Tone on the Mfc

[xBillyBrownx]

Who is that directed at and what about?

 

 

You The quote thingie.. Nvm

[Niki27]

Its just a suggestion

 

The posts need to be highlighted first of all .. Im not sure if this is happening

 

I still dont know what is behind all this for example

 

I agree with FD on this point, Pink, maybe you should tell us clearly what somehow made you decide to open this thread.

Some event must have been the trigger, but we can't do anything unless we get full information.

 

 

And to Petra>> there's a grumpy smurf, watch out for him, he's a Sh*t-stirrer

[Christine]

First, I know that setting up a subforum on music/lyrics is on deano's to-do list, but I think he's been preoccupied with more pressing matters lately. Hopefully soon he'll have a chance to address that issue.

 

Yes Freddie mentioned it was being looked at and I realize it will take some time. It would be great to have in place once the album comes out.

 

 

Secondly, about the mission statement -- well, I've mentioned before that we could use some very general forum guidelines

but I've been told that they wouldn't work.

 

It's not a panacea for all that could potentially ail the board but I think it would be helpful for the mods and the regular posters to all be on the same page and be able to encourage newbies in the right direction.

[pinkunicorn123]

Its just a suggestion

 

The posts need to be highlighted first of all .. Im not sure if this is happening

 

I still dont know what is behind all this for example

 

What is behind it?

A collection of incidents i have seen and overlooked over a long long period.

The fact that FOUR members saw it fit to contact me personally over the last 48hrs saying that they only felt comfortable coming to me and not a more senior member for a variety of reasons including not wanting to cause trouble, because they were relitavely 'new' and did not want to cross the line with respected members and that apparently i am lovely and brilliant and always know the right thing to say.

I mean ofcourse they all must be lying if that is their opinion of me, but i thought i would open this anyway just to be sure...

 

No, in all seriousness, i am not willing to betray trust by discussing who these members were, but i have witnessed this happening before and i am not one to stand by and not afraid of a little trouble, as i am sure you can see.

[Mika Freaka =)]

i agree with the topic and i just wanna say sorry if i ever indirectly hurt someones feelings:wub2:

[dcdeb]

I'd also like to know what brought this on... you referred to

specific incidents in your first post, PU -- where members were

being "victimized", which is a pretty strong accusation.

 

So, where are they? Can you help me out and point to at least

one that caught your attention? Because even though we

don't have strict rules, when anyone registers here, they do

agree to abide by certain standards:

 

 

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If anyone has been hateful or threatening, we need to know about

it. If they have been persistently teasing or aggressive toward

an individual, I'd like to know it.

 

We moderators can't read everything, but we do try to read

almost everything -- but if we've missed something this serious,

we could use some help in seeing what it is.

 

dcdeb

[Diana]

We moderators can't read everything, but we do try to read

almost everything -- but if we've missed something this serious,

we could use some help in seeing what it is.

 

Yeah we need your help!

 

http://www.mikafanclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13125

[Akim]

Its a shame that what started off as advice has turned into an argument: but thats what you get on a forum with more then 7000 members!

 

There are however some very good pointers: (sorry I will be repeating what has already been said!)

• Specific arguments should be reported; when you have a "third" party with an objective/neutral position the end decision is more easily accepted by both parties.
  
• There was adivce suggesting to "avoid" threads/posts where you feel you are being attacked, victimised etc- it really isn't worth letting yourself getting upset over eps. when you hardly know the person (in most cases that is) and EVERYONE is entitled to their opininon.

I'm surprised that a lot people have said that they haven't noticed much negativity on the forum, I see that as a good thing though (hopefully it suggests that it isn't as widespread) but as someone who has been on the recieving end- I can vouch that there is and it isn't plesant...

 

On the whole, I find this forum an excellent resource for information (gig reports, Photos, reviews) and opinions- but there's always room to improve- isn't there a section devoted for ideas and suggestions somewhere???

[Christine]

No, in all seriousness, i am not willing to betray trust by discussing who these members were, but i have witnessed this happening before and i am not one to stand by and not afraid of a little trouble, as i am sure you can see.

 

But can't you at least send a PM to the mods with the threads in question so they can have some indication of where problems may exist even if they don't know who is making the complaint?

 

These threads that make vague references to conflict don't effect any change because 99% of us never know what the problem is and therefore can't possibly correct it or avoid it in the future.

[Petra]

I agree with FD on this point, Pink, maybe you should tell us clearly what somehow made you decide to open this thread.

Some event must have been the trigger, but we can't do anything unless we get full information.

 

It wasn't really one single event but a whole lot of happenings over the last weeks. Posts in threads, people with 5,000+ posts suddenly being away, myspace messages, various PMs, people being totally lost because they had obviously done something evil they weren't aware of, people absolutely unwilling to tell their opinion on things because they feared being yelled at directly... lots of things. I'm glad Pink had the guts to open a thread like this.

[pinkunicorn123]

I'd also like to know what brought this on... you referred to

a specific incidents in your first post, PU -- where members were

being "victimized", which is a pretty strong accusation.

 

So, where are they? Can you help me out and point to at least

one that caught your attention? Because even though we

don't have strict rules, when anyone registers here, they do

agree to abide by certain standards:

 

If anyone has been hateful or threatening, we need to know about

it. If they have been persistently teasing or aggressive toward

an individual, I'd like to know it.

 

We moderators can't read everything, but we do try to read

almost everything -- but if we've missed something this serious,

we could use some help in seeing what it is.

 

dcdeb

 

Well im sorry, but i wont do that.

If it was one person, then okay, some incidents are 'one offs' but it was the fact that it was FOUR! Four within such a small amount of time.

For some reason they wouldn't come to you, and so why would i pass that information on?

[xBillyBrownx]

Well im sorry, but i wont do that.

If it was one person, then okay, some incidents are 'one offs' but it was the fact that it was FOUR! Four within such a small amount of time.

For some reason they wouldn't come to you, and so why would i pass that information on?

 

 

I find that quite strange. I think it's very brave of you to have done that.

[dcdeb]

It wasn't really one single event but a whole lot of happenings over the last weeks. Posts in threads, people with 5,000+ posts suddenly being away, myspace messages, various PMs, people being totally lost because they had obviously done something evil they weren't aware of, people absolutely unwilling to tell their opinion on things because they feared being yelled at directly... lots of things. I'm glad Pink had the guts to open a thread like this.

 

Well, we can't do anything about myspace messages or PMs,

as they are not on the open forum...

 

Well im sorry, but i wont do that.

If it was one person, then okay, some incidents are 'one offs' but it was the fact that it was FOUR! Four within such a small amount of time.

For some reason they wouldn't come to you, and so why would i pass that information on?

 

I wasn't looking for names of people who contacted you, I

was looking for instances that you observed. Obviously you

feel you can't point to anything without giving away the

individuals... which is unfortunate, because then how can I

or the other moderators do anything about it?

 

I'm troubled that these members felt more comfortable going to

you instead of a moderator whose responsibility it is to

moderate the forum... I don't know how to be any more

welcoming or nicer than I am, but I guess I have to work on

my people skills.

 

dcdeb

[Oakie Doke]

I think it's worth discussing but every time a thread like this comes up it usually makes vague references to incidents most people are unaware of so not much comes out of it. I don't know what we're really talking about here and I didn't understand what Melanie was talking about when she started a similar thread a few weeks ago.

Now I get regular long time members leaving with comments that theyve been attacked or bullied or bad comments have been made , now this is long term members if have been around and can state the change and the effect its had .....

 

The bottom line is many have and are leaving as we are developing a bad culture in places ..

 

When that thread popped up, I'd only been joined for a couple of weeks and was completely confused, because I found the MFC to be the most welcoming and cheerful forum I'd ever been on, and I still think that. (So if this is a step down to usual - woah! lol) But this about people leaving, I have even noticed that, and I suppose that means it has gotten worse, but I still am just completely confused when it happens. I never posted in that other thread, because it was already an argument when I got there.

 

This is true to a point -- I learned a long time ago from another forum

that I can choose to be offended or not by something that is

written. I'm the one in control of how I feel about something, how I

react to something.

 

Seriously, not being sarcastic here --

HAS it been so awful? Because I really have not noticed that at ALL!

 

1. Exactly my philosophy.

2. Thank god I am not insane.

 

Thanks for your post (ha! and you say i write essays!)

First to your last comment about language limitations (simple because its the last thing i read).

I agree, luckily my MM partner was american so aside from comments like 'chip shop chips' she knew exactly what i meant even when using slang.

With tomomi for example (sorry for using you here), she talks in my threads alot, and i often forget to limit my posts in terms of slang, English mannerisms and generally to keep in short and sweet and she often spends 5 or so minutes translating just a few lines to know exactly how to reply. But she has told me about this and now i try to take it into account as much as possible when we talk.

As for the the comment in the london thread, i didnt mean it in that way - i was making a quick reply as i was in the middle of two things (e.g. i am trying to reply as quickly as possible here as i have ignored a PM in a very important conversation for the last 5minutes) and therefore dont always go back and put emotes in the right places to get my tone across.

I think it is okay to discuss opinion, just to be curtious in the way in which we do it, so that we can discuss the points on both sides instead of just saying another person's thoughts have no footing.

 

I didn't envisage it getting so long when I wrote that

 

Language - I couldn't never keep up in a forum in a second language I am 100% fluent in, and this forum moves so fast! I can't believe how everyone does it! I wish that people would say everytime they don't understand something, instead of just trying to get the jist, it should by no means be embarrasing or anything, I just feel so bad to think people are struggling to follow, and it's so simple to fix. Plus we learn to speak more properly, and they learn more fluent english. Same thing I think applies when there is some kind of MFC/Mika info someone has missed out on (although a new "what is chicken?" thread every second day ...).

 

London-thread - Exactly! Stupid internet! I knew you wouldn't be angry at me or anything, but when I read back my sentence later I realised it could be taken like I was being spiteful or something, and then your reply could have been showing that you took it that way, but if I said something else, it would have been off topic, and the thread would turn out like this Ohh what a difference a smilie maakes ... hmm, and a voice ... that was meant to be to the tune of "what a difference a day makes"

 

Yeah, I know what you mean. And I have been thinking about it, and I can see how someone who expresses an honest opinion and then has 400 people tell them their differing opinion could feel like people think they are stupid/are trying to change their opinion, etc. So what to do about it? Everybody that stumbles across a topic they feel about feels the need to add, even when they barely have anythign to add to what has been already said. Maybe ... not just think about how the person is going to take you reaction, but take everyone else's + your reaction? (I'm not just talking to other peole here, I'm talking to myself too)

*is now thinking about the examples of when people have expressed the amount they believe fantasies of being with Mika*

 

This is the way Id like to deal with this :

 

If anyone feels they are being bullied or spoken to badly then either ignore it or use the report post button that is on each thread.That will allow each mod to look and make a decision

 

Please PM the Mods if an issue exists....

 

Personally these types of threads dont tend to solve anything and end up in a tear up

 

Mods I would close and put a system in place then move on

 

I agree.

 

Though about the forum guidelines ... it kind of reminds me of the things we get at the beginings of tutorial-type classes. You get a list of rules "One person speak at a time - No put-downs - No personal attacks on people's views" that kind of thing, and then if you break the rules .. you don't get good marks . Well .. I dunno, I guess no one ever really pays attention to them, it's pretty common sence. But I guess discussion in a thread like this can bring up possible guidelines that aren't as common sence to people.

 

Anyway, once again I have gone way past my required bed-time, good night.

 

EDIT: omg, another 3 pages since I started typing, oh well, I'm goign to bed, your not sucking me in again. *insert :sneaky smilie I have no room for*

[pinkunicorn123]

I find that quite strange. I think it's very brave of you to have done that.

 

No so much brave as a lack of a moral compass

 

I hope no one found that statement rude, that was not the intention.

The idea being that if it was an issue i had, i am big enough and ugly enough (as the saying goes) to deal with it appropriately.

These guys has a reason for coming to me, why would i jeopardise that level of trust by passing on confidential information.

I would have no problems in giving you examples of the concerns drawn....if i could remember them.

I think half of the mfc if not all of those who have contributed to various MM project know how fragile my memory is...i read alot of posts, even if my replies are restricted to certain others, i couldnt narrow it down.

Sorry!

[pinkunicorn123]

Well, we can't do anything about myspace messages or PMs,

as they are not on the open forum...

 

 

 

I wasn't looking for names of people who contacted you, I

was looking for instances that you observed. Obviously you

feel you can't point to anything without giving away the

individuals... which is unfortunate, because then how can I

or the other moderators do anything about it?

 

I'm troubled that these members felt more comfortable going to

you instead of a moderator whose responsibility it is to

moderate the forum... I don't know how to be any more

welcoming or nicer than I am, but I guess I have to work on

my people skills.

dcdeb

 

Must be a youngling thing debs (no offense)....actually, no it isnt, two people i have spoken today thought i had children!

One saying that i must be a mother because i am so understanding and experienced.

*Considers starting an anti-wrinkle cream franchise*

[pinkunicorn123]

 

Anyway, once again I have gone way past my required bed-time, good night.

 

EDIT: omg, another 3 pages since I started typing, oh well, I'm goign to bed, your not sucking me in again. *insert :sneaky smilie I have no room for*

 

I wont reply to everything else so you dont have something to reply to, but PMSL at the above.

Ill do it for you:

[Mika4Life13]

but I read things as NOT sarcastic and then the people are like

 

 

"SARCASM pscch yeah pscch :mf_rosetinted:" And then i get off as being too sensitive

[zoots14]

I'm surprised that a lot people have said that they haven't noticed much negativity on the forum, I see that as a good thing though (hopefully it suggests that it isn't as widespread) but as someone who has been on the recieving end- I can vouch that there is and it isn't plesant...

 

I haven't noticed it much, with the exception of a thread or two. I don't doubt that it's there though.

 

I'm here to talk about Mika, read concert reports, find out new info, and chat with some great people. I tend to have very little interest in a thread once I see some in-fighting or social politics going on (I have enough office politics at work to get my fill). So it doesn't even register with me... I just move on to a different thread. In fact, I'll admit, I feel like I'm sticking my nose in something that's none of my business right now... I have not read this whole thread, only a few posts, and chances are I won't come back to it. I don't even know what prompted this discussion in the first place.

 

However, just like in an office, or school, or any area where many people gather and spend a lot of time together, there are bound to be differences of opinion. In this forum in particular, it's amplified because there are people from all over the world, with different cultures, backrounds, values, senses of humour etc.

 

What one person strongly believes is green, another person may strongly believe is purple... we're all a product of our environment, we have different perspectives, and we will undoubtedly perceive things in different ways.

 

I'm a single woman in my early 30's and have lived on my own in a large city for many years. What I think is funny or appropriate is bound to be quite different from a 12 year old girl, or from a mom of 3 kids in a small mid-western town, or from a 20 year old guy in spain, etc etc.

 

Sometimes things get out of control. As the person I quoted said, it's much different when you're on the receiving end and experiencing such an unpleasant situation. I haven't encountered that here, but I do empathize.

 

Unfortunately I think it's very very difficult to control an environment like this where there are SO many different types of people... people do get emotional sometimes say things they don't mean. They also don't always think about the impact their statements have on others, and may have no idea that they've offended someone. I find myself self-editing quite a bit because I have to remind myself that there are a lot of younger people here... I'd probably be a lot more free with what I say otherwise.

 

Obviously the ideal solution is for everyone to try and be respectful and positive, but that doesn't always happen. And even when you're trying to, you can inadvertently offend someone without meaning to, just because they have a different perspective than you. It's impossible to never offend anyone, unless you just stop posting... and what fun would that be?

 

I know there are a lot of kids and teens on here, and from what I hear (wow, I sound so old saying that!) bullying can be a really big problem online. I'm really hoping that's not happening here, in the forums or in private messages.

 

All I can suggest is that if you are on the receiving end of an offensive or abusive comment, please turn to the moderators... that is what they are there for. Send one of them a PM and explain the situation. They are all very friendly and helpful, and they will help you resolve the situation in a respectful way.

 

And if you see something in a thread that you find offensive, sure... bring it up to the moderators. But also take a step back and think for a moment... did that person really mean to offend, or do they just have a different perspective or sense of humour? I think it's pretty beautiful that Mika has brought us all together... so let's make an effort to allow other people to have their perspectives. We should enjoy our differences, not let them divide us.

 

Edit: I want to quote Suzy because I fully agree... it may be difficult to go directly to the person who has offended you, but it is the best route in most cases. (Although I do think in the case of bullying among younger MFC'ers it might be best to go through a moderator.) But in most cases:

Good advice but...it might also be a better option...

 

if you think its better to PM the specific person who is offending you. That way you not need to invlove anyone, or everyone, who has nothing to do with the concern. It might turn out to be as simple as interpreting their post incorrectly.

 

Let's keep it simple first - then complicate it, if it has to.

 

We're all here to have a little fun, talk about Mika, and enjoy each others company. Where's the Mika love??

 

ps - this is my longest post EVER! I need a nap now.

pss - should we sing Kumbaya now?

psss -- was that offensive?

pssss -- I haven't used "psss" since I was about 15

[pinkunicorn123]

 

ps - this is my longest post EVER! I need a nap now.

pss - should we sing Kumbaya now?

psss -- was that offensive?

pssss -- I haven't used "psss" since I was about 15

 

[happikali]

Nice post Zoots 14

[Mika4Life13]

Well, we can't do anything about myspace messages or PMs,

as they are not on the open forum...

 

 

 

I wasn't looking for names of people who contacted you, I

was looking for instances that you observed. Obviously you

feel you can't point to anything without giving away the

individuals... which is unfortunate, because then how can I

or the other moderators do anything about it?

 

I'm troubled that these members felt more comfortable going to

you instead of a moderator whose responsibility it is to

moderate the forum... I don't know how to be any more

welcoming or nicer than I am, but I guess I have to work on

my people skills.

 

dcdeb

But deb, You and the mods are wonderful !!!

 

 

[pinkunicorn123]

But deb, You and the mods are wonderful !!!

 

 

 

Put the old avi back

I like that one.

[Mika4Life13]

Put the old avi back

I like that one.

what old avvie, dear??

[pinkunicorn123]

what old avvie, dear??

 

Live lounge / heart