Mika's Dad

[Christine]

You can't catch me like that- I've read the FAQs so know what an apple is

 

There are apples in the FAQ? Damn I should read that shizz once in awhile.

[FREDDIESDOUBLE]

There are apples in the FAQ? Damn I should read that shizz once in awhile.

 

Have we got the apple description in the FAQs ??

 

:roftl:

[Soaring Simpson]

Redcar .. the boros seaside ..plleaseeeeeeeeeeeee:roftl::roftl:

 

OK, my luck's run out- I'm back to not understanding. Is Sunderland staking a claim?

[sienna]

OK, my luck's run out- I'm back to not understanding. Is Sunderland staking a claim?

 

You're not the only one!

 

Maybe we should ask him in his teaching English tread!

[FREDDIESDOUBLE]

OK, my luck's run out- I'm back to not understanding. Is Sunderland staking a claim?

 

Its better than Redcar huh?? uppsss better not get into this North easterness .. will just confuse everyone , Sunderland is a beatiful costal town:wub2:

 

You're not the only one!

 

Maybe we should ask him in his teaching English tread!

 

What have I said now

[Hele_Noor]

I hate my computer I was was sending the post when it decided to make a restart while I was getting my coffee. And I had to start again and it's not easy at all as words must be chosen very carefully otherwise you'd be in .. jungle.

This was a predictable response to a new member who has repeatedly made condescending comments to existing members and makes arguments based on erroneous "facts". Everything from telling native English speakers that they can't understand her posts because their English comprehension skills are lacking to claiming that she's found one of Mika's new songs on the internet, when in fact it was a song by another artist.

I'm afraid we are speaking about different things. I was summarising up the posts to which I replied as they were patronising and referred to another thread which I had read weeks ago while you are obviously talking about the issue of that miserable song that had been uploaded in YT as Mika's new song.

However I think that your reaction to the poor girl was a bit harsh and you got quickly support. (Was it a A,B,C thingy? ) Hopefully it was not meant to be hard and it just seemed so as we are writing not speaking to each other here and it may cause misunderstandings.

 

That doesn't mean there is some systemic problem within MFC where newbies are regularly treated with contempt and without provocation by the so-called upper class.

I have never said that there is systemic problem within MFC where newbies are regularly treated with contempt, I can't recall saying that there are lower class and upper class in MFC.

But I have noticed that there are someones who are stressing - in their tiny lightly way - some aspects that probably made other people feel like they were being disadvantaged or belonging in a lower class. I find it's ridiculous from both sides and very high-school as someone fittingly said early on. All this is not my cup of tea.

I am certainly not in a upper class as my only connection to Mika is 9 albums/singles of his that I have bought +1 that is on a waiting list and I doubt whether that argument is tough enough to belong to club and on the other side as I have never ever felt being trashed by anyone as most times I have got what I wanted and I had enough luck to meet nice people everywhere I was going (would it be to go to a college and then university, or start with the new job/profession as I did recently) and hence the idea of classes/hierarchy is really unknown to me.

 

But if some people feel so... I don't have a solution...

But I speak up if I see that people, even if I'm not being involved, are treated without respect. I just can't be shut up.

 

If I recall correctly your examples were Sariflor and I describing members of Mika's family.

Today I was checking the Stella-thread and person who posted the pics seemed to be a bit hesitated whether it was OK or not. And no-one answered her but as older members were commenting then it seemed to be OK. But, I also checked the guidelines and ready to withdraw back what I said about uploading pics. If the rules were not being corrected lately then I must have got that wrong picture from posts I have read.

However, posts from other people in the thread refer that I was not the only one who had got it wrongly.

 

Thus, as summa summarum it is good to know finally how things are going. I hope that you didn't feel attacked from my side. As a fact I was not worried so much about pics things because I am ignorant to that stuff I was pissed off because of the patronising posts and then used pics issue as an example the stuff that was confusing for me. I thought that if I'd say my point in general "someone said to someone about something on some other thread" which is quite common it may drive people crazy as people who are not involved, at all, may take it as they are involved. Didn't aim to cause a chaos.

 

This is not against the rules, so there is no "skipping of rules" in this case.

I still think that describing people whom many people haven't seen but eagerly would like to, only feeds curiosity and will lead to next thread like this. If other people don't see a problem, fine with me. I'm not getting better or worse of that.

 

Are we OK with you, now?

 

*I have noticed that my postman has become flirting with me as since I found Mika and started to buy CDs I also started to see my postman and now it occurred to me that he might think that I want to see him *

 

 

Do you join a reading club and immediately start telling people what books you think they should read and how they should go about discussing them? Do you join a cooking club. Do you get hired into a new company and, without familiarizing yourself with their business practices, start telling them how you think business should be run based on your old company in a different industry and different part of the country?

 

I didn't catch the point, actually. Are you saying that I did when I was joining MFC?

 

Why are you attacking me?

 

 

YES, I don't care if it's in the rules or not, but newbies should make an effort to shut up, pay attention, and figure out how and why things are done before chiming in with contributions. To do so without figuring out how the community operates is rude. No more, no less. Newbies should (and are) are given some understandable slack, sure--and if they say something that's got a good point, they'll be listened to just as well as anyone else ?

God bless you.

 

The community is there to be a community, not to hold newbies' hands and kiss away any boo-boos just because they were special enough to grant the community the favor of their presence.

 

You know, when you write a patronising post it is perceived like someone is shouting on you.

I never let myself shout on other people and I also never let people to shout on me even if it would be Prime Minister or President himself.

I am not going to make an exception for you either.

 

*Why should newbies want you to kiss them, you are so nervous? *

 

 

Is the rest of the post worth to be replied further? NO!

[JackViolet]

I didn't catch the point, actually. Are you saying that I did when I was joining MFC?

Why are you attacking me?

 

No, I wasn't even talking about you. It seems a lot of people are taking things strangely personally in this thread when the examples given are general examples. I was using "you" in a general sense. My point was that when any newbie--not you--joins a messageboard and doesn't take the time to figure out its rules before posting, and then gets upset when people get short-tempered with them--it's like the examples I provided. I didn't say you specifically did any of this, (I don't think you did) but you did seem to be arguing that newbies should be allowed to act like that and older members should be exhaustingly indulgent.

 

*Why should newbies want you to kiss them, you are so nervous? *

 

I don't understand what this means?

 

--Jack

[JackViolet]

To be honest, it's a bit hard to figure out when new members are being ironic because... well, you'll see. With all the language and personality differences, sometimes irony kind of dies around here. I've had the embarrassing situation of responding to someone who I was sure was being sarcastic... only to find out they were entirely sincere.

 

Also, I still feel bad for telling Phunky that recommending Joanna Newsom to Mika was like recommending David Bowie, because I asked around and apparently she really is a lot more niche than I thought. And I was just being silly anyway. (Sorry, it's totally unrelated, I just still feel bad.)

 

You can't catch me like that- I've read the FAQs so know what an apple is

 

There are apples in the FAQ? Damn I should read that shizz once in awhile.

 

Have we got the apple description in the FAQs ??

 

:roftl:

 

Pfffft. I wrote the FAQ, of course I was going to mention apples! But I didn't share any of our secrets. Not that we really have any.

 

The FAQ does include a primer to forum slang that I think is useful though. And I'm glad there are less "what is chicken?" questions now.

 

--Jack

[dilek]

 

Anyway, the point here is that, once I registered, I didn’t even dare open a new thread for anything, and avoided doing so for a while, always thinking that maybe what I was going to say was silly, or not relevant, or ultimately, may have been ok to say but just not necessarily on a thread of its own. Heck, I even wondered if I was ALLOWED to open new threads (besides the typical “hi, it’s me, I’m new” ones) !

 

i exactly understand what you're saying!

 

i'm not a newbie anymore but i'm still afraid of making a new thread.

last night when i saw lunar eclipse i got too excited and was about to make a new thread, then i remembered that there was a solar eclipse thread somewhere..

i thought "hey, they are all eclipse at the end, aren't they":naughty:

then i ended up bumping the solar one instead of making a new thread!

 

luckily i caught some attention and shared my excitement:blush-anim-cl:

 

it's really strange seeing some members that have 40 posts and 15 threads already when i still don't have any..

----------------

And I think that it’s just because “that is what you do” when you enter a new group of people in any situation in life, and you need to adapt to how they do things and to what they are like. You just look around, try to get a feel for people, behaviours, customs, and then you get stuck in at your own pace, but taking the time to adapt to the new environment and for the others to get to know and adapt to you.

 

i have a confession to make:blush-anim-cl:

i registered on november but i didn't know that i can post on threads!!

so just read for 4 months

 

then i got a PM from sunny monkey

which was basically saying "you can post now you fool!"

actually it wasn't saying "you fool" but i felt it:naughty:

then i started posting...

 

i never replied that pm because i didn't know that you can reply pm's too...

now i'm laughing but it wasn't that funny then:roftl:

 

i want to thank for that pm:wub2:

--------------

[sariflor]

i exactly understand what you're saying!

 

i'm not a newbie anymore but i'm still afraid of making a new thread.

last night when i saw lunar eclipse i got too excited and was about to make a new thread, then i remembered that there was a solar eclipse thread somewhere..

i thought "hey, they are all eclipse at the end, aren't they"

then i ended up bumping the solar one instead of making a new thread!

 

luckily i caught some attention and shared my excitement:blush-anim-cl:

 

it's really strange seeing some members that have 40 posts and 15 threads already when i still don't have any..

----------------

 

 

i have a confession to make:blush-anim-cl:

i registered on november but i didn't know that i can post on threads!!

so just read for 4 months

 

then i got a PM from sunny monkey

which was basically saying "you can post now you fool!"

actually it wasn't saying "you fool" but i felt it:naughty:

then i started posting...

 

i never replied that pm because i didn't know that you can reply pm's too...

now i'm laughing but it wasn't that funny then:roftl:

 

i want to thank for that pm:wub2:

--------------

 

 

ooh Dilek, that story is so cute and hilarious

[chickadee]

You really just don't come into a group and expect the existing majority to cater to you just because you're new.

 

YES, I don't care if it's in the rules or not, but newbies should make an effort to shut up, pay attention, and figure out how and why things are done before chiming in with contributions. To do so without figuring out how the community operates is rude. No more, no less. Newbies should (and are) are given some understandable slack, sure--and if they say something that's got a good point, they'll be listened to just as well as anyone else (thus we have the experience of people like Niki27, who said she never felt like a "newbie"). But if they don't, why must the entire community accommodate itself for them?

 

They obviously didn't care to grant the community the basic respect of figuring out how it functions. Nor do they respect the hundreds' of active members' time if they expect them to do the work of explaining basic things that they should have taken the time to figure out, because they don't feel like spending their own time.

 

--Jack

 

God, I'm glad I didn't run into you when I was a newbie:naughty: I did some of those things. I didn't know I shouldn't. Maybe I'm extremely socially naive or stupid (perhaps where my son gets his Asperger's from). But for me it wasn't about disrespecting the community. That just never even came into my thinking. If I recall correctly, it was about grasping the opportunity. Son and husband were away at camp for a whole weekend, leaving me at home with toddler girl. It was a little burst of freedom (I know, I need to get out more:wink2:) and I wasn't going to waste my opportunity.

 

Another comment .. maybe an older member struggles to find a thread or home now to talk in , some of the more popular threads are newbie threads for want of a better word....

 

Works both ways

 

I've actually heard that said a fair bit lately, and I've felt it myself. I will say again.... Thank God for the Aussies!

 

Questions that have been posed a million times have been reflected in the infamous FAQ's, that took a number of members a big effort and many hours of work. You may want to also ask yourselves: what was in it for the members who helped out making them?

They did it so that newer members would have an easier and nicer experience here, which would reflect on a nicer forum for everyone.

 

I appreciate all the work that went into them, i was very pleased to see the updated ones when I got my internet back earlier in the year, as I'd read the one's in Yop's siggy back when that's where they were and they were a big help. But it had taken me a while to notice those ones, so I'm glad they do go to all new members now.

 

But I have two points to make. One is that there is a lot of stuff in the FAQ. I've read them, but I don't remember every single thing that I read there and I may forget that something is covered there. Perhaps others are making this mistake as well?

 

Secondly, if you're anything like me, sometimes I have to see something in context first before it makes sense. What I mean is, I could join, read the FAQ but until I start moving around the board a bit and interacting with people, some of what I've read may not make a lot of sense. In the meantime, while I'm working this out, I may make faux pas that do not mean I didn't read the FAQ, but haven't yet worked out that that info fits in this situation. Does that make sense?

 

Is it really a lot to ask for from new members, that they take some time to get a feel for the place before they start jumping to conclusions or into wild arguments about things that they just haven't taken the time to look into?

 

I've been guilty of telling people in welcome threads to just jump right in to this fun, mad place. Maybe when the FAQ gets mailed to newbies there could be a gently worded advisement added to take their time and look around first?

*shrugs* Just an idea. But it may come across as patronising to those who really don't need to be given that advice. Someone like me would have needed it though.

 

Anyway, the point here is that, once I registered, I didn’t even dare open a new thread for anything, and avoided doing so for a while, always thinking that maybe what I was going to say was silly, or not relevant, or ultimately, may have been ok to say but just not necessarily on a thread of its own. Heck, I even wondered if I was ALLOWED to open new threads (besides the typical “hi, it’s me, I’m new” ones) !

 

Haha. I opened a thread to say how excited I was to be here and Cazgirl called me a cutie or a sweetie or something. That made me laugh, cos I could see her picture and she looked so much younger than me!

 

And I think that it’s just because “that is what you do” when you enter a new group of people in any situation in life, and you need to adapt to how they do things and to what they are like. You just look around, try to get a feel for people, behaviours, customs, and then you get stuck in at your own pace, but taking the time to adapt to the new environment and for the others to get to know and adapt to you.

 

But not everybody does that. There are some people out there like me and we don't mean to be rude. I'm a very shy person. However, in new social situations, I can be extremely brash. God, I'm like Fergie. Clumsy.

I'm not saying that you are all responsible for how I am, I realise that to a certain degree it is up to me to learn how to fit in with society, but we are all different and it takes some of us a bit longer to work these things out. How much grace time do you give someone?

 

If you add to this the fact that many people have met and become friends in RL, and that some of us chat every day, well…obviously we will get on more than say another member that we have never spoken to.

 

Yes, there's a lot more goes on off forum than a lot of people realise. I didn't when I was new.

 

I guess that what I find so hard to understand is that people go on about the “pecking order” or the “first class MFC’ers” and that sort of talk, when all it comes down to is how real human interaction within a social group works.

 

But all through real life, there are pecking orders. Or loose heirarchies as Christine put it. All of life has them, and they don't stop just because you get out of school. Why do we grade people? Why do certain people get onto the covers of magazines and others don't? Why don't we all get paid the same? There are formal ones, where such and such is your boss and you are so and so's superviser. There are informal ones based on how much you respect and value those around you, which differs depending on who you're talking about. But they are still there. Maybe my terminolgy is wrong. Is there another phrase that describes this better?

 

I still remember a post by chickadee where she asked me a question which I didn't have time to respond to then (it would have been long) and I keep thinking "I need to do that" and still haven't. Months have gone by now and she has probably forgotten all about it, but it shows you how things go.

 

Ummmm, yep. Competely forgotten. I'm wracking my brain to work out what it was about!

[Christine]

I've been guilty of telling people in welcome threads to just jump right in to this fun, mad place. Maybe when the FAQ gets mailed to newbies there could be a gently worded advisement added to take their time and look around first?

 

I think people can jump right in if they feel like it but they need to be prepared to face the consequences and not come whinging when the response is unfavourable.

 

Sometimes the consequences are very positive. I always notice and take to people who jump right in and are gregarious, funny and are familiar enough with internet etiquette in general that they don't really need to know the ins and outs of MFC to make a positive impression.

 

But if you're going to do and say things that would not be well tolerated in a real life situation you can expect the same reaction here. Like the many examples that Jack gave, you don't walk into your new job and tell one of the VPs that you think he's doing a sh*t job and you hope the board of directors comes in and fires him.

 

I mean that's exactly what happened in this thread so is it really so out of line that a long-time member has told newbies that they should just sit down and STFU? In any real life situation you would simply be shown the door and told never to return if you behaved like that.

 

But all through real life, there are pecking orders. Or loose heirarchies as Christine put it. All of life has them, and they don't stop just because you get out of school.

 

This is why I don't like the comparisons of MFC to high school. It suggests that the behaviour here is sophomoric and if we were more mature we would get over it and start behaving some other way towards each other.

 

The dynamics of MFC can be seen in all kinds of social and even work situations. It's just the nature of human interaction. Of course there is a history and unique dynamics to MFC that newbies can't be expected to know immediately, but should we really need to explain the fundamentals of generally acceptable social interaction to anyone over the age of 13?

[Blue Sky]

Well this thread has woken the brain cells up for today!!

 

Hey, what are you trying to imply here missy, that I chat too much?

 

 

Maybe we need to analyse why some feel such a strong need for acknowledgement?

 

a. Yes (although I am not the missy you refer to), and not only you...

 

b. You want to analyse self-esteem issues on here??? You want to start the Sariflor's couch thread or something???

 

 

I think it is amazing I have NEVER met any of you. It is nice to be able to establish a rapport with people on the other side of the world, in all different agegroups and cultures and so on, and still never meet.

 

*insert evil laugh*

You think you know me......:roftl:

[Kelzy]

Well this thread has woken the brain cells up for today!!

 

 

 

a. Yes (although I am not the missy you refer to), and not only you...

 

b. You want to analyse self-esteem issues on here??? You want to start the Sariflor's couch thread or something???

 

 

I think it is amazing I have NEVER met any of you. It is nice to be able to establish a rapport with people on the other side of the world, in all different agegroups and cultures and so on, and still never meet.

 

*insert evil laugh*

You think you know me......:roftl:

I can send Miss Soangel in here to tell us all about you Miss Sky

[chickadee]

This is why I don't like the comparisons of MFC to high school. It suggests that the behaviour here is sophomoric and if we were more mature we would get over it and start behaving some other way towards each other.

 

The dynamics of MFC can be seen in all kinds of social and even work situations. It's just the nature of human interaction. Of course there is a history and unique dynamics to MFC that newbies can't be expected to know immediately, but should we really need to explain the fundamentals of generally acceptable social interaction to anyone over the age of 13?

 

*goes to look up sophomoric*

Sophomoric: conceited and overconfident of knowledge but poorly informed and immature <a sophomoric argument>

That's a good word. I like it!

Well, not everybody on here is sophomoric, but if nobody was, we wouldn't be having this conversation!

[racinghorse83]

 

oooh i dont mean to look so angry hahaha

[violet_sky]

i exactly understand what you're saying!

 

i'm not a newbie anymore but i'm still afraid of making a new thread.

last night when i saw lunar eclipse i got too excited and was about to make a new thread, then i remembered that there was a solar eclipse thread somewhere..

i thought "hey, they are all eclipse at the end, aren't they"

then i ended up bumping the solar one instead of making a new thread!

 

luckily i caught some attention and shared my excitement

 

it's really strange seeing some members that have 40 posts and 15 threads already when i still don't have any..

----------------

 

 

i have a confession to make:blush-anim-cl:

i registered on november but i didn't know that i can post on threads!!

so just read for 4 months

 

then i got a PM from sunny monkey

which was basically saying "you can post now you fool!"

actually it wasn't saying "you fool" but i felt it:naughty:

then i started posting...

 

i never replied that pm because i didn't know that you can reply pm's too...

now i'm laughing but it wasn't that funny then:roftl:

 

i want to thank for that pm:wub2:

--------------

 

I second that!

Many thanks for telling dilek that she can post!

[Soaring Simpson]

You can't catch me like that- I've read the FAQs so know what an apple is

 

Pfffft. I wrote the FAQ, of course I was going to mention apples! But I didn't share any of our secrets. Not that we really have any.

 

This being MFC I did wonder afterwards if I should have posted:

 

You can't catch me like that- I've read the FAQs so know what an apple is

 

Disclaimer

This comment is not meant as a criticism of any person living or dead. The phrase "You can't catch me" should not be taken to indicate that I think people are out to get me or that I am paranoid- my therapist will confirm this on request. The phrase "I've read the FAQs" should not be taken to imply that I've memorised them, that I've understood them, that I speak the language they are written in or that I even know what an FAQ is. Neither should it be taken to imply that I do not do any of the above. The phrase "I know what an apple is"

should not be taken to imply that I know everything about them,

or who they are, merely that I have assimilated the information provided by the FAQs.

 

And if this is an old joke- tough!

[Kelzy]

This being MFC I did wonder afterwards if I should have posted:

 

You can't catch me like that- I've read the FAQs so know what an apple is

 

Disclaimer

This comment is not meant as a criticism of any person living or dead. The phrase "You can't catch me" should not be taken to indicate that I think people are out to get me or that I am paranoid- my therapist will confirm this on request. The phrase "I've read the FAQs" should not be taken to imply that I've memorised them, that I've understood them, that I speak the language they are written in or that I even know what an FAQ is. Neither should it be taken to imply that I do not do any of the above. The phrase "I know what an apple is"

should not be taken to imply that I know everything about them,

or who they are, merely that I have assimilated the information provided by the FAQs.

 

And if this is an old joke- tough!

Now that you're protected by a disclaimer, they'll never catch you.

[JackViolet]

God, I'm glad I didn't run into you when I was a newbie:naughty: I did some of those things. I didn't know I shouldn't. Maybe I'm extremely socially naive or stupid (perhaps where my son gets his Asperger's from). But for me it wasn't about disrespecting the community. That just never even came into my thinking. If I recall correctly, it was about grasping the opportunity. Son and husband were away at camp for a whole weekend, leaving me at home with toddler girl. It was a little burst of freedom (I know, I need to get out more:wink2:) and I wasn't going to waste my opportunity.

 

Hahah, well I don't remember you doing anything "wrong" really. Newbie enthusiasm is cute, and it's not like I'm saying enthusiastic newbies are doomed to failure--but as Christine said, if they don't take the time to suss out the forum, they should expect possible backlash.

 

The thing is, in general (not accusing you of anything), disrespecting someone/something basically does boil down to not having them come into your thinking--for whatever reason. Ie, privileging your own needs/desires over those of others, or not bothering to consider others.

 

Like, say I'm at a party, and they're serving tea cakes, and I particularly love the raspberry ones--I've eaten two already. Then I see there's only one left on the tray and I go for it. By taking the 3rd cake, it doesn't have to mean I was actively trying to be inconsiderate--I wasn't thinking of that, I was just thinking "hey! The last cake! What an opportunity!" but precisely because I wasn't thinking of others, I'd say it was likely I was being quite disrespectful to anyone else who might have wanted to have one of those cakes too. I wasn't consciously deciding "my desire to have a 3rd cake is more important than giving anyone else a chance to try it," but nevertheless, I was acting like my desire was the only thing there was, wasn't I? And maybe if I'd taken the time to look around I'd have seen that there were 30 guests and 30 raspberry cakes, so in fact I'd deprived two people of the chance to even try the cake.

 

If I'd never been to a dinner party before, I may even be excused for not thinking that I shouldn't just take whatever I felt like. But that doesn't mean that the other guests don't have a pretty good reason to be annoyed at my behavior.

 

And I think on online forums, newbies often act like the guest who eats 3 cakes and then gets really upset when people get annoyed with them for it. They're not trying to disrespect anyone, but they simply aren't considering their actions in the context of a community, rather than just themselves.

 

--Jack

[Fmbm]

Is this still being discussed?

[JackViolet]

Is this still being discussed?

 

I dunno, I'm just procrastinating.

 

--Jack

[FREDDIESDOUBLE]

Is this still being discussed?

 

Yeh you second my thoughts

 

Surely we can close the thing? its been talked to death

[Fmbm]

I dunno, I'm just procrastinating.

 

--Jack

 

Yeh you second my thoughts

 

Surely we can close the thing? its been talked to death

 

Seriously, there's not even really anything to talk about.

 

 

To summarize this thread: don't post pictures of Mika's family and read the FAQ.

[FREDDIESDOUBLE]

Yeh you second my thoughts

 

Surely we can close the thing? its been talked to death

 

Jack

 

"they should expect possible backlash."

 

I dont think this is far to be honest , no body should "expect backlash"