Let's talk POLITICS ( NO FIGHTS)

[BonjourMika1990]

Well the terrorists were hiding out in Iraq.

 

Yeah but the country itself wasn't to blame...

People started to blame other middle eastern countries like they are all the same...

 

I don't like the fear we have of the middle east... but it's definatley prevelant now.

[soon-to-bemrs.penniman]

The only thing that frustrates me is that when 9/11 happened, everyone was like "OMGZ. GO TO WAR. WHY ISN'T BUSH AT WAR THIS VERY SECONDDDDD OMGZ? "

 

Now that the craze has died down, everyone's like "...Me? No, I never wanted war. "

 

:naughty:

[Christine]

Why does anyone care if immigrants speak English or Dutch? Let them speak Spanish or Arabic if they want to. What's it got to do with you?

 

And I'm confused on the whole gay rights thing. I think gay people should definitely have all the rights that everyone else has, but then again... I don't know if they should have "marriage". Because if you're gay, and you want a Christian marriage, you would understand WHY your religion is against it.

 

Marriage is a civil contract, especially when you're talking about gay rights. Religion doesn't come into it. If people want to negotiate with churches to conduct religious marriages, that's between them and the church. But on the legal front, it's a civil issue.

 

And sometimes I think "Well, this is a Christian country..." but, let's face it, it's not anymore. They're taking God out of absolutely everything.

 

The US has had separation of church and state virtually since its inception. It's been a case of people trying to insert religion into the government where it doesn't belong, not the other way around.

 

1. if you are promiscuous and get pregnant, i don't think you should be able to get one. you risked it, you now get to bear the burden.

 

I don't understand this concept of punishing promiscuous women. It is the unwanted child that will bear the burden ultimately, not the irresponsible and disinterested mother.

 

There are far worse fates in this world than not being born.

 

Not to mention that if we legalized abortion for rape/incest/life of the mother, like republicans are talking about doing, how many girls would go to the abortion clinic like "UMMMM.. yea, I was raped... a few weeks ago. And now I don't want it." when they were just being careless.

 

What's this about a Republican proposal? I thought abortion has been effectively legal in the US for 35 years.

 

Abortion doesn't equal murder to me. If it's done early enough, you're just talking about an interrupted chemical reaction really. It's just cells that split and split and split.

 

I totally agree with that. You can classify 2-week-old embryos as independent human beings but if that was really the case they could survive outside the womb. You can't force another human being to act as host to a parasite, whether that parasite has human DNA or not.

 

But he is actually being serious! He's very right wing and basically his only point is that he hates muslims and thinks they should all be kicked out of the country, and that the koran should be forbidden like Hitlers' mein kampf

 

Wow!

 

The law is baisically to prohibit people speaking out against the government until the year leading up to the next vote.

 

WTF? That's outrageous.

 

You should also take into account what the person is like.

 

Are they mentally handicapped? Someone with mental retardation couldn't properly raise a child (assuming they were raped), and if they don't have a caring family member, it might be best to get an abortion, considering that it could make their condition much worse to actually be pregnant and give birth.

 

If you're correct that abortion is murder then why would you take a person's mental retardation into account? Would it be okay to murder an 18-year-old if it was in the best interest of someone who was mentally retarded?

 

If you're going to presume that abortion is murder then you have to follow that all the way through and not permit abortion under any circumstance.

 

American or not, what's the difference? To not discuss an issue with someone of a different nationality purley because they are AMERCICAN is really disturbing and sort of sad...

 

I've been discussing a lot of issues with Americans for many years and I've also learned that it's extremely difficult to broach or get in depth on certain topics. I'm speaking generally of course and not about every individual. But we're not having a one-on-one discussion here, we're talking as a group.

 

Generally speaking Americans have some values that differ greatly with Canadians and western Europeans. Many of us are not raised with the same religious influences that pervades everything from your political opinions to views on sex.

 

These are all touchy subjects and in my experience people can get extremely defensive about their beliefs and don't like to be challenged on them. Since most people hold such strong beliefs because that's what they've been taught by their parents, church and state their entire lives, it's often pointless to debate about it because they're not going to change their minds based on any rational argument.

[soon-to-bemrs.penniman]

Yeah but the country itself wasn't to blame...

People started to blame other middle eastern countries like they are all the same...

 

I don't like the fear we have of the middle east... but it's definatley prevelant now.

it so is.

absolutely:no:

[Guest]

Yes that's what I was referring to when I mentioned 'weapons of mass destrucion and terrorism.'

The fact remains that weapons of mass destruction were never found..

I've yet to see the amazing evidence they had to support this WoMD theory.

No, I mean the terrorists. I think Saddam stated before that he would use WoMD to bomb the hell out of us. I mean... it's like if someone tells you there's poison in the birthday cake. Are you going to let a bunch of children eat the cake and wait to see if any of them keel over? Or are you going to throw out the cake and change it to a pizza party?

 

Yeah but the country itself wasn't to blame...

People started to blame other middle eastern countries like they are all the same...

 

I don't like the fear we have of the middle east... but it's definatley prevelant now.

 

Well obviously the country wasn't to blame, but the point still remains that the terrorists were, indeed, hiding in Iraq.

 

Why do I keep typing "Iraw" when I mean to type ''Iraq"? It's getting annoying.

[MaRisOl]

ok then if war is the topic i think there should be no war i mean there's no a good reason for it! and btw i think both countries attacked at the same time i mean there's no first or second as far as i know but anyway i dont really know much about that

[Guest]

The US has had separation of church and state virtually since its inception. It's been a case of people trying to insert religion into the government where it doesn't belong, not the other way around.

No... it was founded on Christian beliefs.

 

What's this about a Republican proposal? I thought abortion has been effectively legal in the US for 35 years.

The Republicans were trying to get them to get rid of abortion entirely, except for rape/incest/life of the mother. Democrats denyed, obviously, but still.

 

If you're correct that abortion is murder then why would you take a person's mental retardation into account? Would it be okay to murder an 18-year-old if it was in the best interest of someone who was mentally retarded?

 

If you're going to presume that abortion is murder then you have to follow that all the way through and not permit abortion under any circumstance.

Because a mentally retarded person has nothing to do with raising an 18 year old. People that are that handicapped usually aren't allowed to raise children, should they even have them.

 

And no, there are certain circumstances for abortion, in my opinion.

[BonjourMika1990]

ok then if war is the topic i think there should be no war i mean there's no a good reason for it! and btw i think both countries attacked at the same time i mean there's no first or second as far as i know but anyway i dont really know much about that

 

Marisol, you're half Mexican:mf_lustslow: I know what your name means too,

 

is it... earth and sun?

[MaRisOl]

yeah man lol well actually is sea and sun but it's true i'm half mexican but how do you know?

[BonjourMika1990]

yeah man lol that's true how do you know?

 

I'm mexican too...my cousins name is marisol...very pretty:bleh:

[Diana]

yay! a fellow hippy!

ME, I DON'T BELIEVE IN WAR...I DON'T THINK THE ONE WE'RE IN NOW IS NECESSARY...It's hard to say that any war has been necessary because the end result is always power for someone.

 

High five!

 

The only thing that frustrates me is that when 9/11 happened, everyone was like "OMGZ. GO TO WAR. WHY ISN'T BUSH AT WAR THIS VERY SECONDDDDD OMGZ? "

 

Now that the craze has died down, everyone's like "...Me? No, I never wanted war. "

 

I never said such a thing but then again, I'm Dutch.

Like mister Ghandi once said: "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

 

No, I mean the terrorists. I think Saddam stated before that he would use WoMD to bomb the hell out of us. I mean... it's like if someone tells you there's poison in the birthday cake. Are you going to let a bunch of children eat the cake and wait to see if any of them keel over? Or are you going to throw out the cake and change it to a pizza party?

 

Those are two completely different things. In your cake example it's a fact that it's poisoned. Saddam's statements were threats that were not supported by evidence.

The US government had 'reasons to believe' there were weapons of mass destructions. Have they ever presented us with any evidence to support that theory? No.

Have weapons of mass destruction been found? No.

Those two things lead me to believe that we're being lied to by the US government about the real reasons for starting this war.

[LebAngel]

Well the terrorists were hiding out in Iraq.

 

terrorists are hiding everywhere, not only in Iraq.

i think that the iraq war, as someone has already said, is more a personal matter: bush vs saddam. nothing more than this. or maybe oil too.

 

and the weapons were just (a stupid) excuse to invade this country.

a report lately settled that there were no such weapons there.

(maybe saddam moved them outside the lands, dunno)

 

anyway, dont missunderstand me...i'm just saying that this excuse was fake.

i'm against dictature and terrorism, my cousins are iraqi but they moved from there just after the gulf war...it's very sad what's happening for the iraqi people who still live there....

[MaRisOl]

thanks so...have you been to mexico? do you speak spanish?

[MaRisOl]

but as far as i know sadam id dead isn't it?

[Guest]

Those are two completely different things. In your cake example it's a fact that it's poisoned. Saddam's statements were threats that were not supported by evidence.

 

They're not different. Suppose you didn't KNOW the cake was poison. There's no bottles lying around with little skull and crossbones on them. There's no boxes of serum with Mr. Yuck smiley faces on them on the counter. But they insist they've poisoned the cake, and you know due to your past with them that they're fully capable of it. You're telling me you'd let the kids still eat the cake?

[phunkygal]

hey everyone! PEACE! last yr i was i total hippy, tie dye, patchwork, incense....

[Christine]

No... it was founded on Christian beliefs.

 

And the Bill of Rights was implemented 15 years later, protecting people's religious freedom from government interference. It is not the government's place to dictate laws based on Christianity or any other religion.

 

Because a mentally retarded person has nothing to do with raising an 18 year old. People that are that handicapped usually aren't allowed to raise children, should they even have them.

 

And no, there are certain circumstances for abortion, in my opinion.

 

Why does the raising of a baby (or an 18-year-old) have anything to do with what constitutes murder and what doesn't?

 

Are you saying that there are certain circumstances where murder is acceptable?

[kk448]

As far as the war thing goes...I just want to know why the hell we are in another country preaching democracy when we're having trouble over here. Don't get me wrong, I love my country, but some of the things we do don't make sense to me. Why go off and spend this crazy amount of money, not to mention the thousands of people who have died (American and not), to go fight a war that Bush threw us into. I just don't get how war makes peace. I mean, of course, 9/11 was terrible but there is no way we are really ever going to stop those terrorist groups and invading one country isn't going to help. Like Diana said I think, I just wish Bush would have said, "I'm going after Saddam" or whatever. Instead, it's become this impossible "War on Terror". I just really wish that the U.S. would let certain countries deal with their own conflicts. We always have to butt in. Now guess who will be paying back these insane war debts, my generation and my children's generation. Of course, I have even gotten into all of the lives that were lost in the process. I don't get why everything needs to be solved in a violent matter. Look at Pakistan. Bhutto wanted democracy back in the country and look what happened to her. She gets shot. It's so ridiculous.

[LebAngel]

I don't like the fear we have of the middle east... but it's definatley prevelant now.

 

first of all: brilliant idea to have made this thread where we can share our differents point of views:thumb_yello:

 

i wanted to say something about this but i suddenly realised that english is not my mother language, i'm very frustrated now:bleh: and it's a very sensitive point here, so i'm not gonna say much, just that there's a reason to eveything in this world.

 

terrorism is not only in the middle-east: see what happened yesterday to Benazir Bhutto.

and it's not USA or Europe vs Midlle-East, see what's happening in Lebanon since 2005 and in Algeria and and and....

 

It's all about politics and personal interests/matters/business (not always religion)

but it's always the poor citizens who suffered:sneaky2:

 

So please Middle-East and terrorism are 2 different things.

[kk448]

but as far as i know sadam id dead isn't it?

 

Yes, he is dead. He was executed almost a year ago.

[MaRisOl]

yeah but there are rumors saying he is not dead actually he's just pretending anyway people do you still want to talk about wars?

[kk448]

first of all: brilliant idea to have made this thread where we can share our differents point of views:thumb_yello:

 

i wanted to say something about this but i suddenly realised that english is not my mother language, i'm very frustrated now:bleh: and it's a very sensitive point here, so i'm not gonna say much, just that there's a reason to eveything in this world.

 

terrorism is not only in the middle-east: see what happened yesterday to Benazir Bhutto.

and it's not USA or Europe vs Midlle-East, see what's happening in Lebanon since 2005 and in Algeria and and and....

 

It's all about politics and personal interests/matters/business (not always religion)

but it's always the poor citizens who suffered:sneaky2:

 

So please Middle-East and terrorism are 2 different things.

 

I completely agree. Nowadays terrorism and the Middle East are synonymous. It's probably really frustrating to be from around there and people look at you and assume you're a terrorist or affiliated with them. You should hear about the Americans that are selling passports and helping terrorists get into the U.S.

[Diana]

They're not different. Suppose you didn't KNOW the cake was poison. There's no bottles lying around with little skull and crossbones on them. There's no boxes of serum with Mr. Yuck smiley faces on them on the counter. But they insist they've poisoned the cake, and you know due to your past with them that they're fully capable of it. You're telling me you'd let the kids still eat the cake?

 

It's a wrong comparison. A right one would be shooting the alleged cake poisoners so they wouldn't have a chance to make the allegedly poisoned cake.

 

You can't just go around and kill people just because you *think* they might harm you.

[kk448]

yeah but there are rumors saying he is not dead that he just pretending anyway poeple do you still want to talk about wars?

 

Of course, we still want to talk. I've heard the rumors as well that some people think it wasn't Saddam that was hanged. It's my belief that he is dead but then again there are others that are always going to speculate. I guess it was because they placed a bag over his head before they did it. I'm not really sure how they could fake the death, but I'm sure it's always possible. I just believe he is dead, though.

[phunkygal]

It's a wrong comparison. A right one would be shooting the alleged cake poisoners so they wouldn't have a chance to make the allegedly poisoned cake.

 

You can't just go around and kill people just because you *think* they might harm you.

 

I agree 100%, i wouldn't go up to a forty year old man and shoot him! I mean, he might be a pedefile, but it doesn't mean i should end his life over it! Which leads me to execution, i toally believe in that though! if you murder someone, you should be murdered back, and eye for an eye, ya know? Anyone who commits a crime should be punished by the same way! I think Hammurabi was a total genius! Anyone who would have the coldness to hurt/murder someone deserves to be killed!