Thoughts on the Songs for Sorrow EP?

[babspanky]

Don't forget we are talking about record company people with special ideas on how to make money and promote music.

Maybe they thought that due to the bigger demand than predicted for the download, they should put a smaller price tag to it so that even more people will download it and it might eventually end up on the charts. So with this move they might be trying to generate more demand as opposed to previous thoughts when this project was not really taken seriously....

But I don't know, I'm not one of them with twisted ideas.

 

Now at least that suggestion does make a bit of sense to me.

[harlequeen]

Oh BS. I can't believe this. After seeing your picture, all I can imagine is that Lady Jane is not a fish, but a prawn

He should really change the lyrics to "Lady Jane, the river prawn..." Doesn't the song sound better already? I think so .

 

I don't get the aversions against fish! Is it just that every proud MFCler is convinced that there's only one proper animal that should be featured in a Mika-song: :chkn:??

[achtungbaby!]

I´d like to download the digital version of the book ... somebody knows how to do that?

thanks!

[babspanky]

I´d like to download the digital version of the book ... somebody knows how to do that?

thanks!

 

I think it comes with the rest of the ep, three tracks and the book?

I didn't download it myself though, but it was there to download.

[dcdeb]

I´d like to download the digital version of the book ... somebody knows how to do that?

thanks!

 

http://www.easyflip.co.uk/mikabooklet/enter.html

 

It's not the full book that you'll get when you buy the physical EP, it's

just a sampling of pages.

 

EDIT: I just realized I passed my 9000th post! Didn't think I'd ever get that far!

[babspanky]

http://www.easyflip.co.uk/mikabooklet/enter.html

 

It's not the full book that you'll get when you buy the physical EP, it's

just a sampling of pages.

 

EDIT: I just realized I passed my 9000th post! Didn't think I'd ever get that far!

 

Haha thanks for that deb I didn't download. What a bad fan haha.

[iadoremika]

EDIT: I just realized I passed my 9000th post! Didn't think I'd ever get that far!

*pops in*

*throw glitter in air*

Congratulations DEB!

 

 

*leaves quietly*

[dcdeb]

Haha thanks for that deb I didn't download. What a bad fan haha.

 

Indeed.

 

I only did for research purposes. Which is why I preordered the download,

too. I'm not obsessed at all. At ALL.

 

*pops in*

*throw glitter in air*

Congratulations DEB!

 

 

*leaves quietly*

 

 

Thanks! I always miss these momentous occasions! What was I thinking???

[babspanky]

Indeed.

 

I only did for research purposes. Which is why I preordered the download,

too. I'm not obsessed at all. At ALL.

 

 

 

 

Thanks! I always miss these momentous occasions! What was I thinking???

 

Well I downloaded the music but not the booklet thingy. Art's not my thang.

Edit: some of the music wasn't my thang either

[iadoremika]

 

Thanks! I always miss these momentous occasions! What was I thinking???

You're welcome. I think you forgot because you're bust keeping us in line.

[babspanky]

Both these issues are a matter of server size.

 

Servers come in different sizes. A server that can handle the traffic for a multi-million selling number 1 hit costs a lot more than a server the size of the one that is hosting Mika's website, which crashed when the tour dates were announced. That means that it probably would have crashed if the digital EP had been put on sale at the same time that it was released because everybody would have rushed to buy it at the same time.

 

Since it was on pre-order, a lot of people felt more comfortable to wait a few hours or a few days, which means that the server had a more managable flow of traffic and less chance of crashing.

 

Also, since the record company knew how many people would be likely to rush to download it the minute of release, they were able to have the appropriate tech staff on hand to deal with any issues.

 

Tech people don't generally sit around servers waiting for them to crash, which is why it takes time to get issues dealt with. Phone calls have to made. Sometimes, people have to travel to get to the physical location of the server. That all takes time. That's time that customers are sitting at their computers wondering why they can't log in or why they can't download their new toy.

 

So, if a company knows when a server is likely to get a metric ton of traffic, they know it's worth the money to pay extra to have the tech staff sitting around the server so that they can deal with any problems that may arise.

 

Now, the price difference in single CD copies versus bulk CD copies is a matter of manufacturing costs. A big company, set up to print massive orders of CDs won't even accept orders of smaller quanities of CDs because it isn't cost effective to take the time to set up the machines to print the order. A smaller company set up to deal with smaller orders is going to charge more for smaller orders than larger orders because it takes more time to set things up for several small orders than it does for one large order.

 

It's cheaper to buy in bulk because you can set a machine once, let it run all day making that one thing, and don't have to pay for the time and materials to reset the machine. Each time the machine has be reset to make something else, it costs time and money. because that time is spent resetting the machine rather than making product that will generate profit.

 

That probably still doesn't make sense, but it doesn't really need to unless you work in the industry.

 

I only know so much because I have a degree in Network Administration and I worked as a manager/graphic designer for a small publishing company, so servers and physical copies of media have been a huge part of my life, not to mention my interest in how other companies work and how this stuff scales from small companies up through to huge companies.

 

It's all about keeping the machines running smoothly so that you can have what you want as close to the instant that you want it as humanly possible. It's all about trying to keep people instantly gratified, even though all they do is whine about how they don't have something NOW NOW NOW!

 

I am sure there is a point somewhere in there.

[Christine]

Both these issues are a matter of server size.

 

It is simply a marketing ploy. If you're being generous you will say it is for the convenience of people like Soaring Simpson who prefer to make an all-in-one purchase.

 

If you're a cynic you will say it's to grab people on an impulse buy while they are so excited about getting their EP on June 8th that they decide they don't want to wait that long to download tracks that they've already purchased.

 

Or perhaps it's somewhere in the middle and they were trying to decide on a price point for the general public by seeing how much and how many Mikasounds members were willing to pay for 3 digital tracks.

[babspanky]

Oh, so you're willfully ignorant rather than simply not getting it because I was using too much jargon previously. In that case, I will stop wasting my time since you obviously didn't waste any of yours.

 

Cool. But I'm sorry you thought I didn't get it because you were using too much jargon. Contrary to popular belief I do have a brain. I just don't agree with what you are saying, no matter how you dress it up.

[Christine]

Oh, so you're willfully ignorant rather than simply not getting it because I was using too much jargon previously. In that case, I will stop wasting my time since you obviously didn't waste any of yours.

 

I'm not sure that "servers come in different sizes" is too much technical jargon for anyone, even the willfully ignorant. Whether you meant it to sound so or not, it comes across as condescending.

 

If you hate the music so much, don't waste your money. If you like it, then stop whining about how much it cost you and demanding an explanation when you are just going to dismiss every explanation offered as "Yeah, but we're still getting ripped off." If you feel ripped off, don't waste your money and stop wasting my time.

 

How exactly have I wasted your time? I did not ask you for any explanations or to ease the frustrations you seem to imagine I'm having.

 

If you actually read my posts instead of arguing against a strawman you would see that I have never once complained about being ripped off and in fact have made several lengthy posts to the contrary.

[silver]

I'm with the marketing ploy theory

 

Record companies have servers that can certainly cope with the demand for the numbers of people who will download the Mika EP. They coped with Grace Kelly, for goodness sake.

[zoots14]

Just throwing in my two cents here and then I'll stay out of it... this thread seems to have a lot of what's coming across as condescending arguments & lengthy pontificating just for the sake of one-upping, and it's starting to feel kind of uncomfortable. By all means continue - I'm not asking anyone to stop - I just didn't know if people realize that it's getting a bit tiresome, so I thought I'd put it out there.

 

Yes, I know I can just go read a different thread, and I'm also all for people speaking their thoughts (I'm not at all afraid of a little conflict or hearing different opinions), but when it starts sounding more like personal & targeted bickering it gets a little tedious for the rest of us.

Edited May 19, 2009 by zoots14

[zoots14]

So anyway, on a lighter note...! Question for everyone: If you could have picked one or two of his "other" songs to be on this EP - songs that we've heard on YouTube but that he has not officialy recorded - which would they be?

 

For me:

- Sally

- I've Got Life

- Same Jeans

- HMDYLM

 

All of these would obviously not fit the theme of this EP, but these are what I would choose for a pre- second album EP if I had my way.

 

PS - for some reason I feel like maybe Same Jeans was released as a bonus track for a previous EP? Dunno... I only bought LICM.

[JackViolet]

See, I prefer the fable quality of Lady Jane to the words of Blue Eyes which make no sense to me, but I do like the rhythm and music of Blue Eyes. Lady Jane and Lonely Alcoholic are quite Nilsson-ish as I have said before.

 

Well I certainly don't think Lady Jane's lyrics are awful because they have a fable quality. I love fables! I think they are awful because they often don't make any sense, don't follow from one point to another, don't really tell a coherent story (and fables tend to be very coherent, albeit with their own logic), and have some really eye-rolling word combinations.

 

Mind you, I'm a fan of Marc Bolan's lyrics, and those are often called "nonsense," but they're a very different type of nonsense.

 

"Lady Jane did not abort"???? Ok, I get he was trying to rhyme, but gawd, that's awful. Abort what? "A man to show"... what? "Eager just to let him know"... what? I know what he's trying to get at, but he's twisting the laws of grammar all over, and it's painful and stilted.

 

I don't get why she had to cut off her feet to become a fish. Makes no sense, and the image of a woman with her legs cut off at the ankles is both unpleasant and not at all reminiscent of a fish.

 

Also, technically, I don't follow why she had to show a man she could walk on water and why her life was so awful without a fella, but ok, that's more of a feminist problem than anything else.

 

But all of that is nothing before the illogic of the following stanza. No man would dare to catch her, but when "some member of a faraway state" (and that's clumsy, ugly phrasing again) commands it, suddenly it's no problem at all? Besides that, "member of a faraway state" makes me think of an anthropomorphic penis or something, since we just said "no man" dared to do this (and I'm interpreting "man" as "human" rather than "strictly a male"), and I doubt that was the intention.

 

But again, if the emperor is "the only man" who could be so uncouth as to want Lady Jane, who the hell killed her? "Though you think you've got your prize/There's another fish that has escaped your eyes" is horrible-sounding as well, and moreover makes no sense in context AGAIN. The emperor wanted to eat Lady Jane because she was such a famous fish. He got that; there's no other "prize" that escaped his eyes, because he a) certainly didn't care for Lady Jane's non fishy qualities, b) didn't care for her lover either. I don't care if this is all supposed to have a deeper meaning, if you're going to tell a metaphorical story, it needs to either be entirely figurative (and this is not), or it needs to make some basic sense on the literal level (and this does not).

 

Finally, wtf, now Lady Jane's lover (who drowned so shouldn't be alive anyway, according to the lyrics it was only Lady Jane who "thought" he became a creature of the sea) is looking for her? Why??? He didn't seem to want her before she was eaten, as "she never stopped looking" thus apparently she didn't find him.

 

The whole thing is a huge mess.

 

So anyway, on a lighter note...! Question for everyone: If you could have picked one or two of his "other" songs to be on this EP - songs that we've heard on YouTube but that he has not officialy recorded - which would they be?

 

For me:

- Sally

- I've Got Life

- Same Jeans

- HMDYLM

 

All of these would obviously not fit the theme of this EP, but these are what I would choose for a pre- second album EP if I had my way.

 

Oooooh! Sally, easily! And I think it would fit with the theme, easy.

 

--Jack

Edited May 19, 2009 by JackViolet

[JackViolet]

Btw, just looking at the booklet now... I've had this problem with LiCM's lyrics too, but seriously!! WHY can't Mika get someone to proofread his damn lyrics and tell him the difference between "you're and "your"? He's got the money! He can spell things however he wants on his blog, but you'd think he'd have someone look things over for publication. It's embarassing to look at.

 

--Jack

[zoots14]

 

Oooooh! Sally, easily! And I think it would fit with the theme, easy.

 

--Jack

 

Yeah you're right - Sally would fit! And next to I've Got Life that's easily my favourite... wish he would do more like that.

[lollipop_monkey]

Servers come in different sizes. A server that can handle the traffic for a multi-million selling number 1 hit costs a lot more than a server the size of the one that is hosting Mika's website, which crashed when the tour dates were announced. That means that it probably would have crashed if the digital EP had been put on sale at the same time that it was released because everybody would have rushed to buy it at the same time.

 

That's not entirely relevant in this case.

 

I'm not sure if you noticed, but it was Mikasounds that crashed - the third party site that provided the ticket sales and EP presales was online all but for a couple minutes right after the tickets went on sale. So it has nothing to do with the server that hosts Mikasounds.

 

Also, since the record company knew how many people would be likely to rush to download it the minute of release, they were able to have the appropriate tech staff on hand to deal with any issues.

 

Not entirely true either. I don't believe they actually were aware of what the demand would be. Otherwise, the record label - which oversees Mikasounds - would have considered that when choosing the specs for the Mikasounds server to begin with.

 

Secondly, they shouldn't have taken the site live and then directed a tonne of traffic to it right off the bat, either. They really missed the boat in terms of anticipating traffic levels and comparing that to server capabilities.

 

I don't believe for a second that the presale had anything to do with staggering server traffic. I agree that it was a marketing ploy.

 

That said, in terms of the price change, Mika's people changed service providers for the EP download at the 11th hour. I believe they discovered their original provider had issues in supplying the download to fans outside the UK. Chances are the new provider offered slightly better service fees, and Mika and his people took the noble step of passing those fee reductions onto the consumer.

 

I don't get why she had to cut off her feet to become a fish. Makes no sense, and the image of a woman with her legs cut off at the ankles is both unpleasant and not at all reminiscent of a fish.

 

Because Lady Jane had no choice but to walk on water; as in, she had enchanted feet that simply wouldn't allow her to go below the surface. So when her "fella" fell down into the water, the only way for her to follow him was to hack off these "enchanted" feet that kept her on the surface.

 

Btw, just looking at the booklet now... I've had this problem with LiCM's lyrics too, but seriously!! WHY can't Mika get someone to proofread his damn lyrics and tell him the difference between "you're and "your"? He's got the money! He can spell things however he wants on his blog, but you'd think he'd have someone look things over for publication. It's embarassing to look at.

 

--Jack

 

Don't even get me started. There are grammar issues like the one you mentioned, typos, and there are also blatant inaccuracies in the lyrics. I'm hoping the physical version has been proofed, but frankly I'm not getting my hopes up.

[dcdeb]

Well I certainly don't think Lady Jane's lyrics are awful because they have a fable quality. I love fables! I think they are awful because they often don't make any sense, don't follow from one point to another, don't really tell a coherent story (and fables tend to be very coherent, albeit with their own logic), and have some really eye-rolling word combinations.

 

<snip only for brevity>

 

The whole thing is a huge mess.

 

Thanks, Jack. Have I mentioned that I missed you?

 

 

Btw, just looking at the booklet now... I've had this problem with LiCM's lyrics too, but seriously!! WHY can't Mika get someone to proofread his damn lyrics and tell him the difference between "you're and "your"? He's got the money! He can spell things however he wants on his blog, but you'd think he'd have someone look things over for publication. It's embarrassing to look at.

 

--Jack

 

You missed this thread, I think:

 

http://www.mikafanclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18505

 

[JackViolet]

Because Lady Jane had no choice but to walk on water; as in, she had enchanted feet that simply wouldn't allow her to go below the surface. So when her "fella" fell down into the water, the only way for her to follow him was to hack off these "enchanted" feet that kept her on the surface.

 

That would actually make sense. Too bad it would have needed to be explained then.

 

She didn't abort the story, as implied by "legends were never made that short."

 

Uh, I'm not an idiot. I know. I just mean that grammatically, one would need a direct object to follow that. Moreover, that is not at all the normal usage for the verb "abort." We do not say "abort a story"--that itself makes the sentence stilted and awkward. (We do say "abort a mission" and such, but still "did not abort" is horrible, horrible usage.)

 

"She never had a man to show" means she was single, as indicated by "Then one day she found a fella."

 

Again, I'm not incapable of reading comprehension, and I did say I understood what he was getting at.

 

No more painful or stilted than any other poetry/fable. It just isn't as linear and complete as our modern ears are used to.

 

I don't know what poetry or fables you've been reading; most of the ones I read and teach are quite lovely and flowing, modern ears or not.

 

It's a reference to a legend about a mermaid who had earned herself a pair of legs and could only return to the sea if she cut off her feet so that her legs would grow back together as a tail. I'm not sure if that was an unedited version of the Hans Christen Anderson fable or a different story with a similar theme. I remember it because I thought it was deeply interesting and moving.

 

That's great that it's a reference, it would be even better if it made sense in the context of the story he provided. Are you sure about this legend, however? In Hans Christian Anderson's story, the mermaid had her tail cut in half to become legs, and then her feet felt like they were being stabbed with knives each time she took a step, but there was no cutting off of feet. And I've never heard of any variant of that story except for Paracelsus' Ondines.

 

 

Try "she didn't have a man to show for it." She was special and could something amazing, but she had no love to show for how awesome she was. It's common practice to truncate familiar phrases like that if the context makes the meaning clear because the listener can infer the full phrase.

 

Funny, this hardly makes the meaning clear: the way it is, it's confusing whether she didn't have "a man to show [for it]" or "a man to show [her talent to]." I would not say this is a successful shortening at all.

 

Poetry tends to take more liberties with grammar in order to produce more subtle shades of meaning than are possible in prose (which is why so many people hate poetry.)

 

Good poetry doesn't sound as awkward as this does, and "subtle shades of meaning" does not mean "confusing tripe." One can't just wave away all of this songs' faults with "it's poetry!" That's actually one of my major peeves when I have to edit student poetry, that they think anything goes just because it's not prose.

 

The most general theme of the song is that relationships are hard, messy, often unrequited, and complicated by the actions and opinions of other people, especially if the people involved are exceptional/unconventional in some way. Part of that is conveyed in the way that language is used.

 

Really? I would think a number of people would say it's about something else entirely.

 

--Jack

Edited May 19, 2009 by JackViolet

[JackViolet]

Thanks, Jack. Have I mentioned that I missed you?

 

Aww, I've missed you too!

 

You missed this thread, I think:

 

http://www.mikafanclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18505

 

 

Oooooh, I did. You all make me proud. :-P

 

--Jack

[JackViolet]

I didn't say that, but considering my initial post did say that I "understood what Mika was getting at," I didn't really need to have everything explained to me as though I were a child.

 

And yes, it's possible to find sense in most things if you stretch and bend enough. I'm just saying that having to do that in the first place is the mark of a badly-written work. Well-constructed poetry/stories/etc provide additional layers of meaning upon further and more in-depth examination, but they should not be messy nonsense at first glance.

 

--Jack

 

P.S. I'm not even saying there was no sense in the lyrics--I'm sure it all made sense in Mika's head, and yes, with some work one can figure out what he was going for. But I am saying he did a shoddy job of conveying it.