Let's talk POLITICS ( NO FIGHTS)

[EnFa]

I don't want to mingle too much in this discussion; the only thing I want to say at this moment is that abortion is practically never an easy way out. The choice is a very hard one...

 

Yes, indeed. Imagine being pregnant. They body tells you to prepare for motherhood. You want to get it removed. It's pretty extreme.

 

Personally, I don't think I would be strong enough.

But isn't it better, to make it legal instead of people going to make it done illagal some nasty disgusting place.?

[greta]

And a pregnant woman in one camp would not abort anyway, and in the other camp would.

It's called pro-choice.

Why inflict your beliefs on others?

agree:mf_rosetinted:

 

My opinion is that no one who is "unborn" can be a person (how can you be alive if you are not yet born? That's like being alive after you are dead) and also that fetuses are less responsive/conscious/etc than animals.

 

So I don't kill or eat animals but do not mind terminations of lives that have not yet started. Also there are huge issues with adoption, both with the system and how it makes the woman feel. (Certainly abortion traumatizes some women too, but so does adoption. Not every option is right for every person.)

 

Is it even possible to call abortion a "hidden holocaust" though? How does one define "holocaust" in this instance? It's not like it is a systematized effort to kill all fetuses, and it's not like it's carried out in any methodical way, like say... the wiping out of the Gypsies or American Indians or whoever. It's a decision made on a case-by-case basis.

 

--Jack

..a complicate matter of ethics.

Yes, indeed. Imagine being pregnant. They body tells you to prepare for motherhood. You want to get it removed. It's pretty extreme.

 

Personally, I don't think I would be strong enough.

But isn't it better, to make it legal instead of people going to make it done illagal some nasty disgusting place.?

I think it's better.

[BonjourMika1990]

I don't want to mingle too much in this discussion; the only thing I want to say at this moment is that abortion is practically never an easy way out. The choice is a very hard one...

 

yes, but I was referring more toward young girls who are not ready to have babies and are ignorant of other choices...The girls who know they've had sex and refuse to live with the consequences for selfish reasons (and yes their reasons are most likely selfish...if not, than that's another story.) To me, if you're old enough to have sex than you are old enough to have a child. Adoption is always the better alternative in my eyes.

 

SEX=CHILDREN

 

I know that people say that if you are not technically born than you are not a living thing... But the baby is alive in the mother's womb...What constitutes a life? Whether or not you see the light of day or if your heart beats inside of a person?

 

From the moment of conception, I believe that life is sacred and meant to be born.

[Guest]

So if I had a farm and killed all the unborn calves before they popped out (or even when they were partly out, like partial birth abortion), it wouldn't be wrong? I mean, assuming there's nothing wrong at all with the calf, or the mother cow, I just don't want it.

 

That's directed to the animal activists, by the way.

[BonjourMika1990]

So if I had a farm and killed all the unborn calves before they popped out (or even when they were partly out, like partial birth abortion), it wouldn't be wrong? I mean, assuming there's nothing wrong at all with the calf, or the mother cow, I just don't want it.

 

That's directed to the animal activists, by the way.

 

Well to me it would be wrong lol... I'm with PETA.

[mandilambi]

You beat me to it, Sarie. I was going to bring up that point...

[Guest]

Well to me it would be wrong lol... I'm with PETA.

But you're against abortion.

I'm talking about the animal rights activists that are in favor of abortion.

 

You beat me to it, Sarie. I was going to bring up that point...

I get sick of people being so into animals that they completely disregard humans.

[queenmikamop16]

Obama!!!!!

[BonjourMika1990]

I agree Sarie... It doesn't make sense to be for animal rights and pro choice:shocked:

[babspanky]

Of course it does!

Animal rights, to me are all about how we treat animals after birth.

Pro choice and animal rights are completeley different issues.

[Starrats]

I get sick of people being so into animals that they completely disregard humans.

 

*Hides in a corner* :boxed:

[Diana]

Of course it does!

Animal rights, to me are all about how we treat animals after birth.

Pro choice and animal rights are completeley different issues.

 

Exactly.

 

When a person decides to have an abortion, it's their own choice.

[BonjourMika1990]

Well, animals and humans suffer the same way when they are aborted.

[Guest]

But also somewhere back the line, people were saying that Laci Peterson's unborn child, for example, shouldn't have been considered murder.

 

So if I kill a baby pig that's going to be born in like... a week, is that still wrong? Or doesn't it matter at all that I took the life of something so close to birth?

[Guest]

Well, animals and humans suffer the same way when they are aborted.

 

Exactly.

 

The whole point is that it sounds like animal rights activists are saying "Oh, you should be killed if you kick a puppy.", but yet let someone beat a child to death, and suddenly there's no reason for the death penalty. That's ridiculous.

[BonjourMika1990]

Like I said before: The child "unborn" is still a living creature... They have a heart beat, a pulse... They're just being nurtured inside of their mothers womb... Unless ofcourse they aren't being nurtured...but rather tortured.

 

Maybe it's no one's intention to cause suffering through abortion...but it really is inevidable... To me, there is no good reason to have an abortion because you chose to.

 

People have a choice to do whatever they want... Life is about making choices...that doesn't mean that anyone should abuse that right.

[Guest]

Mhmm.

 

And like I said earlier, that child from the moment of conception has it's own DNA. It's genetic makeup is different from the mother's. It's not the mother's heartbeat, it's not the mother's lungs. Sure, the mother is helping to keep it alive while it's in the womb. But that's like saying that once a baby is born, it shouldn't be allowed to live just because it can't feed itself, change itself, bathe itself, etc. for the first year or so.

[babspanky]

Well, animals and humans suffer the same way when they are aborted.

 

I didn't realise that there was proof that any foetus suffered when aborted before a certain period?

 

Exactly.

 

The whole point is that it sounds like animal rights activists are saying "Oh, you should be killed if you kick a puppy.", but yet let someone beat a child to death, and suddenly there's no reason for the death penalty. That's ridiculous.

 

I don't think anyone actually said that, did they? Or even inferred it in any way! That's really trivialising the argument for or against animal rights or for or against the death penalty.

You have confused and even scared me a little, girls.

[BonjourMika1990]

I didn't realise that there was proof that any foetus suffered when aborted before a certain period?

 

 

 

I don't think anyone actually said that, did they? Or even inferred it in any way! That's really trivialising the argument for or against animal rights or for or against the death penalty.

You have confused and even scared me a little, girls.

 

How could they NOT suffer? Obviously, they cannot express what they feel...but that is no reason to say they don't suffer.

 

If the baby was aborted with that pill...the day after pill...that doesn't even give it a chnce to develope than ofcourse it wouldn't suffer... BUT I think we can all agree that we are talking about babies being aborted after that fact.

 

With the salt injection, they choke to death on salt.

With the partial birth method, their little necks are snapped with the sizzors...

Other methods involve far more gruesome circumstances... Babies are cut up into little peices...limb by limb...

 

This is not an easy topic to preach about, because it's so sad and heartbreaking... I'm sorry if the images I presented are harsh, but I need for people to understand that even if we don't know that they suffer... Chances are that they do...how could they not? THey are living...breathing beings.

[Guest]

How could they NOT suffer? Obviously, they cannot express what they feel...but that is no reason to say they don't suffer.

 

If the baby was aborted with that pill...the day after pill...that doesn't even give it a chnce to develope than ofcourse it wouldn't suffer... BUT I think we can all agree that we are talking about babies being aborted after that fact.

 

With the salt injection, they choke to death on salt.

With the partial birth method, their little necks are snapped with the sizzors...

Other methods involve far more gruesome circumstances... Babies are cut up into little peices...limb by limb...

 

This is not an easy topic to preach about, because it's so sad and heartbreaking... I'm sorry if the images I presented are harsh, but I need for people to understand that even if we don't know that they suffer... Chances are that they do...how could they not? THey are living...breathing beings.

 

Exactly. Just for an example, I was watching a show on Autism the other day. They were studying the case of a boy who couldn't talk, communicate, or have any control whatsoever over his face, limbs, etc. But they gave him some kind of machine, and he could type letters and words. He understood everything going on around him, and was intelligent for his age, but he couldn't communicate. Don't you think maybe it's the same way with fetuses? Obviously they can't communicate, but they can still feel pain. Just because you don't hear them crying out doesn't mean it doesn't hurt. I forget what age pain sensitivity developes.

[stien]

How could they NOT suffer? Obviously, they cannot express what they feel...but that is no reason to say they don't suffer.

 

If the baby was aborted with that pill...the day after pill...that doesn't even give it a chnce to develope than ofcourse it wouldn't suffer... BUT I think we can all agree that we are talking about babies being aborted after that fact.

 

With the salt injection, they choke to death on salt.

With the partial birth method, their little necks are snapped with the sizzors...

Other methods involve far more gruesome circumstances... Babies are cut up into little peices...limb by limb...

 

This is not an easy topic to preach about, because it's so sad and heartbreaking... I'm sorry if the images I presented are harsh, but I need for people to understand that even if we don't know that they suffer... Chances are that they do...how could they not? THey are living...breathing beings.

 

If I say that I agree with legalizing abortion, I'm talking about abortion in exactly that stage! By making it legal, you prevent horrible things from happening (like partial birth,...). That's why you make it legal in the first place!

There's a very strict procedure for it, and there is a max. weeks of pregnancy, precisely to prevent the murder of a "child".

 

 

And about death penalty, I find it odd that some people say on one hand that they are all against abortion because it's murder, and a life is sacre, but on the other hand they're convinced that a murderer should be killed... Don't you think that's contradictory?

[Guest]

And about death penalty, I find it odd that some people say on one hand that they are all against abortion because it's murder, and a life is sacre, but on the other hand they're convinced that a murderer should be killed... Don't you think that's contradictory?

 

The babies didn't do anything wrong to deserve to be aborted.

 

I hardly think developing inside a womb is level with the same act as murdering a whole family in a fit of rage. Which is why someone proven guilty of the aforementioned should be put to death.

[BonjourMika1990]

If I say that I agree with legalizing abortion, I'm talking about abortion in exactly that stage! By making it legal, you prevent horrible things from happening (like partial birth,...). That's why you make it legal in the first place!

There's a very strict procedure for it, and there is a max. weeks of pregnancy, precisely to prevent the murder of a "child".

 

 

And about death penalty, I find it odd that some people say on one hand that they are all against abortion because it's murder, and a life is sacre, but on the other hand they're convinced that a murderer should be killed... Don't you think that's contradictory?

 

I'm not exactly understanding what your argument is... can you maybe rephrase it...

 

I'm against the death penalty, so I can't talk... But I agree with Sarie that the baby didn't commit the crime, and therefore should not be killed.

[babspanky]

How could they NOT suffer? Obviously, they cannot express what they feel...but that is no reason to say they don't suffer.

 

.

And what's the reason to say they do?

You are getting into the realms of scientific proof here, surely.

And that is a whole different argument.

 

If it could be incontrovertibly proven that the foetus did not suffer in any way, would you still be against it?

[melman92]

Interesting thread

 

I'm not american but I suppose I'm democratic. I support Hilary Clinton (though I dunno much about her, but a woman as a president,that'd be cool) but I am also for Barack Obbama ( though I dont know much about him)

But,non offense everyone, I don't think the USA are ready for a woman/black president,it's something I really doubt, though it'd be great

 

Anyway, I'm french, and I have to say it, I hate our president Nicolas Sarkozy! It' would have been so much better if Segolene Royal had won. On the other hand, I knew it would be him cuz he has a lot of support, a lot of famous friends,and all! At school,during/before the elections,we were talking a lot about it but I was like the only one to be against Sarkozy with another guy (but he's like "viva la revolution!"),all the others were for him!

 

I don't think we should have a woman president, simply because women are so disrespected in alot of other countries and they won't be taken seriously. Plus, women think too much with their heart and not their heads. It's scientific. A woman president could only work if the other countries had women leaders.

 

 

I don't really agree with you. Even if women could think a bit more with their hearts, I think they could be presidents! And I beg to pardon but more and more women are powerful and bosses of big companies, and even presidents!

For example, the german president is a woman and I know others women are also presidents (but I have a mind like a sieve so I don't remember their names or coutries ) and they're doing fine and they are taken seriously. Furthermore, if a woman was the president of the USA,she would be taken a bit more seriously because she would have a fight a lot to do it!