Petra Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 The music business is, very apparently, divided into two groups - recorded music & live music. The recorded music business is, traditionally seen, the business of the record companies. Record companies invest in artists. A label's traditional field of work is to discover music acts, sign and promote them and finally produce and distribute their recorded music. A label is primarily responsible for the beginning of the process – they invest in bands, finance them and make them big through marketing. The success an artist has finally decides whether or not the label's investments were justifieable because they make their money by selling CDs. So A&R guys from record companies hang out in small venues and clubs, find 'the next big thing', sign the band and the label starts investing into promotion and marketing. The band's contract basically says that they get an advance from the labels to record an album and the label then obligates (?) itself to promote everything. This advance is the capital that is needed to fund the artist's start-up in the business. Labels invest in artists and make artists big. It a shame how much everything depends on marketing these days. There are FANTASTIC singer/songwriters that are not big because they dont get the marketing they would deserve. However, labels and the promo they make often just ram bands down our throats until we simply believe that they are good / better than the rest although they not necessarily are. No offence to anyone but would Lady Gaga be as famous as she is if it wasn't for damn good marketing? After all, the labels agree to pay the act a specific amount of the income that is generated by the exploitation of the music (the royalities). CD sales were the golden goose for record companies but thanks to digitalisation etc.pp. recorded music has become less and less important and profitable in the last years. Touring, however, has become more important. The live side has until now not been a part of the core activities of a record label but some labels are now trying to tap into theses revenues as well by offering so-called 360°-deals for artists (this basically just means that the artist is booked, managed and promoted and marketed by just one single company). The first one to allow their label to profit from live shows was Robbie Williams with his 80 mio pound deal with EMI. I'm not sure if labels should be allowed to have a share in live . It is of course true that the labels doesnt have ANYTHING to do with your live performances and there are lots and lots of books that tell you to never ever allow your label to profit from the revenues of touring. However, on the other side - it is the label that invested in you and it seems kind of unfair to NOT let the label profit from all of the profits you make now . Anyway, the live side. Traditionally, the live side is not the business of labels. The people that are involved here are the artists (obviously), promoters and booking agencies (and merch people, securities, backline crew, venue owners, ticket sellers etc.). Promoters 'hire' the act for a tour or one night. Full stop. The booking agent liaises with the bands and promoters. The promoter makes sure the tickets sell well and is responsible for the advertisement of a show. There are no advances here like in the recorded sector, nobody invests in the shows in the hope that they will support the album sales and everything really needs to be profitable from the beginning on. Mika is signed to Islands and as far as I know, Islands has no f. business in live. Mika's booking agency was or is Coda - I have no idea how things look like now. I know there were problems with Coda and that it was thought about changing the agency but I have no idea how the thing ended. It could also be that Mika founded his own touring company (I wouldnt wonder because he tours a LOT and it wouldnt be a stupid thought to try and save the 10% commission of his artist fee which he'd otherwise have to pay to his booking agent. And then Mika likes to have things under control and I really wouldnt wonder if that ended up in forming a family-run touring company. I have nfi though.). Australia is without doubt a big country and not just an island somewhere in the south I hope you can read that. It's a table about global recorded music shares from 2006: Country ......Mio US$ ......Percentage USA ...... $9.651,40...... 34,30% Others...... $4.554,40...... 16,20% Japan ......$4.495,20 ......16,00% UK ......$3.051,10 ......10,80% Germany...... $2.029,10 ......7,20% France ......$1.661,70...... 5,90% Canada...... $667,80 ......2,40% Australia...... ......$583,60 ......2,10% Italy ......$556,90 ......2,00% Spain ......$464,80 ......1,70% Russia ......$405,00 ......1,40% Australia is a strong market and it makes sense for labels to invest in promo there. Flying Mika over for some promo is easy and doesnt cost the world. But making him tour there is a different thing of course. Bianca once told me that ticket prices for European acts are higher than for Australian acts and that seems very reasonable as a lot of money is needed to ship the equipment, the entire band and the crew over. I know that there are a lot of British bands that fly to Mexico or South America for ONE show and get an awful lot of money for that (and the promoters then usually also pay for hotels and airfares). I dont know about Australia though but I would just assume that the artist fee is about the same as in Europe. Of course it's about the money. But it is not entirely about the money. Someone that argues that it is the label that wants to make profit from that is wrong because the labels arent involved here. Labels make profit with CD sales and royalities. Those involved in touring are the agent (that tries to get a high fee for the artist so that the commission is high) and the promoter (who wants a nice promoter fee). Of course an artist is allowed to say where he wants to go - but that does of course not necessarily mean that he really ends up going there because there is still the need for a willing promote and then of course the booking agent who decides whether or not it is halfway profitable or makes sense. I'm not sure if taking the 'small acoustic shows in tiny theatres all around the world'-tour to Australia would have been profitable though. Tiny acoustic shows usually don't go with venues of 3,000+ capacity and maybe a venue like this would have been needed to finance the whole project of flying in and flying out again. MAYBE Mika would have sold it out in a 3,000+ venue though (well, why not?) but it is true that he hasnt done anything proper which the non-MFCer would have necessarily noticed in the last year :think1:. Of course it would be a good argument to say now that they also shipped everything to LA and NY for ONE show in a small venue. This is true and it's confusing me the more I think about it. The USA are (is?) the strongest music market in the world but that doesnt mean that a sold-out 800-peopple venue in LA brings in more money (esp. if the tickets are for free ) than a 800-venue in Sydney. Very very confusing actually . I dont know where the "He's already losing cash with these small shows as it is. I wouldn't want him to lose out even more. " comes from though - did Mika or anyone else say anything? I'm very very very sure he did not lose cash. And in the end touring gets cheaper with even more touring and I do, for my life, absolutely not understand why the heck acts dont play more shows when they are playing in Australia or South America or so . I'm sure there is a good reason though like promoters that are not willing to take the risk or whatever. NFI. Mika should come back and I am also sure that he'd sell out very quickly. Look at the Kooks, look at MGMT. They had NO problems selling out within mere hours . Mika would, too. I'm confused now and I dont know what point I was actually trying to make. And I feel stupid now for writing all of this but I'll post it anyway because otherwise the last hour was wasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petra Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Well if that's what you meant, it was unfortunate that you said stfu. Most of the internet shortenings I naturally don't take literally, but stfu means stfu to most people. And when I said before that you could have been assertive without being aggressive, posting something like "Let's stop talking about it now" would have done beautifully. With a please thrown in so people didn't complain that you were bossing them around perhaps, but anyway... I have to say that if I'm any indication of how others read it, I thought you were being rude and on purpose. I was a little surprised, but presumed that you felt incredibly strongly to use that phrase. Do you think maybe you should pm her an explanation? Better not . Things are messed up the way they are and PMing around woudnt help (No idea though.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelzy Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Uhm, can I rant a bit? (Just some general things.) (It doesnt necessarily have to do something with those things that were said but anyway.) *goes to type* *waits for rant* You're in the right thread for it. You do that Kelz !!! *goes to scratch & wait* I will! *scratches something down under* I got the impression that the missed plane was suppose to be for Melbourne. There was only one that was coming here, but a couple of Sydney ones. So, as for flying direct to your destination goes.. that was the one he missed. And another one direct to Melb would've been a longer wait. But still, he could've been meant to get on a Sydney flight to start with and was lucky to get into a later one so quickly. *still waits* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickadee Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Petra, that was brilliant. I didn't know all that stuff, so you have definitely not wasted the last hour. I'm curious to know who constitutes "other" in your table. Do they mean the rest of the world? If so, that's incredible. And by the look of that table, Lena really should be getting a tour soon as well. I'm really surprised to see Russia that high, but there you go. Live and learn. Oh and as for the comment about Mika losing money on those shows, I thought he'd actually said it somewhere himself, but I don't recall where and am not sure if I'm mis-remembering:blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petra Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 I got it from here: http://www.riaj.or.jp/e/issue/pdf/RIAJ2008E.pdf No idea who 'Others' is though . As far as I know, all eastern states as well as Russia and China are having a massive potential to become extremely strong markets in the next years. I have no idea though whether one can say that strong recorded music markets are also strong live markets though (I'd say so but I'm not 100% sure. I asked someone that works in the business and she said she wouldnt have any idea, too.). There are no useful statistics about live . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouselle Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 I second the thanks for the info Petra. Its all very complex and the average person (me!) has no idea what drives the music economy. Thanks heaps for taking the time to explain some of the detail! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelzy Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 (edited) I'm not going to quote you Petra, but I read all that and you've raised some valid points. Mika is extravagant. In alot of ways. And places. And it's not too hard to see from over here how extravagant he is. And it's not too much of a stretch to think he'd be extravagant here too. The reason why I believe touring is important for all artists (and a stupid thing not to take advantage of) is, because, at each concert you go to there is bound to be a heap of people who bought tickets just because they like a few songs. These people, more often than not, leave the concert and purchase merchandise and CD's soon after. I'll use Bon Jovi as a really good example because I can't think of any one else (though there'd be plenty other examples for sure) (and I love them and knew about this. ) BON JOVI BACK ON TOP DOWN UNDER Rockers BON JOVI's first Australian stadium tour in seven years has given the band a sales boost Down Under. The group recently played sold out shows all over Australia, prompting fans to rush out and buy up their back catalogue. Eight Bon Jovi albums have crashed into the Australian Recording Industry Association (ARIA) Top 100, with the group's Slippery When Wet CD hitting the new countdown at 28. Keep The Faith and New Jersey also make the new top 50, while live album Cross Road re-enters the chart at 57, followed by 1995's These Days at 58 and the band's eponymous 1984 debut at 59. I know Mika and Bon Jovi's successes don't compare, but it's sums up what I mean.. EDIT: But, Bon Jovi were on tour for their album at the time, though we weren't first on the list of places they toured. Edited June 28, 2009 by Kelzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petra Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 I'm not going to quote you Petra, but I read all that and you've raised some valid points. Mika is extravagant. In alot of ways. And places. And it's not too hard to see from over here how extravagant he is. And it's not too much of a stretch to think he'd be extravagant here too. The reason why I believe touring is important for all artists (and a stupid thing not to take advantage of) is, because, at each concert you go to there is bound to be a heap of people who bought tickets just because they like a few songs. These people, more often than not, leave the concert and purchase merchandise and CD's soon after. I'll use Bon Jovi as a really good example because I can't think of any one else (though there'd be plenty other examples for sure) (and I love them and knew about this. ) BON JOVI BACK ON TOP DOWN UNDER Rockers BON JOVI's first Australian stadium tour in seven years has given the band a sales boost Down Under. The group recently played sold out shows all over Australia, prompting fans to rush out and buy up their back catalogue. Eight Bon Jovi albums have crashed into the Australian Recording Industry Association (ARIA) Top 100, with the group's Slippery When Wet CD hitting the new countdown at 28. Keep The Faith and New Jersey also make the new top 50, while live album Cross Road re-enters the chart at 57, followed by 1995's These Days at 58 and the band's eponymous 1984 debut at 59. I know Mika and Bon Jovi's successes don't compare, but it's sums up what I mean.. EDIT: But, Bon Jovi were on tour for their album at the time, though we weren't first on the list of places they toured. Exactly!! In earlier days, touring was just see as some sort of support for the album but it was never really important. But touring got more and more important for the artists now and, with record sales going down, it is their main source of income. And it supports record sales. Didnt Mika's album get back into the French charts when he toured France last year? Bon Jovi is great. The thing is just that my sister was a massive fan once and so *I* couldnt (didnt want to) fan him (or rather them), too. I know Bon Jovi is massive and that they have fantastic songs but I never really checked them out properly (it's all my sister's fault ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakie Doke Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 I hope you turned that into your now complete introduction :sneaky2: I didn't even know that's how it worked between promoters and booking agencies And I too am surprised by Russia. Although a thing to consider, especially in relation to Mika, is that each country is probably putting that money into different markets. Like America is very self-centred and foreign artists always have trouble making it big over there, and foreign-language countries (specifically ones that not a lot of people speak fluent english in, like Japan or Russia(I guess)) probably have larger amounts going to musicians from their own country. I know all my friends at uni are all massively into cantonese bands Basically - just because Russia is a big player in the world, maybe not such a big player in Mika. But something else I was going to add in the twitter thread but then my phone rang and I didn't want to add an edit 20 minutes later - about us whining all the time even though other countries haven't been toured either - Maybe the fact that our whining is so well known around the forum isn't that Aussies are particularly whiney people, but that there are just MORE of us here, so our whining is therefore ... more. That could either indicate that we should be toured more than the other countries don't have as many fans as us, or that those countries can't speak english so they don't come on the forum oh, how much I hate that then. You just dont come back to a thread / you dont reply to stupid emails just because you cant be arsed / dont have time / whatever and then people think that you didnt come back because they obviously managed to prove (sp?) their point, convert you, show you who is right or something. I have hotmail open. ... but I can't be arsed, i'll do it in a minute Well if that's what you meant, it was unfortunate that you said stfu. Most of the internet shortenings I naturally don't take literally, but stfu means stfu to most people. And when I said before that you could have been assertive without being aggressive, posting something like "Let's stop talking about it now" would have done beautifully. With a please thrown in so people didn't complain that you were bossing them around perhaps, but anyway... I have to say that if I'm any indication of how others read it, I thought you were being rude and on purpose. I was a little surprised, but presumed that you felt incredibly strongly to use that phrase. Do you think maybe you should pm her an explanation? In hindsight I would've changed it, but didn't I write that at like 1am or something? If I remember correctly I think it said shut up and then I changed it to stfu because to me it sounded less aggressive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakie Doke Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 That's perfect Kelzy, that's exactly what I think would happen with Mika, people would totally forget that he dissappeared for a few years if they could see him live. And that is exactly what I am like, I can only fan bands after I have seen them live. Mika and the Kooks are the only artists I ever liked a lot before seeing live. And the Grates and Something with Numbers I guess, but I've watched sooo many youtubes of them But there's heaps of bands that I've just been to because Dani wanted to go even though I'd never heard of them and then afterwards I was a massive fan. Same for support acts. Live shows definitely do wonders for popularity and record sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakie Doke Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Even Dani would come to see Mika if he came to Perth, and not just because I'd make her. I think with Mika he is a level of "embarrassing to like", and his music is mainstream, which isn't cool to like. And his music is overly poppy, which also isn't cool to like. But he is a good artist and a good performer and even Dani, who always says Mika is girly, Mika is lame, also says Mika would be awesome live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickadee Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 OKD, you're a nut! Anyway... I have a whole bunch of ironing to do, so I'd better scoot for now. I'll probably check in later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petra Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 I hope you turned that into your now complete introduction :sneaky2: I am so totally stuck !!!! I have hotmail open. ... but I can't be arsed, i'll do it in a minute Haha, no, I was absolutely not talking about you here. I was thinking about that ****er on Youtube. I have to work and write applications. Working isnt working, so maybe I should really try my luck with applications. ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakie Doke Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 CD, why don't you leave your daughter with us, we'll have a fine conversation about picnics I am so totally stuck !!!! No way! What you wrote then was an awesome start to an introduction! Just expand! Haha, no, I was absolutely not talking about you here. I was thinking about that ****er on Youtube. Haha, oh that ****er. My ****er never replied to your comment, what a wimp. I really wanted him to so I could have a go too, but I can't comment just after you, it'll look like I'm just ganging up or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakie Doke Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Oh btw i got your package petra and my dad didn't even tell me! What a slag! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakie Doke Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Mfc why are you turning my capitals into lowercase, this is a shouting matter! Let me shout you slag! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakie Doke Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 mfc i do not approve of your grammatical censorship! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakie Doke Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 So when it's in size 4 you're not even allowed to have the first letter capitalised Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petra Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 So when it's in size 4 you're not even allowed to have the first letter capitalised Postwhore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mouselle Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Exactly!! In earlier days, touring was just see as some sort of support for the album but it was never really important. But touring got more and more important for the artists now and, with record sales going down, it is their main source of income. And it supports record sales. Didnt Mika's album get back into the French charts when he toured France last year? Bon Jovi is great. The thing is just that my sister was a massive fan once and so *I* couldnt (didnt want to) fan him (or rather them), too. I know Bon Jovi is massive and that they have fantastic songs but I never really checked them out properly (it's all my sister's fault ). If you ever notice the number of bands touring on the strength of the one single they had 10 years ago, you start to realise that touring is actually a great way to make lots of money, for not too much extra effort. (ie songs and album are already made) That is, if you like playing live,and you don't truck too big a show around with you. Even if you have a huge show, a well managed tour is a great money-spinner. Badly managed extravagent ones can bankrupt a band/artist.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petra Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Mfc why are you turning my capitals into lowercase, this is a shouting matter! Let me shout you slag! Awwwwwwwwwwww! Finally! I was really wondering! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakie Doke Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Awwwwwwwwwwww! Finally! I was really wondering! And the shirt fits perfectly, thank youuu! :fangurl: If you ever notice the number of bands touring on the strength of the one single they had 10 years ago, you start to realise that touring is actually a great way to make lots of money, for not too much extra effort. (ie songs and album are already made)That is, if you like playing live,and you don't truck too big a show around with you. Even if you have a huge show, a well managed tour is a great money-spinner. Badly managed extravagent ones can bankrupt a band/artist.... And to be honest, all I want is a confetti cannon and some balloons, how much does that cost? Actually, Mika has these supposedly sooo extravagant expensive tours that he "doesn't make money off" - how much could he really possibly spend on each one? How much does a confetti cannon and some balloons cost? The costumes were surely made by his mum, renting the animal suits couldn't cost more than one ticket to the show each, what the hell? He can make clowny Luna Park rip offs for one show all he likes, I'm certain he doesn't spend more than a couple hundred dollars more on each normal show than ANY other bands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickadee Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 OKD, the only problem with leaving my daughter with you for a conversation about picnics is that she's typing. She's 4. She can't read or spell yet, and if I didn't write down what she was saying as she was typing, no one would have a clue! I got thinking about the kinds of bands that come to Aus and do tours. Do we have a kind of music culture in Aus that means certain types of bands will do well and others won't? Is Mika "mainstream" enough? I do realise that we are a diverse country with many different tastes etc and that in theory there is a market for almost anyone, but I'm just floating the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoZo_the_Terrible! Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Hey fellow Aussie Mikamites... For all of you that don't know my name is Zoe and I'm Tegan's (aka nicocollard's sister). Hopefully this isn't something that's already been told but lately Tegan's been suffering from major migraine's for the last 2 weeks... and today she was taken to hospital after a seizure. She is intensive care and after a heap of scans it looks like she has had a stroke at the tender age of 25. Now, the main reason I'm here is not just to let you guys know but to also organise something special for Tegan, who will be doing it tough for a while... So, I was wondering if anyone would like to either send me wishes for Tegan via email ( zoetownsend@bigpond.com ) or via snail mail so I can give her a huge present and love from all her fav peeps... If you guys do want to send me something snail mail wise then just PM me and I'll give you my address... or if you want to call and ask directly, I'll send you all my phone number through PM's too... Please, if you guys can keep Tegan in your thoughts, it would be greatly appreciated... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soangel Posted June 28, 2009 Share Posted June 28, 2009 Hey fellow Aussie Mikamites... For all of you that don't know my name is Zoe and I'm Tegan's (aka nicocollard's sister). Hopefully this isn't something that's already been told but lately Tegan's been suffering from major migraine's for the last 2 weeks... and today she was taken to hospital after a seizure. She is intensive care and after a heap of scans it looks like she has had a stroke at the tender age of 25. Now, the main reason I'm here is not just to let you guys know but to also organise something special for Tegan, who will be doing it tough for a while... So, I was wondering if anyone would like to either send me wishes for Tegan via email ( zoetownsend@bigpond.com ) or via snail mail so I can give her a huge present and love from all her fav peeps... If you guys do want to send me something snail mail wise then just PM me and I'll give you my address... or if you want to call and ask directly, I'll send you all my phone number through PM's too... Please, if you guys can keep Tegan in your thoughts, it would be greatly appreciated... OMFG.. poor Teegs. Okay I am up for sending something via snail mail, will pm you. Wow. I don't know what to say. Wow. Let her know our thoughts are with her, and we're sending hope her way. And I'll try to send something in the next few days to let her know I'm thinking of her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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