sesil17aa Posted December 24, 2007 Author Share Posted December 24, 2007 oscard wilde fans: magical meeee!!!! he was simply a genious! one of my fave writers ever. Welcome! He really is This guy is haunting me!I only worked out 2 days ago that Oscar Wilde is neither a singer or Kim Wild's dad. I'm a huge fan of Mr. Oscar Fingal O'Flaherty Wills Wilde Welcome! ooh.. I'm def going to buy it.. But I haven't get to that part yet.. of the yellow book you talk about. I thought of reading it too, but I'm not sure yet. It sounds so... poisonous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REBEKA Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 It is not pathetic at all! I've wanted to do it since I was thirteen - put a bouquet of white lillies on his grave as he liked them so much. Now, that is pathetic I've also felt since the first moment that he is one of "my" people. It's strange, his works are not the thing that you would read relaxing by the cup of tea, they are very dark and disturbing, but still there is something extremely captivating about them and Wilde himself. Right. I`ve read also his "De Profundis" and it was very sad.. Especially because it was not a fiction but a looooooong letter he wrote to Bosie from the prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sesil17aa Posted December 24, 2007 Author Share Posted December 24, 2007 Right. I`ve read also his "De Profundis" and it was very sad.. Especially because it was not a fiction but a looooooong letter he wrote to Bosie from the prison. I read it when I was thirteen and it was so sad! Actually I'm now going through my second Wilde period, searching for all his books and books about him that I can find and reading them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sesil17aa Posted December 24, 2007 Author Share Posted December 24, 2007 Right. I`ve read also his "De Profundis" and it was very sad.. Especially because it was not a fiction but a looooooong letter he wrote to Bosie from the prison. I read some parts of it when I was thirteen and it was so sad! Actually now I'm going through my second Wilde period, searching for all his books and books about him that I can find and reading them and I want to read De Profundis from the beginning to the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guapo! Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 Hahah, indeed. I've basically read everything of his, including stuff no one even hears about, like "Duchess of Padua" or "Vera or the Nihilists." And I have a huge tome of all his collected letters, and a section of my bookshelf dedicated to him, and I did my undergrad thesis on some of his work. I even spent one summer reading rare books on him at the Library of Congress for fun. And yes, of course I've been to his grave, AND to his house, AND to his college, AND to the church where he was married, AND... I first got into him as a child through his fairy tales like "The Star Child," which are lovely and despairing and hopeful. Something few people seem to know about him is that despite his general reputation as a life-for-pleasure dandy esthete, he was actually a socialist/anarchist! And a feminist. He was the editor for a magazine called Women's World for a while, and a lot of his writings--fairytales, essays, etc--are quite politically/ethically motivated. In his view, the pursuit of beauty included beauty of the soul, and thus was rather less hedonistic than one might think. He also had his own unique brand of Christianity, which I identify with a lot. But of course he despised the hypocritic shallow mores and morals of his time, and loved to shock and mock the bourgeoisie. He also didn't believe in half of what he said, although he meant it all with utmost sincerity. By the way, it's thank to him and his circle that we have the stereotype of the gay man as having a limp wrist, etc. Or rather, thanks to the the hullabaloo that happened after his trials. It originally had nothing to do with gayness, but with being a stereotypical aesthete--a la Gilbert and Sullivan's operetta Patience--but when a number of those in the aesthetic circle were revealed to be gay, one became associated with the other. --Jack P.S. He is basically the love of my life, quite truly. I want to be like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkunicorn123 Posted December 24, 2007 Share Posted December 24, 2007 I want to be like you. Leave Jack's ego alone lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REBEKA Posted December 25, 2007 Share Posted December 25, 2007 Something few people seem to know about him is that despite his general reputation as a life-for-pleasure dandy esthete, he was actually a socialist/anarchist! And a feminist. He was the editor for a magazine called Women's World for a while, and a lot of his writings--fairytales, essays, etc--are quite politically/ethically motivated. In his view, the pursuit of beauty included beauty of the soul, and thus was rather less hedonistic than one might think. I didn`t know he was an anarchist or a feminist. If that`s true, he`s my man (not that he was not before). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sesil17aa Posted December 25, 2007 Author Share Posted December 25, 2007 Just a note - I added Wilde's picture to the first post for people to enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guapo! Posted December 25, 2007 Share Posted December 25, 2007 I thought of reading it too, but I'm not sure yet. It sounds so... poisonous nah, remember the quote I wrote.. there no such thing as an immoral or moral book, a book is just good or bad! (sorry if it's wrong, I know it in spanish) Leave Jack's ego alone lol lol.. don't worry it's all yours.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REBEKA Posted December 25, 2007 Share Posted December 25, 2007 I really like that one too, it's denser and more lush and has no plot per se--it's all like Ch. 11 of Dorian Gray--but it's quite wonderful. Very dark, very clever, very misogynistic, very decadent, very fin-de-siecle. Misogynistic? So where did his feminism got lost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sesil17aa Posted December 25, 2007 Author Share Posted December 25, 2007 nah, remember the quote I wrote.. there no such thing as an immoral or moral book, a book is just good or bad! (sorry if it's wrong, I know it in spanish) We know what happened to the innocent Dorian when he read it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REBEKA Posted December 25, 2007 Share Posted December 25, 2007 This guy is haunting me!I only worked out 2 days ago that Oscar Wilde is neither a singer or Kim Wild's dad. :roftl: :roftl: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sesil17aa Posted December 25, 2007 Author Share Posted December 25, 2007 Misogynistic? So where did his feminism got lost? It wasn't written by Wilde, but it sure was an inspiration for him. If I remember correctly, he was quite occupied with the book during his honeymoon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guapo! Posted December 25, 2007 Share Posted December 25, 2007 We know what happened to the innocent Dorian when he read it OMG, suspense , I need to read that part! I'm in chapter 10! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackViolet Posted December 25, 2007 Share Posted December 25, 2007 Oh, how nice to hear that you're such a fan of his. I actually know most of the facts that you mentioned, including the book that inspired Dorian Gray. However I've always been a bit confused about his beliefs. I always hoped that he did not really mean some of the things that he said, and it is sometimes hard to understand when he was serious and when he was not. I've read that Wilde was very careless and that he did not want to think about "ugly" issues like poverty, that he valued outer beauty higher than the goodness of character, but it seems impossible when I read his fairytales where there is so much compassion towards the less fortunate. Hava you read some of his most well known biographies? I'm reading "Oscar Wilde, His Life and Confessions" by Frank Harris at the moment. When I was in England I tried to find "The Unmasking Of Oscar Wilde" by Joseph Pearce, one of his newest biographies, but I couldn't find it. I read that there was much about his religious beliefs and I thought it could be really interesting. I do not really understand how religious he was - he used to say something quite blasphemous from time to time, but he did get christened before his death so religion ment something to him. I would have liked to meet him very much. That's wonderful that you have visited so many places associated with Wilde - I hope to do it so me day too. I would actually like to go to Ireland and see where he grew up. I know there is a museum of Wilde, and it would be so wonderful to see some of his belongings, maybe a lock of hair. I've also wanted for many years to go to Chelsea to see his house on Tite street and I definitely plan to do it the next time I'm in England. Oh, I can actually tell you where he was sincere and where he was not. He was a lot more sincere about a lot more things than people--most of them, including a lot of scholars on him--might believe. It may sound arrogant of me to say that I could tell you then, but honestly I've done pretty much as much research on him as most scholars. Last time I was reading through some of his early works I figured out a "tell" he does when he's sincere... I keep tossing about the idea of maybe making it into an article or something. Anyway, most of his off-the-cuff witty remarks were ones said for show, or to cause a reaction, and had little to do with what he thought per se. I mean, they contradict themselves half the time anyway--the substance isn't important in those, it's the style. ;-) But he definitely did care about compassion and the betterment of man and all, even if he did perhaps not to think on it as much as actual social activists would have. He would hardly have written "The Soul of Man Under Socialism" otherwise. And have you read William Morris' "News from Nowhere"? It's a utopian novel, and shows some of the ways aesthetic philosophy and socialism went together in both Morris' and Wilde's minds. (Not that Morris speaks for Wilde, but you know, similar circles and all.) If you read De Profundis, you know that he considered compassion (though he called it Imagination) to be the greatest quality someone could possess, along with rebellion. I also love his religious beliefs because... well... I wasn't brought up like he was and I'd never convert to Catholicism, but I am rather a fan of Jesus in the way I am a fan of Wilde. And half the stuff I say is blasphemous, but it has nothing to do with the truth of it as I see it. And one of the things I love Wilde for is his religious views... Awhile ago, I was going to do this illustrated anthology to showcase my personal views on Christ and such, and then I re-read Wilde's poems and prose and realized that dammit, he had said exactly what I would have wanted to, ages ago. So his views make sense to me, contradictions included. (I'm just as contradictory, haha.) --Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackViolet Posted December 25, 2007 Share Posted December 25, 2007 I didn`t know he was an anarchist or a feminist. If that`s true, he`s my man (not that he was not before). Yep! Well, he wasn't quite an anarchist. He was a socialist with anarchist leanings. To quote him: "I think I am rather more than a Socialist. I am something of an Anarchist, I believe..." Actually, here are some more of his politically-tinged quotes: "If the Socialism is Authoritarian; if there are Governments armed with economic power as they are now with political power; if, in a word, we are to have Industrial Tyrannies, then the last state of man will be worse than the first." (<--this is very true nowadays!) "Individualism, then, is what through Socialism we are to attain to. As a natural result the State must give up all idea of government." "An idea that is not dangerous is unworthy of being called an idea at all." "If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you." "Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live." "Democracy means simply the bludgeoning of the people by the people for the people." "Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious." "A thing is not necessarily true because a man dies for it." "Our ambition should be to rule ourselves, the true kingdom for each one of us; and true progress is to know more, and be more, and to do more." "My great mistake, the fault for which I can't forgive myself, is that one day I ceased my obstinate pursuit of my own individuality." "Art is the most intense form of individualism that the world has known." And you can see a lot of his feminism in plays like "Lady Windermere's Fan" and others. He was Ibsen-inspired there, I think. --Jack P.S. Sesil17aa was right--the book that inspired Wilde was misogynist, but he was not. He was also very inspired by Flaubert, who was incredibly misogynistic, but he did not imitate him in this way. In fact, he would sometimes incorporate bits of Flaubert and other French decadents into his writing, but twist the symbolism around so that it undermined the original misogyny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzy Posted December 25, 2007 Share Posted December 25, 2007 *sigh* Oh, Jack... *And I haven't even one iota of knowledge on this topic, but I can read your posts all day* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sesil17aa Posted December 25, 2007 Author Share Posted December 25, 2007 Oh, I can actually tell you where he was sincere and where he was not. He was a lot more sincere about a lot more things than people--most of them, including a lot of scholars on him--might believe. It may sound arrogant of me to say that I could tell you then, but honestly I've done pretty much as much research on him as most scholars. Last time I was reading through some of his early works I figured out a "tell" he does when he's sincere... I keep tossing about the idea of maybe making it into an article or something. Anyway, most of his off-the-cuff witty remarks were ones said for show, or to cause a reaction, and had little to do with what he thought per se. I mean, they contradict themselves half the time anyway--the substance isn't important in those, it's the style. ;-) But he definitely did care about compassion and the betterment of man and all, even if he did perhaps not to think on it as much as actual social activists would have. He would hardly have written "The Soul of Man Under Socialism" otherwise. And have you read William Morris' "News from Nowhere"? It's a utopian novel, and shows some of the ways aesthetic philosophy and socialism went together in both Morris' and Wilde's minds. (Not that Morris speaks for Wilde, but you know, similar circles and all.) If you read De Profundis, you know that he considered compassion (though he called it Imagination) to be the greatest quality someone could possess, along with rebellion. I also love his religious beliefs because... well... I wasn't brought up like he was and I'd never convert to Catholicism, but I am rather a fan of Jesus in the way I am a fan of Wilde. And half the stuff I say is blasphemous, but it has nothing to do with the truth of it as I see it. And one of the things I love Wilde for is his religious views... Awhile ago, I was going to do this illustrated anthology to showcase my personal views on Christ and such, and then I re-read Wilde's poems and prose and realized that dammit, he had said exactly what I would have wanted to, ages ago. So his views make sense to me, contradictions included. (I'm just as contradictory, haha.) --Jack Yes' I've noticed that he contradicts himself all the time. I am in a hurry now therefore I can't write longer reply, I just wanted to say - if you ever write an article about Wilde, I'm the first in line to read it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sienna Posted December 25, 2007 Share Posted December 25, 2007 *sigh* Oh, Jack... *And I haven't even one iota of knowledge on this topic, but I can read your posts all day* Oh, so I’m not the only one! There are a group of members on this forum whose posts always are worth reading, even on this subject, witch I know basically nothing about and still it’s interesting. But I learn a lot! And I’m definitely going to take a look at Oskar Wilde! And Suzy, your posts goes in that category too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackiexx Posted December 25, 2007 Share Posted December 25, 2007 ah, i was reading "The Picture of Dorian Gray" the other day ... i nearly finished the first chapter then i turned to fashion magazine and chocolate again .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalas Posted December 25, 2007 Share Posted December 25, 2007 Oh thanks for this thread! I will read the picture of dorian gray after the 4? books I must read before. Is the english in it very hard to understand? I cound read it in swedish ín that case.... what do you think ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariposa Posted December 25, 2007 Share Posted December 25, 2007 Oh my god! An Oscar Wilde thread! I love his work...can't get enough of it! His wittiness and eloquence are just outsanding and "The picture of Dorian Gray" is my favourite book ever! thank you for this thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artsyfartsy17 Posted December 25, 2007 Share Posted December 25, 2007 Just stopping in to say that I love OW. His work was very ahead of his time, and it's simply amazing. Good idea for a thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guapo! Posted December 25, 2007 Share Posted December 25, 2007 ah, i was reading "The Picture of Dorian Gray" the other day ... i nearly finished the first chapter then i turned to fashion magazine and chocolate again .... lmao! your posts makes me laugh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sesil17aa Posted December 26, 2007 Author Share Posted December 26, 2007 Oh thanks for this thread! I will read the picture of dorian gray after the 4? books I must read before. Is the english in it very hard to understand? I cound read it in swedish ín that case.... what do you think ? I read it in Latvian, but I was planning to reread it in the original language. As much as I can remember, there were some names of jewelry and some luxury things that I probably would not have understood, but basically it wasn't too difficult. Oh my god! An Oscar Wilde thread! I love his work...can't get enough of it! His wittiness and eloquence are just outsanding and "The picture of Dorian Gray" is my favourite book ever! thank you for this thread! Just stopping in to say that I love OW. His work was very ahead of his time, and it's simply amazing. Good idea for a thread! Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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