Pascale

You know I don't see the problem, he does so many gigs in France where he presumably sings more French songs and talks in French. If people love the French songs so much, just go to a French gig. There are plenty to choose from and those gigs would be nearer for most of the people who want to hear  French songs.

One gig in the UK in 3 or 4 years? It really is not too much to ask for him to sing and speak in English.

 

It may be, in your view, the special nature of his fans, but the majority of a UK audience are just not interested , they want to hear songs they are familiar with or barring that at least ones they can understand.

 

YOU don't understand how "fans" can criticize. I don't understand how "fans" unconditionally accept everything a performer does, good or bad and make excuses for them. 

We don't know if it's the majority, you're just assuming that.

 

That's why I have a problem with your point of view in this discussion. It's certain that there are some fans (could be the majority) that would prefer if Mika would only sing English songs. But it's also certain that there are also fans that like (some) French songs and that would like him to sing for example BBB or LMD.

And then we have a big group that doesn't really care and just want to have an good evening in total.

 

Of course you're  have the right to let Mika know that you don't like to hear the French songs just as well as other people have the right to do requests. But it's a request, he can choose not to follow that up. And some of you seem so angry and disappointed if he doesn't follow your request that I have the feeling you almost find it obligatory that he does.That last part is what people have a problem with here, I think. Not with your wishes or disappointments. 

 

I could just as well say: It really is not too much to ask for you to listen to only one song in French.

 

It's not that Mika doesn't give a s**t about your wishes. He reduced the amount of French songs. He chose to do BBB which is a song that is a big succes at most concerts, so he might have expected that it would win over the Frenchosceptics (like, I believe EMD did for some of them). He feels nervous about singing in London, so he does care about what you are thinking. (if the French dilemma is one of the things that he was nervous about of course but I'm almost sure of that)

 

Last but not least, Mika really likes singing BBB, he likes to be free in his song choice and he likes to show his French side in England. His wishes count as well, just as much as your wishes. Of course you pay for the tickets but you also want to see a happy artist on the scene, that doesn't feel pressured, don't you?

 

However we are running in circles, all the arguments have been said. It's a bit like a quarrel between two lovers (Mika and the old fans/Frenchosceptics), both of you have a point and none of you wants to give in. And now the fight has become rather ugly (because of the comments in the interview and the sad results of that for Jemma).

 

Hopefully, now Mika has shown how he feels about the gig incident and about his uncomfort about the dislike of the French songs and now everything's on the table, there will be a change in the deadlock that seems to haven been there for a long time.

If so, I only regret that that had to be done at the expense of Jemma's well being. I absolutely think she didn't deserve that and I can very well understand the anger about Mika's comments.

I think this may be the crux of the matter and sort of a vicious circle: Mika feels (at least on some level) rejected by the UK and much more warmly embraced by France (plus some other countries). This has led to him embracing the French part of his identity even more. Unfortunately, the UK fans in turn feel rejected by him and want "the British Mika" back, while he seems to think along the lines of "if you want me, you have to accept all of me, even the French part, because this is who I am". So he sings a French song in London and when someone expresses disapproval, he doesn't see this just a criticism of his setlist, but as a rejection of him personally. At least that's my opinion on why he reacted so strongly to something seemingly insignificant.

I agree 100% as well. Wow, that's new. We all agree about something.   

Oh I definitely didn't write my post to remind anyone! Sorry if it sounded like that. It was more to describe how I try to choose my own words and just some thoughts that came to my mind this morning when I read the long discussion from yesterday/this morning. I feel more comfortable if I try to write things I could tell the person face to face even I know this forum is only for fans. It makes things easier and simple.

 

Well, whom the cap fits, let him wear it (i hope this is proper English, i used the dictionary but i've never heard the expression in English)

And I wore it  .

 

This is exactly the point I've been trying to make. I would never use the word bullying because it has been so overused, but there is a clear imbalance of power here. It is offensive to me that anyone is suggesting that we should be worrying more about Mika's feelings than the fan he has thrown under a bus on television. I get that he can also feel vulnerable on stage but come on. It is 5 seconds of his life and you can tell from the video that it was not any sort of public humiliation for him at all. You can't even tell anything happened. The consequences he has faced for what Jemma said are non-existent. But she is being harassed and hurt 6 months later because of what he's done. I can't believe any of this even needs to be said. People are so blind by their adoration of a stranger they can't see sense.

It's not just 5 seconds of his life. If we believe him, the impact on him was at least during a big part of the concert. And the thing might even have a bigger impact on him now. I don't know about that, no idea how things and discussions on internet effect him. But it's not as if he is bullet proof because he is a famous idol and as if there will be no consequences for him as well.

He may have been overreacting at the concert to the shouting and it sure wasn't right to talk about Jemma like that. But that doesn't mean he is responsable for all the hatred she is getting now. I blame the people that harass her for that, not Mika. And maybe all of us because we keep talking about it.    

I didn't know where to start quoting so just a few thoughts."Baby" is hardly the worst word he has heard. I guess it depends on how you say it? In real life discussions I sometimes say "you're such a baby!" in a very joking tone but to be honest I find telling people that they are acting in a childish/not mature way or simply can't handle things like an adult quite harsh. I wouldn't tell even to my own son that he is acting like a baby (even if it was literally true) because it sounds patronizing, I rather simply say "now you need to take responsibility about X"  because it's a fact (not that anyone likes that either).

 

A guide line I try to follow is to write things and words I could tell Mika face to face. Not because I think he ever reads or hears my words but because it helps me to keep things on an honest but still polite level. In real life I wouldn't talk to him in a flattering way, it would sound totally fake. And I don't know him on a personal level, we talk only rarely and it's always very short but I see him often so I feel some weird familiarity (meaning sometimes random things come out of my mouth). I always wish I could give him a polite and smart comment about his music or shows but in reality we talk maybe 5 words once a year and it's always a very weird short conversation.  I don't have much conversation skills and Finnish people are famous for not knowing small talk   It's a national shame!

 

So I just try to estimate what I could say face to face to him or to anyone I'm talking about and about this episode I wouldn't say he is a liar or being unprofessional or victimizing himself or acting like a baby. I don't think any of that. I would say he seemed hurt. Hurt either by that separate situation and the comment coming in the middle of his performance or by the whole issue and the whole thought of that not accepting his French side means not accepting him as a person. I would also say that maybe because he felt hurt he wasn't careful enough when he spoke in the interview or he simply didn't think it all through. I mean something went wrong. Just look around, there's a war zone. 

 

It's difficult to keep the balance between being honest and showing true feelings and still remembering someone's position and the impact their words can have. If this was about that particular comment he could have handled it privately or at least give a little background if the comment hurt him especially coming from a fan/fans who has been there since the beginning. And if it was more about feeling hurt because of the whole issue... Why not openly talk about it without naming anyone. We all want to hear him telling how he feels.  

 

About Mika not being the same as he was years ago. I've never thought he has changed as a person. I rather think he is different because he is older and that he probably sees the world differently than he used to see because of everything he has experienced and been through. Success, disappointments, pressure, money, the way people treat him as a celebrity and so many other things. His life style is very different than ours. I feel happier if I try to enjoy things how they are instead thinking how they used to be or could be in another reality. He speaks French on my left and Italian on my right and tells me to learn the f*cking language. It is what it is. I love spending time in France and Italy. I love many things happening at the moment. Symphony concerts, the latest album, the new mature tone in his voice, his charity work, his new way to go really close to the audience during concerts, watching and reading so many new interviews...

 

I just want to add that even I wouldn't say something or use some particular words myself it doesn't have to mean they are automatically rude coming from someone else. It all depends on personality and style and if the words "fit" in someone's mouth or not. I'm sure Mika thinks the same. And I think it's very hard to take criticism. I already have a negative image of myself and if someone criticize me it always feels just one more thing I can't do right or well and it's very heavy to handle. So if I give feedback to someone else I try to do it kindly, it doesn't mean not being honest. Maybe people giving very direct feedback can also handle feedback more easily when it's their turn? 

 

Sorry my post is so long, I don't usually write much these days. I'm obviously procrastinating some other things 

thank you Nina, for this post and for remembering me of some ethics. You are right: patronizing is not a nice or respectful thing to do

Sorry, sometimes writing on a forum doesn't bring out the best of me. I hope that I would dare to say everything to Mika in his face. But even if I might, saying things to someone is not the same as saying things about someone.  

I'll be more careful.   

People can think now... oh, poor Mika. Even I think about it sometimes.

 

But no. The best would be that Mika could think on this. On why this can happen. What is the heart of this matter. 

What it´s going to happen is that Mika will continue with his life. 

 

However, the fan will be able to be pointed at for other fans and feel uncomfortable. Just because Mika did this anecdote public. And that´s all.

 

I don't think poor Mika.

But I'm pretty sure he will be quite uncomfortable as well next gig in the Palladium (if he is aware of any of this of course). And he is on stage.

Please read the edited post with the quote and consider if people speaking proper English would need to apologize from others apparently also living in an English speaking country for using words that are outside a basic / beginner's vocabulary.

 

?? Sorry, Not speaking proper English well enough to understand your last edit.

Please read the edited post.

 

?

Edit. Oh, I see now. doesn't make a lot of difference.

Well, I did not mock anyone, I just asked how you define the 'we' you are talking in the name of. So it is that group then, I see. Thank you.

No, you didn't just do that.

 

I am going to not get involved in the discussion for a change. I know, weird right?

 

Anyway, I am amazed how this escalated into a "this fan and several other MFCers are xenophobes and intolerant" discussion -> see twitter.

And I am amazed Mika did not make such a big deal out of us not being too kind to him about XFactor and the Voice. I genuinely wonder why this incident has had such an impact on him.

 

And now I shall retreat back to my cave.

I think the big difference is that the people that have problems with his being in the Voice of X-factor are not in the audience when he is doing those shows and confronting him with their criticism when he is performing.

 

It has been said here that Mika has all the power in this situation and this might be true for him being able to express his views about a person without that person being able to explain of defend herself . (although Jemma did a very good and brave job posting a video on YouTube). But fans or concert-visitors have power too, especially combined as a group and they can (ab)use that power to unsettle an artist whether or not they mean to. 

 

In the introduction of Boum Boum Boum Mika said that he was more nervous for this gig than ....(can't hear what he said). He also said that he would explain why he was so nervous but I don't think he ever did.

I don't think Mika is a defenseless child. As some of you said he has been very capable of talking back to people and doesn't seem shy to express his opinion to people. But he is also a sensitive and intense performer and I believe the atmosphere in a gig is very important to him.

I've always found it wonderful to see his happiness an joy when things are going well and people love and sing and enjoy with him during a gig, like at the end of the French Grace Kelly song in Paris https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xuow-2cyew or at the Korean concert in Seoul last month.

 

The downside is that it probably makes him nervous when he is uncertain about the crowd's emotions. It's not the same performing in front of critical people as hearing or reading criticism through others or at the internet. Performing in England (London) seems to make him more nervous nowadays than performing elsewhere, perhaps that's even why he isn't doing that a lot lately (don't bite me, i'm only suggesting that it might be so). I don't know why. Perhaps because his roots are in England. Although he has said that he is from a lot of places, he lives in London and has spent an important period of his life there. Also his career started there. He did a lot of touring in England and I think in the beginning most of the fans were English. So logically and obviously, there are a lot of expectations of some of the English fans. Maybe those expectations weigh heavily on him. He said that he hates pressure earlier..

 

People are saying that he should be able to deal with criticism, act as a professional (meaning not complaining about this in public) and that he needs to grow up. Perhaps he should. It would certainly make life easier for him. But isn't the happy vulnerable child in him something that we love as well? I would hate it  when that child disappears or if he just did routine concerts, not caring about how his public is reacting. Or if he would hide all of his feelings to avoid discussion. Yeah i know there's something between not caring and sucking up  and between hiding your feelings and offending people but its not always easy to be perfect. 

 

Like I said I don't think Mika is defenseless and I don't think he needs others to defend him. Especially not when they do that by attacking people that -as they believe- hurt Mika. But I do think he is vulnerable on stage and can be upset and hurt if he doesn't feel the connection with the crowd. And apparently in London he didn't (for a part of the concert).

I don't know how heavy this upset feeling is. After all he is an experienced performer. He didn't show his feelings at the concert itself and he might have been exaggerating them for the sake of the story although he sure looked upset and angry talking about the incident. However even if he was indeed very hurt and upset by the incident, then I still don't think it was appropriate that he blames the fan for all of his upset feelings. It was a rather innocent comment and it's not Jemma's fault if he finds it difficult to cope with the expectations of the English fans. If he can't handle (anymore) such comments as the one that was made at that gig, then he's going to have a very difficult life as a performer. And no dedicated fan wil be able to protect him from that.,

 

But please let's not make too much out of this. He was upset, he reacted impulsively at the question in the interview. After all a lot of people have been wishing that he would show more of his true feelings nowadays instead of giving the "right" and safe anwers . Well. he did. Admittedly, not in a good or sensible way (at least, that's what I think) But just as well as I feel that there's no need to fall over Jemma because of her shouting, i don't think it's necessary to fall over Mika because of what he said in the interview. 

 

I feel sorry for Jemma because of his harsh words, it must be very painful to hear your idol say things about you like that. I don't think she deserved those strong words based on what I saw and heard about her. But in the end of the day that's between her and Mika.

 

The issue of the French songs is something else. But my post is already way too long   and most things have already been said about that. I hope Mika and the "no French-songs- in-England"fans will find a solution for it. 

When Mika said "not everyone will understand"when talking about BBB I shouted out "That's because it's in ####ing French". I meant it in jest, not malicious. Yes I was angry. Yes I had a couple of drinks before the show. Should I have not been so emotional about a subject we had been talking about since 2012? I wasn't abusive. I heckled him a bit. I've known him a long time. He knows what I'm like.

I wasn't intolerant. I wasn't bullying him.

I've given my side of the story in my video. What has really hurt me is the FANS (some of them from this fan club) on Twitter calling me a rude cow, bitch, ****, pig etc and the "Mika can sing what he wants campaign". If he had a Japanese song would you like to here that instead of WAG in Germany for example?

Now trolls leave me alone.

I'm very shocked and sorry to hear that. I think it's great that you posted your reaction on youtube and explained your side of the story. I don't agree with everything you say but it's ridiculous to harrass you for one comment.

Mika should have realized that this could happen after what he said about this fan/you. Stupid of him

I don't think he felt unsure about it at all, as he said that he KNEW how some British fans felt about the French songs but that he was going to sing them anyway. He even said at the beginning of the gig that it felt good to be speaking English and then he goes and sings a French song, so like... ???????

 

As I said, save the French songs for the French speaking audience who will appreciate them more. What Jemma said wasn't even harsh and vindictive like Mika was saying in that video, he way overstepped the mark and exaggerated everything, as he typically does. It's not like she actually insulted him or punched him in the face, Mika said "Not many people understand Boum Boum Boum" and all Jemma said "that's because it's in f*cking French".

 

WHICH IS TRUE OH MY GOD. Seriously you people need to take a goddamn seat.

You can be unsure about doing something even if you 've made the decision to do it anyway. Listening to feed-back doesn't mean that you have to do what the other person likes.

But of course i don't really know if he was unsure. He can also be very strong opiniated about this subject and feel that it is very intolerant of people to be mad or disappointed about him singing french songs.

I don't understand myself why this is such a problem although it is explained lots of time here.

But you don't understand why he can't do one concert in London without French songs so I guess we are even.

 

There was an interesting answer of Mika in the Asian thread (written interview)

He said he doesn't like pressure, he runs from it. It was in the context of people putting pressure on him for the sake of money but still.

I think it's also very important to him not to feel pressure in choosing the songs he likes and being the performer he wants to be.

 

Having said that, I agree his reaction on the shouting is out of proportion.

 

To be honest, I feel quite deflated after all this. I can't believe that he has pulled such a low move, and especially I feel quite upset that he now seems to have such a low threshold to feedback...it's like he has turned into a completely different person to the one he was a few years ago. Not that long ago, he was the singer who was still happy to ask his fans for honest feedback. What happened there, when did he turn this corner?

 

To put things into perspective, and perhaps explain to those who seem to think that some of us are "unappreciative" and mean fans, in order to show the differences with the man that he (seemed to) be before, there is a story that I remember well.

 

There was a moment after a gig a few years ago...It was the first of a new tour, and he had not come out to see fans that night after the gig. Still, he was clearly worried about how things had gone at the gig that evening because he specifically got in contact afterwards to ask a few of us (who he had known for a long time to be "straight talking" big fans of his) to go and meet him. He asked what we had thought of the gig, because he was a bit concerned that maybe it wasn't good enough, and things had gone wrong, etc.

We gave him our opinion, honest, straight, as he was asking for. And he took it for what it was. We mentioned what we thought were the good things and what we thought could be bettered, and he was happy to hear it all.

This was such a lovely moment for us, where we felt a great connection with him and like he was the nice and down to earth guy that we had known for a few years by that time, far removed from the diva that this video seems to show me. It was great to see that side of him where he seeked the reassurance of his fans because he felt a bit unsure. It was lovely to have him also "choose" us for that, just a handful of us who he knew he could ask sincerely.

 

So yes, back in the day, he was actively seeking fans' opinions and feedback, and this occasion was a very clear an example of that, which is why it makes me laugh when some fans say that we should not share our opinions with Mika...err he has ASKED us for them before, what is different now? Has he really lost the ability to cope because people around him only give him praise? If so, that is really sad.

I think there is a difference between hearing feedback (when you ask for it) at a chosen moment and hearing a loud critical comment while you're in the middle of a concert. Of course as a professional artist it would be best as you can cope with that and just go on with your show without it letting bother you. But apparently Mika was upset about Jemma's shouting (if that's what he was refering to). He was professional enough to go on without anyone noticing that, but it díd bother him a lot since he has mentioned it twice now and in a way that we are not used of him.

 

I don't like the way that he has spoken about it, especially not if Jemma only shouted " that's because it's in french" but I understand very well that loud comments from the crowd can put you out of balance. And I guess it was more than just that particular shout. He certainly knows about the dislike of the french songs of some British fans and it's very well possible he felt unsure about this thing at the Adelphi. The shout may have triggered this uncertainty so that's why he is so harsh about it.

He feels the french songs are part of him and wants to feel free in his performances. And he doesn't feel free now. That must be very upsetting for a performer like him. That has nothing to do with not being able to receive feed-back.

now we know he was upset about being told off by a fan not to sing French songs . HURTS should be heard by anyone who thinks words are not hurtful

 

It's sad to hear that he was hurt by the comment in the Adelphi. But I guess his words will be very painful for the fan in question also. Maybe we should leave it between the two of them? By the way your words could hurt as well.

To be totally honest, my perception was that Ben Stiller was totally caught off-guard by the question. I'm sure he was expecting lots of questions about Zoolander and possibly some about his personal life, but for a random Mika fan to pop in with a question about what he probably thought was a throw-away cameo? I'm sure he wasn't expecting that sort of question at all! So I don't think his reply was ironic or nasty or nice at all... I think he was basically trying to come up with AN answer of any kind at all that wouldn't seem totally ignorant of what he'd been asked. Just the way I saw it.

:

Very plausible explanation. He was definitely searching for things to say. Still, even if you're just saying anything because you have to answer the question, you pick certain words and there are undertones. To me in this fragment it was sympathy mixed with some irony. But since there's only said a few sentences in a vague and unreliable context (pers event), this doesn't say much. If there's indeed irony, it could be about Mika but just as well about the character Zoolander, about Ben Stiller himself, about the question or about the absurdity of life in general.

Little update guys: I'm halfway done with the translation of the second show. I'll give you a link like I did the first time when it's done!

if you continue to be so wonderfully wonderful, i promise i'll continue to be eternally grateful.

Yes, I say it is denial because he literally says he doesn't likes fashion and tries to reframe it as something else (art). To me this is insecurity about what people think and an attempt to stay consistent with his 2007 image of someone who has his own style and is not obsessed with labels and the pretentious world of fashion. If he said "I love fashion, it's very important to me." it would be a different story. This is what I mean when I say he doesn't completely own it.

 

And it is the same with the TV shows. All of the illogical and contortionist explanations he came up with to convince people why doing reality TV is not a betrayal of the artist who wrote Grace Kelly were not about his enthusiasm for working on TV. It is not like saying that his new book is going to be really special or that some photographer who shot is album cover is best in the world.

 

 

When Mika says he doesn’t like fashion I guess he means he doesn’t like to wear/design things because they are ín fashion i.e. because other people put pressure on you to wear/design them. And perhaps he also means that he doesn’t connect with many commercial and pretentious things that are going on in the fashion industry. I suppose that ‘artistic’ designers in his eyes are people that create entirely out of their own spirit (of course influenced by other artist) and not because they want to be famous, loved of rich. So those designers create art which he loves and the rest create fashion which he doesn’t like.

 

I don’t think that’s denial but I do find this separation between fashion/art a bit artificial and pretentious. There are many artistic elements in fashion and he would make it easier on himself if he would use a broader definition of fashion (including the artistic parts), embrace the good things and reject or explain what parts he doesn’t like.

 

About the inconsistency: he is still very much interested in having his own style (if he’s successful is another discussion) and he still encourages others to create their own style. He has been quite consistent in this view, I believe. Although I am a fairly recent fan (2014), so I don’t know for sure. I don’t think he’s obsessed with labels or the fashion world , he’s obsessed with "Creativity" and "Excellence".

 

But you are right, there is an element of insecurity in his distancing himself of the main fashion industry (as there is in the emphasizing of the specialty of all his projects and co-workers). I think his insecurity is not about what other people think about him in general but about what he thinks of himself, judged by his own high standards and positively or negatively confirmed by what the people that he values think. (the “good guys” and the “geniuses”).

 

I'm not sure what you mean by careful because this guy is not. He is a writer (not a politician) but his politics are very conservative. His audience are not exactly the type to support gay rights but he pre-empts all the gay slurs by calling his tour the Dangerous Faggot Tour, for example. If you genuinely own it and show people you don't care what they think then they are not going to see this as a personal vulnerability in which to attack you in lieu of engaging with you on the basis of your work alone. People criticize and protest him for his politics not because of his vanity or his sexuality. He is just using his vanity and sexuality to get attention for his political views.

Sorry, I missed the “writer” part. What I mean by careful is that when you use self-mockery or irony, in a way you are (pre)defending yourself against the opinions of others. Or at the very least you are thinking about them which makes you less free. Yeah, you are disarming some possible hostile missiles but you are being influenced by attackers even before they have done anything.

 

In the writer's case though it is probably very useful, because, as you describe it, he separates his personal life from his writing and builds a fence of self-mockery around his person so they can’t use that to attack his political views. Even better, he gets attention by doing it

Well yes, no human being is really Zoolander. As you said earlier he is a total caricature. But IMO Mika is in denial about how vacuous his interest in designer clothes and shoes and the whole world around them comes across. He makes nonsensical claims that he is not interested in fashion and tries to portray the people who make his clothes as brilliant artists (as opposed to other designers, even other designers at Valentino, who we all know are directly responsible for the exploitative and shallow world portrayed in Zoolander). This is another area, like starring in reality TV, that Mika doesn't completely own up to, since he tries to convince himself and others that it is as noble an artistic pursuit as his music.

 

I follow a gay political writer on Twitter who is obsessed with his image. He tweeted a pic of himself the other day and said "I just checked my privilege and it's fabulous". This embracing and exaggeration of one's own vanity is how you make yourself impervious to mocking by others. Not trying to disguise vanity as some sort of artistic endeavour.

I can't understand myself why Mika is making this big difference between the two Valentino designers of his clothes and other designers. I'm not very impressed by their designs of his suits. They don't seem very original of innovating to me, mostly just using different prints at the same kind of suits that most men are wearing. I would expect more daring use of fabric or forms from such artistic wonderboys. But since I am not a dedicated follower of fashion, I'm not so involved in this subject. The clothes are colorful, he loves them and he thinks they are very artistic and special. Well, maybe they are, I’ll give it the benefit of the doubt.

 

But it's not only about the clothes. According to his public comments, Mika thinks most things he does and people he works with are awesome. He often talks extremely positive about them. He seems very happy with his songs, he talks proudly about most clips and directors. He's writing a book that according to his own words is going to be very special. His stage designers are brilliant, Peter Lindbergh is an exceptional photographer, X-factor is a different and far more creative talent show than all the others  (except the Voice France  ) . etc.etc. Even Paul de Leeuw is not only a friend but a genius. In general he seems very convinced about his taste and about the things he loves like certain songs or books of other artists. Words as brilliant of amazing are frequently used. 

 

I admire this (apparent) great belief in himself and in the things he loves. You may call it pretentious, vain or self-absorbed (I know I've used those words myself    ) but you may just as well call it self-assured or strong. A matter of opinion. You could say that he nowadays is lost in an empty and vain world of fashion, social media and tv and drifted away from true artistry. You could also say that his curiosity and firm beliefs motivate him to explore all kinds of new and exiting things (tv work/ symphonic orchestra project/ writing a book/ new ideas or designs for his show).

 

We can argue about the artistic level of his recent products and projects. That has been done more than once (as well as about his former ones). He doesn't seem to care a lot about that or how things come across. Is that denial?  You might as well say it shows character. Yes, people can and do ridicule him and criticize him. Perhaps he even may look back one day and will think differently then about some of the things he is doing and loving now. Does that mean that he is deceiving himself (or others) now? I think I understand your feelings (and share them sometimes) but I’m not so sure as you seem to be about the answer to that question.

 

And no, he is not impervious to mocking but neither is the gay politician, I think.  Awareness, irony or self-mockery/criticism don’t make you invulnerable. They probably make you more self-conscious and careful and that is not necessarily a  good thing for an artist.

He did not create a character based on Mika. The first Zoolander film came out in 2001. And I doubt Ben Stiller is the one who invited Mika. And he did remember Mika. Ben Stiller is a comedy actor but that doesn't mean he is always super excited and out there. Look at this interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVq8Pw_D-88

 

I still believe you are reading too much into this whole thing. I am sure Ben Stiller did not intent to be 'rude'.

 

Thanks for posting the interview. It shows that Ben Stiller has a almost permanent ironic expression on his face when he talks about Zoolander and the selfie culture. So, maybe too much reading into his ironic remarks about Mika. Although I can't help thinking that his words about Derek Zoolander "He's a sweet guy, he's a sweet innocent guy who really is incredibly self absorbed but he's not really aware of it." combine perfectly with his earlier remarks about Mika.

Yes I watched it again and I am not seeing it. If I understand the French correctly (?), someone asked if he found Mika shy or eccentric and Ben Stiller said "no, I love Mika, he's an incredible artist". What could he possibly have said that is more positive than that?

It's not about the words, it's about the way he says them. I think his first sentence was genuinely meant positive but going on, he seemed more and more amused by the resemblance between Zoolander and Mika and his remarks were kind of ironic and ambiguous. That's not a bad or rude thing. As you say he seems very fond of this character he created and he recognizes that we,being human, all have a Zoolander in ourselves.

But to me it still is (mild) mockery and not mere praising and positive commentary. Not that there' s anything wrong with that. I love friendly teasing and irony as long as it isn't mean and doesn't become too easy and cynical.

 

By the way, I don't think Mika is like Zoolander. He's much more complicated and less naive. But there's a sweet innocent self absorbed little Zoolander in him like in most of us. And I prefer to think that he ís aware of that but he is not afraid to show it.

Yes, it is all fine now. At least it is for me. Although I can't take credit for being in the subtitles team cause I am not XD

 

I guess I don't come on MFC as much any more because I've felt like I couldn't say anything without being labelled as a b*tch or a bully. I prefer to think that I am passionate, more than hostile. But for years MFC had been my home, but I don't really feel like I belong here anymore. Maybe my personality isn't fit for this MFC and I know that people say bad things about me behind my back. If that makes them feel better about themselves, then fine. I just come back now and then to remember the times when I did feel like I belonged here. When I felt like I could take part in a conversation without constantly having to defend myself.

 

But that's ok. You live and you learn and I cherish the good things and friendships that I've found on MFC.

I like your "passionate" and straight comments, Ingrid, although it's not my style. And I love the way you and Yang got out of the groups. No defending necessary there..

I find it interesting but also a bit disappointing that discussions on this forum often end up in a discussion about two groups (the "Mika is perfect" group and the "I don't like some things Mika does but I'm not allowed to say that" group).  

 

I don’t feel that I belong of any of those two sides and I have the feeling there a lot more fans like me. But somehow when you take part in a discussion you’re likely to end up in any of those groups. I therefore usually choose the “save way” (quoting Elwendin). Not just because I ám a bit scared to get into fiery confrontations but also because I hope to avoid the group forming process and to have a more constructive discussion. Admittedly, this is certainly way less funny and straightforward. Sorry, it’s a catch 22 and I’m a bit of a lengthy “there’s something to say for both opinions” writer anyway.

 

So back to the topic if anyone is still interested: Ben Stiller and his remarks.

Firstly I don't think Mika is perfect at all (love him for not being that) and I don’t care about what Ben Stiller thinks of Mika. But I like watching interviews and guessing what is going on behind the “actual talking”. And this interview is great to do so because of the mixed body language and ambiguous use of words.

 

I got the feeling that Ben’s remarks were not just nice but a bit mocking as well. He said positive things but (as Yang said) they didn’t sound entirely sincere but as if he was making fun of Mika as well. For example: His music is very inspiring to me in the Zoolander world” . His eyes were laughing a lot during this remark. This is very subjective of course but apparently there are more people having this feeling.   

 

Also I’m not so sure whether having the Zoolander DNA is a very positive thing in the eyes of Ben Stiller. Isn’t Zoolander a character that is a more than willing part of a very superficial one-dimensional world? A parody and a caricature. Words as “good looking” and “talented”  suddenly sound very suspicious in that context.

 

Maybe this impression is not correct and Ben Stiller meant everything he said in a unambiguously nice and positive way. Probably it is a bit of both (yeah…save and boring) and he really likes Mika but he sees his vanity and his attraction to the Italian tv and fashion world and he humors it.

 

I don’t find that disrespectful in itself. No idea though how the two of them get along in real live and how Mika feels about the cutting or would feel about the interview (he most likely will never see it anyway). Since he has a good sense of humor and he’s used to all kinds of comments I guess he wouldn’t mind that much.   

 

 

GUYS. I finally uploaded the first show! Here is the link: https://vk.com/video350477144_171841938

 

I'll also put them in the very first post I made so they're easier to find. Enjoy !

Thank you so much for doing this. I just watched the episode again and it was great to understand it all now. It must have been an enormous work but I'm very glad you did it. I adore all you subtitling folks. You're wonderful.

 

Unless i missed something, i don't think those are the names of the tours. However, they are handy ways to refer to the tours that didn't seem to have names.

Yes, You're probably right. Those are not official names. Thanks for your addition.

Can somebody tell me the tour names(?) of the shows Mika has done?

from googling i've found Dodgy Holiday Tour and Imaginarium tour and Heaven tour.[/size]

are there any other tours you guys know? [/size]

On this page you can find more names of tours after 2009 https://mikagigs.com/photo-galleries-2/

The rest of the website contains a lot of reviews, pictures and videos of concerts of all these tours.

I love the meaning of that video, and the thing that they delete those words on the wall, but I have to say that I agree with Pascale on some point.

I love it, but one the other side I think something is missing.

the funny thing is that I just watched some recent documentaries (million thanks to the translation team again) and now I'm sort of smitten with Mika again. Not missing anything at all. He's such a wonderful person: committed, kind, diligent, humorous, empathic, thoughtful, smart etc.etc. His thoughts, words and actions come from deep and understanding feeling for other people (especially outsiders). And he tries so many different things and works so hard to achieve them.

 

It's just that i'm not fond of the artistic form in which he is moulding his inner world recently. Sometimes I think he's taking himself a bit too seriously. Although he clearly tries hard not to do that. Like he says, the ego is a wonderful thing for an artist but also a dangerous thing. And it's difficult to stay focussed and to find the time and peace of mind to invent new original ways when so many people are following and admiring (or criticizing) every word you say and everything you do (in public).

 

Probably Í take him and most of all my appreciation of him too seriously myself. It's just a few videos I personally don't like or songs that I find okay but not great (while many others love them) and lately a feeling of disappointment and repetitiveness when I see his performances in shows like the Voice or X-factor.

However, he apparently sets very high standards himself and he has said that the last thing he wants is to be mediocre. So I'm still expecting (or at least hoping for) artistic excellence and originality. Which I'm afraid is almost impossible together with conveying sympathetic and significant messages and having long term participation in big tv shows and collaboration with famous fashion designers. And maybe even (I sincerely hope not) incompatible with having a very busy, happy and fulfilled live.

 

ps: i keep thinking of the words in Ordinary man "If I am ordinary.... so are you". It's all in the eye of the beholder.