Naectegale

Hi Anouk - here are some tools to help you escape! :lightsabre: Good luck! xx N

I've never thought of myself as a "free thinker", but I've always tried to think for myself, and to be as liberal as possible. I've never been one to join groups - religious or political - because I can never accept a set of ideas as a "job lot". What I like about the British Humanist Association is that they take the basic idea and develope it into real action - lobbying the government on a wide range of issues - and for once (so far) they haven't said anything I disagree with. I'm tempted to join!

Hi Greta I worried for a long time that atheism was simply negative, and that if we abandoned religion we would not be able to replace it with anything positive. My boss at work is a Humanist - I read their website http://www.humanism.org.uk/site/cms/ and found that I agreed with a lot of what they said. Their website states "Humanism is the belief that we can live good lives without religious or superstitious beliefs. Humanists make sense of the world using reason, experience and shared human values. We seek to make the best of the one life we have by creating meaning and purpose for ourselves. We take responsibility for our actions and work with others for the common good." and they also say "Humanism encompasses atheism and agnosticism ‑ but is an active and ethical philosophy far greater than these negative responses to religion. " There is a lot more on the site that, to me at least, makes a lot of sense.

I was giving examples, and deliberately avoided giving my opinion on the verdicts. I can see your point re the headscarf - it wouldn't bother me if my hairdresser wore one. But the "beauty" industry can be very shallow and the tribunal seem to have accepted that. I think the compensation for "hurt feelings" is odd - does it indicate some feelings of guilt on behalf of the tribunal? For the record - I disagreed with the other verdict too - why should anyone be able to bring their personal prejudices to work? It was a civil ceremony, not a religious one - she was happy to marry heterosexual couples in a secular environment, although (I assume) her religion would only recognise a church wedding, so what is the difference apart from prejudice?

Hi Anouk We haven't met before - I'm quite new to posting, but have been reading the forum for a while, so followed your story in the Mikagasmics thread. I've always admired your positivity in that thread - you show immense courage in dealing with your illness and manage to keep your sense of humour in spite of everything. I sympathise with what you are going through - medical procedures aren't pleasant, hospital is very dull and the uncertainty of doctors is very distressing Best wishes xxN

I'm sorry you had an unfortunate experience with your professor - I'm glad he was reported to the Dean, and I hope he got into serious trouble. And yes - we have to change our mindset - we can't rely on legislation. In the UK we have had a number of cases where people have been pushing the equality legislation as far as they can. eg A muslim girl who applied to work in a trendy hair salon as a hair stylist, but expected to be allowed to wear a headscarf. She didn't get the job- the salon owner wanted someone with nice hair on show - so she went to a tribunal claiming religious discrimination. She lost (but got compensation for "hurt feelings":boxed:) eg A christian registrar refused to perform civil partnership ceremonies for gay couples, claiming it was against her religion. She claimed religious discrimination and won. Cases like these get publicity and provoke debate, but often it has a negative effect - the individuals are accused of being awkward or publicity seeking or being politically motivated i.e. "looking for trouble". Often the criticism extends to the equality legislation itself - the very good reasons for having the legislation in the first place, to remedy real discrimination of the worst kind, gets lost. A little more tolerance on all sides is needed so that we don't need to resort to the law, but I can't see it happening at the moment. xx N

Artsy - this is indeed a huge problem - people with "beliefs" really do feel compelled to convert others "for their own good" - which those on the receiving end view as an outragous imposition (I'm talking generally - I'm not suggesting you are guilty of this - I appreciate the care with which you have expressed yourself in this thread ). This is the case whether the receiver is atheist or of a different religion. If religion was simply "whatever silly practice I choose" and didn't affect anyone else, then it wouldn't matter so much. In real life, it matters - I as an atheist in the UK, am restricted by archaic "christian-based" laws relating to Christmas, Easter and Sunday trading, as are all Muslims and Jews, who have to regulate their own "holy" days without state assistance. We have a lot of "equality" legislation in the UK, covering age, race, religion and sexual orientation. It is necessary to have this legislation - discrimination on these matters is not acceptable in a civilised society. But there are still clashes - e.g. when the government decided to give gay couples equal rights in adoption with straight couples, the Catholic adoption agencies asked to be exempted, and had a lot of support from Catholic MPs. I, as an atheist, thought the Catholics were wrong to want an exemption, because I believe they are wrong about homosexuality. But if I was a Catholic, I would belive the law was wrong and I would be running counter to my religion in complying with it. I can't see a compromise here which would satisfy all parties. I think religion originally held societies together, when communities were geographically segregated and everyone in each area believed the same thing. But we are now in a world where societies are very mixed, so we have to find a way to get along with each other which minimises the differences and emphasises the things which unite us. The problem with "fundamentalists" of all religious persuasions is that they emphasise the differences.

Hi Artsy Thank you for your post. What would I do if I saw proof? If it was scientifically verifiable, then I would believe it. If that meant I had to "do religion" in a particular way, then I would probably do it. But This is hypothetical. In real life, no such proof exists (to my satisfaction, at least) I've always taken the view that the many different forms of religious observation are, by definition, proof that none of them have got it right. I am a sceptic by nature - I don't have an absolute faith in Science either - Scientists are often wrong, but when they get it right, good things happen - you only have to look at the medical advances of the 20th century for evidence that scientfic enquiry can work. xx N

Thanks again everyone !!! And thanks, Babspanky, for putting the Music Club concert in your archive thread! I found it the other day - it brought back some good memories! How did you record from the interactive service? I tried on my Telewest cable "TV Drive" box, but it didn't seem to work. xx N

I've just got back from my little adventure - and I needn't have worried, the rain eased off and there were no floods or traffic jams, I arrived at the course on time and I haven't been burgled while I was out. (Honestly, I am pathetic sometimes) Actually, the course was really good - and a much better idea than points and a fine. The trainer was very professional, and the other folks on the course were very friendly and joined in the sessions, so it all went very quickly. It was a talk on safe driving, with particular emphasis on speeding in 30mph areas (The course is only offered to 1st offenders who were less than 10mph over the limit) There was a lot of interaction with us - question & answer exercises and a lot of time for discussion. The course covered revision of the Highway code (national speed limits, speed signs etc.) and there were a lot of statistics about injuries and fatalities in accidents at different speeds. There were also some real-life case studies where going a few miles over the limit have resulted in deaths - fortunately these weren't too gory. The basic message was that even minor speeding can, by increasing stopping times, increase the risk of accidents and the likelihood of causing serious injury or death. It lasted 4 hours and the tea was free:thumb_yello: xx N PS I also learned that you are not allowed to drive over the top of mini roundabouts, even if there is no-one else around! If they catch you on camera you can get 3 points on your licence:shocked:

Hi Babspanky Thanks for responding I got done on camera on the A30 just outside Bagshot! (I live in Surrey). I'm not complaining about being done for speeding - I just wish the day was going better! (did I mention the 4 hours sleep and the 7 gnat bites on my legs?) I'm off now (rain has stopped so I'll go early and slowly) xx N

Woke up to a thunderstorm & torrential rain! It wouldn't matter, but I have to drive for over an hour to get to a "safer driving course" to avoid 3 points on my licence. I'm only a fair weather driver and I'm scared of driving in the rain but I can't get out of it!!! And then.... A policeman knocked at my door and said my neighbour's shed had been broken into and to be careful with security 'cuz there's been a spate of burglaries in the area. So I cried at the policeman -how embarrassing:blush-anim-cl: I don't mind being punished - I did do 35mph in a 30mph area (didn't see the change of speed sign) - but this is all too much:thumbdown: Just thought I'd share - I don't expect any replies (or any sympathy for being such a wuss!) xx N PS It doesn't seem so bad now I see it written down

I'm quite shocked to hear that other countries in Europe have tax systems which take religion into account - I don't like the idea, even if the total tax burden on the individual is the same in the end. In the UK, the only time the government asks about religion is in the 10-yearly census, which is purely for statistical information. (A lot of people now claim to be "Jedi":naughty:) We do have interference from the Church of England, whose leaders have a right to sit in the House of Lords, and of course the Queen is both Head of State and head of the church. We've got some antiquated Sunday trading laws - shorter hours for large stores - and the most important restriction for me - no garden centres open on Easter Sunday:blink: I like gardening, and the 4-day Easter break is the ideal time of year for sowing & planting - Its the one religious imposition I really resent!

I'm an atheist. I stopped believing in god when I stopped believing in Father Christmas - I figured if they lied about one, then the other probably wasn't true either! I don't think anyone can ever know all the answers to life, the universe etc. but I'd rather trust views based on evidence and experimentation and logical thought than some unchangeable religious teaching. XX N

Hi Elanorelle Sounds like you had a fantastic time at your concert:thumb_yello: I sing in a chamber choir which sings both sacred and secular classical music from all centuries, but particulary the 20th and 21st. Most of our concerts are entirely unaccompanied. The choir usually has about 25 singers. My favourite piece is Britten's Hymn to St Cecilia - I'm a big fan of Britten's music, and I love this particularly because I get to sing the solo ! I also like all the Renaissance church music - e.g. Victoria, Lassus, Tallis etc I don't think I would like to sing an arrangement of a Mika song - I just think Mika does them better! I find most arrangements of "pop" songs for choir a bit dull, to be honest.

Hi Ankmet20 You have my sympathy - it is difficult enough going to college whout the extra pressure of having to cope with a broken ankle.The problem at the moment is you have too much time to think and worry, and that can be very stressful. I'm sure you will cope, and you will find that people are very kind and helpful when they see what you are trying to deal with. I broke my arm in May - not a big deal, except I was on holiday on my own at the time and 150 miles from the nearest friend/relative. I had lots of help from first aiders in a local shop, taxi drivers (to and from the hospital) and the breakdown truck man who had to ferry me and my car back home. Try to stay calm and positive - remember you will get better in time. XX N

I love chocolate - especally Green & Black's organic Maya Gold and Montezuma organic Chilli chocolate. They are more expensive than ordinary chocolate, but I don't eat as much - They are a real treat! xxN

I have to agree about not wanting a routine to the blogs - accountants do things daily/weekly/monthly/yearly and it's very dull (I'm an accountant so I know!) I dont think Mika can ever please all his fans - we all want different things. So the best thing he can do is please himself. It's early days for this blogging, so he may be experimenting and he will probably improve with experience. I like the variety - it doesn't take as long to keep up with the blogs as it does to keep up with MFC. So far I've enjoyed the vlogs, the kinetic art and the Wonderpets (a happy hour was spent on YouTube checking them out - they made me laugh) I definitely want a tea blog, I love all kinds of tea!

new blog:thumb_yello:

Hi CazGirl I'm sorry to hear you're not well. I do hope you see a doctor soon, if only to put your mind at rest. When I was ill last year, I made matters much worse by trying to avoid the doctor, and then googling all my symptoms and possible diagnoses before I saw the specialist. Everything I found just raised more questions than answers, and I had no sense of proportion! I think the worrying did me more harm than the actual illness (which turned out ok in the end). So I speak from experience - it's much better to deal with something you know, than worry about all the things which might be wrong. I hope you will forgive advice from a newbie. Best Wishes XX N PS I spent a rainy morning reading your funny stories a few weeks ago - they cheered me up - thanks:thumb_yello:

hello Christine - did you enjoy it? I must admit I didn't really want to go, but I'm glad I did.

1983! The year I left university and moved down to London to start a "proper" job. I had £200 to start me off in my new life. I shared a very small flat with a friend of a friend who I hadn't met before (who hated me for 6 months before deciding I might not be the antichrist after all - we ended up good friends and are still in touch). My share of the rent was £20 per week. And for my first weekend in London, I was taken to the Notting Hill Carnival

Hello Silver You're spot on - I hadn't thought of Satie but now you mention it, there is a very strong similarity.

I love John Tavener's music - I went to a concert once where he gave the audience a long lecture on how we should all be more spiritual in our daily lives (it was a bit dull after a fab concert - I hope Mika never tries it)- he looked like an Old Testament Prophet with long white hair! I've sung quite a few choral works by him. I also like Arvo Part whose music has a similar spiritual feel. I certainly think Mika is talented and will have a long career, but I think it could go in almost any direction - I can see him writing an opera/musical type thing, but I don't think it will resemble anything on the market today!

Happy Birthday Mika!! Enjoy the cliff jumping!