Concert Conduct

[Niki27]

Let's put it this way:

 

Dusseldorf:

ticket: 30 euro

fuel: 10 euro

accomodation: 25 euro

 

TOTAL: 65 euro

 

If the price of the ticket had been like it is for the best seated places in some arenas (over 80 euro if not more) that would have been almost twice the initial budget. So yes, it would have mattered.

 

Not everybody has the chance to live in the UK, nor to have Mika performing in their home country. And sometimes an increase in the price ticket can make a whole difference.

[Niki27]

*stands up and tries to walk to the stage and grabs the microfoon*

 

 

I would like to thank the lovely frence people at the front of the Queue that where trying to SQUEEZE in front of me even if there was no room. I just love the bruises and the fact that my shoulder was almost going through the wall I was leaning against. I really liked being screamed at because I had to make room for 2 more people even if I wasn't able to move a millimetre. And of course when they finally did squeeze in front of me I got some more very nice bruises and also thank you for twisting my wrist in ways I didn't even knew I could. It still hurts just like my shoulder. I bet I will have a very fun day tomorrow then I have to put pineapple slicers together I bet I will break the new slow record.

 

can't wait to meet you again

 

*steps down*

 

:naughty:

Arme schaap. You defo have no luck at Mika gigs

I hope you don't hurt too much.

[Starrats]

mika gigs are wonderful aren't they?

 

O yeah just love them

Especially the free gifts you get in the queue (strained wrists, bruises, knees you can't bend any more, shoulders that can't move without pain backs that hurt thank to the lovely queue squeezers)

 

I just want to say next time this tiger sees these frence people again she will EAT THEM ALIVE and I mean it.

[Ioana]

Let's put it this way:

 

Dusseldorf:

ticket: 30 euro

fuel: 10 euro

accomodation: 25 euro

 

TOTAL: 65 euro

 

 

Even better for me

 

Ticket: 35 euro

Fuel: 25 euro

 

and was lucky enough to stay at a friend's house...

 

I'm gonna assume it's obvious what the most expensive item was

[Ioana]

O yeah just love them

Especially the free gifts you get in the queue (strained wrists, bruises, knees you can't bend any more, shoulders that can't move without pain backs that hurt thank to the lovely queue squeezers)

 

I just want to say next time this tiger sees these frence people again she will EAT THEM ALIVE and I mean it.

 

I just got scratches,you hard core,I have to say

 

but it satisfies that masochistic pleasure doesn't it?

[Starrats]

:naughty:

Arme schaap. You defo have no luck at Mika gigs

I hope you don't hurt too much.

 

Well the the only reason I wanted to be there really early was because I can't stand long during a concert without something to lean on. I have weak knees, So I just try to be there early and get a front row spot, so i can lean on something.

 

When I was waiting for MIKA to come out at the end I had to put my knees together to be able to stand because I had no strength left in my ankles, knees ans hips, they where just dead And keeping my knees together kept me upright

[Niki27]

Well the the only reason I wanted to be there really early was because I can't stand long during a concert without something to lean on. I have weak knees, So I just try to be there early and get a front row spot, so i can lean on something.

 

When I was waiting for MIKA to come out at the end I had to put my knees together to be able to stand because I had no strength left in my ankles, knees ans hips, they where just dead And keeping my knees together kept me upright

 

oh I know how it's like, I have a weak ankle and besides the fact I always hurt it when I run, I also rather lean on sthg so that I can actually lift my leg from time to time to let my ankle to rest.

But well, obviously, being there early isn't always a guarantee

 

And easy on frence meat, it's hard to digest

[Gatagordinha]

Let's put it this way:

 

Dusseldorf:

ticket: 30 euro

fuel: 10 euro

accomodation: 25 euro

 

TOTAL: 65 euro

 

If the price of the ticket had been like it is for the best seated places in some arenas (over 80 euro if not more) that would have been almost twice the initial budget. So yes, it would have mattered.

 

Not everybody has the chance to live in the UK, nor to have Mika performing in their home country. And sometimes an increase in the price ticket can make a whole difference.

 

65 Euros for the whole trip? That's truly impressive. I'm not being sarcastic either (I felt I should be explicit about that).

 

I know it's possible to do things like this on a shoestring. I did it myself years ago as a student (but 65 Euros?? I couldn't even match that 20 years ago! ). If anyone knows how I can get travel and accommodation from Manchester to London for 35 Euros (£20) can they PM me please I may be lucky to live in the UK but that does not mean it is cheap to travel around to far away gigs in England, because it's not. Not everyone lives in London!

 

Seriously though I was thinking more of the people who fly over from abroad, which is very expensive unless they are somehow wangling free flights (again, PM me ).

 

But it's not for me to speculate on people's finances so I'm shutting up now and anyway these shouty threads scare me!

[Niki27]

65 Euros for the whole trip? That's truly impressive. I'm not being sarcastic either (I felt I should be explicit about that).

 

I know it's possible to do things like this on a shoestring. I did it myself years ago as a student (but 65 Euros?? I couldn't even match that 20 years ago! ). If anyone knows how I can get travel and accommodation from Manchester to London for 35 Euros (£20) can they PM me please I may be lucky to live in the UK but that does not mean it is cheap to travel around to far away gigs in England, because it's not. Not everyone lives in London!

 

Seriously though I was thinking more of the people who fly over from abroad, which is very expensive unless they are somehow wangling free flights (again, PM me ).

 

But it's not for me to speculate on people's finances so I'm shutting up now and anyway these shouty threads scare me!

 

Well it was cheap because crappy:

I slept on the floor in an overcrowded ****ty motel, and I shared my one-person matras with one of the girls there who had none to boot.

We were 3 in my car which allowed us to share the costs but that also meant I had to drive for hours although I was totally knackered on the way back, and that my feet legs and back were killing me.

 

So you see, when you agree to sleep on the floor in order not to spend a couple of euros you don't have, an increase in the price of the ticket aint welcome

[AKateisaKate]

Something has to change. More and more people are getting hurt lately (The whole thing in NY with Lollipop, too) and that in no way should happen. If we have to compromoise, it might displease the tastes of some, but then again, it's really displeasing for the people who are physically uneasy because of the situation.

[kjoshi]

So I'm going to come out with a sappy comment

I just wanted to say how nice it was that even though people had disagreements and a difference of an opinion it all worked out in the end. At least there's not really any hard feelings. It's just nice to know we love keeping the peace and can work it out amongst ourselves!

[Blue Sky]

I am an outsider in this whole conversation, but reading through, emotions are running high for a good reason.

 

Manners.

 

Use them.

 

Honestly.

 

If you get privileges like pre-entry for being disabled, don't abuse the privilege and then expect everyone to feel sorry for you. Don't post so self-righteously about your disabilities when you know quite well that other fans have queued all day, and just as they can't know details of your health, neither can you know details about them, what country they flew in from, whether they threw up last night, how many cancellations they suffered and whether they have cramps and sore feet.

 

So you could in fact consider small things like taking a front spot one night and a side spot another and wearing appropriate footwear.

 

Everyone at every concert would like to be front row centre. It is our selfish human nature. But in the end you get a reputation on MFC, whether you think you deserve it or not.

 

I don't know you, haven't had the pleasure of meeting any of you or attending concerts with you, I just sit here at my desk in Tokyo and live vicariously through your reports, but honestly, I have read reports like this on and off for an entire year, it wears a bit thin for all of us.

 

Self-reflection should replace a little of this self-righteousness.

 

 

The numbers thing, is that really working?

 

I don't think we should expect anything from the venues, really.

 

The venues in Tokyo do take action on this. When you buy your general admission ticket you get let in according to the number on the ticket, which means it doesn't matter whether you get there seven hours before or seven minutes before.

 

It makes a difference to who gets the front row of course, but after that, the people who push and shove the hardest eventually are the ones who get themselves into better positions.

 

I would go for seating any day.

[HollyD]

Wow! This really is an awesome and IMPORTANT thread! My eye balls are about to pop out of my head

 

I just want to say - EVERYONE thought I was C-R-A-Z-Y for getting to the venue at 5 AM. But, I wanted to avoid all of the BS and MAKE SURE that I got where I wanted to be. I was a crazy screaming fan....but, I did not push, shove or skip anyone to get there. I was the second person inside the venue and I got there....not by being shady - BUT, by SUFFERING for 14 HOURS in the bitter cold. I am glad that I got to experience being in the front/center

NOW I had it.... and could deal with seated venues for SO MANY reasons. I would be happy JUST being there. And I have to say - how nice would it be to just walk into the venue an hour/half an hour before the show, and walk directly to YOUR seat! It would help situations I think!

 

....I just want to take a second and SINCERELY THANK:

Alex, Jess, Lucy, Jackie, Erin, Aimee, Ada, Rachel, Liam, Neil and *those other two girls....sorry I don't know your names, 'you KNOW who you are'*

For BEING SO AWESOME! We came and went as we wanted/needed and everyone was SO good about staying in order. YOU GUYS ROCK - and you made the most uncomfortable time, the best experience of my life. That day we REALLY represented the MFC well. We all came together - worked together and had an experience in the line-up that MOST people never experience. The Front of the line was GREAT! WHAT happened after we got in, I don't know.....BUT there were people AS WE ALL KNOW in the front row that I HADN'T SEEN ALL DAY..... and someone that was like 7th in line ENDED UP ON THE SECOND ROW!~ It is frustrating! To be so dedicated and then have others just run all over you......I CAN'T BELEIVE THERE WASN'T A FIGHT! Duing Lollipop I beat the **** out of this girl who kept trying to jump on my head to get on stage! I KNOW if I had bruises SHE DID!

 

Some people have ALOT of pride and take the MFC very seriously..... then as we all have seen in the past two months there are those who could care less and are ONLY here for all the wrong reasons!

[I <3 MIKA!!!]

i have a ? what exactly is this thread lol:naughty:

[mandilambi]

I find all of this a tad confusing and I am assuming that some of these things happened over a period of time and that emotions ran high at the last concert.... I dunno...I am quite out of the loop. :-S

[JackViolet]

I just want to say - EVERYONE thought I was C-R-A-Z-Y for getting to the venue at 5 AM. But, I wanted to avoid all of the BS and MAKE SURE that I got where I wanted to be. I was a crazy screaming fan....but, I did not push, shove or skip anyone to get there. I was the second person inside the venue and I got there....not by being shady - BUT, by SUFFERING for 14 HOURS in the bitter cold.

 

*thinks about what would have happened if Holly hadn't been able to get front row after all that*

 

*cowers*

 

Hah. People were actually quite nice in NY about that. Sure, there was some queue jumping at the last moment, but MFCers tended to stick to their spots... and when I left to get some coffee before 6 pm, people were nice enough to help me with the security so that they allowed me to get inside the barriers. I want to say that I understand Caz's story about not being able to move though, because I tried to make my way to stand next to Deb (my original spot) and instead kept being pushed away to the opposite side by the sheer mass of people inside the barriers.

 

But anyway.

 

I definitely think that people with disabilities (visible or not!) should not be forced to queue and I do think they should have the option of going in early so as to escape the mad rush that sometimes happens (although isn't it security's job to prevent that?). They should also be allowed a place where they can hear and see what's going on without being hampered by their handicap.

 

But at the same time I do not think this all means a right to first row.

 

Something that Mikafish said in the Hammersmith thread really struck me:

 

Everybody has the right to fully enjoy a gig and that means some people have to be given allowances to be on the same footing as "normal" people, so to speak.

 

This is very, very true, and this is why accommodations and "special treatment" for disabilities have to be made.

 

However, the thing is that a front-row spot is not "the same footing as "normal" people." Most normal people do not get first row, or else this wouldn't be such a volatile discussion. In order to get first row, most "normal" people take a day off work, foregoing either pay or vacation time, and then spend the entire day out in the cold (or rain, or heat), also risking the possibility of getting sick, dehydrated, overtired, etc. And this is not even considering those who travel from across the country or other countries in addition to all that. The amount of effort that people put forth to get a front row spot is extraordinary rather than "normal," and unless your medical condition specifically necessitates that you HAVE to be in the front row and nowhere else (like Mikafish), I do not think it automatically entitles you to it.

 

Two questions, btw:

 

1) If the main problem with queuing is inability to stand for long periods of time, why not bring fold-out chairs to sit in? I've seen people do that before, it seems to work fairly well.

 

2) I'm just curious: considering all the pushing and occasional violence that goes along with front-row spots, as well as the inability to move, isn't it really dangerous for a person with a moving disability to be there anyway? I would be terrified that if I started to feel unwell I wouldn't be able to get to an exit quickly. When I don't feel well I usually try to stand a little bit back so that I can have some more air and space. Just wondering about this, sorry if it doesn't have much to do with the topic itself.

 

--Jack

[Suzy]

I am really sorry for how things turned out in the last gig.

I feel for those who queued early and didn't get front row.

I feel for those who had legitimate numbers and found themselves behind groups of people who squished their way in.

Agree with many points Blue Sky made earlier.

I am also with Holly D about not having to go through this crap and instead, focus all my energy in trying to be first in line. (Although I know many cannot manage this, I can - and will continue to do this when possible to avoid all this chaos.)

 

When I am not first in line:

 

(1)- I politely make my point to the people in front of me that I don't expect others to be lining up with them or ask them if there are others with them who have left for the toilets or food. Then it is crystal clear that there is to be not letting in.

 

(2)- I make sure to be friendly to the people behind me in line also, because I need them to remember and be familiar with my face and that I am the person in front of them, should I need to use the toilet or get food (this has helped me tremendously before).

 

(3)- I don't think the number system is working anymore - not in London anyway.

 

(4)- I will now consider taking a photo of myself (this has helped Sivan and Summer tremendously before) and of the people who are in line around me so there is evidence.

 

(5) - will continue to chat with security and be friendly so that if there is a concern later, they will remember that I am actually a nice, sane person who now has some issues that may require their assistance (and hopefully they'll care - this has helped me tremendously before).

[AKateisaKate]

I do think some of the craziness and hysteria of all our wants do obviously provide for an "Every man for himself" sort of thing, but I don't necessarily think that's how it has to be. Or should be, IMO.

 

Perhaps it doesn't have to be the most logical/ sensible way?

 

I don't know exactly where I want to go next with that idea, so I'll just stop here, post, and wait on it. I know it's very general...

[Suzy]

1) If the main problem with queuing is inability to stand for long periods of time, why not bring fold-out chairs to sit in? I've seen people do that before, it seems to work fairly well.

 

 

--Jack

Yes. This works tremendously well. I brought $5 camping chairs from Wal-Mart that I could afford to discard and not take into the venue if I needed to resort to that. In London, Christine and I bought foam floor mats (used for exercising) to keep us comfortably seated on the ground.

[AKateisaKate]

Yes. This works tremendously well. I brought $5 camping chairs from Wal-Mart that I could afford to discard and not take into the venue if I needed to resort to that. In London, Christine and I bought foam floor mats (used for excercising) to keep us comfortably seated on the ground.

 

Yoga mats are fabulous. I'm a bit of a yoga junkie, though.

[JackViolet]

Yes. This works tremendously well. I brought $5 camping chairs from Wal-Mart that I could afford to discard and not take into the venue if I needed to resort to that. In London, Christine and I bought foam floor mats (used for exercising) to keep us comfortably seated on the ground.

 

In the case of people with disabilities, Daisy said she had arranged to be let in early with the venue. I think in this case, it can also be arranged for the security to store the folding chairs somewhere, or else (since I do agree that people with handicaps might be allowed to go in early to escape the dangerous rush) the chairs can be put away somewhere in the time between being let in early and having the rest of the queue let in.

 

--Jack

[mariposa]

Yep that was my post about the numbers thing. I think Mariposa (is that her name was doing the numbers). I got there about 11.30 I think. It wasn't till about 1.00pm that I got given a number. Don't know how many people arrived inbetween, not many thankfully but It's not the point. The thing that got me was she didn't even want to give me a number. She had to check with someone else. Sorry If It's a queue it's a queue for everyone. Numbers don't work anyway. When we were in the barriers bit - I was trying to keep my place - she'd finally given me a number of about 33 I think it was. Some people who'd been out of the queue demanded to be let in where I was saying "Oh we're numbered" - they were about 40 ish number wise. They just shoved me out of the way.

 

Gigs are always like this though - Queueing only ever works to a degree. Do you know why I queue early. It's because I am a big girl and I can't run very fast. I always go on my own to gigs. Have never ever gone to a gig since I was 16 with someone. It's difficult to keep places in queues when your on your own. It's even worse once the doors open. Everyone is quicker than me. Fair do's. But the reason I go and queue for 7-10 hours is I'll always be guarenteed a place somewhere at the barrier. Never centre place. I've even been first in a queue and never ever got centre place. It does upset me sometimes but I can't do anything about it.

 

Except always keep trying to queue.

 

I was happy where I got - In front of Mikey. And I loved the gig. Would be amazing to be centre sometimes, but never gonna happen for me, and I've resigned myself to this years ago.

 

Some of the first people in line who had started given out numbers had left (for the next toilet or whatever) and I agreed to replace them. When you came up asking me for a number I was only asking someone what the previous number we had given was because it wasn't me who had given out this number.

 

Basically I think the numbering thing is a good idea although it isn't and will never be a guarantee to really end up front row in the end. There will always be some people who try to jump the queue, and no one can really stop them. This system is great, as long as there are not too many people lining up. At some point it is impossible to know what number is next because people arrive at the same time and numbers are given at the same time (so there are double numbers). So it can only be seen as a rough lining up.

I also agree with Cazgirl. People can't be forced to get a number. Or if they didn't know about numbers being given they are missed out which is of course not fair.

 

Yes there is: BEHAVE.

It's sad to get to the point we have to find systems to avoid problems.

We're all adults and, moreover, we're a group!!

We shouldn't even have witnessed things like that. It's very sad

 

I agree with you Niki, but unfortunatelly we are not living in a world where everyone acts according to what is right according to common law. There will always be people who break the rule. And this is a problem which we can't possibly face on our own.

 

I think the venues should do sth about it (which they probably don't...I mean they don't really care WHO is front row, don't they?)

 

I really don't know if there will be any solution soon...but various ticket prices are not really fair I reckon.

 

 

 

Hah. People were actually quite nice in NY about that. Sure, there was some queue jumping at the last moment, but MFCers tended to stick to their spots... and when I left to get some coffee before 6 pm, people were nice enough to help me with the security so that they allowed me to get inside the barriers. I want to say that I understand Caz's story about not being able to move though, because I tried to make my way to stand next to Deb (my original spot) and instead kept being pushed away to the opposite side by the sheer mass of people inside the barriers.

 

But anyway.

 

I definitely think that people with disabilities (visible or not!) should not be forced to queue and I do think they should have the option of going in early so as to escape the mad rush that sometimes happens (although isn't it security's job to prevent that?). They should also be allowed a place where they can hear and see what's going on without being hampered by their handicap.

 

But at the same time I do not think this all means a right to first row.

 

Something that Mikafish said in the Hammersmith thread really struck me:

 

 

 

This is very, very true, and this is why accommodations and "special treatment" for disabilities have to be made.

 

However, the thing is that a front-row spot is not "the same footing as "normal" people." Most normal people do not get first row, or else this wouldn't be such a volatile discussion. In order to get first row, most "normal" people take a day off work, foregoing either pay or vacation time, and then spend the entire day out in the cold (or rain, or heat), also risking the possibility of getting sick, dehydrated, overtired, etc. And this is not even considering those who travel from across the country or other countries in addition to all that. The amount of effort that people put forth to get a front row spot is extraordinary rather than "normal," and unless your medical condition specifically necessitates that you HAVE to be in the front row and nowhere else (like Mikafish), I do not think it automatically entitles you to it.

 

Two questions, btw:

 

1) If the main problem with queuing is inability to stand for long periods of time, why not bring fold-out chairs to sit in? I've seen people do that before, it seems to work fairly well.

 

2) I'm just curious: considering all the pushing and occasional violence that goes along with front-row spots, as well as the inability to move, isn't it really dangerous for a person with a moving disability to be there anyway? I would be terrified that if I started to feel unwell I wouldn't be able to get to an exit quickly. When I don't feel well I usually try to stand a little bit back so that I can have some more air and space. Just wondering about this, sorry if it doesn't have much to do with the topic itself.

 

--Jack

 

I just wanted to quote you becasue it's well said as always.

[elanorelle]

can you explain this #'s thing??? we never had that problem! the line in Seattle was ideal! and Vancouver was beautiful! how come there are so many problems in the UK and few problems in North America? just wondering!

[lollipopgirl83]

can you explain this #'s thing??? we never had that problem! the line in Seattle was ideal! and Vancouver was beautiful! how come there are so many problems in the UK and few problems in North America? just wondering!

 

Yeah, the queue in LA was fine...although when they decided to take tickets early, some of our group was out and about and the venue staff almost made them go to the back of the line. But after hanging there for over seven hours, we couldn't let that happen. Luckily we showed them pictures of them with us earlier that day to prove they had been there. The staff were kind enough to let them back to the front with us...

[babspanky]

I am an outsider in this whole conversation, but reading through, emotions are running high for a good reason.

 

Manners.

 

Use them.

 

Honestly.

 

If you get privileges like pre-entry for being disabled, don't abuse the privilege and then expect everyone to feel sorry for you. Don't post so self-righteously about your disabilities when you know quite well that other fans have queued all day, and just as they can't know details of your health, neither can you know details about them, what country they flew in from, whether they threw up last night, how many cancellations they suffered and whether they have cramps and sore feet.

 

So you could in fact consider small things like taking a front spot one night and a side spot another and wearing appropriate footwear.

 

Everyone at every concert would like to be front row centre. It is our selfish human nature. But in the end you get a reputation on MFC, whether you think you deserve it or not.

 

I don't know you, haven't had the pleasure of meeting any of you or attending concerts with you, I just sit here at my desk in Tokyo and live vicariously through your reports, but honestly, I have read reports like this on and off for an entire year, it wears a bit thin for all of us.

 

Self-reflection should replace a little of this self-righteousness.

 

.

 

Wise words. A little self reflection doesn't do any of us any harm. Of course you still have to be honest with yourself.