My Videos...

[Christine]

He seemed chilled with it, so I took that as him not really minding. If he had turned around and said he didn't really like it I'd stop filming because I completely understand that, but he seemed okay with it. He didn't outrightly say 'you have permission to film my shows yadda yadda yadda' but he smiled and we had the little chat, etc.

 

Mika has seen us all with cameras in our hands for years so I think it goes without saying that he doesn't mind the filming. But permission to film and permission to use it in any way are different things.

 

You could argue that once Mika gives implied permission for us to film he has to live with the consequences of the footage being in our possession where we can and do upload it to the internet. But Morecube is making that same argument that once you uploaded it to YouTube and allowed embedding you gave permission to the public to use it on their websites. Because that's what people do with the embed feature on YouTube. That's what it's there for.

[Jazzy]

Mika has seen us all with cameras in our hands for years so I think it goes without saying that he doesn't mind the filming. But permission to film and permission to use it in any way are different things.

 

You could argue that once Mika gives implied permission for us to film he has to live with the consequences of the footage being in our possession where we can and do upload it to the internet. But Morecube is making that same argument that once you uploaded it to YouTube and allowed embedding you gave permission to the public to use it on their websites. Because that's what people do with the embed feature on YouTube. That's what it's there for.

 

Oh I know I can't officially use it, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying that he's all right with it, so it's not like I'm doing it when he's told me not to. It's barely the point but Morecube was bringing it up anyway, because he's really struggling to find a logical and relevant point.

 

Point is, I disabled embedding, but they were still up there, dunno how or why, but I asked for them to be removed and then he got cocky and rude. I don't take cocky or rude from anybody.

[Christine]

Point is, I disabled embedding, but they were still up there, dunno how or why, but I asked for them to be removed and then he got cocky and rude. I don't take cocky or rude from anybody.

 

Me either.

 

I think perhaps the video was cached on your computer so it continued to play after it had been disabled. This has happened to A. Clay a few times when she catches vlogs that are later turned private. The rest of us can't access the private video but she can still play it. I also found this when YouTube disabled my videos from the secret gig but I could still watch them on a site that had embedded them.

[Jazzy]

Me either.

 

I think perhaps the video was cached on your computer so it continued to play after it had been disabled. This has happened to A. Clay a few times when she catches vlogs that are later turned private. The rest of us can't access the private video but she can still play it. I also found this when YouTube disabled my videos from the secret gig but I could still watch them on a site that had embedded them.

 

I did ctrl & F5 a bunch of times, and my history cookies, temporary files etc etc clear out at the end of each day, so I tried several times before I actually asked for them to be taken down, but either way, the way he behaved was unnacceptable. But whatever, what goes around comes around, and he'll get his comeuppance, whether it's now or in 20 years time.

[Christine]

I did ctrl & F5 a bunch of times, and my history cookies, temporary files etc etc clear out at the end of each day, so I tried several times before I actually asked for them to be taken down, but either way, the way he behaved was unnacceptable.

 

As I mentioned earlier in the thread I don't quite understand why a request to remove the videos wouldn't be respected. We're aware that there are posts on MFC that link to material that could potentially be violating someone's copyright but we will remove material and links if it is requested.

 

We had an incident where someone's personal photos were cropping up on MFC and I felt the same as Morecube - that if she didn't want them in the public domain she shouldn't have posted them in public. But that was just my personal opinion. As a site owner or manager I think you have a responsibility to honour these types of requests. Because as you said, what goes around comes around.

[Jazzy]

As I mentioned earlier in the thread I don't quite understand why a request to remove the videos wouldn't be respected. We're aware that there are posts on MFC that link to material that could potentially be violating someone's copyright but we will remove material and links if it is requested.

 

We had an incident where someone's personal photos were cropping up on MFC and I felt the same as Morecube - that if she didn't want them in the public domain she shouldn't have posted them in public. But that was just my personal opinion. As a site owner or manager I think you have a responsibility to honour these types of requests. Because as you said, what goes around comes around.

 

Yeah I don't mind if people want to link on forums etc etc, but if they're putting them on their front page then I think common courtesy would be to ask and credit. I'd have been fine with it if he had. But his attitude was ridiculous and it blew the whole thing up. Still, my videos are gonna go up on vimeo, and they'll be password protected so only those with the password will be able to view them, and more importantly, no one will be able to download them and reupload them themselves. It's a shame I've got to do this, but at least the MFCers will be able to watch and enjoy the videos, which is what I'd like.

[sariflor]

Yeah I don't mind if people want to link on forums etc etc, but if they're putting them on their front page then I think common courtesy would be to ask and credit. I'd have been fine with it if he had. But his attitude was ridiculous and it blew the whole thing up. Still, my videos are gonna go up on vimeo, and they'll be password protected so only those with the password will be able to view them, and more importantly, no one will be able to download them and reupload them themselves. It's a shame I've got to do this, but at least the MFCers will be able to watch and enjoy the videos, which is what I'd like.

Whereas I agreee that he should remove them if you asked, I don't get you saying that he's not crediting you. That's the whole point of embedding. You are redirected to the actual YT page.

Vimeo is a nice option, but make no mistake there, Jazzy: any vid that you put out there can be downloaded. It's only marginally more protected, and if some MFC'ers are going to have passwords, it's only a matter of time until it comes out. Way too much hassle just for some gig footage, which is all over the internet already anyway filmed by others, IMO.

Also, the more people see the vids, the better. I have been following Mika around filming his every move for 3 years and lost count of the amount of times that people from all sorts of places have commented saying thanks for sharing, never thought he'd be this good, can't wait to go to his show.

Personally for me, this kind of promotion is more valuable than any petty claim I could make of 'ownership' over potentially 'stolen' footage, etc. But hey, that's me.

[Jazzy]

Whereas I agreee that he should remove them if you asked, I don't get you saying that he's not crediting you. That's the whole point of embedding. You are redirected to the actual YT page.

Vimeo is a nice option, but make no mistake there, Jazzy: any vid that you put out there can be downloaded. It's only marginally more protected, and if some MFC'ers are going to have passwords, it's only a matter of time until it comes out. Way too much hassle just for some gig footage, which is all over the internet already anyway filmed by others, IMO.

Also, the more people see the vids, the better. I have been following Mika around filming his every move for 3 years and lost count of the amount of times that people from all sorts of places have commented saying thanks for sharing, never thought he'd be this good, can't wait to go to his show.

Personally for me, this kind of promotion is more valuable than any petty claim I could make of 'ownership' over potentially 'stolen' footage, etc. But hey, that's me.

 

I know they can be downloaded from Vimeo but I'm not going to be giving the password out to just anyone.

 

It's his whole attitude that made this situation worse, IMO. But I'm not really up for harping on about it, my videos are down and he can't download them himself.

 

Perhaps I'm just old fashioned and appreciate manners, but whatever.

[willywonka]

All the ones from this tour so far have been deleted.

 

Thank Morecube for this, firstly for posting them without my permission or crediting me, then for refusing to remove them, and then for telling me he would download them and upload them himself.

 

 

They're all gone now.

 

I still have them myself. I'm considering opening a private account so only friends can view the videos, in which case if you want to see them you'd have become my friend on youtube and pm on here so I know who exactly I will be accepting on youtube.

 

I'm so angry right now, but seeing as a whole bunch have been uploaded in the last few days and you guys might still be watching them, I thought I'd better let you know.

 

 

EDIT: OH and some have been uploaded to MS for points as well. IUAFGARHGUGHGNANAJF

 

I know they can be downloaded from Vimeo but I'm not going to be giving the password out to just anyone.

 

It's his whole attitude that made this situation worse, IMO. But I'm not really up for harping on about it, my videos are down and he can't download them himself.

 

Perhaps I'm just old fashioned and appreciate manners, but whatever.

 

Oh, Jazzy, your fab vids...

 

I was a fan of your YT account ever since i subscribed it...

 

Please include me whenever and wherever you put them...

[Soaring Simpson]

Whereas I agreee that he should remove them if you asked, I don't get you saying that he's not crediting you. That's the whole point of embedding. You are redirected to the actual YT page.

Vimeo is a nice option, but make no mistake there, Jazzy: any vid that you put out there can be downloaded. It's only marginally more protected, and if some MFC'ers are going to have passwords, it's only a matter of time until it comes out. Way too much hassle just for some gig footage, which is all over the internet already anyway filmed by others, IMO.

Also, the more people see the vids, the better. I have been following Mika around filming his every move for 3 years and lost count of the amount of times that people from all sorts of places have commented saying thanks for sharing, never thought he'd be this good, can't wait to go to his show.

Personally for me, this kind of promotion is more valuable than any petty claim I could make of 'ownership' over potentially 'stolen' footage, etc. But hey, that's me.

 

I agree-about removing if asked, about embedding, about the eventual leak from vimeo, and about the probable reason (IMO) that record companies are fairly relaxed about gig videos on youtube, unless they're of songs that have not yet been released

 

I've really enjoyed your videos over the years, Sariflor and Christine, and more recently Tiibet.... (sorry I can't name everybody) and look forward to seeing yours too Jazzy- especially Newcastle- one way or another. I hope this gets sorted out without people trying to be good to other MFCers and fans getting hurt and feeling unvalued.

 

I think it's slightly ironic that we have had an anti-watermarking thread for ages, but are increasingly defacing our own pictures because of the magic numbers, though I still think that was a sweet idea

 

Edit- I've just seen the post about not giving the link to the private account to just any MFCer- I'm sorry, but I think that would nearly finish off any sense of community on the MFC. I really hate to say this- but it might be better not to share them at all.

[guylainem123]

perhaps jazzy would have felt differently if, because it is on his front page, he would have said "do you mind if..." i think it's the way it was handled that she didn't like. sometimes curtesy should be above copyrights.

 

[Jazzy]

Oh, Jazzy, your fab vids...

 

I was a fan of your YT account ever since i subscribed it...

 

Please include me whenever and wherever you put them...

 

Will do, I'll sort it all out at some point after the Bristol gig. Too much to be dealing with right now. They'll be up somewhere eventually and people who can be trusted will get passwords.

[Jazzy]

perhaps jazzy would have felt differently if, because it is on his front page, he would have said "do you mind if..." i think it's the way it was handled that she didn't like. i think sometimes curtesy should be above copyrights.

 

 

EXACTLY my point. I've lost count of the amount of times I've said it, but some people just aren't understanding it.

 

There's no RULE saying that you should say please and thank you to people, or that if someone's walking behind you and you go through a door, you hold it open for them as well. If the door gets slammed in your face, you get p*ssed off. It's not breaking the law, it's just about behaving in a civil manner.

[Christine]

Perhaps I'm just old fashioned and appreciate manners, but whatever.

 

I think just about everyone here sees your point in that respect and I can understand your initial reaction of pulling the videos when he threatened to re-upload. But I believe you're sort of cutting off yours/Mika's/Mika's fans noses to spite someone else's face if you continue restricting them.

 

I've got over 300,000 views on my videos and my main motivation for uploading is to just share them with other fans, especially because I like watching high quality videos myself. I didn't film any of these videos (my gig videos are the only ones that have been disabled for copyright infringement ironically ) so I'm naturally not as possessive as someone who has gone to the trouble of recording at a concert...but I was thrilled when Perez embedded my gig videos and they got a bazillion views in a couple of hours. And no, he certainly did not give me credit on his site.

[guylainem123]

EXACTLY my point. I've lost count of the amount of times I've said it, but some people just aren't understanding it.

 

There's no RULE saying that you should say please and thank you to people, or that if someone's walking behind you and you go through a door, you hold it open for them as well. If the door gets slammed in your face, you get p*ssed off. It's not breaking the law, it's just about behaving in a civil manner.

 

but i guess, like in real life, you can't expect people to hold the door opened for you

[guylainem123]

I think just about everyone here sees your point in that respect and I can understand your initial reaction of pulling the videos when he threatened to re-upload. But I believe you're sort of cutting off yours/Mika's/Mika's fans noses to spite someone else's face if you continue restricting them.

 

I've got over 300,000 views on my videos and my main motivation for uploading is to just share them with other fans, especially because I like watching high quality videos myself. I didn't film any of these videos (my gig videos are the only ones that have been disabled for copyright infringement ironically ) so I'm naturally not as possessive as someone who has gone to the trouble of recording at a concert...but I was thrilled when Perez embedded my gig videos and they got a bazillion views in a couple of hours. And no, he certainly did not give me credit on his site.

 

you were thrilled? i thought i remembered a few swear words initially

[Jazzy]

but i guess, like in real life, you can't expect people to hold the door opened for you

 

But neither do you expect it to be slammed in your face. Swings and roundabouts really.

 

 

We could talk about this until the cows come home, but all this thread was originally was an explanation as to why my videos had been pulled. I'll sort something out eventually, because I love sharing them with other fans, but when something like this happens, it leaves a bitter taste in your mouth. Usually I get home, get straight on youtube and let my videos upload overnight so people will be able to watch them ASAP. Now I've got little to no inclination to be prompt with them. They'll be up eventually, but I'm in no hurry.

[Christine]

you were thrilled? i thought i remembered a few swear words initially

 

I was swearing when they removed them from YouTube. Not because Perez posted them on his site.

 

I had a good moan to Perez about it and he answered me.

[guylainem123]

I was swearing when they removed them from YouTube. Not because Perez posted them on his site.

 

I had a good moan to Perez about it and he answered me.

 

weren't you on the plane or something when you found out?

 

was he polite?

[Blue Sky]

I was thrilled when Perez embedded my gig videos and they got a bazillion views in a couple of hours. And no, he certainly did not give me credit on his site.

 

Likewise, my most popular ever Mika gig video on YT was the duet with Utada Hikaru in Tokyo last November, and Perez embedded it on his site but did not give me any credit for filming it. I was so pleased it appeared, it didn't matter to me.

 

I mean, I was the only person who uploaded it straight after the concert...a couple of other versions appeared a couple of days later. So it is not like he had a choice of someone else's video to use:aah:

 

And as I mentioned before, the foreign language sites still take all the vids and use them anyway. The act of uploading is the same as releasing the videos to the public, no matter what site they are on. You cannot control who gives the password/files to anyone.

[sariflor]

EXACTLY my point. I've lost count of the amount of times I've said it, but some people just aren't understanding it.

 

There's no RULE saying that you should say please and thank you to people, or that if someone's walking behind you and you go through a door, you hold it open for them as well. If the door gets slammed in your face, you get p*ssed off. It's not breaking the law, it's just about behaving in a civil manner.

Oh, I understand. I just happen to have a different perspective on it. As I also said a few times, I think that it's not on to take other people's material and pass it as your own, but that is not what Morecube did. He embedded the vid, which you had implicitly given your agreement to by clicking the 'allow embedding' option on your videos. Once someone clicks the video, they go to your video (on your channel). I am a firm believer in courtesy and manners myself, but come on, realistically speaking, he didn't say that these were his, and I personally don't find it bad that he didn't 'mention' you. Your name appears on the channel; it's obvious that it's yours. This is very different to taking others' footage as their own.

How many of us have linked (effectively embedding) videos on our myspace profiles for ex, and ever 'credited' the source?? Or when linking on Facebook? It's the same principle.

 

[Jazzy]

Oh, I understand. I just happen to have a different perspective on it. As I also said a few times, I think that it's not on to take other people's material and pass it as your own, but that is not what Morecube did. He embedded the vid, which you had implicitly given your agreement to by clicking the 'allow embedding' option on your videos. Once someone clicks the video, they go to your video (on your channel). I am a firm believer in courtesy and manners myself, but come on, realistically speaking, he didn't say that these were his, and I personally don't find it bad that he didn't 'mention' you. Your name appears on the channel; it's obvious that it's yours. This is very different to taking others' footage as their own.

How many of us have linked (effectively embedding) videos on our myspace profiles for ex, and ever 'credited' the source?? Or when linking on Facebook? It's the same principle.

 

 

*sigh* I see where you're coming from, but at the same time, I have also said a million and one times that I disabled embedding on them, but they were still playing.

[sariflor]

I agree-about removing if asked, about embedding, about the eventual leak from vimeo, and about the probable reason (IMO) that record companies are fairly relaxed about gig videos on youtube, unless they're of songs that have not yet been released

 

I've really enjoyed your videos over the years, Sariflor and Christine, and more recently Tiibet.... (sorry I can't name everybody) and look forward to seeing yours too Jazzy- especially Newcastle- one way or another. I hope this gets sorted out without people trying to be good to other MFCers and fans getting hurt and feeling unvalued.

 

I think it's slightly ironic that we have had an anti-watermarking thread for ages, but are increasingly defacing our own pictures because of the magic numbers, though I still think that was a sweet idea

 

Edit- I've just seen the post about not giving the link to the private account to just any MFCer- I'm sorry, but I think that would nearly finish off any sense of community on the MFC. I really hate to say this- but it might be better not to share them at all.

I really have to agree on your points re the watermark removal and posting/sharing/downloading of pics, and then getting up in arms about our own material. Hypocritical much?

I also think that the selective sharing of gig videos may prove very tricky in reality, but hey, I guess that we shall see how it goes.

I'll be watching with interest.

[Christine]

*sigh* I see where you're coming from, but at the same time, I have also said a million and one times that I disabled embedding on them, but they were still playing.

 

I guess some of us are having trouble understanding why you wanted to disable the embedding and not have them appear on other sites in the first place. i.e. why you would ask Morecube to take them down, which is what led to your unpleasant exchange with him. The expectation that site owners will explicitly credit the YouTube user on their page is not realistic and YouTube has accounted for this by building in links and other features in the embedded videos to let the viewer know that the source of the video is not the website they're on, but a user on YouTube.

 

It is absolutely your prerogative to not have your videos embedded on other sites but for some of us, we just want our videos to be viewed by as many people as possible so we're just explaining our point of view. It's great advertising for Mika and I want to do whatever I can to get people to fall in love with him too.

 

If a couple of people with questionable ethics benefit in the process I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. There are 300,000 other fans and potential fans out there watching and that's all that matters to me.

[sariflor]

I guess some of us are having trouble understanding why you wanted to disable the embedding and not have them appear on other sites in the first place. i.e. why you would ask Morecube to take them down, which is what led to your unpleasant exchange with him. The expectation that site owners will explicitly credit the YouTube user on their page is not realistic and YouTube has accounted for this by building in links and other features in the embedded videos to let the viewer know that the source of the video is not the website they're on, but a user on YouTube.

 

It is absolutely your prerogative to not have your videos embedded on other sites but for some of us, we just want our videos to be viewed by as many people as possible so we're just explaining our point of view. It's great advertising for Mika and I want to do whatever I can to get people to fall in love with him too.

 

If a couple of people with questionable ethics benefit in the process I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. There are 300,000 other fans and potential fans out there watching and that's all that matters to me.

Thanks, that's exactly what I was trying to express.