Mousetrap Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Ok, so being ill made me focused on how to save the vid from rai... Here's the direct link to the video: http://creativemedia3.rai.it/podcastcdn/raiuno/Francesco_Lu_Santo_Jullare/2709839.mp4 Once you open the link, if you go on "File", "Save page as..." you should be able to save the video as .mp4 I'm sure that Eriko or someone of our girls will provide you soon a sendspace or mediafire link but for the meantime, fro those who want to save the video, it's at your disposal with this little trick:teehee: Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elwendin Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Ok, so being ill made me focused on how to save the vid from rai... :mf_rosetinted: :mf_rosetinted: This never happened. But You awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucrezia Posted June 23, 2014 Author Share Posted June 23, 2014 Thank you :mf_rosetinted: :mf_rosetinted: This never happened. But You awesome. You're welcome girls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alireine Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Talking about the Catholic Church, homosexuality and Pope Francis. Without being asked at all. Moving.I don't know why people outside Italy (where the Vatican stomps into our politics) can be touched by what the Pope says. But I can understand the point of view of a cathegory of people for whom every possible racism or discriminating policy is a real pain. Well, if you are a catholic and have faith, there are chances that you are touched by the Pope's speeches even if you are living outside Italy. Ok, so being ill made me focused on how to save the vid from rai... Here's the direct link to the video: http://creativemedia3.rai.it/podcastcdn/raiuno/Francesco_Lu_Santo_Jullare/2709839.mp4 Once you open the link, if you go on "File", "Save page as..." you should be able to save the video as .mp4 I'm sure that Eriko or someone of our girls will provide you soon a sendspace or mediafire link but for the meantime, fro those who want to save the video, it's at your disposal with this little trick:teehee: Thanks Lucrezia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertina Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Well, if you are a catholic and have faith, there are chances that you are touched by the Pope's speeches even if you are living outside Italy. Thanks Lucrezia yes, but talking about homosexuality, if they should listen to the catholic church, they would all burn in hell. This causes pain to many people, gay or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elwendin Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Pupils of MFC languages school - italian section - End of year exam - first trial - is ready HERE English students please be patient. Translation is coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elwendin Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) I just watched the first ten minutes of the vid and I need to share my temporary thoughts about it I never give a fudge about religious stuff (it seems a kind of sermon) so I'm not that into the topic, but of course I enjoy Mika's anecdotes and perspective. The man seems willing to tell more but he's grounded both by the language and Dario Fo who keeps interrupting him And sometimes he looks like me, attending a meeting with my boss: he has no clue of what Fo is saying but he pretends to be soooo interested "mh" "si" Edited June 23, 2014 by Elwendin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salomevera Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I just want to thank all the italian members that transcripte and translate, that is so so kind of you I could not wait the translation so i used reverso for the first ten minutes and the result is kind of strange haha but i get most of it I really enjoy this conversation between Mika and Dario Fo, their perspective is really interesting and I always like to hear Mika talk about his mother i don't know why I think it's cute no matter what he says about them fighting and stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elwendin Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) Ok, I had prejudices about Dario Fo, I never saw a show of him but I decided it wasn't my scene (parents' influence) Aaaaand I was right. I got bored, I got distracted many times, I got annoyed when he interrupted Mika as Mika was more interesting than him. Fo sometimes didn't make sense according to my pragmatic self and grammelot make me feel akward. I'm sorry When it comes to Mika, I'd like him to be able to go deeper but, as I said before, both language and Fo prevented him. I don't think he completely got Fo's point of view neither, he seemed lost now and again and struggling to find something to say in his replies, but I'm totally sure it's just because of the language. I'm glad that he did it, though, for I suppose it was in his bucket list. I have mine as well, and they don't have to correspond in every entry. I suppose he wouldn't like spend a whole winter day working with dogs in the mud like I do, so I'm fine with him enjoying Dario Fo. Edited June 24, 2014 by Elwendin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie20 Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Talking about the Catholic Church, homosexuality and Pope Francis. Without being asked at all. Moving.I don't know why people outside Italy (where the Vatican stomps into our politics) can be touched by what the Pope says. But I can understand the point of view of a cathegory of people for whom every possible racism or discriminating policy is a real pain. Yes, I totally agree with you! The interference and the enormous influence of the Church in all aspects of Italian life (and not only Italian) is really too much.And this is just the tip of the iceberg.Perhaps those who live outside of Italy can't see it.Even talk about homosexuality and gay rights in a serious way in Italy is very difficult.We are not in France or Spain, where, even among homophobic and right-wing movements or homophobic remarks and behavior, they can talk widely of gay rights, especially in the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agoldengirl Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Pupils of MFC languages school - italian section - End of year exam - first trial - is ready HERE English students please be patient. Translation is coming. Thank you soooooo much you're the most organized translatore team! And the best too! Without you I had stay in front of this dialogue and never andurstand!! Thanks MCF♥ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elwendin Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 The interference and the enormous influence of the Church in all aspects of Italian life.Even talk about homosexuality and gay rights in a serious way in Italy is very difficult.We are not in France or Spain. Yes. Since some months ago Italy was so strict on moral issues that Europe needed to force our parliament to change the law about in vitro fertilization. Italy was unconstitutional because of these strict and silly laws. People were (and actually still are) forced to go abroad, mostly in Belgium, Spain, Ucraine and Russia, to look for a little bit of hope. Gay and in vitro fertilization are quite good examples of church's influence on italians' life. But hey. Cheer up! At least we are the most organized translatore team! And the best too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emelyne412 Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Thanks for the translation ! I was a bit of evil to understand this interview even if I was native from Italy It's a great job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertina Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 thank you my fellow Italians, the job you are doing is amazing and very long. I wish I had the transcriptions of all English interviews Hooray for the Italian team! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elwendin Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) Italian transcription part 1 Chapter one, thanks to Anninasala Dialogo MIKA e FO Auditorium RAI di Napoli (motore.. azione!) Fo: “be' io stavo chiedendo, dove è tua madre in questo momento?” Mika: “non lo so se lei è qui... ah è qui.” Fo: “per me è stata fondamentale mia madre.. chiedo a te che funzione, non soltanto di affetti, ma nel tuo lavoro, che cosa fa?” Mika: “praticamente?” Fo: “si!” Mika: “abbiamo lavorato insieme sin dall'inizio, prima il suo lavoro cambiava sempre, abbiamo lavorato allora quando mi hanno buttato fuori da scuola, lavorando con mia madre ho imparato come interpretare le cose, anche per cantare, per tutto.. Fo: “la scuola dalla quale ti hanno cacciato era una scuola d'arte, con musica?” Mika. “no, no nono , era una scuola francese a Londra.. era molto difficile. Adesso con mia madre lavoriamo con tutti i vestiti, anche con questo vestito fragola.” Fo. “l'ha disegnato o pensato lei?” Mika. “No, lei fa un po' lo styling, non lo so, ho sempre lavorato con mia madre ma quando le persone vedono mia madre e me insieme non pensano che questa donna è mia madre. Abbiamo una relazione un po' strana... cioè ho tanto spazio, ho la mia vita, posso dire quello che voglio dire, lei anche ma siamo insieme ma separati. Penso che questa sia una relazione che mi aiuta tanto anche nella mia vita privata, io voglio sempre avere una mia (con le mani fa il segno di una divisione)” Fo: “ti faccio una domanda per me è importante perché l'ho avuta con mia madre.. quando tu fai qualche cosa che ritieni importante o hai dei dubbi e ti rivolgi a tua madre per vedere cosa ne pensa, se tua madre è negativa rispetto a quello che stai facendo, vai in crisi o accetti?” Mika: (ride) “siamo sempre in guerra.. sempre in una posizione di guerra. Perchè non lo so ma lei infatti è molto più punk che io, è molto più aperta io sono più come si dice...” Fo: “rigido?” Mika: “yeah, si, io sono rigido, lei è un po' più libanese io un po' più tedesco (ride)” Fo: “ sai perché te l'ho chiesto? Mia madre ad esempio voleva che io non mi fermassi a una cultura semplice e tradizionale, voleva ad esempio che apprendessi il latino perchè diceva che il latino è la base della nostra lingua ed era una contadina, pensa un po', letterata, addirittura scriveva e studiava il latino, ha studiato il latino è andata a lezione di latino per poter insegnarlo a me e a mio fratello.” Mika: “veramente?” Fo: “ e le cose che io so di latino io le devo solo a mia mamma” Mika: “ bé questo è molto interessante, anche io ho studiato latino e non sapevo perché, e adesso capisco che ho potuto imparare l'italiano in due mesi perché ho imparato prima il latino..” Fo: “ e il francese” Mika: “anche , e ho cantato tanto nella chiesa da piccolo e cantavo tutte queste parole e allora dicevo ' devo capire un po' di latino per capire un po' il senso' ”. Fo: “ ma lo sai che io a otto anni sono stato proprio preso di mano e portato in una schola cantorum, si chiamava così” Mika: “schola cantorum, anche io, all'oratorio di Brompton Road (South Kensington) a Londra” Fo: “ io invece in una piccola cattedrale che era la succursale del Duomo di Milano. Ed ero stato scelto tra i più importanti come vocalità, avevo una vocalità che era eccezionale a detta naturalmente dei maestri che mi insegnavano” Mika: “ ma è quasi la stessa storia, ho iniziato a otto anni e ho imparato un lavoro” Fo: “ e tu ti ricordi ancora un motivo del canto?” Mika. “ ma si ma tutti” Fo: “ dai dimmene uno e io te ne dico un altro chissà che non si assomiglino.. cosa era il tuo canto gregoriano?” Mika: “ si” Fo: “invece noi eravamo ambrosiano” (Mika canta il pater noster gregoriano) (Fo canta anche lui sempre latino) Mika: “ ma quando tu canti questa cosa tu lo fai con gioia, normalmente la chiesa è noiosa anche in Inghilterra è così (mimica facciale con occhi incrociati).. loro pensano,.. no non lo so a che pensano ma non c'è gioia in questi canti” Fo: “ma forse perché da noi ha un' origine popolare straordinaria è stata inventata prima ancora del gregoriano, e ambrosiano e erano del tempo della guerra. Cioè loror avevano occupato tutte le chiese a Milano possibili e inimmaginabili in modo tale che i concorrenti della religione opposta ma sempre cristiana entrassero e se le prendessero , allora c'era l'imperatore, quindi dovevano rimanere là, donne, uomini, la famiglia non c'era più, la famiglia era dentro la chiesa e cantavano dalla mattina alla sera, si inventavano le canzoni, mettendo parole religiose in canti ad esempio volgari, cioè dalla tradizione volgare per esempio c'era un canto bellissimo che fa (canta) “come è bello andare a far l'amore nei prati pieni di rugiada e abbracciarsi con la tua donna” questo è il canto volgare, adesso ti faccio sentire quello che è diventato il canto religioso (canta in latino). Mika: (ride) “ bellissimo!” Fo: “ Ma bello il fatto che tutti e due abbiamo questa origine” Mika: “ si! Ma si per me era una cosa molto importante perché ho imparato il mio lavoro e anche per me il lavoro era nella Chiesa ma anche io ero molto felice quando lavoravo nella chiesa perchè per me la chiesa era un mondo molto..” Fo: “ti difendeva?” Mika: “ si esatto era per me un cercare e un trovare un valore e un'identità con la protezione di tutta questa gente, avevamo tutti i …. oh come ho dimenticato come si dice priests.. ah ecco di tutti i padri! Con tutti i padri e mi piaceva l'idea della cerimonia, ho capito l'idea del teatro...” Fo: “.. nella rappresentazione dei fatti religiosi” Mika: “esatto!” Fo: “negli atti, cioè la morte di Dio, la resurrezione, il gloria, la Pasqua .. ma a proposito di questo nella nostra tradizione c'è una cosa che non si studia mai ma che bellissima. Quando c'era la Pasqua c'era il gaudium pasqualis, cioè bisognava essere felici e bisognava dimostrarlo e bisognava inventare uno stato d'animo e delle situazioni nel teatro appunto che dessero felicità a tutti e tutti ridessero e tutti si abbracciassero e facessero atti di amore e passione, pensa un po', E questo naturalmente è stato proibito perché di colpo poi la Chiesa pian piano ha perso questa giocondità, questo rito di festa e di gioia perché nasce Cristo ed eccetera, ed è entrato quello della malinconia e della serietà, non si portano i cani in Chiesa..” Mika: “AH io porto SEMPRE il mio cane in Chiesa ho anche foto del mio cane sempre in Chiesa per Natale ad esempio e per Pasqua lei è sempre in Chiesa e io conosco bene tutti i padri e conosco quelli che sono simpatici e quelli che sono antipatici allora io vado per qui e per lì in chiesa per evitare i padri che non sono simpatici ma io vado sempre in questa Chiesa quando devo pensare un po' quando devo cercare un po' di... (con la mano f a intendere che riflette in chiesa). Allo stesso tempo io non sono strutturalmente religioso perchè io sono la persona che io sono, e per me ci sono delle contraddizioni nella politica della chiesa e per me ho capito che ci saranno sempre contraddizioni e questo non è sempre facile da capire. Anche per gli altri. Quando io dico che vado in chiesa perché mi piace gli altri mi chiedono 'Hey perché??' “ Fo: “senti e da parte delle cose inventate , un fenomeno una cosa, un qualcosa che pensavi religioso o sacro, che so per esempio il purgatorio, lo sai, c'è inferno e c'è il purgatorio. Mika: “ si lo so. Ho detto sempre che mi piace il purgatorio, ma tu mi hai detto che questo non esiste..” Fo: “ è inventato, completamente inventato” Mika. “questo non va bene perché il paradiso è una cosa pesante perché tutti sono perfetti, i ricchi hanno pagato troppo per andare li', tutto troppo pulito, tanta pressione, nono io non voglio vivere tutta la mia vita da morto.. un giorno quando io sono morto voglio essere tranquillo e mediocre (ride) e l'inferno è troppo caldo, no? Noi siamo perfetti per il purgatorio ma perchè tu stai dicendo che non esiste?” Fo: “ma il purgatorio è servito alla Chiesa in un momento di crisi finanziario hanno incassato soldi a non finire perchè si pagava perchè , non si davano i soldi cosi direttamente, i preti cantavano, c'erano riti c'erano feste e i preti cantavano per indurre la gente a essere generosa”. Chapter 2, thanks to Sherlocked Mika: ma questa idea del purgatorio, alla scuola, perché io sono andato a una scuola religiosa, che si chiama la scuola di Santo Filipe… Dario: dove questo? Mika: A Londra Dario: A londra Mika: fa parte del… Dario: della tua cultura e del tuo mondo Mika: si.. ma loro hanno sempre, hanno sempre spiegato questa idea del purgatorio, dell’inferno e del paradiso. Ma questo è una cosa pericolosa, secondo me, per tutti questi bambini che guardano, che capiscono che imparano questa idea di purgatorio, di inferno di paradiso Dario: ma la cosa incredibile è che nella religione cristiana all’inizio il problema del paradiso non era indicato nell’aldilà ma esattamente nella terra. Gesù non è che predicasse e promettesse l’aldilà ma subito, in questo mondo, bisogna trasformare questo mondo perché diventi un paradiso Mika: ma nessuno ha detto questo nel tutta mia educazione alla scuola o anche religiosa quando io ero bambino, nessuno ha detto questa cosa Dario: e beh perché è stata censurata Mika: non hanno detto una volta Mika: ma perché? Perché no? Dario: eh lo so ma tu.. allora anche.. tu sai che per esempio il termine inferno nel Vangelo non esiste. Esiste soltanto un luogo dove c’è del fuoco e il luogo dove andavano a bruciare le porcherie avanzate, lo scarto del mangiare, della vita e via dicendo, come oggi si riempiono tutte le periferie delle città di questi fuochi, ecco quello era l’inferno, ma non lo aveva mai chiamato come inferno Mika: allora per te Dario, che c’è dopo? Dario: ma perché di là cosa c’era? C’era il fatto che quando Gesù muore prima di resuscitare va all’inferno e spacca completamente.. questo è nei racconti sacri, no? Spacca tutto quanto, la porta, il luogo di entrare che era chiuso, e libera gli uomini puliti, subito, chiari, e fra questi Adamo ed Eva che erano stati puniti e mandati appunto all’inferno perché avevano offeso dio disubbidendo e facendo come gli paresse o gli pareva, è meglio dire. E allora spacca tutto e le prime persone che salva sono proprio Adamo ed Eva, l’inizio degli uomini, lo riabilita. Ci sono delle pitture bellissime dell’ottavo secolo, dell’undicesimo, eccetera eccetera, bellissime che raccontano questo momento di Cristo. È splendido che Cristo cancelli quella che è tutta una disciplina ormai religiosa che vuole la nascita con la sofferenza, il senso del peccato, della colpa, e poi la tristezza, nascere con dolore, il parto, tutto avanti fino alla morte. E questo è stato cancellato dal vangelo Mika: quando? Dario: è tutto nel discorso di Cristo, cristo parla sempre della possibilità di ritrovare la gioia e la felicità tra gli uomini Mika: nella vita Dario: da vivi Mika: da vivi, si Dario; non da morti, non dall’aldilà.. aspettare, avrete la benedizione, no? Mika si ma se troviamo tutta questa gioia, questo equilibrio, questa illuminazione quando siamo vivendo, che c’è dopo? Dario: qualcuno, un poeta, ha detto che l’aldilà avrà una dimensione di festa e di felicità determinata da qualcosa che noi nella vita abbiamo sfiorato molte volte, tutto quello che ci è piaciuto della vita diventerà nell’aldilà luogo comune, compreso anche l’amore, e io credo che sia.. non si parla mai dell’amore sessuale nel paradiso, eppure è uno dei doni più grandi, anzi, il dono fondamentale di Dio agli uomini e alle donne è stato proprio quello, quando di colpo li libera, prima di tutto gli dice scegli tra quest’albero e questo albero: questo ti fa eterno, questo invece non ti fa eterno ma ti produce la coscienza. La coscienza. E allora l’uomo che prende coscienza prende anche l’amore, e di colpo nelle immagini medievali, subito la donna, tum, partono le tette, gli vengono delle tette meravigliose. E poi c’è il sesso del maschio, subito, tanto è vero che dio, che cosa ho fatto, ho esagerato, e gli dà due foglie perché si coprano. E alla donna danno delle foglie per non coprire niente e infatti se le mette in mezzo ai seni. Dario: Scusa una cosa Mika: si Dario: . Proprio mentre parliamo di questi fatti, del modo di leggere la religione, subito a me viene in mente San Francesco. San Francesco per me è importante, lo sto recitando in questi giorni, qui lo sai benissimo, ecco, tu che cosa conosci di san Francesco, e poi di quello che sai e che cosa pensi Mika: Ok. san Francesco per me è un santo, una persona molto gentile con gli animali e anche con i poveri, con le persone che sono malate. ho visto questo film di Zeffirelli, una versione, lo so, molto.. un po’ romantizzata Dario: rosa... romantizzata Mika: rosa. Un po’ fragola, un po’ rosa. Ma per me San Francesco era anche quando ero bambino una versione della religione molto.. una dolcezza, una cosa dolce dentro di tutte queste storie un po’.. Dario: infatti è una rivoluzione del pensiero perche lui a un certo punto quando fa le laudi in cui parla del sole della bellezza l’acqua, le cose semplici, lui proprio Mika: quasi buddisti, tutte queste cose Dario: esalta l’intelligenza di dio il quale ci fa dei doni straordinariamente magnifici, liberi, per tutti, facili di avere tanto al povero che al ricco, e che l’acqua insomma non si deve comprare. Quando.. io sto parlando al tempo di San Francesco, poi han incominciato a comprarla e a venderla e ancora oggi ci sono discussioni se deve essere lo stato ad offrirtela oppure i grandi impegni di carattere commerciale e via dicendo. Ma la cosa enorme di San Francesco che a pochi entra bene nella testa è il fatto della comunità. Cioè San Francesco non ti insegna ad essere felice tu da solo, anzi, è un errore grave. Tu devi cercare la felicità con gli altri, comunicarla, offrirla, dar la possibilità di entrare e accoglierla e goderla con gli altri. Poi proprio lo svolgimento enorme è il fatto che lui cancella il gioco della carità. Cioè dici come, è l’uomo che pensava… no, dice ognuno di voi deve fare carità per proprio conto a chi ne ha bisogno, lo riconosci, lo vedi, ogni giorno non hai bisogno neanche di cercarlo, basta che ti muovi e vedi dei disperati, se tu hai la possibilità di aiutarli aiutali subito, non bisogna che tu deleghi qualcuno a farlo Mika: tutto un sistema di carità Dario: perché quello di raccogliere i beni per poi distribuirli è la massima forza di potere che tu puoi acquisire. Il potere. Cioè la carità diventa potere, e tu devi cancellarla, non devi accettarla. Quindi rivoluzionario fino in fondo. e poi Mika: ma anche per oggi Dario: si, certo. E poi la cosa che dice veramente rivoluzionaria in assoluto nella coscienza diciamo della vita è il fatto che anche le cose di cui bisogna ringraziare dio sono anche il dolore in certi momenti e soprattutto la morte. E c’è questa cosa incredibile nella sua morte che viene naturalmente riportato dai suoi seguaci, che lui esalta la dolcezza e l’amore di dio che nel momento in cui lui sta morendo ci sono tutte le stelle nel cielo e dice: io sto morendo, sto impalato (?) nel buio e tu mi accendi tutte le luci del cielo. Grazie, dice. Questo onore anche alla gloria e la paura che la gente ha della morte è determinato proprio dalla memoria della propria vita. Ecco, il castigo non è là quando arrivi all’inferno, ma è nel momento in cui tu fai i conti con la tua vita. Che cosa hai fatto, cosa hai dato? Se tu hai dato a degli altri tu hai ricchezza e non hai più paura della morte, ma la hai se tu devi lasciare tutti i beni che hai conquistato che ti rendi conto in quel momento che non contano niente, che non sono niente. È quello che dice anche il Papa. Ecco, a proposito, il Papa mi piacerebbe sentire quello che… lo hai sentito? Lo hai sentito leggere o raccontare delle cose? Mika: Papa Francesco? Dario: si Mika: Si, per me anche tutte immagini. Un papa che anche.. anche con le foto, fotograficamente è un papa che non ha paura di mettersi così, con la gente. Dario: fuori di gestualità ieratiche Edited June 24, 2014 by Elwendin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elwendin Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) English translation part 1 Chapter 1, thanks to Marta RAI Auditorium in Naples (ciak.... and action!) Fo: "well, I was wondering... where is your mother now? " Mika: "I don't know if she's here ... ah yes, she is." Fo: "For me, my mother has been fundamental .. I ask you which function has she, not only in your private life, but in your job, what does she do?" Mika: "from the practical side?" Fo: "yes!" Mika: "We have worked together from the beginning...before, her job was always changing...we worked together when they thrown me out of the school...working with my mother, I learned how to interpret all the things, even to sing, everything .. Fo: 'the school from which you have been thrown out, was a school of art, of music? " Mika: "No, it was a French school in London .. it was very difficult...now I work with my mother, we work with all my dresses, even with this strawberry dress.." Fo: "Has she drawn it?" Mika. "No, she does a little of styling. I do not know, I have always worked with my mother, but when people see my mother and me together, they do not think that this woman is my mother. We have a bit strange relationship ... i mean, I have a lot of space, I have my life, I can say what I want to say, she can do the same. We're together but separate. I think this is a relationship that helps me so much even in my private life. I always want to have my own... (with the hands making the sign of space, of a sort of division) " Fo: "I ask you a question that is important for me, because It has been important with my mother .. when you make something that you think is important... or when you have doubts and you turn to your mother to see what she thinks about... if your mother is negative about what you're doing...do you go into crisis or do you accept it? " Mika: (laughs) "well, we are always in war .. always in a position of war. I do not know why, but in fact she is much more punk than me, she is much more open than me...I am more like...how do you say ... " Fo: "rigid?" Mika: "yeah, I'm rigid, she is a bit more Lebanese, I'm a bit more German (laughs)" Fo: "Do you want to know why I asked you? My mother did not want me to stop training for a simple and traditional education, she wanted me to learn Latin, because she said that Latin was the basis of our language... and she was only a farmer, think about it for a moment...she was a farmer but she was literate, and she could write and she studied Latin...she went to Latin lessons to teach it to my brother and me. " Mika: "really?" Fo: "yes, and all the things that I know about Latin, they are only to my mom" Mika: "well, this is very interesting, I also studied Latin and did not know why...but now I realize that I've learnt Italian in two months because I first learned Latin .." Fo "yes, and the same is for French.." Mika: "Moreover, when I was a child I sang a lot in Church... and I sang all that words and then I said to me: 'I need to understand a bit' of Latin to understand a little of 'sense'..." Fo: "but do you know that when I was just eight years old, they took me by the hand and brought in a singing school, in a "schola cantorum" . Mika: "Oh, yes, me too...I was in a "schola cantorum", in the oratory of Brompton Road (South Kensington) in London" Fo: "I was in a small cathedral that was the branch of the Duomo of Milan. And I was chosen as one of the most important vocalist of the choir, I had a voice, a vocal style that was exceptional... in the opinion of the teachers who taught me " Mika: "but it's almost the same story of mine, I started singing at eight years old and I've learned a job" Fo: "and can you still remember a song?" Mika: "Oh yes, I remember all the songs" Fo: "oh, tell me one song...I will tell you another one... who knows, it could be almost the same song.. did your sing a Gregorian chant?" Mika: "yes" Fo: "oh...instead our chant, it was an Ambrosian chant" (Mika sings the Gregorian "pater noster") (Fo sings in Latin) Mika: "But when you sing this song...you sing it with joy...normally the Church in England is so boring (facial expressions with crossed eyes) .. they think about...no, I don't know what they think about, but there is no joy in their songs " Fo: "but maybe because here, [the pratic of singing songs] has a popular origin really extraordinary ...it was invented, Ambrosian chant even before of the Gregorian chant, to take the rhythm during the war [i think in the sense of keeping pace during a march]. At that time, all the Churches of Milan has been occupied...to avoid that the competitors of the opposite religion (even if it was always a Christian religion!) could enter in the Churches to catch and occupy them...and there was also the Emperor...so people had to stay there, inside the Churches: men, women... the family didn't exist anymore, the family was inside the Church and they sang from morning to evening, inventing songs, putting religious words into vulgar songs, from the vernacular tradition. For example, there was this beautiful song...(he sings) "how beautiful is, going in the meadows filled with dew to make love , and embracing your woman" this is the song in vulgar...now I'll sing the song in latin, with the religious words [Fo sings it in Latin, and the sense of the song changes completely...a joyfull and funny song has been transformed into a serious and religious chant]. Mika: (laughs) "beautiful!" Fo: "and it's nice that we both have this origin" Mika: "Yes! But for me it was a very important thing, because I learned my first job and for me the job was in the Church ...but I was also very happy when I was working in the Church because the Church for me was a world very much .. " Fo: "It has defended you?" Mika: "yes, exactly. For me, it was a sort of searching and finding a value and an identity with the protection of all these people, all these.... ah, I forget, how do you say "priest" (in english) .. ah fathers! ...with all these fathers and I liked the idea of the ceremony, I could understand the idea of the theater ... " Fo: ".. in the representation of religious facts!" Mika, "Exactly!" Fo: "in religious acts, that are the death of God, the Resurrection, the Glory, Easter .. but about this, in our tradition there is one thing that you do not study at school, but that is beautiful. When it was Easter Time, there was the moment of the "gaudium pasqualis" [easter joy]...in that period you had to be happy and you had to prove it and you had to invent a mood and situations in the theater that just gave happiness to everyone and everyone laughed and they all embraced each other and they did acts of love and passion... oh think about it...and this moment, of course, was soon forbidden... because the Church gradually lost this gaiety, this rite of celebration and joy for Christ's birth, and so on...and it became a Church full of melancholy and seriousness...you know...do not bring dogs at Church!!" Mika: "Ah, I always bring my dog with me when i go to the Church! I also have pictures of my dog and me in the Church for Christmas and Easter for example, she [the dog] is always in the Church, and I know very well all the fathers...and those who are friendly and those who are not...and I go for here and there in the Church to avoid the fathers who are not polite... but I always go to this Church when I have to think a little, when I have to find a little of... (with the hand it suggests concentration, meditation). At the same time I'm not structurally religious because I am the person that I am, and for me there are contradictions in the politics of the Church...and I realized that there will always be contradictions and this is not always easy to understand. Also for the other people that i know, when I say that I go to Church because I like it, the others ask to me: 'Hey, why? " Fo: "and what about all the invented things, a "phenomenon something", something that you thought religious or sacred... for example Purgatory... you know, there is Hell and Purgatory. Mika: "Yes, i know. I've always said that I like Purgatory, but you told me that Purgatory does not exist .. " Fo "yes, Purgatory is invented, totally invented. Mika: "Ah, this is not good because Paradise is a "heavy thing" because everyone is so perfect, the rich have paid too much for them to go there...and all is too clean, so much pressure..oh no, I do not want to live my whole life by dead .. one day, when I will be dead, I'll want to be quiet and mediocre (laughs)... and Hell is too hot! We are perfect for Purgatory, but why you're saying that it does not exist? " Fo: " the Purgatory was usefull to the Church in a time of deep financial crisis..they have earned so much money because you had to pay [to buy the entrance in Heaven and not to remain in Purgatory]...and you couldn't give them the money directly...the priests sang, there were festivities and rituals where priests could sing to cause people to be generous." Chapter 2, thanks to Lucrezia and LogLady Lucrezia's: Mika: but this idea of Purgatory, at school, because I went to a religious school, called the School of the Holy Filipe... Dario: Where? Mika: In London Dario: In London Mika: it’s part of… Dario: …of your culture and your world Mika: yes… Mika: but they always have... they always explained this idea of Purgatory, Hell and Heaven. But this is a dangerous thing, in my opinion, for all of these children who watch like..., who understand that they learn this idea of Purgatory, Hell and Heaven Dario: but the amazing thing is that in the Christian religion, in the beginning, the problem of Heaven wasn’t shown in the afterlife, but exactly in the earth. Jesus didn't preach or promise the afterlife, but now, in this world, we must transform this world to make it a heaven Mika: but no one has said this in all my religious education at school or even when I was a child, no one said this thing Dario: oh well... it was because it was censored Mika: They didn’t tell it… Mika: But why? Why not? Dario: Eh I know but you…. And then even… you know, for example, the term hell in the Gospel does not exist. There is only one place where there is fire, and the place where they were going to burn the garbage advanced, the difference of eating, of life and so on, as now they fill all the suburbs of the cities with these fires, here is what was the Hell, but they’ve never called it as Hell Mika: so, for you Dario, what's next? Dario: but why ? what was in the other side? There was the fact that when Jesus died, before resurrecting, goes to the Hell and he breaks completely that place.. this is the sacred tales, right? He smashes everything, the door, the place of entrance which was closed, and he frees clean men, immediately and among them Adam and Eve who were punished and sent to hell just because they had offended God disobeying him and doing as they like, it is better to say. And then he breaks everything and the first people he saves are precisely Adam and Eve, the beginning of mankind, he rehabilitates them. There are beautiful paintings of the eighth century, of the eleventh, and so on, which tell this moment of Jesus. It is wonderful that Jesus erases it that it's a whole religious discipline that wants birth with the suffering, the sense of sin, of the guilt, and then the sadness, born with pain, the childbirth, fully forward until death. And this was deleted from the Gospel. Mika: when? Dario: it's all in the discourse of Jesus...Jesus always talks about the possibility of finding joy and happiness among men Mika: during the life Dario: alive Mika: alive, yes Dario: not dead, not from the other side... just wait and you'll have the blessing, right? Mika: yes, but if we find all this joy, this balance, this illumination when we are living, what's next? Dario: someone, a poet, said that the afterlife will have a size of celebration and happiness determined by something in life that we have touched so many times, everything we liked about the life, in the hereafter, will become a commonplace, even including the love, and I believe it is... they never speak of sexual love in Paradise, yet it's one of the greatest gifts, indeed, the fundamental gift of God to men and women is just this one, when suddenly he frees them, first of all tells them: choose between this tree and this tree: this one makes you eternal instead this one doesn't make you eternal but it produces you the consciousness. The consciousness. And then the man, who becomes conscious, takes even the love, and suddenly in the medieval images, the woman immediately, tum, is with the boobs, wonderful boobs.... And then there's the male sex, at once, so much so that God: what have I done, I've exaggerated!!! and gives him two leaves to cover it. And the woman doesn't have nothing to cover in fact she puts them between her breasts. Dario: Sorry just a thing Mika: yes Dario: Just as we speak of these facts, how to read the religion, I immediately think of S. Francesco. S. Francesco is important for me, I'm playing him these days, you know it, here, what do you know about S. Francesco, and then from what you know, what do you think about him? Mika: Ok. S. Francesco for me is a saint, a very kind person with animals and even with the poor, with people who are sick. I saw this film by Franco Zeffirelli, a version, I know, a lot .. a bit sentimentalized Dario: yes... a sentimentalized version LogLady's: M: Romantic (in Italian the word “pink” when referred to a novel means “romantic”. So he says “pink” and points out at his own strawberry-pink suit), a bit strawberry, a bit romantic. Also, San Francesco for me when I was a kid was a very sweet version of religion, one sweet thing among all these stories that were a little… D: It is indeed a revolution of thinking, because at a certain point, when he praises with his laude the sun, the beauty, the water, the simple things, he… M: Almost buddhist, all these things. D: ...He glorifies the intelligence of God, who gives us some extroardinarily magnificent gifts, which are free, for everyone, equally easy to have for the poor man and the rich one, like water, which is free. Well, I’m talking about San Francesco’s age, nowadays water is sold and bought and it’s still a matter of discussion whether the State or the private companies have to provide it. Anyway, the enormous thing about San Francesco that few people seem to get into their head is the concept of community. That is, san Francesco doesn’t teach you to be happy on your own, quite the contrary, this is a terrible mistake. You have to look for happiness with others, communicate it, offer it, give others the chance to enter and welcome happiness, and enjoy it with them. And besides, the huge development is the fact that he erases the charity’s game. You might say “How come?”. He says “Each one of you has to do work for charity on his own for those who are in need. You can see it everyday, you don’t even need to look for it, you just have to move and you’ll see some desperate people. If you have the chance, help them right away, you don’t have to delegate someone to do it. M: A whole charity system… D: Because collecting the goods in order to distribute them later is the maximum power force you can acquire. Power. So charity becomes power and you have to erase it, not accept it. Therefore, he was revolutionary all the way. M: Well, for today too. D: Yes, of course. Furthermore, the absolutely revolutionary thing he says about life's consciousness is that the things we have to thank God for are also the pain in certain moments and death above all. And there’s this incredible thing in his death, which was reported from his followers: he extols God's sweetness and love, and when he’s about to die the sky is full of stars and he says: “I’m dying, I’m standing still in the dark and you've turned on all the lights in the sky. Thank you”. This honour to the glory and the fear that people have of death is determined by the memory of his own life. Here, your punishment is not going to hell, it’s coming to terms with your life. What have you done, what did you give? If you gave to others, you have richness and you’re not afraid of death anymore; you are though if you have to leave all the possessions you gained and you realize in that moment that they mean nothing, they are nothing. This is what the Pope says too. Here, speaking of which, I would like to hear what you think about the Pope. Have you heard him read or tell something? M: Pope Francis? D: Yes. M: Yes, all the pictures too. He’s a pope who, even with the pictures, photographically, is not afraid to approach people like this. D: Yes, without solemn gestures. Edited June 25, 2014 by Elwendin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alireine Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 So, I finally watched the dialogue (still have to watch Dario's show in itself) and I really liked it. Of course I could only understand, let's say, 30% of what they were talking about, but it's already enough to understand that it was very interesting Waiting for the translation of our amazing team to go deeper in what was said, but just a few things about my impressions: - Dario is an old man with his "imperfections", but he was really respectufull of Mika, very interested in him and patient enough imo. - there were some moments when I felt they were both a bit lost or not on the same path and moments when they didn't know how to answer to the other, but it often happends in conversations, even if people perfectly speak the same language. I'm giving "French conversation" lessons and, in one hour, I can tell you that even if we are really into the subject, sometimes we need 2 or 3 seconds to continue talking, to take a new branch of the path - Mika was a bit lost because of the language I guess (you Italian fans know better ), and also because Dario's mind is going so fast Even if Mika has many knowledges, it was obvious that there were things that Dario was teaching him, so I think it was too many things to deal with at the same time for Mika poor boy - He seemed very interested in what Dario was explaining, and willing to know more, to learn more about it. - he had his own opinions and ideas on the subject, I can't talk about them in details now but let's wait for the translation - he was humble (? in a positive meaning), and I like that so much. Even if he obviously knows many things about many subjects, he showed clearly (imo) that he was aware of, and even maybe "ashamed" of, not knowing so many things as Dario on the subject. And I felt as if he wanted to know more. And as if this conversation with Dario had led him to want to discover more about many things, to educate himself even more (I think that's something that he always wanted, but maybe his encounter with Dario gave him a new impulse As he tweeted at the time of the recording: "Spending time with a genius put many things in perspective") - this attitude (that I love) is the reason why I found it strange for him to write NOW an autobiography (see Mikasounds Twitter Updates thread): he is aware of having so much to learn and to live compared to other people that he admires like Dario, I would have thought that he would prefer to wait to be older to write something about himself. Anyway, we will see in autumn - I love Mika, he is my Dario Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marta. Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 In my opinion, this "conversation" has been beautiful, a real gem, I liked it almost more thant the Fo's show that came after. Two men talking of the life, of the history, of the culture of a nation, of a group of people, but in reality talking about themselves and humanity in general. One man is older, he lived more, and he knows many things. The other one is younger, but he has lived so much and knows many things, you can see it in every word and every gesture . They live different lives, they know different things ... but maybe not, while they were talking, they have found to have shared a lot more than they thought. They were doing "culture". I do not think Mika will ever forget that evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alireine Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Thank you for the transcriptions and translation so far! You rocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alireine Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 In my opinion, this "conversation" has been beautiful, a real gem, I liked it almost more thant the Fo's show that came after. Two men talking of the life, of the history, of the culture of a nation, of a group of people, but in reality talking about themselves and humanity in general. One man is older, he lived more, and he knows many things. The other one is younger, but he has lived so much and knows many things, you can see it in every word and every gesture . They live different lives, they know different things ... but maybe not, while they were talking, they have found to have shared a lot more than they thought. They were doing "culture". I do not think Mika will ever forget that evening. Totally agree with what you said, especially the bold parts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerMoment1608 Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Girls, you are amazing Thanks for your transcribing and translating work that is going on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log lady Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) I'm too tired to discuss it now, sorry, my head would explode if I tried to put my thoughts in a decent English. I basically agree with what Melanie said. Anyway, here's a part of chapter 2. The rest is coming tomorrow. Feel free to correct me if something is wrong. Enjoy! M: So for you, Dario, what there is after death? D: Well what happens in the Holy Scriptures? Jesus dies, before resurrecting he goes to hell and smashes everything, the door, the entrance that was closed. And he imediately frees the pure, clear men, and among them Adam and Eve, who had been punished and sent to hell because they had offended God by disobeying and doing as they liked. So he smashes everything and the first people he saves are Adam and Eve, the beginning of mankind, he rehabilitates it. There are some beautiful paintings from the VIII century, from the XI, etc., that tell this story. It is wonderful that Christ erases something that now is a whole religious discipline that contemplates birth with suffering, the sense of sin and guilt, and then the sorrow, being born with pain, the labour, all going on until death. And this was erased from the Gospel. M: When? D: It’s all in Christ’s speech, he always speaks about the possibility of finding again the joy and the happiness among men. M: In life. D: While living. M: While living, yes. D: Not after death, not in the afterlife, “wait and you’ll have the blessing", no. M: Well then, if we find all this joy, this self-confidence*, this enlightenment when we’re living, what there is after? *he uses a made-up word here, “balanza”, I’m not sure of what he meant. I translated it as if it were “baldanza” Edited June 24, 2014 by Log lady Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie20 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Italian transcription Chapter one, thanks to Anninasala Dialogo MIKA e FO Auditorium RAI di Napoli (motore.. azione!) Mika si ma se troviamo tutta questa gioia, questa balanza (?), questa illuminazione quando siamo vivendo, che c’è dopo? M: Well then, if we find all this joy, this self-confidence*, this enlightenment when we’re living, what there is after? *he uses a made-up word here, “balanza”, I’m not sure of what he meant. I translated it as if it were “baldanza” It can be, that is maybe he wanted to say, balance = armonia, equilibrio? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kumazzz Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) Ok, so being ill made me focused on how to save the vid from rai... Here's the direct link to the video: http://creativemedia3.rai.it/podcastcdn/raiuno/Francesco_Lu_Santo_Jullare/2709839.mp4 Once you open the link, if you go on "File", "Save page as..." you should be able to save the video as .mp4 I'm sure that Eriko or someone of our girls will provide you soon a sendspace or mediafire link but for the meantime, fro those who want to save the video, it's at your disposal with this little trick:teehee: Grazie mille Lucrezia !!!! The file is too large to upload to Mediafire. VK http://vk.com/video232312753_169176110 Dailymotion Edited June 24, 2014 by Kumazzz adding VIDEO url. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diani Avelino Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Thanks and good translation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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