mikaholic Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Well, this is extremely random, but I just got into a discussion with my friend about the concept of "time." It was like a half-argument, half-discussion. What do you guys think time is? I was asked what time is in Humanities class, and that's what brought this up. When my teacher asked me the question, I thought about the book "Slaughterhouse Five" by Kurt Vonnegut (I don't know how many of you guys have read it, but it's a good book). Well, in the story, there are aliens who know the "truth" about time, and it is hard for the human to wrap his mind around the concept. I kind of understand what they say about time, and I think it makes some sense. It's hard to explain over the internet, but I'll give it a shot. So time is everything that's ever happened, everything happening now, and everything that's going to happen, right? Well, the theory brought up is that there are three worlds - past, present, and future. The worlds aren't really like other planets or anything, but they're kind of just figurative. But we, of course, live in the present, there are people who live in the past world, and people who live in the future world. All of the worlds are existing simultaneously. So the past is happening right now, as is the future. And we could never exist in one of those worlds even if we were able to time travel, because once you got there, you would refer to it as "now," which indicates the present tense. I don't know...it's really weird. You probably did not follow that at ALL. But what do you guys think? Make any sense at all?....or do I just need to go to bed? Just thought I'd open up a discussion for those of you who are insanely bored and have nothing better to do, like me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lollipop_monkey Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Time is a hard concept to wrap my head around. Time as a measurement, though, is definitely a man-made concept. People like calculations, they like numbers, and they like things to be exact. Nature isn't exact, but we try to make it so. I'm not sure I can wrap my head around what you said here: "All of the worlds are existing simultaneously. So the past is happening right now, as is the future. And we could never exist in one of those worlds even if we were able to time travel, because once you got there, you would refer to it as "now," which indicates the present tense." I can't comprehend the past, present and future existing simultaneously - that messes with the linear concept of time that humans have worked very hard to perfect... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fmbm Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Time is a strange thing. I find it really weird that numbers determines what time of day it is. It's just odd... Time can also be a gift and a curse. Time is a mysterious old thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armande Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 i agree with you lollipop monkey, however, the 'referring to it as 'now'' i completely understand i first thought of the movie Donnie Darko when i read the first post, i watched that movie so many times to try and understand the concepts, then i had to remind myself that it was fiction, and pretty much gave up EDIT: i forgot to add that i think time is just a measurement, and that 'the past' only exists in our minds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikaholic Posted January 14, 2008 Author Share Posted January 14, 2008 The part about the worlds existing simultaneously is the part I have a hard time explaining. It makes perfect sense in my mind. I guess it has to do with creativity too. You have to be able to think abstractly to kind of see where I'm going with it. I'm just trying to say that the past is there right now. It happened, and right now it's the past. Right now, the future is the future...we're just not there yet. Agh, it's so hard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armande Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 i think i understand what you mean now... but im not sure i agree with it, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Droopsy Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 i agree with you lollipop monkey, however, the 'referring to it as 'now'' i completely understand i first thought of the movie Donnie Darko when i read the first post, i watched that movie so many times to try and understand the concepts, then i had to remind myself that it was fiction, and pretty much gave up EDIT: i forgot to add that i think time is just a measurement, and that 'the past' only exists in our minds Oh I love that movie It's idd quite heavy for the mind to bear, but I made my own little interpretation about it --- What time concerns, I understand your idea about the past, present and future existing and stuff, but to me it's just science. The past is over and done, yeah if you lived there it would be the present, but the past's done, no more people living there to me the only thing really happening is the present. The future and past exist, but not at the same time to me... Jeez, this is idd hard to explain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalas Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 I can follow theory... It makes sense. I think some phphilosophers have the same idea. The only thing that's hard to imagine is where all the other time is? Is it co-existing (does that word exist hehe) with us or is it in another universe? Time is all conneced to the speed of light and universe expansion... And I've heard that you are in a space ship thats is going faster than the rest of humanity (or on the contrary, I don't remember) you can come back like 7 years later when there have been 10 years on earth... Please correct me if I'm wrong!!! But it is true that things like gravity can turn time. In black holes, time don't exists... I've just realised that I've skipped two lessons today. I overslept and I didn't know that I was supposed to have religion this term... opsi hehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sienna Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Thank you mikaholic for sharing your thoughts about this. It’s really interesting. Time has always been a subject witch fascinates authors and filmmakers and of course philosophers in all times. Have anyone heard about the theory of folds in time, it would be the moment where co-existing times meet and confuses everyone and everything. I know this is childish and maybe too simple for serious thinkers:naughty: but I love the films Back to the Future who are making fun of all this time theories but in a nice way. And for those who are interested in sf we have the great author Arthur C Clarke, he takes you on trips in different worlds and times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greta Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Thank you mikaholic for sharing your thoughts about this.It’s really interesting. Time has always been a subject witch fascinates authors and filmmakers and of course philosophers in all times. Have anyone heard about the theory of folds in time, it would be the moment where co-existing times meet and confuses everyone and everything. I know this is childish and maybe too simple for serious thinkers:naughty: but I love the films Back to the Future who are making fun of all this time theories but in a nice way. And for those who are interested in sf we have the great author Arthur C Clarke, he takes you on trips in different worlds and times! good ol' hard-science fiction!!! I'm with those who believe Time is cyclical:mf_rosetinted: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikaholic Posted January 14, 2008 Author Share Posted January 14, 2008 Thank you mikaholic for sharing your thoughts about this.It’s really interesting. Time has always been a subject witch fascinates authors and filmmakers and of course philosophers in all times. Have anyone heard about the theory of folds in time, it would be the moment where co-existing times meet and confuses everyone and everything. I know this is childish and maybe too simple for serious thinkers:naughty: but I love the films Back to the Future who are making fun of all this time theories but in a nice way. Well you're welcome. The Back to the Future movies are some of my favorite movies! Haha I like how it shows that if you change one little thing in your life it sets off a chain reaction (kind of) and basically changes the future no matter how small the change is. Because that's true really, if you think about it. If you change your mind about something and do one thing differently, then something else won't happen, and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouselle Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 I read a lot of SF and fantasy, and there are a lot of different ideas about how time and paradoxes might work. My favourite and simplest is time as a river or stream, where a talented person/alien could move up or downstream at will, but most of us are caught up in the current and move with the flow, helplessly dragged. So all of the stream exists all the time, but each one of us only perceives where we are right now. And some people look back, wishing they could get back to that nice spot they passed, or can't forget the lousy place they seemed stuck in, etc. People like me are trying to swim faster to get to the good stuff ahead, but the current drags you at the same speed regardless... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalas Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 I read a lot of SF and fantasy, and there are a lot of different ideas about how time and paradoxes might work. My favourite and simplest is time as a river or stream, where a talented person/alien could move up or downstream at will, but most of us are caught up in the current and move with the flow, helplessly dragged. So all of the stream exists all the time, but each one of us only perceives where we are right now. And some people look back, wishing they could get back to that nice spot they passed, or can't forget the lousy place they seemed stuck in, etc. People like me are trying to swim faster to get to the good stuff ahead, but the current drags you at the same speed regardless... Oh that was kind of cool... In what books do you find that opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flopii* Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 I think time is something really hard to understand and even more hard to explain. Because, how can I explain or talk about something which I can't even look at? Anything we can say about this is just a theory about what can it be, but nothing is sure. So, I have no idea what time is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikaholic Posted January 15, 2008 Author Share Posted January 15, 2008 I read a lot of SF and fantasy, and there are a lot of different ideas about how time and paradoxes might work. My favourite and simplest is time as a river or stream, where a talented person/alien could move up or downstream at will, but most of us are caught up in the current and move with the flow, helplessly dragged. So all of the stream exists all the time, but each one of us only perceives where we are right now. And some people look back, wishing they could get back to that nice spot they passed, or can't forget the lousy place they seemed stuck in, etc. People like me are trying to swim faster to get to the good stuff ahead, but the current drags you at the same speed regardless... I've heard of that one. I like it. It pretty much describes the whole thing without being confusing...which is much more than I can do. I agree with it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickadee Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 I have no idea about time in reality except as a measurement, but as an abstract concept in a book, I really like the "trousers of time" theory that Terry Pratchett uses in the Discworld series. Basically it says that there are many multiverses all existing at the same time, with other versions of yourself in these other multiverses (unless of course your other multiverse self died for some reason or other) and that a mutiverse exists for every possibility for every situation and that if you make a choice in a situation a bifurcation in time occurs and a multiverse then exists where you made a different choice with different consequences. The bifurcation is like where a pair of trousers splits from being all one piece (ie the waist area) to being two pieces (the trouser legs). That's why it's called the trousers of time theory. For example, you go to step out of a doorway. Your wife calls you back inside. You go back in and avoid being hit by a runaway cart (no cars on Discworld), and are able to go on with your life normally. A bifurcation would occur where you didn't go back in to you wife and got hit by the cart and were unable to work for example and your family had no income and you got evicted from your house and had to go live with your aunt's family in Quirm (a town). Or you got hit by the cart and died. Or whatever. Does that make any sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKateisaKate Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 I see your thoughts. We're reading Slaughterhouse 5 later this year, but another novel we actually just read that emphasizes Time: All The King's Men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikaholic Posted January 16, 2008 Author Share Posted January 16, 2008 Slaughterhouse Five is good. I read it a few years ago. I like that trouser theory. It makes sense, and it's pretty much what I was talking about. How one little thing can make a HUGE difference in life. Like your example of being called back into the house and not getting hit by a car. It makes so much sense, how one little thing can change your entire future. I think it's really cool to think that everything you do matters so much, even though it may be such a stupid little thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwalk174 Posted January 16, 2008 Share Posted January 16, 2008 i agree with you lollipop monkey, however, the 'referring to it as 'now'' i completely understand i first thought of the movie Donnie Darko when i read the first post, i watched that movie so many times to try and understand the concepts, then i had to remind myself that it was fiction, and pretty much gave up EDIT: i forgot to add that i think time is just a measurement, and that 'the past' only exists in our minds i love that movie:wub2: and i agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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