im_stuck_in_the_middle Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 don't tell anyone... but I ate jelly AND lentil bolognese AND smoked ham AND oreos AND coke AND coconut cake AND some more today... Just pretendin' Oh yeah Tomomi... forgot that...MUST-NOT-EAT-FOOD!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakie Doke Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Add me! Add me! Add me! what did she say? i'm curious. http://www.mikafanclub.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1288192#post1288192 the quote that norwalk posted.... for real, that made me laugh. but, there are some youngsters here, and that probably wouldn't be best for them to read. but they could have just deleted the post, or warn her. banned for life is a bit much. watch out, you might get banned too! It's actually killing me not knowing what it said Once I get my Easter basket I am out of there. Add me first! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwalk174 Posted March 23, 2008 Author Share Posted March 23, 2008 I added you. Good night! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lollipopgirl83 Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Please add me. I don't want to get too involved in the drama...but from what I've seen, I think a life ban is a bit too drastic. I don't know Pink very well, but I want to lend my support to a fellow MFCer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakie Doke Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 I added you. Good night! Thanks! Please add me.I don't want to get too involved in the drama...but from what I've seen, I think a life ban is a bit too drastic. I don't know Pink very well, but I want to lend my support to a fellow MFCer. I think a life ban should need to be really thuroughly considered and discussed, and the exact reasoning should at least be made clear openly. It's basically impossible for Pink to even keep up on Mika-news, something complete random guests can even do, let alone contribute to the MFC as fantastically as she did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakie Doke Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 I agree with Mika. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Sky Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 I was reading (and participating in) the particular thread at the time when Pink made the controversial comment. I thought that particular comment and what followed about Mika's security was not one of her most well-considered posts, but it seemed to be dealt with by the people discussing on the thread at the time. Not all of us think things through before we post, and sometimes our opinions clash VERY STRONGLY with others. And some people seem to do it more often than others. I don't know why that should justify a life-time ban. In fact I cannot think of anything at all (except a criminal offence) that would justify a life time ban. Plenty of people have said things before (and since) in other threads, that have been angry, argumentative, negative, confrontational etc, and they don't get banned at all. Plenty of people have come across other posters whose opinions upset them or who they just don't like. We are brown, blue, violet, purple, hurtful, green, mean....you know how it goes. We should all be able to express discontent and disagreement respectfully, as adults. I understand not all of us are adults, but surely we adults can model the respectful forum behaviour we expect to see from the younger members. But do the mods need to police the forum as strictly as imposing life time bans? I work for a very large volunteer organisation. To terminate the relationship with any of the volunteers, admittedly an exceptional and serious step, there is a clear grievance procedure. Letters must be written, warnings given, and an opportunity for a hearing before an INDEPENDENT grievance committee. But it is all set out for anyone to see, right from the start, and the offending person is advised that they can take any complaints to the grievance commission and have their comments considered. There is currently no mutually agreed set of rules and procedures in place that the members of the forum can refer to at times like this, which is a real drawback. How can any of us know if a lifetime ban is justified, and whether the very next one might be coming in our direction. I don't think a random life-time ban should be imposed on Pink or anyone else in such a harsh and unsupported way. Decisions such as these should be well considered, time should be taken, each step monitored, perhaps by a specifically formed committee (not mods) and all parties should practice transparency and accountability to the rest of the fan club. In particular, the person who has been publicly accused and banned should be given enough information to know why this has happened, and should also be given the choice as to whether this information is aired publicly. The moderators cannot sit as judge and jury and give the accused no rights at all. Moderators are here to moderate, and perhaps MEDIATE, but not dictate and dominate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heineken22 Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 so, I really don't understand this... I read what Pink posted, and I think that people reacted waaaaay too strongly about it. I mean, a life long ban? come on! the only thing that would justify that was if someone had posted something offensive to everyone---ie, lewd pictures, racial slurs, etc. Pink, like all of us, has a very sarcastic humor. I probably have said some things like that before, because sarcasm is basically a second language to me. anyways, that's just my P.O.V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilmot Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 We are brown, blue, violet, purple, hurtful, green, mean....you know how it goes. And some of us used to be Pink. But not anymore....the colour, Pink, was wiped from the slate..... And I agree with everything you said, Blue Sky. Thanks for saying it so well. Also, a big thanks to Norwalk174, who is doing an excellent job of asking questions and bringing us together. Please put me on the list of "wants to understand why" and all the other lists too. Pink has done a lot for the MFC and for many members. I agree she has done much more good than harm. I always felt safe while posting in her threads and she always gathered the funnest, nicest people around her. (never a dull moment, when Pink was around). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nico_collard Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Yet again, I am completely outta the loop. Welcome to my world... I don't think she deserves a life ban. If a ban IS in order for herpost then it should be temporary. There is nothing that says 3 strikes and you are out, so its unfair to ban someone for life when that rule does not exist - and when the facts are not made clear to that person! True... there's nothing that says it's three strikes and you're out... but there is that rule... Thats the point - she does not know apart from being abusive - and thepost concerned does not seem abusive - and a security risk. Thats what the thread is about - why!!!! I was thinking the same... typical Pink as far as I know... http://www.mikafanclub.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1288192#post1288192 That's it? I was reading (and participating in) the particular thread at the time when Pink made the controversial comment. I thought that particular comment and what followed about Mika's security was not one of her most well-considered posts, but it seemed to be dealt with by the people discussing on the thread at the time. Not all of us think things through before we post, and sometimes our opinions clash VERY STRONGLY with others. And some people seem to do it more often than others. I don't know why that should justify a life-time ban. In fact I cannot think of anything at all (except a criminal offence) that would justify a life time ban. Plenty of people have said things before (and since) in other threads, that have been angry, argumentative, negative, confrontational etc, and they don't get banned at all. Plenty of people have come across other posters whose opinions upset them or who they just don't like. We are brown, blue, violet, purple, hurtful, green, mean....you know how it goes. We should all be able to express discontent and disagreement respectfully, as adults. I understand not all of us are adults, but surely we adults can model the respectful forum behaviour we expect to see from the younger members. But do the mods need to police the forum as strictly as imposing life time bans? I work for a very large volunteer organisation. To terminate the relationship with any of the volunteers, admittedly an exceptional and serious step, there is a clear grievance procedure. Letters must be written, warnings given, and an opportunity for a hearing before an INDEPENDENT grievance committee. But it is all set out for anyone to see, right from the start, and the offending person is advised that they can take any complaints to the grievance commission and have their comments considered. There is currently no mutually agreed set of rules and procedures in place that the members of the forum can refer to at times like this, which is a real drawback. How can any of us know if a lifetime ban is justified, and whether the very next one might be coming in our direction. I don't think a random life-time ban should be imposed on Pink or anyone else in such a harsh and unsupported way. Decisions such as these should be well considered, time should be taken, each step monitored, perhaps by a specifically formed committee (not mods) and all parties should practice transparency and accountability to the rest of the fan club. In particular, the person who has been publicly accused and banned should be given enough information to know why this has happened, and should also be given the choice as to whether this information is aired publicly. The moderators cannot sit as judge and jury and give the accused no rights at all. Moderators are here to moderate, and perhaps MEDIATE, but not dictate and dominate. Thought I'd add some insight... Life time bans are if someone is seriously abusing/harassing/insulting other members, spamming the thread (like when someone comes on trying to sell phones) or posting porn... but the spam and the porn ones are straight away bans... the other offences people get 3 strikes... I'm not sure what Pink could have said that would warrant a life time ban, but I know she has been banned before, and they must have decided to go with a 3 strikes and you're out thing... I guess it was beacuse she said something highly abusive or insulting on the forum... or it might have been said in PMs... who knows... I'm sure the mods would be okay with explaining what justified the ban (without going into too much detail).... I must admit... if Pink doesn't know what justified it, that's a worry... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lollipop_monkey Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 There is currently no mutually agreed set of rules and procedures in place that the members of the forum can refer to at times like this, which is a real drawback. How can any of us know if a lifetime ban is justified, and whether the very next one might be coming in our direction, Let me clarify that the mods/admins have been working on detailed rules and guidelines for quite some time now. There's a lot of ground to cover, and we want to make sure things are as fair as can be, and as clear as they can be, before formally implementing these rules and procedures. Clearly, this is something that needs to happen sooner rather than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Sky Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 But does she have any right of appeal? A life sentence is harsh without any avenue for reducing the sentence. Time off for good behaviour, contributions, community service....whatever.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lollipop_monkey Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 But does she have any right of appeal? A life sentence is harsh without any avenue for reducing the sentence. Time off for good behaviour, contributions, community service....whatever.... Keep in mind that no one has been sent to prison with no possibility of parole. I don't think a jail analogy is quite accurate. A decision to issue a permanent ban is similar someone getting banned from the local video arcade for life, because their behaviour in some away negatively affected the arcade or the people who frequent it. I'm not, however, going to comment on Pink's particular situation - feel free to direct any questions/concerns about this particular situation to Freddiesdouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babspanky Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 I must admit... if Pink doesn't know what justified it, that's a worry... It is especially as there are members on here who have been banned and reinstated, who still don't know why they were banned. It's not the first time. I've had my ups and downs with Pink and to be fair, she can be rude, but if you don't know what you have done wrong, how can you modify your behaviour and how can any of us learn from it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakie Doke Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 I was reading (and participating in) the particular thread at the time when Pink made the controversial comment. I thought that particular comment and what followed about Mika's security was not one of her most well-considered posts, but it seemed to be dealt with by the people discussing on the thread at the time. Not all of us think things through before we post, and sometimes our opinions clash VERY STRONGLY with others. And some people seem to do it more often than others. I'm stuck somewhere wondering why her post was taken so seriously. "What followed" was fun and banter - the location of moors, whether or not tomomi was guilty (which she obviously wasn't) and if the page could be kept open to 660th post (which it obviously wouldn't). I think what was said to provoke Pink's response was pretty to me looked as though she was saying that looking up people's country of origin on their public myspace = creepy stalker that is a danger to Mika's security... But regardless, it didn't turn into an viscious argument, it was just one post in which she expressed her views, which wasn't illegal last time I checked. I don't know why that should justify a life-time ban. In fact I cannot think of anything at all (except a criminal offence) that would justify a life time ban. Plenty of people have said things before (and since) in other threads, that have been angry, argumentative, negative, confrontational etc, and they don't get banned at all. Plenty of people have come across other posters whose opinions upset them or who they just don't like. We are brown, blue, violet, purple, hurtful, green, mean....you know how it goes. We should all be able to express discontent and disagreement respectfully, as adults. I understand not all of us are adults, but surely we adults can model the respectful forum behaviour we expect to see from the younger members. But do the mods need to police the forum as strictly as imposing life time bans? I work for a very large volunteer organisation. To terminate the relationship with any of the volunteers, admittedly an exceptional and serious step, there is a clear grievance procedure. Letters must be written, warnings given, and an opportunity for a hearing before an INDEPENDENT grievance committee. But it is all set out for anyone to see, right from the start, and the offending person is advised that they can take any complaints to the grievance commission and have their comments considered. There is currently no mutually agreed set of rules and procedures in place that the members of the forum can refer to at times like this, which is a real drawback. How can any of us know if a lifetime ban is justified, and whether the very next one might be coming in our direction. I don't think a random life-time ban should be imposed on Pink or anyone else in such a harsh and unsupported way. Decisions such as these should be well considered, time should be taken, each step monitored, perhaps by a specifically formed committee (not mods) and all parties should practice transparency and accountability to the rest of the fan club. In particular, the person who has been publicly accused and banned should be given enough information to know why this has happened, and should also be given the choice as to whether this information is aired publicly. The moderators cannot sit as judge and jury and give the accused no rights at all. Moderators are here to moderate, and perhaps MEDIATE, but not dictate and dominate. Exactly, exactly, exactly, exactly. There needs to be a proper system that everybody is satisfied with. Pink, like all of us, has a very sarcastic humor.I probably have said some things like that before, because sarcasm is basically a second language to me. Exactly. For some reason some people take her very seriously And some of us used to be Pink. But not anymore....the colour, Pink, was wiped from the slate..... Your metaphors are pure genius! Also, a big thanks to Norwalk174, who is doing an excellent job of asking questions and bringing us together. Indeed Pink has done a lot for the MFC and for many members. I agree she has done much more good than harm. I always felt safe while posting in her threads and she always gathered the funnest, nicest people around her. (never a dull moment, when Pink was around). Some people seem to forget this, and just judge her by the days she was in a bad mood She is a lovely person! And an asset to the MFC! That's it? I'm not sure what Pink could have said that would warrant a life time ban, but I know she has been banned before, and they must have decided to go with a 3 strikes and you're out thing... I guess it was beacuse she said something highly abusive or insulting on the forum... or it might have been said in PMs... who knows... I must admit... if Pink doesn't know what justified it, that's a worry... (sorry, I rearranged your post to collate topics ) Yes, that's it. She said nothing in PMs or anything of the sort. But she doesn't even know that that's actually it, because she wasn't ever told. There was much confusion for quite some time before it was settled that it must be because of this post, just because a mod replied negatively to it just before she was banned. I don't know if we should post what she was told. Err .. but it already has been somewhere if you look True... there's nothing that says it's three strikes and you're out... but there is that rule... Life time bans are if someone is seriously abusing/harassing/insulting other members, spamming the thread (like when someone comes on trying to sell phones) or posting porn... but the spam and the porn ones are straight away bans... the other offences people get 3 strikes... It's never been made clear to anyone, and there are no guidelines as to the banning procedure. I think that's the point. If the mods have decided on a 3 strikes and your out system ... we don't know about it. We have a right to. I'm sure the mods would be okay with explaining what justified the ban (without going into too much detail).... I think that's the first thing this thread is asking/hoping for. Firstly, for Pink to at least get a proper explaination as to why she was given this sentence. Secondly, that some system for banning, or permanent banning be mutually agreed upon by forum members and mods, and is made to be open knowledge - something that I think is pretty important, especially for being official. And thirdly, that Pink's sentence and situation be reconcidered. Or that's how I see it. Obviously we all want the third part, but the others need to be addresed to get there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakie Doke Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 *curses her slow posting/getting distracted mid-post* Let me clarify that the mods/admins have been working on detailed rules and guidelines for quite some time now. There's a lot of ground to cover, and we want to make sure things are as fair as can be, and as clear as they can be, before formally implementing these rules and procedures. Clearly, this is something that needs to happen sooner rather than later. That's good to know, and yes I think so. And I'd hope they become openly known guidelines? It is especially as there are members on here who have been banned and reinstated, who still don't know why they were banned. It's not the first time. I've had my ups and downs with Pink and to be fair, she can be rude, but if you don't know what you have done wrong, how can you modify your behaviour and how can any of us learn from it? Yeah, the reasoning behind banning/reinstating should be made clear to the banee (yes, I've just made that word up:wink2:). This just seems like an obvious thing to me, but if people have been banned and reinstated without knowing at all ... then it mustn't be happening properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petra Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Megan, thank you. I was thinking about something like that myself but I wouldnt have had the courage (and the proper English to say what exactly I wanted). Put me on the list!!! *wanders off to put this thread in her signature* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scut Monkey Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 I must admit... if Pink doesn't know what justified it, that's a worry... It is especially as there are members on here who have been banned and reinstated, who still don't know why they were banned. It's not the first time. I've had my ups and downs with Pink and to be fair, she can be rude, but if you don't know what you have done wrong, how can you modify your behaviour and how can any of us learn from it? That's a very good point. Lack of explanation and transparency is becoming a chronic problem here in the MFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nico_collard Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 It is especially as there are members on here who have been banned and reinstated, who still don't know why they were banned. It's not the first time. I've had my ups and downs with Pink and to be fair, she can be rude, but if you don't know what you have done wrong, how can you modify your behaviour and how can any of us learn from it? Hmmmm... it's not good... they should at least know exactly why they're banned and what they said that causd the ban... (sorry, I rearranged your post to collate topics )Yes, that's it. She said nothing in PMs or anything of the sort. But she doesn't even know that that's actually it, because she wasn't ever told. There was much confusion for quite some time before it was settled that it must be because of this post, just because a mod replied negatively to it just before she was banned. I don't know if we should post what she was told. Err .. but it already has been somewhere if you look (Tis okay... you'd do it without apologising anyway! ) That's weird... there had to be something that would justify banning... I wouldn't even consider that a warningable offence (yep, made up a word too! ) And it's doubly strange that she wasn't told why... It's never been made clear to anyone, and there are no guidelines as to the banning procedure. I think that's the point. If the mods have decided on a 3 strikes and your out system ... we don't know about it. We have a right to. I know that... but of course when the mods make their guidlines up they'll mention that... Though I thought there was some mention of the 3 strikes and you're out rule in the FAQ... Or maybe I'm imaginin things as per usual... I think that's the first thing this thread is asking/hoping for.Firstly, for Pink to at least get a proper explaination as to why she was given this sentence. Secondly, that some system for banning, or permanent banning be mutually agreed upon by forum members and mods, and is made to be open knowledge - something that I think is pretty important, especially for being official. And thirdly, that Pink's sentence and situation be reconcidered. Or that's how I see it. Obviously we all want the third part, but the others need to be addresed to get there... Ummm.... yeah I got that... I isn't completely stoopid you know! In my own demented way I was agreeing... I guess it could be seen as a gentle shove for the mods to explain the situation... or Freddie in particular seeing as he apparently banned her and probably knows the situation better than the others... That's a very good point. Lack of explanation and transparency is becoming a chronic problem here in the MFC. Hopefully with guidelines that will no longer be a problem... Oh, and where it said Blue Sky as the quote, it was actually me... I'm pretty sure... unless both BS and I said exactly the same thing... Not that it matters... I'm being anal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzy Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 "Lifelong" or "permanent" ban is harsh. I hope Freddie will be able to offer an explanation soon. I am thinking perhaps, that the better term is "indefinite - until further evaluation". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Sky Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Anyone for an impartial grievance committee to review the situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scut Monkey Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Anyone for an impartial grievance committee to review the situation? If Pink wants to appeal the decision then there should be an avenue for it. Preferably independent of the mod team to make it fair and have both sides heard. But before you even think of appealing something you need a full explanation of why it happened in the first place... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLAURENx Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Yeah i want her back. I miss the pointless image convo's i had with her:tears: Plus she was a dedicated member of the forum and even Donated. She just had a sarcastic sense of humor, thats all. A permanent ban is just ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mika- I love you Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Awwww, I miss Pinkunicorn123 so much! I want an answer on why she was banned (add me to the list ). What thread is the "660", could you give me the link plz? DON'T WORRY PINKUNICORN123 WE WILL GET YOU UNBANNED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greta Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Add me to the list aswell, I believe in Invisible Pink Unicorn ;oP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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