.

 

There's a lot that's been said in this thread and the other, but I don't

want to multiquote forever. I'm just going to use these

two quotes as I see them as the perfect point/counterpoint to

at least this part of the queue debate. (Obviously, the pushing/shoving

and line-jumping are related, but different issues.)

 

Sara says if you're disabled you're disabled, period. Mikafish points

out that that's not entirely true, and explains why.

 

I'm no doctor, but I do have family and friends who have "invisible"

disabilities. I'm also the author of a guidebook geared to people who

have disabilities, so I have done a fair amount of research into this

subject.

 

There are a number of disabilities which

can in fact cause a person to be unable to stand for long periods of

time, to tire easily, a whole variety of symptoms that are not readily

apparent to the casual observer. So while waiting in a long queue

for hours is not do-able, standing for an hour at a concert, if you've

conserved your energy might be. There's fibromyalgia

and chronic fatigue syndrome

(I think you call it ME or Myalgic Encephalomyelitis in the UK?), for

example. My SIL is recovering from breast

cancer. She looks fairly healthy... now. Does that mean she is not ill?

No. But she wouldn't be able to stand for hours on end.

 

Why be so quick to judge whether someone is truly ill or just

"faking?"

 

I'm wondering what is underlying the resentment that seems to fuel

these sorts of debates, not just here, but also in real life, where people

seem to not be able to understand that someone is not well, just

because they can't see it.

 

I understand that there might be some envy, and maybe some

skepticism, when you see someone who looks healthy walk into a

desirable position in a concert hall, or even get a better space

in a parking lot.

 

But I would hope that in general people are sympathetic and

understanding and would give a person the benefit of the doubt.

 

And I really hope that tempers calm down here now, and that

we can move on to other topics that are far more worthy. There's no

reason for people to SHOUT

or get defensive or snarky...

 

At the end of the day, we all DO come here to talk about Mika, not

to pass judgements on each other.

 

dcdeb