Mika and Dario Fo on "Francesco. Lo Santo Jullare" - RAI1 (Italian TV) 22nd June 2014

[Kumazzz]

Dialogue!!!

 

http://www.rai.tv/dl/RaiTV/programmi/media/ContentItem-f9cfdb65-3a67-4cc3-8405-5998c2c4ef65.html

 

Thanks to Meri on Twitter

 

I took screen-caps from the video.

 

SLIDE SHOW http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/eriko-z/slideshow/2014_06_22%20Dario%20Fo%20TV/2014_06_22%20Dario_Fo_and_Mika

 

some of them

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kumazzz]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

VK http://vk.com/video232312753_169176110

DM

[mari62]

Here are my first impressions about the conversation between Dario Fo and Mika: I've watched it with hubby, and I must say, that we were both totally absorbed and interested

Dario Fo has a very wide culture and you can learn from everything he tells: little stories, anecdotes, insights.

Although his Italian has dramatically improved, it's clear, that Mika can't fully express his thoughts and feelings about such a deep and delicate subject in a language, that he doesn't master. Nevertheless he showed his usual intelligent, witty, brilliant, caring, sensitive, deep self

It's been a special and unique encounter, surely much more than he could ever dream of.

Edited June 24, 2014 by mari62
deleted double pronoun

[mari62]

The first post has been updated with links to the videos and transcript + translation (in progress).

 

Thanks everyone contributing to this thread (and to MFC in general), your work is much appreciated

Edited June 24, 2014 by mari62

[tiibet]

Amazing job from Italian team Thank you so much! I wish I had time to focus this right now but must wait later tonight. Feeling impatient, this must have been a very special moment for him.

Edited June 24, 2014 by tiibet

[Alireine]

Eriko, your screen caps of Mika's different faces are priceless

I will definitely use them for my job for teaching vocabulary of emotions

[paty_2692]

I'm too tired to discuss it now, sorry, my head would explode if I tried to put my thoughts in a decent English. I basically agree with what Melanie said.

Anyway, here's a part of chapter 2. The rest is coming tomorrow. Feel free to correct me if something is wrong. Enjoy!

 

M: So for you, Dario, what there is after death?

D: Well what happens in the Holy Scriptures? Jesus dies, before resurrecting he goes to hell and smashes everything, the door, the entrance that was closed. And he imediately frees the pure, clear men, and among them Adam and Eve, who had been punished and sent to hell because they had offended God by disobeying and doing as they liked. So he smashes everything and the first people he saves are Adam and Eve, the beginning of mankind, he rehabilitates it. There are some beautiful paintings from the VIII century, from the XI, etc., that tell this story. It is wonderful that Christ erases something that now is a whole religious discipline that contemplates birth with suffering, the sense of sin and guilt, and then the sorrow, being born with pain, the labour, all going on until death. And this was erased from the Gospel.

M: When?

D: It’s all in Christ’s speech, he always speaks about the possibility of finding again the joy and the happiness among men.

M: In life.

D: While living.

M: While living, yes.

D: Not after death, not in the afterlife, “wait and you’ll have the blessing", no.

M: Well then, if we find all this joy, this self-confidence*, this enlightenment when we’re living, what there is after?

*he uses a made-up word here, “balanza”, I’m not sure of what he meant. I translated it as if it were “baldanza”

 

 

thank you all so much for the translations!!!

 

turns out, I can actually understand part of what they're saying! haha I think it's a really interesting conversation, you can truly feel that Dario Fo is a real genius, and Mika is completely absorbed...

this video is completely different of what I'm used to see about Mika, and I'm so grateful for it!

[krysady]

Thank you so much for your work,italian team! The translation would have been more than enough,but you did the transcript too It is a huge effort,thanks again!

[LeiRe]

It can be, that is maybe he wanted to say, balance = armonia, equilibrio?

 

That's what I was thinking, too. Balanza is actually a Spanish word, meaning this:

 

[mari62]

It can be, that is maybe he wanted to say, balance = armonia, equilibrio?

 

That's what I was thinking, too. Balanza is actually a Spanish word, meaning this:

 

yes, I think as well, he meant 'balance' - in Italian 'equilibrio'

[Elwendin]

Thank you so much for your work,italian team! The translation would have been more than enough,but you did the transcript too It is a huge effort,thanks again!

 

Well, actually the transcription is quite necessary when it comes to translate a vid or an audio.

But yeah. We did it on purpose cause we are totally nice

 

I corrected balanza with equilibrio (=balance) and will keep an eye on the english version when I'll get it.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Elwendin

[Elwendin]

So. Apparently posts do have a lenght limit, hence a second part is needed.

 

Italian transcription part 2

 

Chapter 3, thanks to AllyB

 

Mika: sì, senza, senza troppo cerimonia…

Fo: anzi ha rifiutato…

Mika: …senza troppo giocare questo sistema di protezione, organizzazione, lui è un po’, un po’ più anarchico…

Fo: Sì

Mika: …ma anche per questo immediatamente, immediatamente, dopo qualche ore, lui è diventato una icona

Fo: Sì

Mika: molto veloce, è chiaro che secondo me, secondo tanti della mia, nella mia generazione abbiamo bisogno veramente di un Papa con coraggio in questo momento, perché ci sono tante cose che, che non, che non vanno bene, ma anche a stesso tempo si vede che c’è una, una contraddizione nel sistema adesso, perché anche se quando lui ha parlato, per esempio, nel 2013, dell’omosessualità, tutte le persone del mondo hanno detto “incredibile, questo Papa sta dicendo io…chi…chi…chi… come ha detto in italiano?”

Fo: Sì, ha detto…

Mika: chi sei io per…

Fo: “Chi sono io per…”

Mika: esatto!

Fo: Chi sono io per poter giudicare un omosessuale se è nel giusto, nel bene, o nel male

Mika: esatto, esatto

Fo: un… un coraggio anche lessicale non male eh…

Mika: Chiaramente

Fo: …di dichiarazione…

Mika: Finalmente

Fo: …in una, nel razzismo spaventoso sul piano sessuale che esiste in Italia

Mika: per me è anche lo so per tanti miei amici, noi guardiamo molto questo Papa e speriamo tanto nel lui

Fo: Pensa un po’ come io, che sono ateo… (ride)

Mika: ateo che cosa vuol dire?

Fo: Ateo, che cioè non ho, non ho una fede religiosa

Mika: veramente? (dice con sorpresa) Ma tu sei molto religioso nei miei occhi

Fo: no no, ho senso della religione e rispetto moltissimo la religiosità dei popoli

Mika: ma Dario ho visto una cosa… (guarda il polso di Fo sorridendo)

Fo: Ah, questa catenina (avvicina il polso per far vedere la catenina/rosario tenuto al polso)

Mika: sì sì, ma guarda (osserva la catenina)

Fo: la catenina… ebbene questa è

Mika: Santa Caterina

Fo: sì, è mia nipote, una nipotina piccola, che me l’ha data quando aveva sei anni, e mi ha detto “tienila”, e io non la mollo mai proprio, ed è l’unico ciondolo che ho, che porto nella mia vita

Mika: ho visto e ho detto “ah lui è religioso”

Fo: sì sì lo tengo in ricordo di questo senso di dolcezza e di amore

Mika: ma secondo me tu sei una persona che ti ha sempra, sempre… che parla sempre della tolleranza della spiritualità, una persona molto religioso

Fo: sì una religiosità, ma non sono un religioso, è assurdo…

Mika: ma, io sono lo stesso

Fo: ah ecco vedi

Mika: mi piace la chiesa ma non mi piace anche tutte le, non mi piace tutte le cose che dicono nella chiesa, non posso capire

Fo: Beh ma bisogna sempre dire sta crescendo un grande quantità, la presenza di uomini stupendi nella chiesa, ieri c’erano a teatro dei, dei sacerdoti che fanno lavori incredibili verso i poveri, i disperati che conosco da anni e niente, mi han dato persino i consigli su San Francesca, loro non sono Francescani, di cose straordinarie che loro hanno scoperto leggendo i testi che sono riapparsi dopo la censura, e me li hanno narrati, e io non volevo più neanche andare a casa, volevo he continuassero a parlare

Mika: … (sorride)

Fo: va be…

Mika: Lui era un anarchico

Fo: sì

Mika: San Francesco,

Fo: sì, di sicuro

Mika: Tu sei un anarchico (Fo ride)

Fo: senz’altro…

Mika: non sei un anarchico accidentale, (Fo ride) tu sei un anarchico, lui era un enfant terrible litteramente, perché suo padre era…

Fo: ricco mercante, bravo

Mika: tu sei un enfant terrible

Fo: sì (ride)

Mika: sì è vero, tu sei l’unico adesso

Fo: ma bisognerebbe spiegare che cos’è sul piano del linguaggio “enfant terrible”, cioè è uno che, dillo, dillo come l’hai raccontato l’altra volta con me

Mika: che ho detto?

Fo: Hai detto, hai parlato della… uscire completamente degli schemi e della tradizione, e della imposizione, dello stile che ogni potere inventa e impone, così hai detto

Mika: sì, ho sempre guardato tutti gli enfant terrible nella mia vita, grandi artisti, anche persone nella politica per esempio, ma non ci sono tanti adesso secondo me, non lo so

Fo: sono un po’ calati ultimamente si è vero

Mika: tu sei uno. Voglio riscaldarmi vicino di te, perché tu sei uno dei ultimi (Fo ride)

Fo: tu lo sei anche, si vede

Mika: ma no! No no no, perché per essere un anarchico con, che trasmessa solo positività un vero anarchico, un anarchico con su…st… come se dice? Construivo… constructing

Fo: sì che cerca di costruire le cose non di distruggere per il piacere del massacro come fanno credere, non credere che gli anarchici…

Mika: una persona ha bisogno di tante cose nella testa, tanta educazione

Fo: ma San Francesco davvero era anarchico, lo era nello spirito, nel rifiuto delle convenzioni, del luogo comune, delle banalità, dell’ovvio. C’è un pezzo in cui lui ha inventato il presepe. Il presepe non era con le statuine come oggi, ma era animato da persone vere. Lui aveva raccolto insieme a degli altri, addirittura un sovvenzionatore aveva che l’ha aiutato, e ha preso duemila persone del popolo, di tutti i mestieri ecc ecc, e li ha portati in tutti i paesi a visitare la nascita di Gesù, e c’era una donna che aveva appena partorito, che faceva la parte della Madonna, ed era proprio suo il figlio e se lo aveva in braccio l’allattava, e c’erano poi l’arrivo dei Re Magi, canti e la gioia, e angeli che volavano, dei ragazzini legati sulle piante alte che venivano fatti oscillare e qualcuno cadeva ma lo prendevano al volo, perché non poteva certo morire. (Mika ride) L’hanno cancellato. Il fatto di ritornare al presepe con le statuine era togliere la presenza dell’uomo, gli uomini che da soli nella povertà, nell’umiltà, non c’erano ricchi quando, quando è nato Gesù, è nato in una stalla, che i ricchi arrivano e dicevano “voglio vedere questi poveri come nascono, il Dio dei poveri”, allora, allora tutta questa forma viene cancellata, hanno censurato persino il presepe, e questo nessuno lo sa, no dice, qualcuno lo sa ma non vuole che gli altri lo sappiano

Mika: ma, come tu lo sai?

Fo: Eh? Forse lo sanno (ride)

Mika: tutte queste cose, ma come tu sai tutte queste cose?

Fo: perché ho letto…

Mika: tu non sei religioso, tu non sei cristiano, si dice?

Fo: Sì, ma lo sono di cultura, perché poi è più importante essere di cultura cristiana che fare così, stare nel rito e non capire che cos’è il cristianesimo

Mika: tu fa, in un momento alla sera o al mattino o durante un momento un po’ duro il segno della… (fa il segno della croce)

Fo: no, no, non lo faccio mai

Mika: non l’hai mai fatto?

Fo: no… da bambino

Mika: da bambino

Fo: da bambino, ma quando…

Mika: è una priera?

Fo: Le preghiere le conosco tutte, poi ho detto, ho imparato a cantare in chiesa, quindi ho una religione qui (si indica la testa)

Mika: ma adesso tu dici(?) tutte queste priere, no?

Fo: ma ogni tanto le visito con attenzione e scopro delle cose fondamentali, per esempio nella nostra scuola c’era la nostra chiesa fino ad un certo tempo, intorno al mille, c’erano, c’erano i matronei. Cos’erano i matronei? Matrona è la, è la donna no? La signora, come dicono tutti

Mika: matrone, matrona

Fo: come?

Mika: matrone

Fo: certo! Costringevano le donne ad assistere a messa non nella navata, ma nei matronei, e i matronei erano delle grate, per cui la donna, dal sotto, non si vedeva, si sapeva che c’erano le donne. Le donne potevano vedere gli uomini, ma gli uomini non potevano vedere le donne, perché la donna portava via dall’attenzione profonda alla religione. La storia, la religione di quel tempo era il rapporta fra l’uomo, maschio, e Dio, la donna era secondaria, era stata cancellata, era stata condannata, era quella che aveva rotto l’uomo ecce cc

Mika: sì, è vero…

Fo: ma il fatto di buttarle fuori, è stato una rivoluzione. Il primo che sappiamo, l’uomo di Modena…ad un certo punti gli abitanti di Modena, si sono trovati a dover gestire la propria vita da soli, non c’era più l’imperatore, perché era in guerra con un altro gruppo, poi soprattutto c’erano i vescovi e i cardinali con tre, ad un certo avevo letto, tre Papi insieme, per cui non sapevano quale fosse il Papa vero, e c’era un conflitto, in poche parole, uno sfascio della chiesa. Allora, sfascio della chiesa, sfascio dell’impero, questo paese, che era allagato, si ritrova a mettere in piedi, tutta l’andamento, le fogne ecc ecc, e scopre di potercela fare, quindi dice “basta! Andiamo da soli, ma dobbiamo avere anche la chiesa, la religione la teniamo, sì, ma ne costruiamo una noi”, hanno smontato una chiesa appena fatta e l’hanno rimontata come interessava a loro. La prima cosa che hanno fatto, hanno tolto i matronei, le donne e gli uomini stavano insieme, tornavano insieme come nell’antica chiesa, e soprattutto l’uso che si faceva della chiesa, se c’era qualcuno che non aveva da dormire, il primo luogo doveva essere ospitato, era la casa di Dio, non un andare intorno, ma proprio la casa di Dio, il posto per dormire, e questo è vivere.

 

 

Chapter 4, thanks to Charlie20

 

Dario: se c’era qualcuno che non aveva da dormire, il primo luogo dove essere ospitato era la casa di Dio, non mandare intorno.ma proprio la casa di Dio, il posto per dormire.E questo è vivere.

Mika: E adesso, questo, funzionerà?Ci sono tante persone che sono nelle strade senza…

D: Sì

M: senza…

D: disperate..

M: senza letti, sì.

D: e soprattutto con l’urlo di chi dice : venite qui a mangiare il nostro pane e portarci via..

M: e, secondo te, (per) loro, sarà meglio se noi apriamo tutte le chiese?

D: mah!In questi tempi disperati, proprio sì

M: io sono d’accordo con te

D: bisogna avere il coraggio di fare in modo che gli spazi che sono di Dio siano degli uomini, prima ancora

M: sono d’accordo con te

D: e quelli che non hanno, che sono…beh, se io da cristiano penso, se fossi profondamente cristiano, penso che sarebbe una cosa stupenda, avere questo gesto.finalmente i vescovi e i cardinali…

M: anche se dobbiamo dare, anche se dobbiamo dare soldi per adattare le “chiuse”

D: sì.le chiese

M: le chiese.questo sarà una funzione…

D: è un lapsus freudiano,questo quelle (delle) “chiuse”

M: le chiuse, le chiese (ride)

D: quegli spazi, aprire le chiuse

M: più che freudiano, infatti, è molto chiaro questo lapsus.Ma lo sai, tu hai detto una cosa che è molto importante per me, anche per tante persone della mia età: tu non sei cristiano, tu non sei religioso.Tu non fa (fai) parte de.., non ti piace questa etichetta

D: sì

M: okay.ma quando ti ho chiesto perché tu conosci tanto bene

D: sì, la religione

M: la religione, la istoria (storia),ma la vera, anche tu sei ossessionato per cercare la verità

D: ma perché è cultura

M: perché tu hai detto questa parola: cultura.infatti, è vero, perché anche se io non sono religioso, ma io sono abitualmente religioso, più di te, secondo me

D: sì

M: anche se io sono molto più ignorante che (di) te

D: hai tempo, sai? - Ridono - per poterti leggere e studiare..

M: ma io sono sempre in fretta, per me non c’è tempo.ma noi, io e, secondo me, tanti altri, siamo molto condizionati dalla religione, e non sappiamo perché o como.o come. per esempio,tutte queste cose con le donne, questo misoginismo (misoginia)

D: sì

M: questa, la identità, la (il) valore di una donna.ma, veramente, con la storia della religione, questo è una cosa che è collegata al fondo (io penso lui voglia dire “alla base”, “alla radice o all'origine”)

D: una delle cose per cui, se non ci si sbriga, non si rimedia, è facile che ci sia un depeuperamento (depauperamento), insomma, no, decadimento, è meglio dirlo, della Chiesa, perché non puoi in una civiltà dove le donne crescono del sapere, si trovano in una università, in certi casi più avanti e soprattutto più agguerrite nel voler conoscere e distruggere i luoghi comuni, le banalità e soprattutto aprire la conoscenza anche alle femmine povere, non soltanto a quelle ricche

M: sì

D: allora dico..

M: ma questo è la..

D: bisogna stare attenti.se la Chiesa non apre le proprie porte, in questo caso anche al rito, anche alla presenza, come era all’inizio, perché le donne erano quelle che aprivano il canto.Tu vai nei sotterranei, dove vivevano i primi cristiani, e scopri che la donna, è sui dipinti, la donna cantava come prima voce perché gli altri la seguissero e dava le parole, cioè dettava le parole del canto, oltre che la vocalità.noi abbiamo scoperto una cosa: che siamo due cantori, da bambini, naturalmente

M: sì

D: della chiesa

M: scuola (schola) cantorum

D: e una delle cose che noi avevamo imparato era l’improvvisazione.anche voi facevate improvvisazione?

M: sì, no.

D: no

M: no, no, no

D: non vi insegnavano a improvvisare su di un ritmo, un andamento?

M: no, perché la mia scuola (schola cantorum) era molto mediocre

D: mediocre.beh, allora, la "storziamo" (storpiare, pronunciare male le parole?). no, noi eravamo gloriosi

M: tutto il latino con un accento inglese, era orribile, cattivo!

D: ma adesso non lo facciamo più in latino.adesso facciamo un grammelot

M: grammelot

D: una lingua che è inventato (inventata)

M: questo mi piace di più

D: è tua, mia, tua, ecc. e parliamo di quello che è il senso della vita, cioè la vita di tutti i giorni, col sole che nasce e poi il vento, e poi la pioggia, e poi una tempesta e poi c’è la gente che va nella chiesa.nella chiesa poi si sposano, hanno un figlio, la donna si ingrossa nel ventre, le grida del parto e la gioia, poi giocare coi figli e crescerli e piano piano si diventa vecchi, ci si addormenta più facilmente e pian piano finisce una vita.è stata una bella vita, oppure una vita triste e di nessuno. chi ci ricorda di questa vita?

M: ah!

D: più o meno.eh?

M: okay

D: va bene.allora,partiamo

M: un’opera d’arte in 30 secondi

D: sì, in 30 secondi

M: senza pressione.grazie, dario fo!

D: il ritmo è …

M : troppo alto, dario

D: troppo alto per te?

M: sì. tataratara, no tataratara. ok.va bene?

D: cominciamo.benissimo

M: okay

D: vai. allora.Ohh

M: shh, respiriamo.respiriamo

Ma io non sono pronto.io non sono pronto

D: cominciamo daccapo

M: shh

D: tu preparati

M: okay

D: vai, vai tu

 

Qui dario fo canta e parla in grammelot, una sequenza di suoni, perciò una trascrizione esatta è impossibile.così io ho scritto solo le parole comprensibili, almeno a/per me.

 

D: o la vita mia, la fattoria...

M: così della mamma, grande, grande, grande, grande, grande…

D: è nato, è nato

M: pum, un figlio

D: ……

M: Chi è? Il nonno?

D: lu nonno

M: un giorno tu sarai ricco.questo è un nonno libanese: un giorno tu sarai un dottore, un avvocato

D: lavora adesso nei campi, nei campi sotto la pioggia, chiove, chiove (piove, piove).Oh, che dolce, chiove, chiove, la tempesta, l’acqua, l’acqua, che viene, quella annega, annega… respira, respira, torna a vita. la chiesa, … pregare

M: la chiesa?ohh

D: ah, che bella quella femmena, che a me me piace, e io voglio sposare, vanno davanti a lo prete e un matrimonio fanno

M: paparapapapapa

D: evviva gli sposi.amore, amore…poh, di novo (di nuovo), un altro figliolo, figliolo

M: questa volta è una figlia

D: una figlia

M: e adesso, la nonna:un giorno tu sarai... ma le donne..

D: sì, le donne

M: sì, la nonna

D: cresce, cresce, cresce, diventa un… tu sarà un signore, signore tu sarai

M: pronti? (fa il gesto di passare il bambino)

D: e andrai a lavorar.l’uomo cresce, cresce, dolce …. Finisce questa vita, la vita torna torna

M: hanno perso i figli, perché loro sono andati a New York

D: sì, anche così

M: ma loro sono qui a Napoli, aspettando

D: soli…. e chi si ricorda di noi? e chi si ricorda di noi? annimme, andiamo, ah.

finito!

- Ridono -

D: è vero, è vero, è vero.Andiamo!

M: bellissimo!

D: lo spettacolo ha inizio tra poco

M: sì

D: ci lasciamo

M: ma adesso io posso guardare lo spettacolo?

D: sì

M: con gli occhi aperti

D: con gli occhi aperti, spalancati

M: ma tu hai vuotato la mia testa.con tutte queste informazioni tu hai fatto completamente l’inverso.

D: alla rovescia (al rovescio)

M: sì, ho aperto la mia testa e ho fatto così, ho tutto sul tavolo e dopo tu hai pulito il tavolo.e allora io niente.io posso ascoltare, senza niente

D: ma spero che però ti sia rimasto..

M: occhi aperti, orecchie…orecchie?

D: sì, le orecchie

M: ho sempre pensato che (le) orecchie era una forma di pasta, ma no.orecchie aperte, anche

D: le orecchiette (infatti le orecchiette sono un tipo di pasta tipico della regione Puglia).Va bene

M: eh, in bocca al lupo

D: ci vediamo dopo, alla fine

M: tu parli al lupo, allora…

D: il lupo, certo

M: al lupo

D: addio, addio, addio.Ciao!ciao, ciao.Via, ciao.Su!

Mika mormora qualcosa, ma non riesco a capire

Edited June 24, 2014 by Elwendin

[Elwendin]

English translation part 2

 

 

Chapter 3, thanks to Elwendin and Maggie112

 

Elwendin

M: yes, without much ceremony

F: on the contrary, he refused

M: without too much playing this protection system, organization, he’s a bit… a bit more anarchic

F: yes

M: but also he turned into an icon immediately, after a bunch of hours, because of this

F: yes

M: Really quickly. It’s clear, in my opinion, that many in my generation really need a brave pope right now, because there are many things that aren’t going well, but in the meantime we see a contradiction in the system now, because when he talked about homosexuality in 2013, everyone in the world said “this is incredible, this pope is saying” …. What did he said in Italian?

F: yes, he said…

M: who are you for me to…

F: who am I to …

M: right!

F: who am I to judge if a gay is right or wrong.

M: exactly, exactly.

F: such a boldness, even in the choice of the words, uh?

M: clearly

F: in statement…

M: at last

F: amid the awful racism on a sexual level that we have here in Italy

M: me and my friends, we look very much at this pope and we have faith(hope) in him

M: Imagine that, it’s a bit like me, I’m atheistic

F: what does atheistic mean?

F: atheistic, I have no religious faith

M: really? But in my eyes you are very religious!

F: no, no, I just have a sense of religion and I respect people’s religiousness very much

M: but, Dario, I saw something .. (he stares at Dario’s wrist, smiling)

F: Ah, this chainlet

M: yes, yes, look

F: the chainlet, well, this is…

M: Saint Catherine

F: yes, it was my little granddaughter, she gave it to me when she was six, and she told me “keep it”, and I never leave it, I have no other pendants, this is the only one I use to wear in my life.

M: I saw that and thought: “ah, he’s religious”

F: yes, I keep it as a sweetness and love memory

M: in my opinion you are a man who always talks about tolerance of spirituality, a very religious man.

F: yes, a religiousness, but I’m not religious, it’s absurd

M: but I’m the same

F: ah, see?!

M: I like the church but I don’t like all the things they say in the church, I can’t understand.

F: well, we must say that there are more and more wonderful people in the church, yesterday some priests, who I’ve been knowing for years, were here at the theatre, they are doing an unbelievable job for the poor, the desperate. They even gave to me some advices on San Francesco, they aren’t Franciscans, they told me amazing things by reading some texts that reappeared after the censorship, they told me about them, and I didn’t even want to go home anymore, I wanted them to keep talking.

Mika smiles and Fo goes … “well”…..

M: he was an anarchist

F: he was

M: San Francesco

F: yes, for sure

M: you are an anarchist

F: sure I am

M: you are no accidental anarchist, you are an anarchist, he was an enfant terrible, literally, as his father was…

F: a wealthy merchant , bravo

M: you are an enfant terrible

F: I am

M: yes, that’s true, you are the only one right now

F: but we should explain what enfant terrible means, he is… say it. Say it like you told me last time

M: what did I say?

F: You talked about thinking out of the box, overstepping the tradition, the obligation and the style that are made up by every authority

M: yes, I always looked at every enfant terrible in my life, great artists, also people in the politics for instance, but in my opinion there aren’t many at the moment, I don’t know.

F: that’s true, they’ve been decreasing lately

M: you are one of them. I want to warm up by staying close to you, cause you’re one of the lasts.

F: you are as well, I can see it

M: no! no no no, cause in order to be an anachirst who communicates only positivity, a real constructing anarchist…

 

Maggie112

Fo: Yes, it's someone who tries to build things, not to destroy, for the pleasure of massacre as they want us to believe, don't believe that anarchists...

M: Everyone needs so much things in his own head, so much education...

Fo: San Francesco really was an anarchist, it was his spirit, his refusal of conventions,clichès, banalities,obvious. There is a piece where he invented nativity scene. It wasn't with statues as we know it right now, it was animated by real people. He gathered together, with the help of others,even a financier,about 2000 people from the working class, from every job, and he took them to visit the nativity. There was a woman who had just given birth, who played Virgin Mary,and she was with her real baby,and when she was holding him in her arms she fed him, and then there were the Three Wise Men, chants and joy, angels flying, little boys tied on high trees who swung, and if some of them fell down, he was caught, because they were not meant to die. (mika laughs). It was cancelled. Going back to the statue nativity scene version, means removing human participation, people who were alone in their poverty, humility, there weren't rich people when Jesus was born, he was born in a barn, where rich people came and used to say “I want to see how poor ones are born, the God of poor...”, then, all this structure was cancelled, they censored even the nativity scene, an d nobody knows, or nobody says, or someone knows but he doesn't want others to know.

M : And why do you know about that?

Fo: Eh? Maybe they know (laughs)

M : all these things....how do you know all these things?

Fo: Because I read...

M : You aren't religious, you aren't a Christian, can I say?

Fo: Yes, but I have the culture, because it's more important having a Christian culture than acting, celebrating the ritual but don't understanding Christianity.

M : are you doing, in the morning or in the night, or in a difficult moment (and he does the sign of cross)

Fo: No, no, I never do that

M: Haven't you ever done that?

Fo: No....when I was a child...

M: When I was a child...

Fo: When I was a child, but when...

M : Is it a prayer?

Fo : I know all prayers, then I learnt to sing in a church, so I have a religion here (and he points to his head)

M: But now, are you saying all these prayers?

Fo: Sometimes I visit them and I find some essential things,for example, in our school, there was our church, around 1000 A.D, there were matroneums. What were matroneums? Matrons were the women, weren't they? The lady, as everyone says.

M : Matrons, matron

Fo: What?

M : Matron

Fo: Sure! They forced women to attend the mass in matroneums, not in the central aisle, and matroneums were gratings, so , from downstairs, women weren't seen, even if people knew they were there. Women could see men, but men couldn't see women, because women could take them away from religion deep attention. History, religion at the time was a relation between men and god, while women had a secondary importance role, they were cancelled, they were condemned, they were the ones who ruined men....

M : Yes, it's true...

Fo: But the action of kicking them out, it was a revolution. The first one that we know, the man from Modena... then suddenly Modena citizens were left to manage their life by themselves, they hadn't the emperor anymore , he was making war with another group, and above all, there were bishops and cardinals with three, at a certain moment, three different popes together, people didn't know who was the real pope, so it was a conflict, the Church was smashed up. So, the Church was smashed up, the empire was smashed up, so this town, which was flooded, had to build again all its walks, all its sewers.. ad they found out that they could do that, so he said “Stop! We can go on by ourselves, but we need to have the chutch too, we want to keep our religion, but we build our own” . They disassembled a new church and they assembled it again as they wanted. They first thing they did, they removed matroneums, men and women stayed together, they were back together as in ancient churchs, and above all, the way churchs were used, if there was someone who needed somewhere to sleep, the first place to host him, was the House of God, not going around, but the real House of God, the place to stay, an this is living.

 

 

 

Chapter 4, thanks to Charlie20

 

Dario: if there was someone who didn't have to sleep (a place to sleep) ,the first place to be hosted was the house of God, don't send around.but it is precisely the house of God, the place to sleep. And this is to live.

Mika: and now, this, will it work? There are many people who are in the streets without ...

D: yes

M: without ...

D: desperate…

M:without beds, yes.

D: and especially with the cry/scream of those who say: you come here to eat our bread and take away ..

M: and, according to you, (for) them, it will be better if we open all the churches?

D: mah! In these desperate times, just yes (I think so/I would say so)

M: I agree with you

D: we must have the courage to make the spaces, that are of God, to be of the men, even before.

M: I agree with you

D: and those who have not, who are ... well, if I think, as a Christian, if I were deeply Christian, I think it would be a wonderful thing, to have this gesture. finally the bishops and the cardinals ...

M: even if we have to give, even if we have to give money to adapt the "closed"

D: yes.the churches

M: the churches .this will be a function/use ...

D: this, of the "closed", is a Freudian lapsus/slip

M: the “closed”, the churches (he laughs)

D: those spaces, open the “closed” (here's a play on words: “closed” or gates, locks, but also closed minds)

M: more than Freudian, in fact, this lapsus/slip of the tongue is very clear. But you know, you said one thing that is very important to me, even for many people my age: you're not Christian, you're not religious. You're not part of..., you don’t like this label

D: yes

M: okay. but when I asked you why you know so well..

D: yes, the religion

M: religion, history, but the real, you're obsessed with the search for truth

D: but because it’s culture

M: because you said this word: culture. In fact/indeed, it’s true, because even though I'm not religious, but I'm habitually religious, more than you, I think

D: yes

M: although I'm much more ignorant than you

D: you have time, you know? - They laugh - to be able to read and study ..

M: but I'm always in a hurry, there's no time for me. but we, I and, I think, many others, we are very influenced/conditioned by religion, and we don't know why or how. for example, all of these things with (the) women, this misogyny

D: yes

M: this, the identity, the value of a woman. but, really, with the history of religion, this is one thing that is connected to the bottom/deep end (I think he meant "at the base", "to the root or origin")

D: one of the things that, if we don't hurry up, is not remedied, it is likely that there is a depletion/impoverishment, in short, no, decay, it's better to say, of the Church, because you can't in a society where women are growing of the knowledge , are in a university, in some cases further on, and far more aggressive in wanting to learn and to destroy clichés, banalities, and especially open the knowledge also to the poor females (women), not just those rich

M: yes

D: then I say ..

M: but this is the ..

D: you have to/must (or it’s necessary to) be careful. if the Church does not open its doors, in this case also to the rite, even to the presence, as it was in the beginning, because the women were the ones that opened the chant/singing. You go in the underground, where the early Christians lived, and discover that the woman, it’s on the paintings, she sang as the (first/)main voice because the others would follow her (/for the others were to follow her), and she gave the words, that is, she dictated the words of the song, as well as the vocality. we have discovered one thing: that we are two cantors, as children, of course.

M: yes

D: of the church

M: school (schola) cantorum

D: and one of the things we had learned was improvisation. also you were doing improvisation (/did you do improvisation as well)?

M: yes.no.

D: no

M: no, no, no

D: they didn't teach you to improvise on a rhythm, a tempo/movement?

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempo ,

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempo_(musica

or movimento (musica: parte di una composizione) (music) movement = movement (music: part of a composition) (music) movement )

M: no, because my school (schola cantorum) was very mediocre

D: mediocre. Well, then, "storziamo" it .[storcere=twist "storpiare le parole (al punto da renderle incomprensibili) " = "mangle the words (to the point of making them unintelligible/ incomprehensible)"/mispronounce words]

No, we were glorious

M: all the Latin with an English accent, it was horrible, bad!

D: but now we don't do it in Latin anymore.Now we do a grammelot

M: grammelot

D: a language that is invented

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammelot , http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammelot )

M: I like this more

D: it’s yours, mine, yours, etc.. and we talk about what is the meaning of life, ie (/that is) the life of every day, with the sun rising and then the wind, and then the rain, and then a storm and then there's the people who go into the church. in the church, then, they get married, have a child, the woman swells in the belly , the cries of birth and the joy, then play with the children and raise them and gradually (/little by little) you get old, you fall asleep more easily and gradually a life ends . it was a good life or a sad life and of no one. who reminds us of this life?

M: ah!

D: more or less.eh?

M: okay

D: all right.So, let's start

M: a work of art in 30 seconds

D: yes, in 30 seconds

M: (without pressure/)no pressure. Thanks, dario fo!

D: the rhythm is ...

M: too high, Dario

D: too high for you?

M: yes. tataratara, no tataratara. okay. all right?

D: Let’s start (/begin).very well/perfect

M: okay

D: Go. so. Ohh

M: shh, let’s breathe. Let’s breathe.

But I'm not ready. I'm not ready

D: let's start all over again

M: shh

D: you get ready

M: okay

D: go, you go

 

Here dario fo sings and speaks in grammelot, a sequence of sounds, so an exact transcription is impossible. so I just wrote the words understandable/comprehensible, at least to/for me.

 

D: my life, the farm ...

M: so, of the mom, great, great, great, great, great ...

D: (he) is born, (he) is born

M: pum, a son (/child/baby)

D: ….

M: who is it/he? The grandfather?

D: the grandfather

M: one day you'll be rich. this is a Lebanese grandfather: one day you'll be a doctor, a lawyer

D: now works in the fields, in the fields in the rain, it rains, it rains, Oh, what a sweet, it rains, rains, the storm, the water, the water, that (/which) comes (/fall), that drowns, drowns ... breathes, breathes, come back to life. the church, ...pray ...

M: the church? Ohh

D: ah, what a nice that girl (/woman), who I like, and I want to marry, (they) go in front of the priest and make a marriage

M: paparapapapapa

D: Long live the bride and groom/hooray the newlyweds. love, love ... poh, again, another son, son (Child/baby)

M: this time is a daughter (baby girl)

D: a daughter (baby girl)

M: and now, the grandmother: one day you will be ... but the women ..

D: : yes, the women

M: yes, the grandmother

D: grows, grows, grows, becomes a ... you'll be a gentleman, gentleman you will be

M: Ready? (making the gesture of passing the child)

D: and you will go to work. The man grows, grows, sweet .... this life ends, the life comes back, comes back

M: they have lost their children, because they have gone to New York

D: yes, even so

M: but they are here in Naples, waiting

D: only .... and who remembers us? and who remembers us? We go, ah! finished! (or it's over/ end)

- they laugh –

D: it’s true, it’s true, it’s true. Let’s go!

M: beautiful!

D: the show begins shortly (soon, in a little while)

M: yes

D: we separate

M: but now I can watch the show?

D: yes

M: with open eyes

D: with the eyes open, wide open

M: but you have emptied my head. with all this information you have done completely the inverse/opposite.

D: at the reverse/inside out

M: yes, I opened my head and I did so, I have everything on the table and after you have cleaned the table. So I (have) nothing. I can listen, without anything

D: but I hope, however, that (something) is remained to/with you

M : open eyes, ears ... ears?

D: yes, the ears

M: I always thought that (the) ears was a form of pasta, but no. open ears, even

(he meant orecchiette. orecchie = ears, orecchiette = orecchiette pasta)

D: orecchiette pasta (orecchiette are in fact a type of pasta typical of Puglia region http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orecchiette). Alright

M : huh, good luck (“in bocca al lupo” literally is "into the mouth of the wolf". it is often used as a theather expression. This is offered up to someone to instill courage, since they are about to attempt a task that is very noteworthy. The well wisher offers this to their colleague and the response to it is "crepi il lupo" "I shall eat the wolf" http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1881 )

D: I'll see you later, at the end

M: you speak to the wolf, then ... (referring to St. Francis and the Wolf)

D: the wolf, sure/of course

M: to the wolf

D: goodbye, goodbye, goodbye. Bye! Bye, bye!Go, bye!Come on!

Mika murmurs something, but I can’t understand

Edited June 26, 2014 by Elwendin

[mamiam]

Thank you so much for your work,italian team! The translation would have been more than enough,but you did the transcript too It is a huge effort,thanks again!

 

+ 1 YES - grazie mille !! You're a fantastic team!!

 

Love,love

me

[Kezza]

+ 1 YES - grazie mille !! You're a fantastic team!!

 

Love,love

me

 

What she said. Very grateful for the dedication and patience!

[AllyB]

Sorry for my english! I know it's sucks! I'm glad to have been part of this wonderful team! Thank you!

[crazyaboutmika]

Ok, so being ill made me focused on how to save the vid from rai...

 

Here's the direct link to the video:

http://creativemedia3.rai.it/podcastcdn/raiuno/Francesco_Lu_Santo_Jullare/2709839.mp4

 

Once you open the link, if you go on "File", "Save page as..." you should be able to save the video as .mp4

 

I'm sure that Eriko or someone of our girls will provide you soon a sendspace or mediafire link but for the meantime, fro those who want to save the video, it's at your disposal with this little trick:teehee:

Thank you so much Lucrezia

I was away on week end and sick too, no way to use earphones but now I can again , so I m saving it so I'll be able to listen to it a row since my netbook is blocked on Mika explaining how he works with his mother... and if I miss parts, I'll read the translation in English Thanks a lot girls , I love you all

Edited June 24, 2014 by crazyaboutmika

[robertina]

Sorry for my english! I know it's sucks! I'm glad to have been part of this wonderful team! Thank you!

 

[Elwendin]

We need him to release more looong stuff so that we can go for team work again. It's nice.

I tell you what. I'm tweeting that to him.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Elwendin

[AllyB]

We need him to release more looong stuff so that we can go for team work again. It's nice.

I tell you what. I'm tweeting that to him.

 

we make a petition ahahaha

[Sherlocked]

Sorry for my english! I know it's sucks! I'm glad to have been part of this wonderful team! Thank you!

 

We really are a great team for transcriptions and translations :thumb_yello:

[charlie20]

I just watched the first ten minutes of the vid and I need to share my temporary thoughts about it

I never give a fudge about religious stuff (it seems a kind of sermon) so I'm not that into the topic, but of course I enjoy Mika's anecdotes and perspective. The man seems willing to tell more but he's grounded both by the language and Dario Fo who keeps interrupting him

And sometimes he looks like me, attending a meeting with my boss: he has no clue of what Fo is saying but he pretends to be soooo interested "mh" "si"

Ok, I had prejudices about Dario Fo, I never saw a show of him but I decided it wasn't my scene (parents' influence)

Aaaaand I was right. I got bored, I got distracted many times, I got annoyed when he interrupted Mika as Mika was more interesting than him. Fo sometimes didn't make sense according to my pragmatic self and grammelot make me feel akward.

I'm sorry

When it comes to Mika, I'd like him to be able to go deeper but, as I said before, both language and Fo prevented him. I don't think he completely got Fo's point of view neither, he seemed lost now and again and struggling to find something to say in his replies, but I'm totally sure it's just because of the language.

I'm glad that he did it, though, for I suppose it was in his bucket list.

I have mine as well, and they don't have to correspond in every entry.

I suppose he wouldn't like spend a whole winter day working with dogs in the mud like I do, so I'm fine with him enjoying Dario Fo.

 

 

- Dario is an old man with his "imperfections", but he was really respectufull of Mika, very interested in him and patient enough imo.

 

- there were some moments when I felt they were both a bit lost or not on the same path and moments when they didn't know how to answer to the other, but it often happends in conversations, even if people perfectly speak the same language. I'm giving "French conversation" lessons and, in one hour, I can tell you that even if we are really into the subject, sometimes we need 2 or 3 seconds to continue talking, to take a new branch of the path

 

- Mika was a bit lost because of the language I guess (you Italian fans know better ), and also because Dario's mind is going so fast Even if Mika has many knowledges, it was obvious that there were things that Dario was teaching him, so I think it was too many things to deal with at the same time for Mika poor boy

 

- He seemed very interested in what Dario was explaining, and willing to know more, to learn more about it.

 

- he had his own opinions and ideas on the subject, I can't talk about them in details now but let's wait for the translation

- he was humble (? in a positive meaning), and I like that so much. Even if he obviously knows many things about many subjects, he showed clearly (imo) that he was aware of, and even maybe "ashamed" of, not knowing so many things as Dario on the subject. And I felt as if he wanted to know more. And as if this conversation with Dario had led him to want to discover more about many things, to educate himself even more (I think that's something that he always wanted, but maybe his encounter with Dario gave him a new impulse As he tweeted at the time of the recording: "Spending time with a genius put many things in perspective")

Here are my first impressions about the conversation between Dario Fo and Mika: I've watched it with hubby, and I must say, that we were both totally absorbed and interested

Dario Fo has a very wide culture and you can learn from everything he tells: little stories, anecdotes, insights.

Although his Italian has dramatically improved, it's clear, that Mika can't fully express his thoughts and feelings about such a deep and delicate subject in a language, that he doesn't master. Nevertheless he showed his usual intelligent, witty, brilliant, caring, sensitive, deep self

It's been a special and unique encounter, surely much more than he could ever dream of.

 

Although I don't agree with everything he says and has said in the past, I respect Dario Fo for his culture and his being a free thinker.This is a very important thing, especially in our society, and I think it’s especially this aspect which affects/interests Mika.This cultural encounter was interesting, but there were some moments when the discourse of Dario Fo was not very clear and, as you all well pointed out, Mika seemed a bit lost because of the language and because sometimes they weren't on the same wavelength.And I totally agree with Marina: "although his Italian has dramatically improved, it's clear, that Mika can't fully express his thoughts and feelings about such a deep and delicate subject in a language, that he doesn't master. Nevertheless he showed his usual intelligent, witty, brilliant, caring, sensitive, deep self" .You see that it's very difficult for him to express himself and say what he wants to say in Italian, and he has all my respect because he puts a lot of effort into it.He made me feel a sense of so much tenderness see him there to listen to "the story of everyday life", but of a "traditional" couple, in grammelot!!

 

yes, but talking about homosexuality, if they should listen to the catholic church, they would all burn in hell. This causes pain to many people, gay or not.

 

 

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with Dario Fo about the Pope.

This Pope is certainly very skilled in communicating, but the words are one thing and facts are another. And, specifically, the church has not changed its policy towards homosexuality and the rights of gay (LGBT) people, in fact the Pope has reiterated/confirmed it very clearly (family, marriage and children), while the famous phrase, although nice, was aimed at gay priests (chaste, then) and the alleged/presumed “gay lobby” in the Vatican.Recently he has also met the President of the French movement Manuf pour tous, giving his support and, it is said his advice, to their “fight".

Edited June 24, 2014 by charlie20

[krysady]

We need him to release more looong stuff so that we can go for team work again. It's nice.

I tell you what. I'm tweeting that to him.

 

I see you're on fire! .........I was thinking how wonderful would be for everyone to watch the vid with Mika and Dario Fo with english subtitles

 

[AllyB]

We really are a great team for transcriptions and translations :thumb_yello:

 

yep!

[robertina]

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with Dario Fo about the Pope.

This Pope is certainly very skilled in communicating, but the words are one thing and facts are another. And, specifically, the church has not changed its policy towards homosexuality and the rights of gay (LGBT) people, in fact the Pope has reiterated/confirmed it very clearly (family, marriage and children), while the famous phrase, although nice, was aimed at gay priests (chaste, then) and the alleged/presumed “gay lobby” in the Vatican.Recently he has also met the President of the French movement Manuf pour tous, giving his support and, it is said his advice, to their “fight".

 

I hope Mika knows, and I think he does, being very involved in the subject himself. But of course he could not say much....'me and my friends expect a lot from this Pope" he says....but hey, look at his face after saying it