2012 - Mika Tells Instinct, “Yeah, I’m gay.”

[Christine]

Is it common to mix up pedophilia with homosexuality in the Western world as well? I have always wondered if it was just an Eastern European phenomenon. Here it is actually very common, particularly in right-wing media.

 

I don't know. I can't imagine educated people in cosmopolitans cities thinking this but I can't speak for someone living in rural Alabama for example. In the past 25 years there has been so much incest and other sexual abuse between men/girls discussed on shows like Oprah and crime shows, etc. I think particularly at the moment abuse of boys is associated with the Catholic church or football coaches more than someone you would see marching in a Gay Pride parade.

[suzie]

There's not two equally acceptable sides to an issue. When it comes to homosexuality, there's right and there's wrong. To charge that homosexuality is unnatural, that is wrong. Insert, being Jewish, or being black, and then call that unnatural, and people would go crazy. It's the same thing. Homosexuality is biological, and there's nothing wrong with it. This is a done deal, and not up for debate..

 

Homosexuality is not a lifestyle. It's an orientation.

I really like your points and never understood why people find it so difficult to get that being gay is biologically determined and, therefore, is natural.

 

I'm noticing some from Russia are the ones trashing homosexuals. It's not surprising since their country has one of the worst track records when it comes to LGBT people. It's illegal to talk about homosexuality there, and nearly half of the country wants homosexuality re-criminalized. Gays don't stand a chance in Russia today. It's an extremely homophobic country. Many gays are seeking asylum now. What's happening to them today, has people saying that the country is returning to the Cold War.

 

I am also aware of the large scale intolerance against homosexuality in Russia and most other countries from the 'bloc' and keep wondering why that is. It could be partly the influence of the Eastern Orthodox Church (or in case of other countries like Poland and Hungary the Catholic church) but I think it is more about but the fear of the unknown and anyone who is different, and, therefore, 'suspicious'. That's the common theme everyone experienced during the regime, though Russians lived in it for 70 years whilst other countries escaped with just over 40. I guess it will take more generations to change the mentality - about everything.

Edited August 9, 2012 by suzie

[Julia Welcomes]

I really like your points and never understood why people find it so difficult to get that being gay is biologically determined and, therefore, is natural.

 

 

 

I am also aware of the large scale intolerance against homosexuality in Russia and most other countries from the 'bloc' and keep wondering why that is. It could be partly the influence of the Eastern Orthodox Church (or in case of other countries like Poland and Hungary the Catholic church) but I think it is more about but the fear of the unknown and anyone who is different, and, therefore, 'suspicious'. That's the common theme everyone experienced during the regime, though Russians lived in it for 70 years whilst other countries escaped with just over 40. I guess it will take more generations to change the mentality - about everything.

 

 

I wonder how can anyone write such critical, offensive things of straightforwardness without having your personal experience of even living in Russia at present. That`s a cliche .

 

Russia is not homophobic. Not more than any other secular country where Church has been accepted as a traditional institution. Russian Orthodox Church doesn`t fight or discriminate against LGBT people. It teaches tolerance, just like Christianity in general. It doesn`t affect our lives so much - actually, about 40 % of Russian population remain atheistic. As to me - I`m orthodox and I`m a believer , btw.

 

Many things should be changed about our mentality and way we live, but Russia is not homophobic.

[smokesignal]

There's not two equally acceptable sides to an issue. When it comes to homosexuality, there's right and there's wrong. To charge that homosexuality is unnatural, that is wrong. Insert, being Jewish, or being black, and then call that unnatural, and people would go crazy. It's the same thing. Homosexuality is biological, and there's nothing wrong with it. This is a done deal, and not up for debate.

 

Homosexuality is not a lifestyle. It's an orientation.

 

I'm noticing some from Russia are the ones trashing homosexuals. It's not surprising since their country has one of the worst track records when it comes to LGBT people. It's illegal to talk about homosexuality there, and nearly half of the country wants homosexuality re-criminalized. Gays don't stand a chance in Russia today. It's an extremely homophobic country. Many gays are seeking asylum now. What's happening to them today, has people saying that the country is returning to the Cold War.

 

I actually think that what StarryEyed<3 wrote was very valuable and important (and not unstructured at all). This is going to be a very slippery slope, so let me first emphasise how much I agree with the bolded part. However, if I had been born a hundred years ago I might have had a different view. It was only because in the past 50 years or so minority views were allowed to be voiced that I now live in a country that has gay marriage.

 

As misguided, antiquated, and in some cases unfortunately even damaging, as I think the people that want to 'save' homosexuals are, I do not think we should take their freedom of opinion and freedom of speech away from them. If we did, we'd be just as bad, denying other people some of their basic human rights.

 

As long as they are respectful (and an aggressive reaction is very different than a concerned one), people should be allowed to voice their opinion, no matter how disgusted I might be by it. Many people used to be disgusted by homosexuality. If we had not allowed the gay community to make themselves heard, nothing would have changed.

 

History has shown that it is very dangerous to be selective in which minorities views we want to allow. So yes, I absolutely agree that the 'homosexuality is unnatural' argument is complete nonsense (and even if it was true: sitting behind the computer is most definitely unnatural and I don't see anyone complaining about that). However, if people honestly believe that it is wrong to be in a homosexual relationship, I do not think we should judge them. Try to change their mind, yes. Tell them off if they're being disrespectful, absolutely. But they are entitled to their opinion as much as the LGBT community in Rusland is, and personally I'd like to behave better towards minorities than the Russian government.

[Julia Welcomes]

I actually think that what StarryEyed<3 wrote was very valuable and important (and not unstructured at all). This is going to be a very slippery slope, so let me first emphasise how much I agree with the bolded part. However, if I had been born a hundred years ago I might have had a different view. It was only because in the past 50 years or so minority views were allowed to be voiced that I now live in a country that has gay marriage.

 

 

 

History has shown that it is very dangerous to be selective in which minorities views we want to allow. So yes, I absolutely agree that the 'homosexuality is unnatural' argument is complete nonsense (and even if it was true: sitting behind the computer is most definitely unnatural and I don't see anyone complaining about that). However, if people honestly believe that it is wrong to be in a homosexual relationship, I do not think we should judge them. Try to change their mind, yes. Tell them off if they're being disrespectful, absolutely. But they are entitled to their opinion as much as the LGBT community in Rusland is, and personally I'd like to behave better towards minorities than the Russian government.

 

I`m sorry to repeat my answer twice , `cause it seems to be ignored. Please don`t .

 

 

I wonder how can anyone write such critical, insultive things of straightforwardness without having your personal experience of even living in Russia at present. That`s a cliche .

 

Russia is not homophobic. Not more than any other secular country where Church has been accepted as a traditional institution. Russian Orthodox Church doesn`t fight or discriminate against LGBT people. It teaches tolerance, just like Christianity in general. It doesn`t affect our lives so much - actually, about 40 % of Russian population remain atheistic. As to me - I`m orthodox and I`m a believer , btw.

 

Many things should be changed about our mentality and way we live, but Russia is not homophobic.

[smokesignal]

I`m sorry to repeat my answer twice , `cause it seems to be ignored. Please don`t .

 

 

I wonder how can anyone write such critical, insultive things of straightforwardness without having your personal experience of even living in Russia at present. That`s a cliche .

 

Russia is not homophobic. Not more than any other secular country where Church has been accepted as a traditional institution. Russian Orthodox Church doesn`t fight or discriminate against LGBT people. It teaches tolerance, just like Christianity in general. It doesn`t affect our lives so much - actually, about 40 % of Russian population remain atheistic. As to me - I`m orthodox and I`m a believer , btw.

 

Many things should be changed about our mentality and way we live, but Russia is not homophobic.

 

I did see your post, but as I took my time to write mine, I only saw it after I wrote it. I didn't say that Russia is homophobic, I didn't mean to say that and I definitely did not imply anything about the Russian Orthodox Church. I do not think I'm informed well enough to do that. My statement was about the Russian government, and I do think they could improve on a few things.

[suzie]

I wonder how can anyone write such critical, offensive things of straightforwardness without having your personal experience of even living in Russia at present. That`s a cliche .

 

Have you noticed I wrote about countries including mine?

 

I watch and read news just like anyone else. If you think that homophobic attitude is marginal in your country, that is fine by me, I never meant it as an offense. In my country it is not: all researches show that. People integrate all the information they hear from different sources and draw their conclusion.

[Lilasko]

I'm not going to go into your debate, but I'll post this because I just found it and I like it.

 

[suzie]

I'm not going to go into your debate, but I'll post this because I just found it and I like it ]

 

That is just what Ingie posted on the previous page.

Why not 'joining the debate'? If you have an opinion, feel free to discuss. I am sure you have one, actually.

[Dreamy_Queen]

Have you noticed I wrote about countries including mine?

 

I watch and read news just like anyone else. If you think that homophobic attitude is marginal in your country, that is fine by me, I never meant it as an offense. In my country it is not: all researches show that. People integrate all the information they hear from different sources and draw their conclusion.

 

Actually, I'm realistic about Ukraine. We don't have strict rules against homosexuality propaganda, but people still think in a Soviet manner. And many people start just giggling and saying dirty things when they hear the word "gay".

Last winter I discussed at MFC this topic and was saying, that I'm not very happy that people in my country will get to know about Mika. It was not because I am intolerate (I'm absolutely happy with Mika's choice), it was because I was afraid that he would lose all the bits of his popularity (aaaa! And there will be no gig in Kiev!).

So, all I want to say, that I understand the reasons why my country is a bad place for comong-outs, but sadly I'm not expecting any good changes. If in Kiev there are show business and people are more tolerate, but in small towns it is totally unacceptable to even have a reputation of being gay.

[Lilasko]

That is just what Ingie posted on the previous page.

Why not 'joining the debate'? If you have an opinion, feel free to discuss. I am sure you have one, actually.

 

Oh sorry, should have checked

 

Well I posted my opinion many pages back. The reason why I don't want to join the debate isn't because I don't like to discuss, I love to discuss. It's just that I have read almost nothing of what you have discussed and then I feel that my English isn't good enough, I can't express what I really want to say and think, at least not on the level I want to.

[StarryEyed<3]

Okay. I posted a pretty long opinion quite awhile back. and while it may be simply my own humble opinion it's definitely one that I believe in. Seeing how long this one conversation, discussion, debate, whatever you wish to call it has gone on, I must confess I'm not even sure what we're discussing anymore! I have an opinion rto give of course, but first what exactly is it that's so important in this debate? I lost track...

[smokesignal]

Okay. I posted a pretty long opinion quite awhile back. and while it may be simply my own humble opinion it's definitely one that I believe in. Seeing how long this one conversation' date=' discussion, debate, whatever you wish to call it has gone on, I must confess I'm not even sure what we're discussing anymore! I have an opinion rto give of course, but first what exactly is it that's so important in this debate? I lost track... [/quote']

 

There must be at least six different debates going on in this thread by now, so just give your opinion about something random and you'll fit right in

[Dreamy_Queen]

Okay. I posted a pretty long opinion quite awhile back. and while it may be simply my own humble opinion it's definitely one that I believe in. Seeing how long this one conversation' date=' discussion, debate, whatever you wish to call it has gone on, I must confess I'm not even sure what we're discussing anymore! I have an opinion rto give of course, but first what exactly is it that's so important in this debate? I lost track... [/quote']

 

Get used to it - it's the way MFC is and will be

Its strange that we haven't talked there yet about Gertrude

[StarryEyed<3]

There must be at least six different debates going on in this thread by now, so just give your opinion about something random and you'll fit right in

 

Ah okay then I'm just thinking..., there are so many debates going on in this thread. To be honest, I don't really see the point anymore! Although these are certainly important issues, is it really that awful if people disagree with you? How much is it worth to make sure that people understand your viewpoint? Scrolling through here shows me something about human nature that I'm not entirely sure I'd like to accept. Although it's one thing to oppose opression, it's entirely another to go on like this, and in my humble opinion we're bringing it to a different level altogether such that it only intensifies the tension. Is it not that the purpose of starting this whole thing was because some people didn't agree with homosexuality? For people who want to decrease the amount of people who don't get along we've made a huge mess of an argument. What happened to live and let live? I would understand if these people were going out of their way to do something unconstitutional etc, but if people simply have a seperate viewpoint from you what IS the point of arguing it to death? It's not as though those people are going to suddenly "see the light" and accept what you say without deciding for themselves. and I suppose that's the end of my poorly expressed rant for now.

[StarryEyed<3]

Get used to it - it's the way MFC is and will be

Its strange that we haven't talked there yet about Gertrude

 

I suppose I'll have to get used to it then Although things are quite a bit confusing I must admit it's rather brilliant how easy it is to get your opinion across in this type of an environment, so no issues there

[Christine]

I find it interesting that there seems to be a correlation between homophobic attitudes and denial. For instance I can't imagine Mika coming out is going to have much of a negative impact on him in the UK because EVERYONE in the UK has thought he was gay since early 2007. There was an article in the Daily Mail the other day with a couple of hundred responses. I'd say 95% of them were sarcastic exclamations of faux shock (things like "You don't say! Next thing you'll be telling us that Elton John is gay!") and the other 5% were "Who the hell is Mika?".

 

Oh sorry, should have checked

 

Well I posted my opinion many pages back. The reason why I don't want to join the debate isn't because I don't like to discuss, I love to discuss. It's just that I have read almost nothing of what you have discussed and then I feel that my English isn't good enough, I can't express what I really want to say and think, at least not on the level I want to.

 

I can't recall everything you've ever written but based on this post you sound like a native speaker to me.

[crazyaboutmika]

Get used to it - it's the way MFC is and will be

Its strange that we haven't talked there yet about Gertrude

[Christine]

Is it not that the purpose of starting this whole thing was because some people didn't agree with homosexuality?

 

No the purpose of the thread is to discuss the article. There is 5.5 years of history here and a lot of things that happen off MFC. Discussion of Mika's sexuality was pretty much off limits until around 2009 and we've never been able to have an adult conversation about him being gay because people would just say that "you don't know" or "it's none of your business".

 

Now we do know and Mika has made it as much our business as anything else he says in public. So here we are finally discussing it.

 

What happened to live and let live?

 

I was living and let living until someone started saying that it's okay for Mika to be a murderer but not to have a boyfriend. We can censor it or we can debate it, but I don't think it's appropriate to let statements like that go unchallenged. Not only is Mika part of the LGBT community but so are many members of MFC or friends and family of members.

 

What if we were talking about race instead of sexuality? How far do you let people's opinions go unchallenged in the name of "live and let live"?

[suzie]

@Dreamy_Queen Thank you for your reply on what I posted. I did so because I am interested in other people' s honest view from the same region - we do share some decades of common history based on similar ideology , and consequently, similar experience. I also believe that such strong homophobic attitude is more rooted in the communist ideology though historically the churches in the region have also strongly condemned homosexuality . Then it was criminalised by the regime, so in a way it is difficult to have all people suddently accept 'a way of life' that people were sent to prison before. And I am using 'way of life' because that is how it was all explained if talked about at all: a choice people made, like some men made the choice to grow their hair despite the regime condemning that as well. It sounds surreal even to me now - glad it all ended before I became an adult.

[Poisonyoulove]

Get used to it - it's the way MFC is and will be

Its strange that we haven't talked there yet about Gertrude

 

Gertrude is straight. She told me herself, whilst we were flying planes with John Travolta.

 

[smokesignal]

Gertrude is straight. She told me herself, whilst we were flying planes with John Travolta.

 

 

I thought Gertrude was a boy?

[Poisonyoulove]

I thought Gertrude was a boy?

 

OMG IT WAS ALL LIES!

[Christine]

And I am using 'way of life' because that is how it was all explained if talked about at all: a choice people made, like some men made the choice to grow their hair despite the regime condemning that as well.

 

I think this may persist everywhere in the world, just as there are people who think that things like evolution and global warming are still unproven and therefore there's no reason to treat it as fact.

 

I think in countries with a long democratic tradition it is framed as a human rights issue and people are reminded of the separation of church and state. So it doesn't matter if it's a lifestyle choice and it doesn't matter what your church thinks of it. It's not your place to tell other people how to live their lives.

[StarryEyed<3]

No the purpose of the thread is to discuss the article. There is 5.5 years of history here and a lot of things that happen off MFC. Discussion of Mika's sexuality was pretty much off limits until around 2009 and we've never been able to have an adult conversation about him being gay because people would just say that "you don't know" or "it's none of your business".

 

Now we do know and Mika has made it as much our business as anything else he says in public. So here we are finally discussing it.

 

 

 

I was living and let living until someone started saying that it's okay for Mika to be a murderer but not to have a boyfriend. We can censor it or we can debate it, but I don't think it's appropriate to let statements like that go unchallenged. Not only is Mika part of the LGBT community but so are many members of MFC or friends and family of members.

 

What if we were talking about race instead of sexuality? How far do you let people's opinions go unchallenged in the name of "live and let live"?

 

Ah, thanks for clearing that up for me since it's hard to read exactly everything that's posted here Well then. I agree with you there. My point in saying "live and let live" was mainly, hmm, this discussion has been going on for so long and it seems as though we'll most likely never reach a final statement on many of the debates that are going on in this thread. Does that mean we shouldn't discuss them? Absolutely not. But my point being that this conversation on Mika's sexuality is difficult not to turn into a discussion that many will take personally, and so it's a hard one to work around. I'm not even so sure anymore that we're working towards a solution to the conversation so much as we're throwing opinions out there for the sole purpose of disagreeing with someone. Is the point really to discuss, or as I"ve seen begin to happen, to get someone else to agree with you on matters that can become interpretive and deal alot with how someone was brought up?