2015 - Adelphi Theatre, London 18 October - REPORTS/PICS/VIDS

[Christine]

As far as I can understand, Adelphi theatre is also a place with style, which might not be the right place to shout at the artist on stage, at least not about his choosen setlist But I'm probably not the right person to judge this, because I don't know what's the rule, or culture, for the UK gigs, neither in halls/theatres - nor at big arenas...

The rule is that people paid money for their tickets so they can do whatever they want as long as they are not seriously impeding the performance or disturbing people in the audience. This was just a bit of banter with the audience that Mika himself initiated with parlez vous francais. It is a pop concert not an opera. I have been at shows where drunk girls scream "you're hot" at the top of their lungs for 2 hours. It goes with the territory.

 

Christine: you said the French songs weren't good modern pop. I think you're right, Les baisers is "chanson française", and quite great in that style imo. The lyrics are indeed very poetic and full of references to french culture, but it isn't one of my favorites.

In fact the only french song I really like is Elle me dit, because I find it original and a great feel good song. The live intro of BBB is nice too!

Yes this is exactly it. This is why I think his insistence that English pop fans embrace this music just because he likes it is ridiculous. There is no reason why someone who got turned onto Mika because of Grace Kelly should like chanson francaise unless it is part of their cultural history. If Mika started to sing 1970s era American country music, I am pretty sure his French fans who fell in love with him because of Relax would be like wtf is this? You're not seriously going to make song after song in this non-pop genre just for the sake of appealing to Americans?

 

Having said that I find a lot of his songs rather cheesy but strangely enough I don't mind that at all and it doesn't stop me from listening to them. For example the song Gave it all away (sung with Boyzone) or Good guys are the kind of songs that I usually never listen to or find interesting. But if Mika sings them, I'm fine with it, I keep repeating them and I even like them after a while.

 

This is what I call songs only a mother could love. Fans only like these songs because they adore Mika and not because it honestly reflects their taste in music. (I don't mean these particular songs because we all have different tastes, but there are almost always songs people "force" themselves to listen to even when they don't like them because they want to be a good fan. Eventually they convince themselves they love them.) And before anyone starts freaking out, thinking I am calling them stupid, I understand this phenomenon because it happened to me. I used to love every single thing Mika did simply because it was Mika. But now that my sun doesn't rise and set by the light in Mika's eyes, I have no desire to listen to these songs that do not live up to the standard set by Grace Kelly. I would rather listen to Justin Bieber because he has produced some great modern pop on his last album.

 

About the difference between the French and the English songs to get back on topic, i think TAY and Staring at the sun are just as dated as L'Amour and Je Chante.

Yes of course, but I blame this on the influence of his total immersion in French and Italian music so he can do these TV shows instead of keeping his head in the English pop game. Everyone told me to stop moaning about the TV shows because he would make a great pop album at the end of it but that didn't happen. The first single was some melody ripped off a 1980s Italian novelty song. People talk about Mika's international influences as if it is an inherently good thing but it is not something that is guaranteed to produce better results and IMO it hasn't. At least not if you want to be a contemporary pop star in the English speaking world or even in France. The French are also not buying Mika's music like they used to. I think you'd be hard pressed to find a French person who bought LICM in 2007 who likes TAY and J'ai pas envie as much as Relax.

[Pascale]

 This was just a bit of banter with the audience that Mika himself initiated with parlez vous francais. It is a pop concert not an opera.

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I'm puzzled about his -inner- reaction at the concert and his remarks in the interview. It all seems so out of proportion. At first it made me also think that he meant someone else. But let's not start the whole discussion over again, hopefully time will give some answers.

 

This is what I call songs only a mother could love. Fans only like these songs because they adore Mika and not because it honestly reflects their taste in music. (I don't mean these particular songs because we all have different tastes, but there are almost always songs people "force" themselves to listen to even when they don't like them because they want to be a good fan. Eventually they convince themselves they love them.)

Interesting analysis. There's some truth in it but as usual I don't agree completely. I don't listen to the "uninteresting" songs because I want to be a good fan. Actually I don't want to be a fan at all. It sort of happened and now I'm okay with it because it's more fun than I ever thought it would be.

  

So the reason I keep listening to those songs is either because they are on the cd's and I don't like skipping songs or because there is something that intrigues me in the clips on YouTube (like Mika's interaction with the Boyzone boys and the crazy dancing girls behind the singers) or because there's something in the melody or words that interests me or appeals to me even if I don't particularly like the song as a whole in the beginning. For example I listened to L'Amour a lot because I wanted to understand the lyrics and practice pronouncing French. And like I said I really love his voice, so I don't have to "force" myself to listen to any song.

 

However it is certainly true that I wouldn't have listened to a lot of his songs more than once if they weren't Mika's and it's also true that they don't reflect my taste in music even if that taste is very eclectic and I like all different kinds of songs. I don't know if I adore Mika. Maybe I do, he certainly means something special to me although my sun doesn't rise and set (anymore) with the light in his eyes. But I don't think it's this "adoration" that makes me like the more recent songs. There are quite a few nice songs at TOOL and NPIH and even the more "uninteresting" songs have catchy melodies. I might not think that they are very good but i don't think they are bad as well (with a few exceptions, but again even those songs have catchy melodies)  And as a whole the cd's give me a happy mood, so that's a very good reason to like all the songs   

 

 

Yes of course, but I blame this on the influence of his total immersion in French and Italian music so he can do these TV shows instead of keeping his head in the English pop game. Everyone told me to stop moaning about the TV shows because he would make a great pop album at the end of it but that didn't happen. The first single was some melody ripped off a 1980s Italian novelty song. People talk about Mika's international influences as if it is an inherently good thing but it is not something that is guaranteed to produce better results and IMO it hasn't. At least not if you want to be a contemporary pop star in the English speaking world or even in France.

  

But why use the word "blame"? He couldn't go on doing the same things the did on his first two records so I think it's fine that he tries to find other inspiration and why not outside the English pop game. There are great French or Italian artists that could be interesting influences. Okay, I agree that at the moment the result is not great (at least not to me, there are a lot of people that love his new music) but it might very well be again one day. It's not easy to renew yourself. Most artists never do and some artists have a few "lesser" cd's and than suddenly they are back with wonderful new things. I'm not sure if participating in the Voice/X-factor or immersing in French ad Italian music will be beneficial to his music in the end but time will tell. At least he tries different things.

 

By the way what I think is just as distracting from re-inventing himself as his participation in the Voice ad X factor is that he keeps performing so many of his old songs. I understand very well that people still want to hear those songs in a gig. I'm glad i myself got the chance to hear them live because i wasn't there in 2007/8. And I guess it's still fun for him because he looks very happy at his gigs. On the other hand, I can't believe it's very inspiring or creative to perform Grace Kelly or Lollipop for the 300th time even if he uses new arrangements.

 

 

 I think you'd be hard pressed to find a French person who bought LICM in 2007 who likes TAY and J'ai pas envie as much as Relax.

I 100 % agree with this

Edited March 14, 2016 by Pascale

[suzie]

 

Edit: Corrected some spelling errors. How useful it is to say anything if you make such bad spelling errors no one can take it seriously.   So sorry about my English! Oh well.  

 

And how useful is it to play the kind but misunderstood fan whose opinion is not considered because of nothing but language issues?

I know  my earlier post left open doors in interpretation, so I hope my recent response to Yang made it all clear: I was wondering about the strength of an argument in which a native speaker is asked to bring down the level of convesation so it pleased fans posting mostly pictures with 2-3 misspelled words. I have acknowledged that I have jumped to conclusion soon and, at the same time, I also recognize how it easily one can take it out of context and play the victim card.

So, this is my last attempt to explain what I meant and I am mainly writing this for the newbies so it is clear:  everyone is encouraged to post here, no matter what their level of English is

Edited March 14, 2016 by suzie

[Christine]

However it is certainly true that I wouldn't have listened to a lot of his songs more than once if they weren't Mika's and it's also true that they don't reflect my taste in music even if that taste is very eclectic and I like all different kinds of songs.

Yes this is the point I was trying to make. I don't think Mika fans do this with other artists or at least not with random artists. Although that is a good point re the melodies. It makes them easier to listen to even if you don't appreciate a song that much on an intellectual level. Whereas most artists have a few catchy hit songs and it's very easy to skip the rest. Especially in this iTunes/Spotify era where there is no need to listen to or buy the songs you don't love.

 

 

By the way what I think is just as distracting from re-inventing himself as his participation in the Voice ad X factor is that he keeps performing so many of his old songs. I understand very well that people still want to hear those songs in a gig. I'm glad i myself got the chance to hear them live because i wasn't there in 2007/8. And I guess it's still fun for him because he looks very happy at his gigs. On the other hand, I can't believe it's very inspiring or creative to perform Grace Kelly or Lollipop for the 300th time even if he uses new arrangements.

 

These old songs are not supposed to be inspiring. It is just another part of his job as a recording and performing artist to perform them. What Mika normally did between albums and what my other favourite artists who have produced stellar third albums (Adele and Paolo Nutini) have done is go off and live a real life. They were not juggling 3 other careers at the same time, they rarely performed at all and they both scrapped their initial attempts when they weren't good enough and started over. They didn't put out a product until it was good enough even if it took 3 or 4 years.

 

Fans can repeat over and over how happy Mika is with his life or how he needs to fund his music with his millions of other commitments. All of that may be true but I do not enjoy this music anywhere near as much as his earlier albums.

[tiibet]

And how useful is it to play the kind but misunderstood fan whose opinion is not considered because of nothing but language issues?

I know  my earlier post left open doors in interpretation, so I hope my recent response to Yang made it all clear: I was wondering about the strength of an argument in which a native speaker is asked to bring down the level of convesation so it pleased fans posting mostly pictures with 2-3 misspelled words. I have acknowledged that I have jumped to conclusion soon and, at the same time, I also recognize how it easily one can take it out of context and play the victim card.

So, this is my last attempt to explain what I meant and I am mainly writing this for the newbies so it is clear:  everyone is encouraged to post here, no matter what their level of English is

 

Actually the edited part in my last post was simply to express my frustration to myself. I really tried to write a clear point but managed to make some huge spelling errors that kind of ruined the whole impression. I think people understood what I wanted to say but it was still annoying, it always is. I think you and Yang already had an understanding in your earlier language discussion and my comment wasn't meant to be a part of that at all. 

[Christine]

I understand that the UK (or other English speaking) audience doesn't find French songs generally appealing and the reasons behind it, I've learnt about it during some previous MFC discussions. French music is simply not a part of the UK music culture or taste. What I find harder to understand and where I pay attention as a foreigner (coming from a not English speaking country) is the unconditional tone. It has not been a part of the music culture so far so it can't ever be that. Why not some day in the future? Why not give it a chance? 

 

I think the whole world has moved towards a monoculture and right now it happens to be English. You are right, that could change in the future. Maybe China or Islamic culture will become dominant one day. But right now English is the lingua franca of communication and entertainment because of the internet and the way English imperialism created these large wealthy countries that produce a lot of music, TV, film and books. Everyone wants to watch Game of Thrones and Star Wars and listen to Adele and Justin Bieber. To ask why English people are not constantly searching around and struggling to understand foreign entertainment is like asking why someone with a pantry full of food and a freezer full of meat is not out there gathering berries and hunting squirrels. I think English could shift to some other dominant language culture but I don't see it ever devolving so that everyone is searching out more and more languages/cultures.

[tiibet]

I think the whole world has moved towards a monoculture and right now it happens to be English. You are right, that could change in the future. Maybe China or Islamic culture will become dominant one day. But right now English is the lingua franca of communication and entertainment because of the internet and the way English imperialism created these large wealthy countries that produce a lot of music, TV, film and books. Everyone wants to watch Game of Thrones and Star Wars and listen to Adele and Justin Bieber. To ask why English people are not constantly searching around and struggling to understand foreign entertainment is like asking why someone with a pantry full of food and a freezer full of meat is not out there gathering berries and hunting squirrels. I think English could shift to some other dominant language culture but I don't see it ever devolving so that everyone is searching out more and more languages/cultures.

 

Thanks for your explanation. I believe you are right even I still wonder why people don't want to find larger/different selection from other than English speaking countries. I understand it's more work but sometimes it would give a different point of view. How typical it is in Canada (or other English speaking countries) to watch foreign films? You mentioned earlier Amelie but how about other French, Spanish or maybe even Nordic films? I'm asking because this is something I often wonder. In Finland it's really normal to watch also other than American/British films. They are always subtitled and even small kids (as soon as they can read) are used to read subtitles. And I know that in many European countries (Italy, German etc) even English is sometimes dubbed in other languages which is simply impossible to understand or get used to coming from a Nordic country. Here only children's movies (for kids under school age and mostly animations) are dubbed and it's done using real actors. American films are of course most popular but it's still quite usual to see other films on television as well. 

Edited March 14, 2016 by tiibet

[Christine]

Thanks for your explanation. How typical it is in Canada (or other English speaking countries) to watch foreign films? You mentioned earlier Amelie but how about other French, Spanish or maybe even Nordic films? I'm asking because this is something I often wonder. In Finland it's really normal to watch also other than American/British films. They are always subtitled and even small kids (as soon as they can read) are used to read subtitles. And I know that in many European countries (Italy, German etc) even English is sometimes dubbed in other languages which is simply impossible to understand or get used to coming from a Nordic country. Here only children's movies (for kids under school age and mostly animations) are dubbed and it's done using real actors. American films are of course most popular but it's still quite usual to see other films on television as well. 

 

There are trends. A couple of my friends are watching a lot of Nordic Noir at the moment because it's really good and it's available. But it's not like we were all sitting around watching Danish TV when we were 8 years old. It's just a trend at the moment. Also a lot of young people are into K-pop. One of my British friends is familiar with Korean artists and I've noticed it's a genre on Canadian Spotify, whereas the only other foreign genres are francophone and latino because there are millions of French and Spanish speakers in North America. I will watch foreign films if they've had a lot of critical acclaim or I see them on Netflix but I have never watched a foreign TV show unless it's to see Mika or whoever make an appearance. I don't think I would like most of it for the same reason I don't watch Canadian TV. The production values are low and there is far better stuff to watch coming out of the US and UK so why bother. Also I think with TV shows a lot of stuff is not going to translate even if there are subtitles. It took me years to truly understand what was going on on Coronation Street because of all the cultural references and slang in northern England that I was not familiar with. And there is a particular brand of comedy I can't imagine outside of the UK/US. Even 90% of English shows do not match up to it and I can't be bothered watching lame comedies.

[tiibet]

There are trends. A couple of my friends are watching a lot of Nordic Noir at the moment because it's really good and it's available. But it's not like we were all sitting around watching Danish TV when we were 8 years old. It's just a trend at the moment. Also a lot of young people are into K-pop. One of my British friends is familiar with Korean artists and I've noticed it's a genre on Canadian Spotify, whereas the only other foreign genres are francophone and latino because there are millions of French and Spanish speakers in North America. I will watch foreign films if they've had a lot of critical acclaim or I see them on Netflix but I have never watched a foreign TV show unless it's to see Mika or whoever make an appearance. I don't think I would like most of it for the same reason I don't watch Canadian TV. The production values are low and there is far better stuff to watch coming out of the US and UK so why bother. Also I think with TV shows a lot of stuff is not going to translate even if there are subtitles. It took me years to truly understand what was going on on Coronation Street because of all the cultural references and slang in northern England that I was not familiar with. And there is a particular brand of comedy I can't imagine outside of the UK/US. Even 90% of English shows do not match up to it and I can't be bothered watching lame comedies.

 

I'm sure I often miss foreign references. And sometimes I get the reference but translation is bad or even totally wrong and it's really annoying. I guess with average television series it's about time and money to do a good translation. Good quality films have better translations. I don't actually watch Finnish television at all myself but I watch a lot of films (at movie theaters) and also DVDs.

[Christine]

I'm sure I often miss foreign references. And sometimes I get the reference but translation is bad or even totally wrong and it's really annoying. I guess with average television series it's about time and money to do a good translation. Good quality films have better translations. I don't actually watch Finnish television at all myself but I watch a lot of films (at movie theaters) and also DVDs.

 

Yes I think most small countries like Canada and Finland are not going to have particularly good TV. We just don't have the budget for it and cannot compete with these blockbuster film or period piece level productions they are coming out with now like Game of Thrones and Downton Abbey. But I am so sick of zombies and vampires and superheroes and remakes and just want to watch a good story about some interesting characters. So when it comes to film I definitely appreciate something like The Intouchables (France) over a lot of Hollywood movies. I also like Bollywood movies because they remind me of musicals from the 50s, 60s and 70s although I'd still rather watch one where the dialogue is in English.

[mamiam]

Yes I think most small countries like Canada and Finland are not going to have particularly good TV. We just don't have the budget for it and cannot compete with these blockbuster film or period piece level productions they are coming out with now like Game of Thrones and Downton Abbey. But I am so sick of zombies and vampires and superheroes and remakes and just want to watch a good story about some interesting characters. So when it comes to film I definitely appreciate something like The Intouchables (France) over a lot of Hollywood movies. I also like Bollywood movies because they remind me of musicals from the 50s, 60s and 70s although I'd still rather watch one where the dialogue is in English.

 

Are you saying that Canada is a small country!? In an earlier discussion, some months ago, you asked me to take a look at the map, to see the size  I've always known  that it's HUGE  I just checked it now,  and found out it's 10 mill. km2, and the 2nd biggest country in the world, after Russia OK - I know what you mean, it's small in the meaning of TV productions.  Talking  about TV from Canada, I really enjoyed to see our skiing girls (and men )  at Ski Tour Canada lately!   It was so nice to see Therese winning the ladies race, right below the skyscrapers in Montreal, where I was lucky enough to walk myself, in the cold February days,  one year ago, thanks to MIKA and MFC    Off topic - but you and Nina already are far away from the Adelphi theatre...   

 

Love, love

me   

[Christine]

Are you saying that Canada is a small country!? In an earlier discussion, some months ago, you asked me to take a look at the map, to see the size  I've always known  that it's HUGE  I just checked it now,  and found out it's 10 mill. km2, and the 2nd biggest country in the world, after Russia OK - I know what you mean, it's small in the meaning of TV productions.  Talking  about TV from Canada, I really enjoyed to see our skiing girls (and men )  at Ski Tour Canada lately!   It was so nice to see Therese winning the ladies race, right below the skyscrapers in Montreal, where I was lucky enough to walk myself, in the cold February days,  one year ago, thanks to MIKA and MFC    Off topic - but you and Nina already are far away from the Adelphi theatre...   

 

Love, love

me   

 

 

Ha, yes I just mean a small population. We are 1/10th the size of the US, so have 1/10th the budget. There are government regulations to protect and promote Canadian TV but it's impossible to contain the influence of the US and it's all falling apart now with streaming taking over traditional TV anyway. One benefit is that it is cheaper to produce projects in Canada so a lot of American TV and movies are filmed here which at least gives jobs to locals in production and minor acting roles.

 

I hope your skiers did well!

[mamiam]

Ha, yes I just mean a small population. We are 1/10th the size of the US, so have 1/10th the budget. There are government regulations to protect and promote Canadian TV but it's impossible to contain the influence of the US and it's all falling apart now with streaming taking over traditional TV anyway. One benefit is that it is cheaper to produce projects in Canada so a lot of American TV and movies are filmed here which at least gives jobs to locals in production and minor acting roles.

 

I hope your skiers did well!

 

Yes, it's kind of similar to Norway, in many ways  We have a "big",  or at least long country, but a small population,  only 5,2  mill. people, which means we have plenty of place Yes thank you, our skiers did really well in Canada! :thumb_yello:They won several races, again in very cold weather, something they're used to...  And they loved to be in your country! This last weekend Canadians have been taking part in the World Champion Ship in duathlon in Oslo - I think the men got bronze!      

 

Love, love

me

 

Love, love

me  

[Pascale]

These old songs are not supposed to be inspiring. It is just another part of his job as a recording and performing artist to perform them....

Fans can repeat over and over how happy Mika is with his life or how he needs to fund his music with his millions of other commitments. All of that may be true but I do not enjoy this music anywhere near as much as his earlier albums.

The reason why I mentioned his happiness during performing the old songs was not to defend his decision to perform them. I was just mentioning a reason why he still did it after all those years (except for giving his fans a good time). I don't believe that Mika is entitled to expect his fans to pay for his happiness. I believe he is entitled to choose whatever setlist for whatever motivation (happiness/money/fan-wishes/ career opportunities) and his fans are entitled to go to the concert or to stay away and they are fully entitled to dislike his new music and his participation in tv shows and to repeat that over and over as well.

[Christine]

The reason why I mentioned his happiness during performing the old songs was not to defend his decision to perform them. I was just mentioning a reason why he still did it after all those years (except for giving his fans a good time). I don't believe that Mika is entitled to expect his fans to pay for his happiness. I believe he is entitled to choose whatever setlist for whatever motivation (happiness/money/fan-wishes/ career opportunities) and his fans are entitled to go to the concert or to stay away and they are fully entitled to dislike his new music and his participation in tv shows and to repeat that over and over as well.

 

Yes, I wasn't referencing your mention of happiness, just the general comments by fans over the years. You can't express discontent with anything Mika is doing without someone pointing out that Mika is happy. As if there is any correlation at all between these two things.

[Pascale]

I think the whole world has moved towards a monoculture and right now it happens to be English. You are right, that could change in the future. Maybe China or Islamic culture will become dominant one day. But right now English is the lingua franca of communication and entertainment because of the internet and the way English imperialism created these large wealthy countries that produce a lot of music, TV, film and books. Everyone wants to watch Game of Thrones and Star Wars and listen to Adele and Justin Bieber. To ask why English people are not constantly searching around and struggling to understand foreign entertainment is like asking why someone with a pantry full of food and a freezer full of meat is not out there gathering berries and hunting squirrels. I think English could shift to some other dominant language culture but I don't see it ever devolving so that everyone is searching out more and more languages/cultures.

no, it's more like asking why people that have their fridge full of food like their mother made, don't want to go out and do shopping for foreign food like falafel or quiche Lorraine.It's not like foreign entertainment is old fashioned or lags behind English culture.

Noone should be obliged to eat different things than he/she already knows and I absolutely don't mean to say that sticking to familiar food is narrow minded (or intolerant) but some people enjoy trying out things that are foreign (I'm sure you do as well in other areas).

 

I studied Classical languages because I am interested in different languages and grammar and because I believe the way to understand a culture more fully is to learn the language. One thing that I like about Mika is that his singing and talking in French and Italian stimulates me to learn those languages as well. I'm not saying everyone should be like me but to say that since the English language is the Lingua Franca, there's no reason for English speaking people to learn other languages is a denial of the great pleasure that a lot of people get from doing that

[Christine]

no, it's more like asking why people that have their fridge full of food like their mother made, don't want to go out and do shopping for foreign food like falafel or quiche Lorraine.It's not like foreign entertainment is old fashioned or lags behind English culture.

Noone should be obliged to eat different things than he/she already knows and I absolutely don't mean to say that sticking to familiar food is narrow minded (or intolerant) but some people enjoy trying out things that are foreign (I'm sure you do as well in other areas).

 

I studied Classical languages because I am interested in different languages and grammar and because I believe the way to understand a culture more fully is to learn the language. One thing that I like about Mika is that his singing and talking in French and Italian stimulates me to learn those languages as well. I'm not saying everyone should be like me but to say that since the English language is the Lingua Franca, there's no reason for English speaking people to learn other languages is a denial of the great pleasure that a lot of people get from doing that

 

No my pantry is already full of things that have been harvested and appropriated from all over the world and repackaged just for me and my tastes. If there is a francophone in Quebec who has the potential to be one of the best singers in the world she will learn English and will break into the American market because it is the most lucrative in the world. If there is a great Nordic Noir series, an American will buy it and remake it in English. It is the same reason I do not bother with these talent shows. Sure there have been some incredibly great singers and performances to come out of these shows, but I know when they do they will find their way to me. There is no reason for me to sift through hundreds of hours of boring crap looking for that diamond. The cream always rises to the top and chances are it will end up on my local radio station or my Facebook feed. Just as I'm sure people in Europe are watching Game of Thrones and they are not watching some terrible American TV show that was cancelled after 13 episodes in 1985. This is the reason Canadians mythologize British TV as one the greatest cultural inventions of modern times. Most people don't know that in the 1990s the Brits were watching Pet Rescue on Thursday nights instead of Friends and Seinfeld and think the TV schedule in the UK is morning-to-night Monty Python and Sherlock.

 

Of course it goes without saying that I am missing out on some things but I cannot possibly assess all of the English language art out there as it is. We have to use some kind of filter and this is as good as any for me. It is almost a certainty that an American comedy written by the creator of Seinfeld for example, is going to appeal to me more than some German comedy. Maybe if I was watching German comedies when I was 5 I would feel differently, but I wasn't and there's nothing I can do about that now. I can't rewire my brain 40 years later to find things funny when I don't. I can trace back my interest in Mika to everything I was obsessing over when I was 14 years old. If he wanders off on some completely unrelated tangent now I am not going to follow him there because it doesn't appeal to me.

 

About learning a language, of course there is no reason why English people shouldn't if they find it pleasurable but personally I don't. It's just a necessary evil and I want to learn French because it's a valuable job skill in Canada. That doesn't mean I don't like the French language, but I just want to understand it, I do not enjoy learning it. It's torturous and I find it ridiculously frustrating that I cannot do something that every 4 year old in France can do.

[Pascale]

Yes, I wasn't referencing your mention of happiness, just the general comments by fans over the years. You can't express discontent with anything Mika is doing without someone pointing out that Mika is happy. As if there is any correlation at all between these two things.

That's a good point you're making. I can't remember all my earlier posts and I won't go reading them again. But it might very well be that I made that connection as well somewhere. The conversation:

A: I'm discontent that Mika is singing French

B: Well, he likes singing French and he is happy doing that.

sounds very logical to me. But when you think about it, it's not logical at all.

However somehow there ís a correlation but there are some steps missing in this dialogue. Interesting, I'm going to think about it when I'm less tired..

Edited March 15, 2016 by Pascale

[Pascale]

Of course it goes without saying that I am missing out on some things but I cannot possibly assess all of the English language art out there as it is. We have to use some kind of filter and this is as good as any for me.

I don't object to this attitude or choice. I object to you generalising your taste into the taste of all English speaking people. (not good english at all but I hope you get the point) and to you implying that this choice is the only logical choice (English) people can make. But thanks for your explanation. It's nice to hear more about this because I've never completely understood that it's like this for a lot of English people. Being Dutch I come from a completely different world since hardly anyone outside of Holland speaks Dutch and most of us are used to watching foreign movies, series etc. and to listening to music in different languages. It is part of our childhood and so part of our reference framework. That's a bigger difference than I realized until now. 

 

It's torturous and I find it ridiculously frustrating that I cannot do something that every 4 year old in France can do.

Oh but I totally share this frustration. I hate it that, whatever effort I'm making I will never be fluent in any foreign language anymore. I hate my "dutch"constructions in English. I'm very irritated when, re-reading my posts, I see new grammatical and spelling mistakes all the time. I would love to have a bigger vocabulary, so I could write more funny and original sentences. And English is my best second language, so you can imagine how frustrated I am trying to learn French or Italian, let alone Chinese or Turkish. If I could do it all over again, I would insist on learning at least 5 foreign languages before the age of 10. But strangely enough, this frustration doesn't stop me from enjoying learning completely new languages (and forgetting them just as quickly  ) or trying to improve the languages that I'm more familiar with.   

[Christine]

That's a good point you're making. I can't remember all my earlier posts and I won't go reading them again. But it might very well be that I made that connection as well somewere. The conversation: 

A: I'm discontent that Mika is singing French

B: Well, he likes singing French and he is happy doing that.

sounds very logical to me. But when you think about it, it's not logical at all.

However somehow there ís a correlation but there are some steps missing in this dialogue. Interesting, I'm going to think about it when I'm less tired..

 

It's only logical if you start from the premise that what Mika likes to do with his time is more important to you than what you want to do with your time. Why anyone would do this is beyond me. Of course what makes Mika happy is more important to Mika than my happiness but I am expressing my own discontent, not his.

 

I don't object to this attitude or choice. I object to you generalising your taste into the taste of all English speaking people. (not good english at all but I hope you get the point) and to you implying that this choice is the only logical choice (English) people can make. But thanks for your explanation. It's nice to hear more about this because I've never completely understood that it's like this for a lot of English people. Being Dutch I come from a completely different world since hardly anyone outside of Holland speaks Dutch and most of us are used to watching foreign movies, series etc. and to listening to music in different languages. It is part of our childhood and so part of our reference framework. That's a bigger difference than I realized until now.

How many more times can I use "I" and "me" in a sentence to illustrate that I'm talking about myself? My guess is that most English speakers never give it any thought at all. Foreign entertainment is just not readily available to them due to market forces beyond their control and it never occurs to them to go looking for it because they are inundated with more entertainment than one human could consume as it is. I don't make these taste generalizations on behalf of English speakers, Hollywood and radio programmers do. They are the ones buying up foreign TV shows and remaking them into something they believe will appeal more to Americans and they are the ones deciding not to put foreign language songs on mainstream radio. I heard some rumblings going on in Europe when Big Brother first came out because it was around the time it was launching in the UK and I was moving back to Canada but the average Canadian is not going to have it on their radar until it starts airing on US television. I can almost guarantee you there wasn't one person in Wyoming or northern Scotland listening to Celine Dion when she was a strictly francophone artist. The climate may be a bit different in the UK, I can only speak to what I noticed on radio and TV when I lived there and in talking to other MFCers. But there is an ocean (not to mention Ireland and the UK) between North America and mainland Europe. It just doesn't penetrate here.

 

Oh but I totally share this frustration. I hate it that, whatever effort I'm making I will never be fluent in any foreign language anymore. I hate my "dutch"constructions in English. I'm very irritated when, re-reading my posts, I see new grammatical and spelling mistakes all the time. I would love to have a bigger vocabulary, so I could write more funny and original sentences. And English is my best second language, so you can imagine how frustrated I am trying to learn French or Italian, let alone Chinese or Turkish. If I could do it all over again, I would insist on learning at least 5 foreign languages before the age of 10. But strangely enough, this frustration doesn't stop me from enjoying learning completely new languages (and forgetting them just as quickly  ) or trying to improve the languages that I'm more familiar with.

Yes I really wish I'd done it when I was 7 years old! They start teaching French here much earlier now and my niece was in immersion so she's properly bilingual. Her younger sister is in Nantes right now on an exchange program.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Christine

[Pascale]

It's only logical if you start from the premise that what Mika likes to do with his time is more important to you than what you want to do with your time. Why anyone would do this is beyond me. Of course what makes Mika happy is more important to Mika than my happiness but I am expressing my own discontent, not his.

Haha, I think you'd better start from the premise that whether Mika is happy or not is much more important to loyal fan B than whether disappointed fan A is discontent or not. Then it's all suddenly becoming very logical.

How many more times can I use "I" and "me" in a sentence to illustrate that I'm talking about myself?

Well okay, maybe here you are talking about yourself but lots of times you're drawing conclusions for the whole English speaking population. But I'm going to bed now so I won't search all your posts now to prove my point. That's for another time. Good night. Edited March 15, 2016 by Pascale

[Christine]

Haha, I think you'd better start from the premise that whether Mika is happy or not is much important to loyal fan B than whether disappointed fan A is discontent or not. Then it's all suddenly becoming very logical.

 

Yes indeed

 

Well okay, maybe here you are talking about yourself but lots of times you're drawing conclusions for the whole English speaking population. But I'm going to bed now so I won't search all your posts now to prove my point. That's for another time.  Good night.

I am just telling you what is going on in the English speaking world because people have asked. It is pointless to discuss this without talking in generalities. The fact that there may be exceptions in some individuals' thinking doesn't change the reality of what is actually happening in the market and why. Look at the top songs or TV shows or films in the UK, US or Canada for the past 10 years and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. I don't really understand your implication that I am making decisions on behalf of others rather than just describing a reality I have no control over. I can take yours and Mika's advice and start consuming foreign language entertainment but the hundreds of millions of other English speakers are going to continue doing what they've always done.

[RAK1]

I think the whole world has moved towards a monoculture and right now it happens to be English. You are right, that could change in the future. Maybe China or Islamic culture will become dominant one day. But right now English is the lingua franca of communication and entertainment because of the internet and the way English imperialism created these large wealthy countries that produce a lot of music, TV, film and books. Everyone wants to watch Game of Thrones and Star Wars and listen to Adele and Justin Bieber. To ask why English people are not constantly searching around and struggling to understand foreign entertainment is like asking why someone with a pantry full of food and a freezer full of meat is not out there gathering berries and hunting squirrels. I think English could shift to some other dominant language culture but I don't see it ever devolving so that everyone is searching out more and more languages/cultures.

I think if Mika wanted to get anyone in the UK to pay attention to him, on an outside cultural basis, if he immersed him self in Nordic noir, they would be all over him. It's pretty popular here right now. 

[Christine]

I think if Mika wanted to get anyone in the UK to pay attention to him, on an outside cultural basis, if he immersed him self in Nordic noir, they would be all over him. It's pretty popular here right now. 

Yeah I just saw Ricky Gervais tweeting about it tonight, funnily enough.

 

Ricky Gervais ‏@rickygervais 4h4 hours ago

Just finished The Bridge. Consistently the most beautiful, innovative and compelling drama on TV.

Obviously I mean the original version of The Bridge. Scandinavia are ruling the world at the moment in drama.

The Killing, The Bridge, Trapped...why can't we make drama like this? So interesting and different and brave.

I was very influenced by the pace & naturalism of Festen when was doing The Office, so maybe I accidentally created a scandinavian comedy.

[amynzis]

Oh, still on-going your conversation here... wow... looks like endless.... I can easily guess this may happen again before/after MIKA’s another UK gig soon……

I’m a newbie and not westerner. (Naturally, I have huge language barrier and my English is actually very very terrible…sorry for this in advance.) As a person who I think myself a little remote-from-this-issue, your (‘SOME’ British fans who are talking here, incl, Jemxx) saying gives me the following impression. (If these are not correct, blame me 50%..(lack of my understanding), But another 50% maybe goes to you, because it’s YOU to give that impression anyway… hahaha...Hope I can make it clear that I am not in the business of castigating people here, just want to know what happens now.)


->Mika is a British Pop musician(or just contemporary pop musician?). He started his pop music career with that background and got the fame in UK first. And we British fans hope he can get much bigger position as a British pop star (like, Adele) here or in mainstream market(such as US).

-> Unfortunately, he now seems to be affected by other countries’ cultures(such as France, Italy, etc.) so much in his music, and it definitely does not work in UK market. I do not like some of that music, either. This is real situation. We are worrying… If he really wants to sing those songs, he can do in those countries, but not in UK gig. We are British. He should sing English songs (or more British style songs) here – not the songs in other languages. 'Mika, please listen what we want!'

-> Furthermore, he seems to abandon us, in order to expand his market in other countries. It’s obvious how he can have only 1 gig in UK in 3 years (surprised, indeed.), while he was doing lots of gigs outside? And even he sang a French song here? 'Please Mika, Don’t forget where your music was born and consider the fan here more carefully'.

-> 'Mika, we are your fans who love you and support you. We spend our own money to see your gig, so we believe we can say to you what we want. Frankly speaking, we British fans are really worrying about your current position as a British pop musician. Your recent albums did not go well in UK. If you do better more here, you can be almost the 2nd Freddie Mercury, a great pop musician, not lounge singer… We are not your enemy, We are fans who give you a sincere advice, Mika, so please listen what we are saying…'




I think you guys had really good times with him under that British mood at first, and hope to hold that experience continuously. (It's very natural, or course.)   That's why you seem to have a strong image/wish to him to be a certain person… and force him to do that, which cannot be successful even by his mom. (All she wants is another son - ‘a son with a wife and a big living room.') He may not be comfortable with this situation, as he gets identity mad??? (^^ ) He may feel pressure and show some negative reactions, as it is related to his trauma??? (I don’t know…, just guessing...)

Mika is moving forward, whether you like that direction or not. But who knows? He can be a great musician through those international musical backgrounds? Also he can sing his songs with Orchestra, which other British pop stars cannot do.

Honestly, I fully understand that kind of ‘deep sense of loss (I may feel the exactly same thing, if it happens to me.)’, and believe your actions come from your deepest love to him.

But I would like to say that maybe the most important thing to him is your understanding of him. If he is accepted as he is, and cheered by you in his hometown, that can be the biggest thing to him ever, I guess. Because you are privileged. You are his home base! This is unchangeable fact. (Think about the NZ fan!)


(Hope my saying does NOT(!) make any disturbance and bother any of you… if it happens, I'll delete my post immediately...)

Edited March 16, 2016 by amynzis