camille* Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Honestly I have no idea what it means. If I think about it too long my brain starts to short circuit My idea was that it means the feeling of loneliness is stronger when you are alone or something along the way? I mean, if I remember my English lessons correctly, 'lonely' is a feeling and 'alone' is a concrete state.. So I understood it as an emphasis of loneliness But maybe you mean the grammar is not correct but you understand the meaning of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromthee Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 It would only make sense if the first "lonely" was a noun but it's not. i.e. loneliness is so lonely alone. But even that is horribly awkward as all those references to being alone/lonely are completely redundant. To say that loneliness is lonely is self-evident to the point of being a meaningless statement. Gramatically I would definitely have to agree with you. Especially as English is not my first language. But it fits perfectly well with the emotions in the song and for me represents the new level of loneliness that creeps up on you when you live alone. You can feel lonely because you've recently been dumped / are new / have secrets /whatever. And then you can feel lonely-lonely when on top of all that home is an empty flat. However, that's obviously only my interpretation :-P. But the sentence really resounded with me when I first heard it so I'm happy he wrote it :-). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 I mean, if I remember my English lessons correctly, 'lonely' is a feeling and 'alone' is a concrete state.. So I understood it as an emphasis of loneliness But maybe you mean the grammar is not correct but you understand the meaning of it? Well perhaps I understand it if he is saying loneliness makes him feel alone, but why does that require 3 instances of lonely/lonely/alone? It should only be 2 and even to say that loneliness is a lonely state is already a necessary truth. It's like saying that your black cat is black. Yeah we know the cat is black because it's a black cat. I know your instincts may tell you that reiterating the concept of loneliness 3 times within 5 words is a way of emphasizing the emotion but it just sounds redundant and the way he constructed it is totally incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fromthee Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Well perhaps I understand it if he is saying loneliness makes him feel alone, but why does that require 3 instances of lonely/lonely/alone? It should only be 2 and even to say that loneliness is a lonely state is already a necessary truth. It's like saying that your black cat is black. Yeah we know the cat is black because it's a black cat. I know your instincts may tell you that reiterating the concept of loneliness 3 times within 5 words is a way of emphasizing the emotion but it just sounds redundant and the way he constructed it is totally incorrect. I'd say it's more like saying "Your black cat is black in the darkness." That it sounds redundant to you and is an incorrect construction I can't argue with. Welcome to the world of arts! :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 However, that's obviously only my interpretation :-P. But the sentence really resounded with me when I first heard it so I'm happy he wrote it :-). I'm glad it works for you and many others have said the same. I honestly can't wrap my head around it. I would like to hear him explain what he meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camille* Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Well perhaps I understand it if he is saying loneliness makes him feel alone, but why does that require 3 instances of lonely/lonely/alone? It should only be 2 and even to say that loneliness is a lonely state is already a necessary truth. It's like saying that your black cat is black. Yeah we know the cat is black because it's a black cat. I know your instincts may tell you that reiterating the concept of loneliness 3 times within 5 words is a way of emphasizing the emotion but it just sounds redundant and the way he constructed it is totally incorrect. Oh I think I see where our 2 interpretations differ. You say 'loneliness makes him feel alone', but what I understand is 'loneliness is even stronger when you are alone' (as I learnt in the uni that 'alone' is not a feeling but a state, but maybe that"s just theory). For me he reiterates the notion of loneliness only twice in this sentence (which is a little less worse if I can say this ) It's true that it's redundant but I always took it as a poetic phrase, maybe because English is not my mother tongue.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 That it sounds redundant to you and is an incorrect construction I can't argue with. Welcome to the world of arts! :-) I know there is artistic license when writing poetry/lyrics, but it just fails on all levels to me. It sounds like it was written by someone who doesn't have a grasp of the English language at all. Especially when you compare it to a song like Toy Boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sienna Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 It would only make sense if the first "lonely" was a noun but it's not. i.e. loneliness is so lonely alone. But even that is horribly awkward as all those references to being alone/lonely are completely redundant. To say that loneliness is lonely is self-evident to the point of being a meaningless statement. Aw, I'm afraid you're thinking too much! In poetry you can get away with almost anything and it seldom makes sense in a sensible way! Maybe it's easier for a not native English person to accept and adopt those quirks and the weirdness in his creative and sometimes a little dissolute language? I don't know? Gramatically I would definitely have to agree with you. Especially as English is not my first language. But it fits perfectly well with the emotions in the song and for me represents the new level of loneliness that creeps up on you when you live alone. You can feel lonely because you've recently been dumped / are new / have secrets /whatever. And then you can feel lonely-lonely when on top of all that home is an empty flat. However, that's obviously only my interpretation :-P. But the sentence really resounded with me when I first heard it so I'm happy he wrote it :-). Hej där du svenska Mika-fan, vi är en närmast utrotninghotad art! Kul att träffa dig! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 what I understand is 'loneliness is even stronger when you are alone' (as I learnt in the uni that 'alone' is not a feeling but a state, but maybe that"s just theory). That is correct but it goes without saying that you feel lonely because you are alone, either literally (like there are no other people in the room) or metaphorically (you feel emotionally isolated from the people in your life). What other state could you be in that would cause you to feel lonely, except alone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Aw, I'm afraid you're thinking too much!In poetry you can get away with almost anything and it seldom makes sense in a sensible way! Indeed that's why I said earlier that I cannot think about it. It simply doesn't make sense and to my ears it sounds terrible as a lyric so... Maybe it's easier for a not native English person to accept and adopt those quirks and the weirdness in his creative and sometimes a little dissolute language? I don't know? Absolutely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAK1 Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 I'm sure that writing a song is no easy task, and I would be totally incapable of writing anything, but I honestly don't think that this song is complex enough for it to have been extremely tricky for him . And as Suzie says, he said he did it because it felt right, etc.... As Sting said on the same show, even the simplest song can be hard to write sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guylainem123 Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Indeed that's why I said earlier that I cannot think about it. It simply doesn't make sense and to my ears it sounds terrible as a lyric so... Absolutely. i'm just happy that Mika didn't write the song "blue"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcdeb Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Indeed that's why I said earlier that I cannot think about it. It simply doesn't make sense and to my ears it sounds terrible as a lyric so... Special yes, but lucky ain't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mariposa Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 i'm just happy that Mika didn't write the song "blue"... You're not talking about this song, right? Still having nightmares over the lyrics today - something like 10 years (or even more) after it was relased Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
margaret1989 Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 I really dont think that the song is as complex, yes loneliness but I imagine its his mum or one of his sisters talking to him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Special yes, but lucky ain't! Oh come on you loved that line in NYC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guylainem123 Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 You're not talking about this song, right? Still having nightmares over the lyrics today - something like 10 years (or even more) after it was relased yes that song is horrible! Oh come on you loved that line in NYC well, actually, Deb prefers this line "it's sooo nice to see you again" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathouzouf Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 No one here has said that they are "offended" by Mika singing in French so please don't twist it that way. Mika has always shunned Canada in favour of the US so if I was going to be offended it would be about that I just don't like where this shift in focus is taking Mika because it means it costs me a f*cking fortune to go see him in concert I also feel alienated when he is not doing English interviews - whether it's French, Italian, Spanish, whatever. If I spoke all these languages like a native I would obviously feel very differently about this. This isn't only about a French song because this shift has been happening for a long time. But as I said earlier this song really drives the point home and when Cath said that she didn't understand people's reactions because to her it is natural for Mika to sing in French I wanted to share the other point of view. For many fans who have been following Mika since the beginning, especially in North America and the UK, this is not a direction we expected him to go at all when we first came on board. Okay people give me a break I was at the pub and my Wifi conked out on me so it ended up in a double post and then I was unable to delete it before I got shut down completely. This is exactly what I think. It's easy to say that Mika should favour French markets because they have been more supportive but it's a chicken and egg situation to me. Of course Mika had great success from France right from the beginning but he started losing his English audience along the way as he went from Converse to Louboutins if you know what I mean. Those songs were also popular in Canada but they made English versions for English markets. I have heard the German versions but it was the English versions that were huge hits. I know it sounds terribly ethnocentric but it's just a reality that English speakers who are fans of pop will pretty much only listen to English songs. We are spoiled by the fact that English is so dominant in pop culture and it's very rare that a non-English film or song breaks through. This is not going to change, at least not during Mika's peak career years. If my memory is right, in Quebec, they played the original versions... Maybe I have a different perspective on this, but I do see your point. And I'm patient.. Since I don,t see in the near future any chance for me to go anywhere farther than New York to see him, I'll wait patiently for my turn. I've waited 25 years for »Duran Duran:mf_rosetinted: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathouzouf Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 (you are using my smiley:mf_rosetinted:) i wonder if this song would work here if it was released in Quebec? its very french-like:teehee: but then again, Romanian songs in the past with lyrics no one understood or the Ketchup song that no one understood were summer hits:teehee: so what do i know:blush-anim-cl: I think it would:biggrin2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guylainem123 Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 I think it would:biggrin2: so do i Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathouzouf Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 so do i you don,t know anyone who works at a radio station, do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAK1 Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 If my memory is right, in Quebec, they played the original versions... Maybe I have a different perspective on this, but I do see your point. And I'm patient.. Since I don,t see in the near future any chance for me to go anywhere farther than New York to see him, I'll wait patiently for my turn. I've waited 25 years for »Duran Duran:mf_rosetinted: I know that feeling, 30 years before I got to see Adam Ant play live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathouzouf Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 I know that feeling, 30 years before I got to see Adam Ant play live. my only fear is that if I wait 25 years for Mika, I'll be 65 when I see him:mf_rosetinted: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guylainem123 Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 you don,t know anyone who works at a radio station, do you? i've had some correspondance with a few montreal DJs & a music site, i sent them the shortcut to the song... will follow it up on Monday, as they were busy playing Canadian music yesterday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathouzouf Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 i've had some correspondance with a few montreal DJs & a music site, i sent them the shortcut to the song... will follow it up on Monday, as they were busy playing Canadian music yesterday good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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