RAK1 Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Okay, I'm not trying to defend the person who wrote this, as I'm not a big fan of journos with agendas, but I fail to see where exactly they are slagging him off. Calling him castrato is hardly having a go at him, maybe they got fed up with calling him falsetto and lets face it there is no other way of describing his voice. Despite the meaning behind the term, I find castrato singing very beautiful and poignant, and besides as we already know Mika doesn't take any notice of journalists so he'll either be shrugging this off as a marmite thing or laughing at the writer for being a prat. He's a big boy now and a lot more intelligent than most of the people who write about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendi Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 I submitted a comment to them Good luck with yours! I left a comment too - but can't see any on the page at all!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annabelle Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Okay, I'm not trying to defend the person who wrote this, as I'm not a big fan of journos with agendas, but I fail to see where exactly they are slagging him off. Calling him castrato is hardly having a go at him, maybe they got fed up with calling him falsetto and lets face it there is no other way of describing his voice.Despite the meaning behind the term, I find castrato singing very beautiful and poignant, and besides as we already know Mika doesn't take any notice of journalists so he'll either be shrugging this off as a marmite thing or laughing at the writer for being a prat. He's a big boy now and a lot more intelligent than most of the people who write about him. Well said! And if the guy who wrote this meant it to be offensive, than so be it. He's only making a fool of himself but he's lucky enough not be aware of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esperia75 Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Arion McNicoll In a PR gimmick that was surely devised by the most cunning of advertising minds, the new Fiat 500 ‘flew’ over London last night on the British Airways London Eye precisely 500 hours into 2008 to celebrate its UK launch. Already set to become ‘much beloved’, the update of the old Cinquecento was unveiled to coincide with Fiat’s 50th birthday in July last year amid a flurry of praise, celebrity and nostalgia. Last night’s London launch reprised the Italian event with 2007’s breakthrough castrato, Mika, crooning his way through his hit song. Also at the event were supermodel Eva Herzigova, reality TV survivor Kelly Osbourne, celebrity daughter Jade Jagger and UK model Agyness Deyn. http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/driving/features/article3231320.ece LMAO, I mean we know Mika has three and a half octaves but I'm pretty sure he isn't a castrato !!! Yes I know they don't mean it, but it's still funny. Castrato...OMG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avoca Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Yes it can and does mean neutered, but I think they are referring to the phenomenon of male operatic castrati and comparing Mika's high voice to that of a castrato singer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castrati I suppose it could be seen as intentionally rude towards Mika but I interpreted it more as thoughtless ignorance! The castrati were prized for their voices so in some ways it's a compliment . I know. I have seen a film about a 18th cent. opera singer, called faranelli or smt.. anyway, someone who's given up his masculinity (or better someone took this decision for him.. ) to preserve his soprano voice qualities. anyway, I learnt there was a precise type of musical education, so to speak, that was also a cultural phaenomenon back then. I think the journalist wanted to sound smart and squeeze in a cultural and elegant reference that sounded italian, as much as to, yes, mock mika for being, in his VERY humble opinion, someone who gave up a little of his masculinity in behalf of his artistic career, even if o.c. not giving up in a phisical sense... castrato????it's an awful word in italian! I'll make this guy become castrato! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cath85 Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 yep we know both the meanings..newspapers are never objective and in the articles just one word in a certain position can communicate a whole deployment yes but in English? I kinda have the feeling it doesn't have the 1st meaning of being really castrated in English. but I am not a native speaker so I don't even know where I got this feeling from haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzie Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 yes but in English? I kinda have the feeling it doesn't have the 1st meaning of being really castrated in English. but I am not a native speaker so I don't even know where I got this feeling from haha The point is that he used the Italian word because he thought his Oxford /Cambridge degree entitled him to, without actually being familiar with the exact meaning. Or if he was, that was defiitely meant as an offense... Anyway, you don't have to speak Italian just have some basic knowledge in classical music history to know what the word means.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niki27 Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 The point is that he used the Italian word because he thought his Oxford /Cambridge degree entitled him to, without actually being familiar with the exact meaning. Or if he was, that was defiitely meant as an offense... Anyway, you don't have to speak Italian just have some basic knowledge in classical music history to know what the word means.... That word has the exact same meaning in French as in Italian and honnestly I think it's offensive. But as RAK1 said, no point wasting our time with journalists that don't know their job properly, lack vocabulary, and don't have any knowledge of music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. Clay Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 I think it is just an ill-judged and ignorant comparison. Whoever wrote it obviously knows nothing about Castrati. They just think it's funny to imply Mika is castrated! I was actually laughing at their ignorance, not at the thought of Mika being somehow 'not a man' I could be wrong. Perhaps it was a thinly veiled insult. We see plenty of those don't we and I'm usually the first to complain We could always question it by leaving a comment with timesonline, but I tend to think it'd be lost on them... THINLY VEILED? NOT VERY! INSULT? YEP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elanorelle Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 its the wrong term! They used the wrong term....he is tenor! he could even be a countertenor!...but oh so bad...that is not the correct term to be used and it is bad form in that article. I believe MIKA is a high tenor and that is wonderful...but those sillies who don't know their music :mf_rosetinted: should get a slap from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelloKitty Lucy Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 That word has the exact same meaning in French as in Italian and honnestly I think it's offensive.But as RAK1 said, no point wasting our time with journalists that don't know their job properly, lack vocabulary, and don't have any knowledge of music. well...I think it's pretty offensive.but let's just say that I can't explain its meaning in a public internet page... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niki27 Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 well...I think it's pretty offensive.but let's just say that I can't explain its meaning in a public internet page... I fully understand the word, don't worry And Elanorelle is right,this is not the appropriate music term AT ALL. You can't use such a word to describe a vocal range. Idiots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelloKitty Lucy Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 I fully understand the word, don't worry And Elanorelle is right,this is not the appropriate music term AT ALL. You can't use such a word to describe a vocal range. Idiots I couldn't agree more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avoca Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 I fully understand the word, don't worry And Elanorelle is right,this is not the appropriate music term AT ALL. You can't use such a word to describe a vocal range. Idiots you can try and sound well educated and sophisticated, though. and fail miserably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendi Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 With the amount of replies he got - I don't think he will use that word again in a hurry!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. Clay Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 THINLY VEILED?NOT VERY! INSULT? YEP! D U E L at HIGH NOON http://utdanimation.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/duel.jpg http://www.blur.com/images/gentlemans_duel.jpg or send him to SWEENEY TODD at MID-NIGHT! . . . http://blog.cleveland.com/ent_impact_movies/2008/01/large_stodd0114.jpg http://weblogs.variety.com/thompsononhollywood/images/2007/08/26/johnnydepp_468x616.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HelloKitty Lucy Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 you can try and sound well educated and sophisticated, though. and fail miserably. definitely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elanorelle Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 I understand the term and there is nothing really wrong with it although it is castrati ,...but............................that is not the word to be used in this case as also one has to do research. If they said Countertenor then I think that would much nicer. I have a friend who is a professional countertenor in Cambridge England and he is certainly one of the most masculine people I know! he just has that gift of singing the high range,,,just like MIKA does! i just get miffed when people don't use their terms right when writing articles. The author really should have had more research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avoca Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 yeah, it's not the hint of being androgynous that pisses me off, as you know, eleonorelle. it's the fact he associates the thing of being androgynous with the fact of singing in falsetto and most of all, with the castrati's original sad destiny. I'm quite apalled of the lack of taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niki27 Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 yeah, it's not the hint of being androgynous that pisses me off, as you know, eleonorelle. it's the fact he associates the thing of being androgynous with the fact of singing in falsetto and most of all, with the castrati's original sad destiny. I'm quite apalled of the lack of taste. Good thing is at least castrati were considered as sex symbols If you've seen Farinelli, Avoca, you must remember this detail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avoca Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 well, kind of. it made me feel very sad for them, serious.. how horrible.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elanorelle Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 yeah, it's not the hint of being androgynous that pisses me off, as you know, eleonorelle. it's the fact he associates the thing of being androgynous with the fact of singing in falsetto and most of all, with the castrati's original sad destiny. I'm quite apalled of the lack of taste. it is very bad taste.....indeed, you see I studied this as I study opera theory and one of my conductors did a short film about the Castrati and its sad and as you said, Avoca.....the history of the castrati is very sad and was often abused and used by the musical community in the 1600s to 1700's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. Clay Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 definitely! http://www.kepplah.com/stuff/duel%5B1%5D.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 yes but in English? I kinda have the feeling it doesn't have the 1st meaning of being really castrated in English. but I am not a native speaker so I don't even know where I got this feeling from haha It doesn't mean castrated but you have to be castrated in order to be one, so it's effectively the same thing. Pretty unnecessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elanorelle Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 this is a film one of my former conductors wrote and directed.... it shows some of the oppression during the time just so you can get an idea... its a different angle...but you can see what I mean.... http://www.telefilm.gc.ca/data/production/prod_42.asp?lang=en&cat=tv&g=d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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