DerMoment1608 Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 (edited) Ennis is scared and surprised by what they have done and is saying the sentence pretty much to assure himself that this is a one timer… The problem I have for some days now is: Does he really says this? He says "This is a one shot thing we got going on here". Firstly, he says not "was" but "is" - he uses present and not past. Secondly, he uses a progressive form with "got going on". And didn't that mean, that "the thing" startet in the past but is going on in present too, a continuous thing? Doesn't the "is" and especially the "going" indicate continuation and not ending at this point? If he meant the last night, that it was a one timer what happened there, why didn't he say: "This was a one-shot thing last night"? The question for me is now: Did he mean, that the night before was a one timer? Or is he implying that their "thing" will continue the whole summer up on Brokeback - but not past the summer (that's why "one-shot"). The german dubbing implies for 100% that he is referring to the night in the tent (the "back-translation" would be something like "This was a one-shot thing that happened there"). So I never questioned it, although I mostly watch the original version. I never listen what words he really uses, I did know what he means because of the german dubbing, so I hear it. But now I had a second look at the actual words and I'm not sure anymore. For me the tenses he uses don't fit with the "one timer"-interpretation anymore. That's why I asked here. How would the "averageamerican" understand this sentence? Maybe I'm wrong with my thoughts about the tenses? Maybe the tenses aren't used in the correct way, like it's often in everyday-language? Or maybe the german tranlation is wrong ? Sorry, I opened a Brokeback-Discussion here Edited November 23, 2009 by DerMoment1608 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 The problem I have for some days now is: Does he really says this? He says "This is a one shot thing we got going on here". Firstly, he says not "was" but "is" - he uses present and not past. Secondly, he uses a progressive form with "got going on". And didn't that mean, that "the thing" startet in the past but is going on in present too, a continuous thing? If he meant the last night, that it was a one timer what happened there, why didn't he say: "This was a one-shot thing last night"? The question for me is now: Did he mean, that the night before was a one timer? Or is he implying that their "thing" will continue the whole summer up on Brokeback - but not past the summer (that's why "one-shot"). The german dubbing implies for 100% that he is referring to the night in the tent (the "back-translation" would be something like "This was a one-shot thing that happened there"). So I never questioned it, although I mostly watch the original version. I never listen what words he really uses, I did know what he means because of the german dubbing, so I hear it. But now I had a second look at the actual words and I'm not sure anymore. For me the tenses he uses don't fit with the "one timer"-interpretation anymore. That's why I asked here. How would the "averageamerican" understand this sentence? Maybe I'm wrong with my thoughts about the tenses? Maybe the tenses aren't used in the correct way, like it's often in everyday-language? Or maybe the german tranlation is wrong ? Sorry, I opened a Brokeback-Discussion here My goodness, so many questions I think you have to remember that you are dealing with two people here who aren't well educated, which is why you have a clumsy phrase like "got going on". And English speakers don't worry too much about whether they are using the correct tense, a lot of people (particularly from a rural background) will use present tense forms when speaking of past events (for example, "So I says to her" meaning "So I said to her". I think Sienna is correct in her interpretation: "Ennis is scared and surprised by what they have done and is saying the sentence pretty much to assure himself that this is a one timer…" He is saying "this thing that happened, it is (was) just the one time?" but I think the use of the present tense is suggesting that really he hopes it isn't The ambiguity may be deliberate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FREDDIESDOUBLE Posted November 23, 2009 Author Share Posted November 23, 2009 <leaves that one to silver> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sienna Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Sorry, I opened a Brokeback-Discussion here Anytime, anytime:wub2:...why don't we have a real thread for us Brokeback lovers? If you look at the movie in its whole, a great part of the storyline represents Ennis as the doubtful one; he has to be assured by Jack time after time that what they are doing is okay... I shudder by the very thought to be left to watch a movie which is dubbed you loose so much of the spirit of a film when you're not able to actually hear what they are saying, the tone of the voice, how they say a certain thing etc. To me it goes for any movie not only the English spoken ones. My goodness, so many questions I think you have to remember that you are dealing with two people here who aren't well educated, which is why you have a clumsy phrase like "got going on". And English speakers don't worry too much about whether they are using the correct tense, a lot of people (particularly from a rural background) will use present tense forms when speaking of past events (for example, "So I says to her" meaning "So I said to her". I think Sienna is correct in her interpretation: "Ennis is scared and surprised by what they have done and is saying the sentence pretty much to assure himself that this is a one timer…" He is saying "this thing that happened, it is (was) just the one time?" but I think the use of the present tense is suggesting that really he hopes it isn't The ambiguity may be deliberate. Thanks Silver, I always read your language explanation with great interest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruth Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Yes, it's definitely wrong. And Ruth is a teacher, you can trust her Well thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerMoment1608 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 (edited) why don't we have a real thread for us Brokeback lovers? A Brokeback-Mountain-Thread would be great ***** I think you have to remember that you are dealing with two people here who aren't well educated, which is why you have a clumsy phrase like "got going on". If you would neglegt the background ot them, if you would only look at this sentence and the grammar used in this sentence, would it be something that is happening at the present to? You know, I want to understand the grammar, because it's a difference (for me) if grammar and "feeling" of the film are telling the same (like it is with the german dubbing) or if grammar and feeling are telling different things. ***** After doing some research now - a lot of new questions. Some of them may sound silly, but I'm trying to understand the grammar step by step. Edit: "We got going on" is referred to a quote in "Brokeback Mountain": The two main characters (Ennis+Jack) had their first sex up in the mountains. Now is the next evening and they had "a little talk": Ennis: This is a one shot thing we got going on here. Jack: It's nobody's business but ours. Ennis: You know I ain't queer. Jack: Me neither. The interesting thing is, that Ennis says "we got going on here" in the film but in the screenplay "we got going here" is written. Now my questions: 1) Is "we got going on" an existing grammatical form at all? 2a) Is "we got going on" the short form of "we have got going on"? 2b) Is "we have going" a short form of "we have got going on"? 2c) Is the infinitiv of "we have got going on" "to have got going on"? 2d) Is "we have got going on" simple present? 2e) Is the "got" not a form of "get", but a "filling word" (I don't know how to call it) - like in "I have got a cat" for example? 3a) Only for affirmation: There is the phrase "to get going" in English and it means "to get started", right? 3b) The "real verb" in this phrase is "get"? 3c) So, if you would conjugate this phrase it would be "We get going" in simple present, "We got going" in simple past, "We will get going" in future, "We have got going" in present perfect etc. 3d) The "going" is not a real progressive form because it's part of the phrase? (I don't know how to say it better, hope you understand what I mean) 3e) Again only for affirmation: "I got going" would be simple past? 4a) Does a phrase like "to get going on" exists? 4b) If yes (or if not theoretically): Would "We got going on" be simple past? 4c) So, could "we got going on" be simple past if the origin is "to get going on" or simple present if the origin is "to have got going on" and the "have" is not enunciated? 5a) Are these thoughts rubbish, because a phrase like "to get going on" does not exists? 5b) Are these thoughts rubbish, because a phrase like "to have got going on" doesn't exists? 5c) Are these thougts rubbish, because both don't exist? 5d) Is there an other possible origin of "got going on"? I really get confused with the english language I know, theses are a lot of questions, but you would be a big help for me if you would answer them Edited November 25, 2009 by DerMoment1608 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 A Brokeback-Mountain-Thread would be great ***** If you would neglegt the background ot them, if you would only look at this sentence and the grammar used in this sentence, would it be something that is happening at the present to? You know, I want to understand the grammar, because it's a difference (for me) if grammar and "feeling" of the film are telling the same (like it is with the german dubbing) or if grammar and feeling are telling different things. ***** After doing some research now - a lot of new questions. Some of them may sound silly, but I'm trying to understand the grammar step by step. 1) Is "we got going on" an existing grammatical form at all? 2a) Is "we got going on" the short form of "we have got going on"? 2b) Is "we have going" a short form of "we have got going on"? 2c) Is the infinitiv of "we have got going on" "to have got going on"? 2d) Is "we have got going on" simple present? 2e) Is the "got" not a form of "get", but a "filling word" (I don't know how to call it) - like in "I have got a cat" for example? 3a) Only for affirmation: There is the phrase "to get going" in English and it means "to get started", right? 3b) The "real verb" in this phrase is "get"? 3c) So, if you would conjugate this phrase it would be "We get going" in simple present, "We got going" in simple past, "We will get going" in future, "We have got going" in present perfect etc. 3d) The "going" is not a real progressive form because it's part of the phrase? (I don't know how to say it better, hope you understand what I mean) 3e) Again only for affirmation: "I got going" would be simple past? 4a) Does a phrase like "to get going on" exists? 4b) If yes (or if not theoretically): Would "We got going on" be simple past? 4c) So, could "we got going on" be simple past if the origin is "to get going on" or simple present if the origin is "to have got going on" and the "have" is not enunciated? 5a) Are these thoughts rubbish, because a phrase like "to get going on" does not exists? 5b) Are these thoughts rubbish, because a phrase like "to have got going on" doesn't exists? 5c) Are these thougts rubbish, because both don't exist? 5d) Is there an other possible origin of "got going on"? I really get confused with the english language I know, theses are a lot of questions, but you would be a big help for me if you would answer them I don't think I can tackle that list tonight. Help anybody? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerMoment1608 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 I don't think I can tackle that list tonight. Help anybody? I would be great if I get an answer So it isn't so important when. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruth Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 ***** After doing some research now - a lot of new questions. Some of them may sound silly, but I'm trying to understand the grammar step by step. 1) Is "we got going on" an existing grammatical form at all? 2a) Is "we got going on" the short form of "we have got going on"? 2b) Is "we have going" a short form of "we have got going on"? 2c) Is the infinitiv of "we have got going on" "to have got going on"? 2d) Is "we have got going on" simple present? 2e) Is the "got" not a form of "get", but a "filling word" (I don't know how to call it) - like in "I have got a cat" for example? 3a) Only for affirmation: There is the phrase "to get going" in English and it means "to get started", right? 3b) The "real verb" in this phrase is "get"? 3c) So, if you would conjugate this phrase it would be "We get going" in simple present, "We got going" in simple past, "We will get going" in future, "We have got going" in present perfect etc. 3d) The "going" is not a real progressive form because it's part of the phrase? (I don't know how to say it better, hope you understand what I mean) 3e) Again only for affirmation: "I got going" would be simple past? 4a) Does a phrase like "to get going on" exists? 4b) If yes (or if not theoretically): Would "We got going on" be simple past? 4c) So, could "we got going on" be simple past if the origin is "to get going on" or simple present if the origin is "to have got going on" and the "have" is not enunciated? 5a) Are these thoughts rubbish, because a phrase like "to get going on" does not exists? 5b) Are these thoughts rubbish, because a phrase like "to have got going on" doesn't exists? 5c) Are these thougts rubbish, because both don't exist? 5d) Is there an other possible origin of "got going on"? I really get confused with the english language I know, theses are a lot of questions, but you would be a big help for me if you would answer them Blimey! Can I sleep on it too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FREDDIESDOUBLE Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share Posted November 25, 2009 Wow Im awake and still need time .. great questions:thumb_yello: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CazGirl Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 A Brokeback-Mountain-Thread would be great ***** If you would neglegt the background ot them, if you would only look at this sentence and the grammar used in this sentence, would it be something that is happening at the present to? You know, I want to understand the grammar, because it's a difference (for me) if grammar and "feeling" of the film are telling the same (like it is with the german dubbing) or if grammar and feeling are telling different things. ***** After doing some research now - a lot of new questions. Some of them may sound silly, but I'm trying to understand the grammar step by step. 1) Is "we got going on" an existing grammatical form at all? 2a) Is "we got going on" the short form of "we have got going on"? 2b) Is "we have going" a short form of "we have got going on"? 2c) Is the infinitiv of "we have got going on" "to have got going on"? 2d) Is "we have got going on" simple present? 2e) Is the "got" not a form of "get", but a "filling word" (I don't know how to call it) - like in "I have got a cat" for example? 3a) Only for affirmation: There is the phrase "to get going" in English and it means "to get started", right? 3b) The "real verb" in this phrase is "get"? 3c) So, if you would conjugate this phrase it would be "We get going" in simple present, "We got going" in simple past, "We will get going" in future, "We have got going" in present perfect etc. 3d) The "going" is not a real progressive form because it's part of the phrase? (I don't know how to say it better, hope you understand what I mean) 3e) Again only for affirmation: "I got going" would be simple past? 4a) Does a phrase like "to get going on" exists? 4b) If yes (or if not theoretically): Would "We got going on" be simple past? 4c) So, could "we got going on" be simple past if the origin is "to get going on" or simple present if the origin is "to have got going on" and the "have" is not enunciated? 5a) Are these thoughts rubbish, because a phrase like "to get going on" does not exists? 5b) Are these thoughts rubbish, because a phrase like "to have got going on" doesn't exists? 5c) Are these thougts rubbish, because both don't exist? 5d) Is there an other possible origin of "got going on"? I really get confused with the english language I know, theses are a lot of questions, but you would be a big help for me if you would answer them "We got going on"? In what context? Please put it in a sentence. For example... Person 1. I can't believe we did that! Person 2. Yeah! We got it going on! It really just means that you have it good right now. "Get going" can mean a couple of things. If a teacher says it to a pupil in class, it means "get started." If you're saying it to a person who's being rude to you, it means "get lost" You don't say "we have got going". you say "we had gone" or "we went". does any of this make sense? Your post baffled me. I've considered myself bamboozled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FREDDIESDOUBLE Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share Posted November 25, 2009 yehhh cazgirl can answer Shes speaks "queens" english after all .. ish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CazGirl Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 yehhh cazgirl can answer Shes speaks "queens" english after all .. ish ROFL you're having a laugh, right? competition winners have been announced by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FREDDIESDOUBLE Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share Posted November 25, 2009 ROFL you're having a laugh, right? competition winners have been announced by the way. Ohh cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerMoment1608 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 "We got going on"? In what context? Please put it in a sentence. It's used in the "Brokeback Moutain"-quote I asked a question before. Sorry, I should have said, that these questions are referred to it. The two main characters (Ennis+Jack) had their first sex up in the mountains. Now is the next evening and they had "a little talk": Ennis: This is a one shot thing we got going on here. Jack: It's nobody's business but ours. Ennis: You know I ain't queer. Jack: Me neither. The interesting thing is, that Ennis says "we got going on here" in the film but in the screenplay "we got going here" is written. On thought of me was, that may some confusion is based on that. If you're saying it to a person who's being rude to you, it means "get lost" I like this explanation One that doesn't confuse me Shame, that I can say for sure that's not the context. Your post baffled me. I think my post is baffling because I am baffled myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruth Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I think the Americans use 'got' and 'gotten' a lot more than British English. In fact (in the old days) at school we used to do exercises where we replaced the word 'got' with s.th. more precise, as if 'got' was a bad word. So when Pres. Bush used to speak all folksy and use 'gotten', it sounded bad to me, we never say gotten. Got is already past tense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I think that "got" is being used as a contraction for "we have got" but I'm not sure that the meaning is any clearer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purplegrape Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I think that "got" is being used as a contraction for "we have got" but I'm not sure that the meaning is any clearer. Actually, it could probably be replaced with just the word "have." Dunno if that helps any tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I think I will do these one at a time. 1) Is "we got going on" an existing grammatical form at all? It's not grammatically correct English, if that's what you mean, but it is a form of speech that some people use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Actually, it could probably be replaced with just the word "have."Dunno if that helps any tho. That had occurred to me too - I think the author was going for "cowboy speak" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purplegrape Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 That had occurred to me too - I think the author was going for "cowboy speak" that's what it sounds like to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruth Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Yes, that's exactly it. Not the Queen's English but Cowboy Speak! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 2a) Is "we got going on" the short form of "we have got going on"?2b) Is "we have going" a short form of "we have got going on"? 2c) Is the infinitiv of "we have got going on" "to have got going on"? 2d) Is "we have got going on" simple present? 2e) Is the "got" not a form of "get", but a "filling word" (I don't know how to call it) - like in "I have got a cat" for example? a) Yes b) I would say that "we have going on" is the correct form, to me "we have got going on" is a clumsy form used by someone not very literate c) No - well technically it would be, but I don't think it would be an expression used by most English speakers, we would drop the "got". d) No - it's complicated present e) Yes - it's a filler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruth Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I've just remembered: in the north (UK) we say ''gett'n.'' As in ''I've gett'n a bellywarch.'' (I have stomach ache) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I've just remembered: in the north (UK) we say ''gett'n.'' As in ''I've gett'n a bellywarch.'' (I have stomach ache) Ruth - don't confuse things with dialect, cowboy is hard enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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