Discussion - Why the fandom could be more child-friendly

[chanleon]

I can see it's difficult to reach everyone when discussing about this and I realise it's unrealistic to think this will change much. 

We were just kind of surprised by the reasoning behind the thirsting, really.

 

[holdingyourdrink]

Quintessence is that we actually all agree across all ages 😊 I’ve just realized that it’s very possible that all participants in this discussion are not the targeted audience you are referring to. Because like you say, it is most probably a small part of the fans who does this inappropriately. 

35 minutes ago, chanleon said:

I can see it's difficult to reach everyone when discussing about this and I realise it's unrealistic to think this will change much. 

We were just kind of surprised by the reasoning behind the thirsting, really.

 

I’m confused here, what is the reasoning? Other than the mere fact that Mika is a handsome man?

[chanleon]

6 minutes ago, holdingyourdrink said:

Quintessence is that we actually all agree across all ages 😊 I’ve just realized that it’s very possible that all participants in this discussion are not the targeted audience you are referring to. Because like you say, it is most probably a small part of the fans who does this inappropriately. 

I’m confused here, what is the reasoning? Other than the mere fact that Mika is a handsome man?

Yes absolutely, as always the people it's directly aimed to don't debate on it, maybe just simply because they don't know it's being discussed. It's a pity but it's fine

 

What I meant with the reasoning is that we were kind of surprised, I guess that's the word for it, that the reasoning was basically deciding for others what they like or not and saying it's younger people's incompetence of not knowing what is rude and what isn't.

 

I guess there's also a difference based on the person but I won't get into that bc that may be rude. But more than the words or emojis it's also about the context, so where the comment is posted and who is posting it.

 

 

[Susan Smith]

2 hours ago, chanleon said:

What I'm trying to get across is that sexualisation is a thing and it's not pleasant. I will not believe if you tell me Mika is happy about, for example, 60 year olds explicitly posting about their sexual desires with him.

That's not the "sexy" aspect of pop. Freddie Mercury wore tight ass outfits and performed marvellous shows. That's different compared to a thirsty comments section.

 

And this wasn't even particularly about Mika's opinion but more on the younger fans'. The difference between what Mika does on stage and a comments section is that there's clear consent in the first while many comments are uncalled for.

 

I'll specify these kind go comments often are on very normal pictures of fully dressed Mika.  

It's not the context that causes the reactions. That's why we mean these comments are often uncalled for

Chandler perfectly articulated the point I wanted to make. One concept the feminist movement is very keen to educate people on, is that someone sexualising themselves does not give YOU the right to sexualise them. You often see comments from men online like “how can women post revealing sexy pictures of themselves like this, then get mad when people objectify them?😂”. The reason is the same as why people chose to take showers but will get angry if you unexpectedly throw a bucket of water over them. There’s no crime in speaking sexually of things INTENDED to be sexual, but overly sexualising normal things is when it becomes sexualisation. Also no ones trying to police peoples thoughts, I just think it’s a matter of what might be distasteful to post online. And obviously tastes differ! Which is why we were just sharing what others find to be distasteful and uncomfortable, so that people are aware of that❤️

[Susan Smith]

I also would like to say that the people interacting in this thread are not necessarily the people this is directed at! Thank you very much for talking with us. I think partly the reason chandler started this thread is we think it would be rude for us to publicly name and shame those we think make inappropriate comments, so this discussion is a less direct way for us to challenge some issues and talk with people rather than attack them 

[chanleon]

14 minutes ago, Susan Smith said:

someone sexualising themselves does not give YOU the right to sexualise them. You often see comments from men online like “how can women post revealing sexy pictures of themselves like this, then get mad when people objectify them?😂”.

yes!! thanks for being this clear, absolutely agree

[chanleon]

11 minutes ago, Susan Smith said:

I think partly the reason chandler started this thread is we think it would be rude for us to publicly name and shame those we think make inappropriate comments

Exactly. It would be terribly rude if I started listing names even tho we all could

[chanleon]

12 minutes ago, Susan Smith said:

I also would like to say that the people interacting in this thread are not necessarily the people this is directed at! Thank you very much for talking with us. I think partly the reason chandler started this thread is we think it would be rude for us to publicly name and shame those we think make inappropriate comments, so this discussion is a less direct way for us to challenge some issues and talk with people rather than attack them 

I also started the thread bc I've seen from previous discussions (the transphobia one) that people can't debate on twitter - bc the app is not really meant for that - and on here it may be more organised to have everyone's opinion in the same thread.

 

[miknikel]

4 hours ago, mellody said:

 

I think that's a good point. Disrespectful and very explicit comments, of people of all ages, are something that I think none of us wants to see. But I don't see anything disrespectful in the 😍 smiley, for example. So maybe it's more a question of our different views on what a disrespectful or explicit comment is? I guess it might make sense that a 12 year old has different views on this than a 16 year old than a 30 or 40 year old. 

Absolutely Mellody. We don't all laugh at the same things. What one will like may seem silly or inappropriate to his neighbor. Whatever the case, humor is a precious ally to go through life. Do we not say that humor is a form of intelligence? And, thank God, Mika is not without it

[chanleon]

2 minutes ago, miknikel said:

Absolutely Mellody. We don't all laugh at the same things. What one will like may seem silly or inappropriate to his neighbor. Whatever the case, humor is a precious ally to go through life. Do we not say that humor is a form of intelligence? And, thank God, Mika is not without it

We should probably clarify again. While I'm still partially doubtful about Mika's enjoyment of the situation, this wasn't about him in the first place. We can't talk with him in fact so we can't imply we know his opinion because no we don't.

 

This was from the fans to the fans. And I don't really know if we can classify sexualisation as humor. 

But despite that, the main point is that multiple people have said that some comments make them uncomfortable and that it would be nice if people were more careful on what they say.

I'm really kind of astonished at how we can't find a common ground of saying we can all be more careful but we're debating wether or not it's funny to find sexual references in anything

[krysady]

@chanleon I totally understand your reason for opening this thread and I must admit that even if I'm not a child-teen-young person, I often find myself extremely embarrassed by some remarks and reactions I see on social media. It's not like I'm a prude person or something, but I do believe that this kind of conversation should remain private for the sake of common sense and decency. Moreover, I will never understand why the need to even tag Mika in these inappropriate discussions, and I always hope he will not notice it    Honestly, I don't know how much Mika also enjoy this explicit comments, but I have my doubts...

Anyway, I wish that everyone feeling the need to post their feelings publicly, to take a moment before that and realize that there's also kids around reading it, or if they would feel comfortable telling to Mika in his face that thing. Otherwise, there's a lot of ways to keep it private, it's so simple  

[Susan Smith]

I think we should stop reducing this to just “a difference of humour” because it’s more that that. Using an excuse like “he sexualises himself already” is a common, misogynistic victim blaming phrase often flung around so I have to dismiss that. Also, whether or not mika finds it funny, this is less about what makes HIM uncomfortable and more about what’s morally decent/ comfortable for everyone. And I do not think many of the comments I personally am talking about were made with comedic intent 

[chanleon]

14 minutes ago, krysady said:

@chanleon I totally understand your reason for opening this thread and I must admit that even if I'm not a child-teen-young person, I often find myself extremely embarrassed by some remarks and reactions I see on social media. It's not like I'm a prude person or something, but I do believe that this kind of conversation should remain private for the sake of common sense and decency. Moreover, I will never understand why the need to even tag Mika in these inappropriate discussions, and I always hope he will not notice it    Honestly, I don't know how much Mika also enjoy this explicit comments, but I have my doubts...

Anyway, I wish that everyone feeling the need to post their feelings publicly, to take a moment before that and realize that there's also kids around reading it, or if they would feel comfortable telling to Mika in his face that thing. Otherwise, there's a lot of ways to keep it private, it's so simple  

Thanks for sharing your opinion! I absolutely agree with you 100%

[Susan Smith]

16 minutes ago, krysady said:

@chanleon I totally understand your reason for opening this thread and I must admit that even if I'm not a child-teen-young person, I often find myself extremely embarrassed by some remarks and reactions I see on social media. It's not like I'm a prude person or something, but I do believe that this kind of conversation should remain private for the sake of common sense and decency. Moreover, I will never understand why the need to even tag Mika in these inappropriate discussions, and I always hope he will not notice it    Honestly, I don't know how much Mika also enjoy this explicit comments, but I have my doubts...

Anyway, I wish that everyone feeling the need to post their feelings publicly, to take a moment before that and realize that there's also kids around reading it, or if they would feel comfortable telling to Mika in his face that thing. Otherwise, there's a lot of ways to keep it private, it's so simple  

Ahh I really love this reply! It sums it up so well, and yes I can never understand why people tag him in such things 😂 a lot of the time I hope he doesn’t check his notifications 

[chanleon]

Just now, Susan Smith said:

I think we should stop reducing this to just “a difference of humour” because it’s more that that. Using an excuse like “he sexualises himself already” is a common, misogynistic victim blaming phrase often flung around so I have to dismiss that. Also, whether or not mika finds it funny, this is less about what makes HIM uncomfortable and more about what’s morally decent/ comfortable for everyone. And I do not think many of the comments I personally am talking about were made with comedic intent 

Exactly.

 

I just realised when earlier someone said "he humps things on stage it's obvious that we have the right to sexualise him if he does it already": that's exactly what people say at rape victims? "She wears a short skirt so she's asking to be sexualised". Nope. Mika can hump all the bear costume wearing people in the world and it's still going to be uncomfortable for us and possibly Mika himself that people comment explicit sexual remarks. 

[Susan Smith]

3 minutes ago, chanleon said:

Exactly.

 

I just realised when earlier someone said "he humps things on stage it's obvious that we have the right to sexualise him if he does it already": that's exactly what people say at rape victims? "She wears a short skirt so she's asking to be sexualised". Nope. Mika can hump all the bear costume wearing people in the world and it's still going to be uncomfortable for us and possibly Mika himself that people comment explicit sexual remarks. 

It reminds me of this comment I responded to on Tiktok: 

[chanleon]

Just now, Susan Smith said:

It reminds me of this comment I responded to on Tiktok: 

if you don't want to be sexualised just act heterosexually and cover yourself up haha 🧚🏼‍♂️

[XaviMarc]

I personally don't view MIKA in a sexual way at all so it's a bit cringe when I see comments like that. But at most I just won't read them and I'll literally forget about them. But to make a whole thread about it is cringe in itself. 

 

I see absolutely no need to condemn them for having a bit of fun on there it was a funny moment. Let them react how they want. You mention 11 year olds, but on Instagram the age limit is 13 so if they are 11 they shouldn't be on there anyway. Plus there is much worse on Instagram for children to find than those comments. 

 

We find what old people do cringe and they find what we do cringe. Just the way life is. Have a nice day. 

[mellody]

2 hours ago, Susan Smith said:

Chandler perfectly articulated the point I wanted to make. One concept the feminist movement is very keen to educate people on, is that someone sexualising themselves does not give YOU the right to sexualise them. You often see comments from men online like “how can women post revealing sexy pictures of themselves like this, then get mad when people objectify them?😂”. The reason is the same as why people chose to take showers but will get angry if you unexpectedly throw a bucket of water over them. There’s no crime in speaking sexually of things INTENDED to be sexual, but overly sexualising normal things is when it becomes sexualisation. Also no ones trying to police peoples thoughts, I just think it’s a matter of what might be distasteful to post online. And obviously tastes differ! Which is why we were just sharing what others find to be distasteful and uncomfortable, so that people are aware of that❤️

 

I agree with you on that. And sorry Chandler if it came across to you as if I meant this with my comment about Mika humping things on stage. It's not what I mean. I can elaborate on this more tonight, when I have more time.

 

What I'm still trying to figure out in this discussion is what comments we're talking about here. It's a HUGE difference to me whether someone comments a pic of Mika with "😍" than saying "the things I'd do to him". No matter if they're 16 or 60. I thought with this thread Chandler might also be referring to my Tweets about the video of Mika opening his jacket to show his abs. But maybe that's a misinterpretation by me? I definitely don't want to defend any comments that are saying "Mika I want to f*** you" in some way.

 

As I said, I'll post more tonight, am busy now.

[holdingyourdrink]

Maybe a bit off topic, but can I just say that it makes me happy there is a younger generation out there that is aware of these things? That in an uncensored world that is social media there is somewhat of an etiquette being established, slowly but surely. This is of course everyone’s job as human beings, not just the younger generation. But as a mother I don’t want my children to be blatantly unaware. And I’m happy to see that those who grow up with social media, aren’t blatantly unaware.

It still makes me anxious when I think of my children joining social media one day, but I have a little bit more faith in humanity now. 
 

From the parent’s perspective: it is my job to be an example, not only to my own children but all children/people. And it will also be my job to teach my children how to filter social media themselves. How to not only have morals and values outside but also on social media. I think this is a general ground we all agree on, regardless of age. 

[miknikel]

Sorry for the huge print that appeared and makes my reaction look aggressive. It was not intentional. Error of manipulation. Chanleon, I too would like to correct one thing, my answer was addressed only to Mellody's post and spoke about publication in general. The sexualization of anyone is not a subject that amuses me either, even if I don't go back on what I wrote first. I'm aware that I've gone a bit beyond the subject, but I just thought that your thread could also give us an opportunity to discuss this aspect. But maybe I shouldn't have mixed it all up.

 

[chanleon]

2 hours ago, mellody said:

 

I agree with you on that. And sorry Chandler if it came across to you as if I meant this with my comment about Mika humping things on stage. It's not what I mean. I can elaborate on this more tonight, when I have more time.

 

What I'm still trying to figure out in this discussion is what comments we're talking about here. It's a HUGE difference to me whether someone comments a pic of Mika with "😍" than saying "the things I'd do to him". No matter if they're 16 or 60. I thought with this thread Chandler might also be referring to my Tweets about the video of Mika opening his jacket to show his abs. But maybe that's a misinterpretation by me? I definitely don't want to defend any comments that are saying "Mika I want to f*** you" in some way.

 

As I said, I'll post more tonight, am busy now.

Hi! Sorry if I was unclear in any way.

There obviously is a wide range of comments and obviously and thankfully we're referring to a minority.

I actually meant to agree on the difference between an emoji and an explicit comment, that was badly explained from my side.

For the rest the post you quoted is still something I agree with, saying 

2 hours ago, mellody said:

that someone sexualising themselves does not give YOU the right to sexualise them.

 

Also, I really didn't mean to make you feel targeted, I did not refer to any of your posts in particular.

There are indeed some comments like the one you mentioned and censored yes, but there's not really something on your accounts that I wanted to criticise!  I hope I was a bit more clear

[chanleon]

33 minutes ago, miknikel said:

Sorry for the huge print that appeared and makes my reaction look aggressive. It was not intentional. Error of manipulation. Chanleon, I too would like to correct one thing, my answer was addressed only to Mellody's post and spoke about publication in general. The sexualization of anyone is not a subject that amuses me either, even if I don't go back on what I wrote first. I'm aware that I've gone a bit beyond the subject, but I just thought that your thread could also give us an opportunity to discuss this aspect. But maybe I shouldn't have mixed it all up.

 

Sorry then! I got that wrong and thought we were still talking of the original topic. No problem!

[chanleon]

2 hours ago, XaviMarc said:

I personally don't view MIKA in a sexual way at all so it's a bit cringe when I see comments like that. But at most I just won't read them and I'll literally forget about them. But to make a whole thread about it is cringe in itself. 

 

I see absolutely no need to condemn them for having a bit of fun on there it was a funny moment. Let them react how they want. You mention 11 year olds, but on Instagram the age limit is 13 so if they are 11 they shouldn't be on there anyway. Plus there is much worse on Instagram for children to find than those comments. 

 

We find what old people do cringe and they find what we do cringe. Just the way life is. Have a nice day. 

Okay I'll try to be as clear and concise as possible.

 

1. Sexualising is not fun. Sexualising considered in the sense of treating a person like an object for own (sexual) pleasure. 

2. Freedom of speech (you should be able to react how you want) has a limit and that is when it makes someone uncomfortable, when it attacks someone else's freedom etc.

 For example, I may have the right to comment whatever I want, but people also have the right to stay on social medias in peace. We're talking about comments or behaviours that are totally uncalled for. 

Ignoring is, therefore, not the solution: why don't we just ignore white supremacy or other issues? It sounds like saying "I won't care til it affects me directly" and I don't really agree with that mentality.

3. The limit for users on IG is 13. It has never really been respected, yes. But hey! 13 year olds are minors just like 11 year olds. Literally nothing changes. And I fear a 13 year old does not appreciate people the age of their parents' commenting "I'd want to f*** you" under posts of their favourite artist. Saying that there's worse things doesn't make this better.

 

My main idea is that saying "just ignore it and grow up" isn't the way you tackle things. I mean, Trump is cringe lately, that's how he is! 

I'm making exaggerated examples but it's sounding similarly to the ones related to this topc, so I hope I'm getting the point across.

 

I don't think making this thread is "cringe". I think it's plain disgusting that people are so frustrated about their lives that they live their sexual fantasies publicly, online, in a community of all ages, with a guy that never consented and -sorry ladies- never will.

 

 

[krysady]

2 hours ago, XaviMarc said:

I see absolutely no need to condemn them for having a bit of fun on there it was a funny moment.

But I'm sure that no one is having a problem with funny comments, that would be silly   It's about the obscenity expressed in public, and that can be even more disturbing when it comes from some adults' part. For sure talking here won't stop it or change much, but I think it's good that we can try to discuss about this topic and hear more opinions.