Kelzy Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 In relation to this guideline: There's a general agreement around MFC (and in real life if you have friends) that if you have a photo of yourself with another MFCer, or even just a photo of other MFCers, that you ASK them if you can post it online before doing so. It's based on respect. I can't see how describing someone in minor detail breaks this agreement. So Christine, I personally don't think you said anything wrong at all. This event that Mr Penniman snr attended (the recent video) was a public event. He would've been aware of the fact filming would be taking place so to be identified by Mika fans is a risk he obviously took. But, considering he's not identified on the footage itself, with pretty font under his posing face as he proudly stands near his son etc etc, in this instant (and this instant alone) it's only slightly possible that it was a legitimate and planned public appearance on his behalf. So, going back to what I said ^up there^, unless we know for sure that it was meant to be a legitimate and planned public appearance and that he wouldn't mind if people posted information to confirm his identity, or point out who he is in the footage, then we only have assumptions (Oh, why do we only ever have assumptions around here?? ).. And, therefore rather than post and be wrong and disrespecting of his privacy, we are safer to not do so, and just be respectful. This is just how things are at this point in time. It could change. But we can't change it for him. We just need to wait for undeniable evidence to the contrary. Surely, if he has overcome his need to keep a low profile and not be identified, then he will appear again and we can then assume that he is ok with being recognised in public. [/opinion] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soaring Simpson Posted August 16, 2008 Share Posted August 16, 2008 Below is a quote from Okie Dokie, which I seem to have mucked up: EDIT: Another thing - it's like in the Lebanon press conference video thread, it's fine for people to say "Oh, his dad is there with him, and he looks so proud of his son, how sweet!" but this observation is a privilege limited to people who have seen him before in RL? Other people can't be 'let in' on it, when so many people already know what he looks like? I dunno, it just comes across as unfair towards the newer/disadvantaged people, and that's pretty much the whole reason this thread managed to go from "is it okay to talk about his family" to "are newbies treated unfairly". I basically agree with this and having just re-read the rule, notice it prohibits asking for information about family members. I think it would probably save a lot of stress all round if the rule was amended to a blanket ban on discussion of family members, other than those named by the moderators on some stated basis. A further rule, banning public responses like "I'm not allowed to say, so I'll PM it" might also be useful (or enforced, if we've already got one- I only remember rules I might be tempted to break) as they make the rule a bit pointless and inflame curiosity. Also, I think it was Rak that said (more or less) that the ban of photos was by Mika's request so what's with the complaints about heavy handedness? (If it was someone else, sorry.) I'd say that the reason for a rule is unrelated to the way in which it's enforced - which is not a comment on whether those complaints are justified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marie-andrée de rougemont Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 I've been reading this thread with interest and find myself thinking one thing.The whole reason we don't go posting pics of Mikas family, is because HE asked us not to! The whole thing of accusing the mods of being heavyhanded and schoolmarmish, is totally moot and irrelevant. They only put this into place because Mika asked for it. So, at the risk of being branded patronising, do we just ignore Mikas wishes and take photos of his family willy nilly, and do whatever we like with them? Wouldn't this make us at bad as the paparazzi that we dislike so much (well I do anyway)? I have never, and will never take photos of any member of his family,(to be honest even after meeting his mum and Yasmine, I still wouldn't recognise them in the street, if I bumped into them, so I certainly wouldn't have a clue if I bumped into any other family member) without their express permission, and I certainly wouldn't dream of posting them on the internet if I ever did. If it's private, it's private, end of discussion. Marie-Thérèse Your reaction to my post carefully avoids answering my criticism about a senior member giving descriptions of Michael and Fortuné Penniman and then reproachin gothers with doing the same thing. If Christine put on line description of the two guys, doesn't it make her 'as bad as the paparazzi' ? Or, again, is there a double standard on this Forum ? Pretty worrying if that is the case... M.Th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babspanky Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 Marie-Thérèse Your reaction to my post carefully avoids answering my criticism about a senior member giving descriptions of Michael and Fortuné Penniman and then reproachin gothers with doing the same thing. If Christine put on line description of the two guys, doesn't it make her 'as bad as the paparazzi' ? Or, again, is there a double standard on this Forum ? Pretty worrying if that is the case... M.Th. Things seem to be pretty intense here. If there are double standards on the forum, I am sure those members will explain themselves. I personally don't find this particularly worrying. I have bigger things to worry about. It's only an online forum for goodness' sake, not a world peace treaty. The argument seems to me to be a points scoring one. What's to prove? The situation has been discussed to death in this thread. Can I suggest if some members aren't happy with the outcome or discussion, to take it up privately with the mods. And please, anyone, everyone, don't give me some long winded, intimidating argument in reply that will make me, as a less intelligent, less articulate member, feel intimidated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
violet_sky Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 I'm smelling some sort of kinda Troll activities in here including sh!it stirring just for the f*ck of it. Note the 'sort of kinda' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marie-andrée de rougemont Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 Marie-Thérèse As I mentioned to Soaring Simpson earlier, in retrospect, the more effective approach would have been to not entertain people's questions at all. I gave the members here more credit and didn't expect it to lead to people encouraging others to take videos of Mika's brother. My mistake. (first posted by Christine). Your mistake was in the first place to answer questions that, given your stong views about stepping the line, you must have deemed highly inappropriate. I find it cute -and very typical- that your initial mistake should be turned into reproaching other members with not understanding your subliminal warning : 'Mind you, folks, that doesn't allow you to spot them in a crowd and take videos of them !' I never advised people on this forum to circulate photos or videos of any member of Mika's family but would feel an insufferable prig if I asked them to refrain from posting paparazzi's stolen pictures, even though I am not happy to see them on line. At the Beirut press conference I could have taken videos of his whole entourage, up to their dog (I mean if there had been one) but it would have made me feel uncomfortable, so I didn't do it. I didn't even ask them if I could, although many people filmed them away without bothering to ask. It had nothing to do with other people's patronizing view and I, for one, give credit to other MFC members to act as they think appropriate because I don't consider them as stalking freaks. Do you think I am wrong ? So long, M.-Th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sienna Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 Things seem to be pretty intense here.If there are double standards on the forum, I am sure those members will explain themselves. I personally don't find this particularly worrying. I have bigger things to worry about. It's only an online forum for goodness' sake, not a world peace treaty. The argument seems to me to be a points scoring one. What's to prove? The situation has been discussed to death in this thread. Can I suggest if some members aren't happy with the outcome or discussion, to take it up privately with the mods. And please, anyone, everyone, don't give me some long winded, intimidating argument in reply that will make me, as a less intelligent, less articulate member, feel intimidated. Love you Babs! Short enough for you? I'm smelling some sort of kinda Troll activities in here including sh!it stirring just for the f*ck of it. Note the 'sort of kinda' Oh, trolls! I smell an unbelievable wish to have the last word or maybe just stubbornness?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
violet_sky Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackViolet Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 Your reaction to my post carefully avoids answering my criticism about a senior member giving descriptions of Michael and Fortuné Penniman and then reproachin gothers with doing the same thing. If Christine put on line description of the two guys, doesn't it make her 'as bad as the paparazzi' ? Or, again, is there a double standard on this Forum ? Pretty worrying if that is the case... People have answered several times already: NO ONE was ever reproached with giving descriptions of Michael and Fortune Penniman. Several more people (such as Big Girl) just provided some more descriptions--no one minded or cared. The ONLY reason others were reproached is that they told people to get ready with their cameras. I would feel an insufferable prig if I asked them to refrain from posting paparazzi's stolen pictures, even though I am not happy to see them on line. Yeah, well, Mika's an insufferable prig I suppose. Too bad this is his fanclub and all, so sometimes we try to oblige his wishes. --Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 Your reaction to my post carefully avoids answering my criticism about a senior member giving descriptions of Michael and Fortuné Penniman and then reproachin gothers with doing the same thing. And your reaction to my post blatantly avoids the fact I did not reproach anyone for giving descriptions of Mika's family members. I'm not sure what exactly you're hoping to accomplish here by repeatedly making false accusations against me because the people participating in this thread are more than capable of reading for themselves that I never said any such thing. If you wanted to destroy what little credibility you had to start with to the point where members wonder if you're a troll, then congratulations. You've done a bang up job. The people who have participated in this thread have responded to you and others in good faith in an effort to clarify one of the rules of this forum. We are not here to entertain you by playing games and I am not going to tolerate any further false charges of hypocrisy in this thread levied against me or any other member. If you have any legitimate complaints about me or any of the moderators or members here you can take it up with dcdeb in private message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sariflor Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 Marie-Thérèse Your reaction to my post carefully avoids answering my criticism about a senior member giving descriptions of Michael and Fortuné Penniman and then reproachin gothers with doing the same thing. If Christine put on line description of the two guys, doesn't it make her 'as bad as the paparazzi' ? Or, again, is there a double standard on this Forum ? Pretty worrying if that is the case... M.Th. I will add another little bit to this thread (that I've been reading, but avoiding to comment on again, as things have gotten a bit intense and I had a bit too much going on in real life to devote enough time to lenghty replies here). In my humble opinion, you are not doing yourself any favours by obviously ignoring other posts that clarify issues that you raise, and then stubbornly attacking them again without taking into account the new information provided. Like Christine said earlier: if you are going to sit here and throw accusations at people, the very least that you can do is to read everything, and respond to what is posted. At the moment, you seem to just be set on attacking someone, and to ignore any little bit of reality or actual fact that may have been brought up, and that is pointless. You say that things are not fair, not logical, not coherent, and hypocritical. I fail to see how coherent it is to use "facts" against someone, which you are not even sure of, and you didn't even bother checking yourself. I don't understand what your motivation in this is, but if it is to clarify facts and have the truth preail, then you really seem to be missing many points. Maybe you could read other people's posts in the matter, rather than decorating what you think has been said with your own spin on it. Love you Babs!Short enough for you? Oh, trolls! I smell an unbelievable wish to have the last word or maybe just stubbornness?! I love you Sienna Oooh is that a St Bernard?? I love all those giant mountain dogs, my favourite being the Bernese Mountain Dog. Beautiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hele_Noor Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 As being the one who had turned the thread active again I feel I have a responsibility to say something: At first, I wish I could change the title of the thread. Babspanky's and dcdeb's, are you talking about/to me? Trust me, I have anything personal to people here as I don't know anyone personally. But I stand for that the older members of MFC were patronising newbies in the thread some "pages" ago and that really pissed me off. If you read the posts again you'll see how newbies are ordered to wait their turn, it sounded like "you don't know the history, so shut up and look around and preferably silent". And now I'm patronising myself and telling that do not come to tell me that it was not so and end of discussion. (Translation: I know what I am talking about as making of structural text analysis gives me my daily bread and these posts are like the examples from a textbook.) I have read posts where old members were commenting newbies when they asked things. I never felt being insulted personally. Maybe I would be if I were more active in posting/chatting and had visited more threads than I do and if I hadn't been so busy as I was within last weeks so I managed to come to MFC only 1-2 times in a week. But at the moment, as you see there are people who say that they had experienced bad treatment from fellow MFCers, and there were people who admitted that too as were trying to make it better saying that it was just slightly ironic, etc. It was interesting to read the posts of old members on this thread of yesterday which were -I'd say - quite demanding and mocking, but no-one asked what a f..., why do newbies say/feel so and try to start clear it up as they got more experience and knowledge. I still insist that there is much confusion with some things what is accepted and what is not as there are written rules which should be followed but then again in threads here and there you can see that some people are skipping these rules and gave the examples of these cases what I saw questionable. So I posed a question - what to do? Don't get me wrong, I am not worried about uploading pictures related to Mika and his family myself and never had problems with mods. I know, I'm a s... fan from that point of view as no contribution from my side. /---/ (nothing to mention about, just some little facts) but I keep crediting the privacy rules as much I will never drip them here, even not in the slightest way. Nevertheless, there are some confusing issues about "a-ok"s and "no-go"s to me and in order to avoid the problems I think the rules must be either revised/more specified or, then, all mfc-ers must be liable to follow them without making exceptions like "oh, that was tiny-minor description" etc. as such things normally course interest and there are evidentally many people who are eager to know any tiny further detail related to Mika. I do hope my post didn't harm anyone's feelings, if so, please let me know either by PM in return or leave a post here and I am sure we can find the way out. Have a nice Sunday, h P.S. Previewed my post I must admit that it became too long (again! Sry), but I think the subject needed more detailed approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sienna Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 Oh yes, stubbornness embodied, in very small body! I love you Sienna Oooh is that a St Bernard?? I love all those giant mountain dogs, my favourite being the Bernese Mountain Dog. Beautiful. Love you too! Yes it's a St Bernard, his name is Båtsman in the Saltkråka movie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hele_Noor Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 Yes it's a St Bernard, his name is Båtsman in the Saltkråka movie! Ooo, little Tjorven, Batsman and Moses. Love the book! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 If you read the posts again you'll see how newbies are ordered to wait their turn, it sounded like "you don't know the history, so shut up and look around and preferably silent". This was a predictable response to a new member who has repeatedly made condescending comments to existing members and makes arguments based on erroneous "facts". Everything from telling native English speakers that they can't understand her posts because their English comprehension skills are lacking to claiming that she's found one of Mika's new songs on the internet, when in fact it was a song by another artist. Really there is only so much that people are going to tolerate before they start biting back. That doesn't mean there is some systemic problem within MFC where newbies are regularly treated with contempt and without provocation by the so-called upper class. I still insist that there is much confusion with some things what is accepted and what is not as there are written rules which should be followed but then again in threads here and there you can see that some people are skipping these rules and gave the examples of these cases what I saw questionable. If I recall correctly your examples were Sariflor and I describing members of Mika's family. This is not against the rules, so there is no "skipping of rules" in this case. If there is a consensus among members that we wish to extend the current rules to include no discussion of Mika's family members, we can talk about incorporating that into the current written guidelines. But please don't turn this into an example of moderators or other long-term members flouting the rules while we jump all over newbies for the same behaviour. If and when such a rule were to be put into effect, both Sariflor and I would obey it. Nevertheless, there are some confusing issues about "a-ok"s and "no-go"s to me and in order to avoid the problems I think the rules must be either revised/more specified or, then, all mfc-ers must be liable to follow them without making exceptions like "oh, that was tiny-minor description" etc. as such things normally course interest and there are evidentally many people who are eager to know any tiny further detail related to Mika. I believe you are correct that being more specific in the guidelines might make it easier to clamp down on people posting photos or soliciting too much personal detail. But at the same time it's not the end of the world if someone starts getting into uncomfortable territory and other members point out that it's making them uncomfortable. As Bab said this is a message forum and as long as people treat each other with respect there is no harm done if someone makes an occasional foray into a grey area. Personally I would prefer that to having a lengthy set of written rules that reads like a criminal code. It is how these situations are handled that is at issue, IMO, not the actual rules themselves. For instance Jack and I draw lines in different places when it comes to public discussion about Mika's family members or mentioning his "package". She is free to voice her disapproval of such talk whether her position is reflected in the forum guidelines or not. The fact that our internal limits on what is acceptable on this forum differ does not mean that either of us is unclear about what is allowable according to the written guidelines. As long as we are civil to one another and to other members who are debating these topics, there is no problem in my opinion. Hey, chickadee. I know what you mean. Actually there is even a theory about this, unfortuantely can't remember how it is called. But the main idea of the theory is that if B likes A and A likes C, then in most cases B likes C too. I'm sometimes affected by that, but in reverse. If I like B and dislike C, but B likes C, I start to question my positive opinions about B. When Mika said he was going to see Tegan and Sara I really had to wonder about his taste in music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurel Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 I have to say having read this thread I'm kind of lost as to why some are so narky on this issue.... I mean this is the MFC.... I mean I'm curious like anyone is, being a kind of newbie still, about the rest of his family... but the only family member I'm really interested in, Mika aside, is Yasmine and that's only because I love her drawings.... I not really bothered to know what she looks like... I can't wait to see some of the upcoming designs for the new album and singles and their the only pictures I want to see... At the end of the day as Rose says, they don't want their photo's on here, so don't post them.... Can't see why you'd even want to try and take sneaky photo's or video's of them.... It's just odd to me.... I've never really understood the fascination of needing to know every detail of his family life.... I'm sure they're really nice... but I'm not here for them.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackViolet Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 But I stand for that the older members of MFC were patronising newbies in the thread some "pages" ago and that really pissed me off. If you read the posts again you'll see how newbies are ordered to wait their turn, it sounded like "you don't know the history, so shut up and look around and preferably silent". And to be honest, what is wrong with that? In real life, in every single other similar situation, no newbie would just burst into an established social group and start prancing around as they wish sans trying to learn the history, etc, without being considered extremely rude. You really just don't come into a group and expect the existing majority to cater to you just because you're new. Do you join a reading club and immediately start telling people what books you think they should read and how they should go about discussing them? Do you join a cooking club and immediately criticize their choice of menu ("You never cook lobster or shrimp! I want to know how to cook lobster! No decent dinner is complete without a shrimp cocktail!") without waiting a bit or even trying to figure how they've decided upon it (it's a kosher Jewish cooking club)? Do you get hired into a new company and, without familiarizing yourself with their business practices, start telling them how you think business should be run based on your old company in a different industry and different part of the country? No. YES, I don't care if it's in the rules or not, but newbies should make an effort to shut up, pay attention, and figure out how and why things are done before chiming in with contributions. To do so without figuring out how the community operates is rude. No more, no less. Newbies should (and are) are given some understandable slack, sure--and if they say something that's got a good point, they'll be listened to just as well as anyone else (thus we have the experience of people like Niki27, who said she never felt like a "newbie"). But if they don't, why must the entire community accommodate itself for them? They obviously didn't care to grant the community the basic respect of figuring out how it functions. Nor do they respect the hundreds' of active members' time if they expect them to do the work of explaining basic things that they should have taken the time to figure out, because they don't feel like spending their own time. The community is there to be a community, not to hold newbies' hands and kiss away any boo-boos just because they were special enough to grant the community the favor of their presence. You know the good thing about the newbie hierarchy system though? If you do pay attention and put forth a little effort to figure out how stuff works, you don't have to be a newbie for very long. In that respect at least, there is no real hierarchy--no one cares just how long you've been on the forum once you stop making the obvious faux pas. Most of the mods, for instance, joined a good bit after I did. Yet I've never had a conversation with Christine where her later joining date was an issue. --Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babspanky Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 Thanks Jack. To be honest that is how I feel too. Can I just say that as an older member, I can feel quite initmidated by newbies criticising what we say, how we say it, even what we know. I sometimes almost feel that I have to apologise for being a long term member, knowing a lot if in jokes and things that have happened in the past, for having contributed to this forum for over a year both by posting and financially. Oh and having been to a few gigs too. Sorry. Sorry about all of that. I know a fair few people who were here at the start or near the start that don't post much anymore due to this. It works both ways you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soaring Simpson Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 This was a predictable response to a new member who has repeatedly made condescending comments to existing members and makes arguments based on erroneous "facts". Everything from telling native English speakers that they can't understand her posts because their English comprehension skills are lacking to claiming that she's found one of Mika's new songs on the internet, when in fact it was a song by another artist. THIS IS NOT A CRITICISM as this is a long and confusing thread, but if anyone goes back to find the post in question, they'll find this, which I think is the one Hele_Noor is referring to: If you are a new member, I would say you should hang around a bit, maybe read through some back threads, etc, before making smug comments about the need for review. Especially since (considering that it's been less than a year since we had the rule overhaul) your "periodically" seems to mean "when I come on the scene, to accommodate my pov." Welcome to the internet. No, really. It's... pretty much part and parcel of any online community, again. Or... any community, really. New members tend to come on, and they don't know any of the history or conventions of the existing community, and if they start barging right on in without taking the time to figure things out, expecting everyone to accommodate their ignorance, of course they'll get some resistance! Especially if their behavior demands that older members have to explain stuff to them that's been hashed over a thousand times and really shouldn't be up to them to explain... of course the older memebers may get a little frustrated, or use that frustration to play jokes on the newer ones. Personally, when I join a new online community, I tend to watch it for a while without posting, acclimatise myself to the rules and general behavior, and only then join in. I consider such conduct simply basic respect on my part toward the community as a whole. --Jack It quotes me and people will assume Christine is describing me, while I'm pretty confident she's describing someone else. In a later post Jack expounds that people have to earn respect. Quite. That's why I'm not bothering to respond to Jack's recent post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackViolet Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 It quotes me and people will assume Christine is describing me, while I'm pretty confident she's describing someone else. No one thinks she is describing you, relax. In a later post Jack expounds that people have to earn respect. Quite. That's why I'm not bothering to respond to Jack's recent post. No, I wasn't saying that. I was saying you have to treat a community into which you enter with some respect. I don't know why it seems such a difficult concept for some people to get. And you know what, I've been active on many online forums, and hey! As I said, I take the time to read the rules and feel out what the atmosphere and tone of a place are before posting. Funnily enough I never had to deal with any real newbie issues, except for those times when I have indeed jumped in too fast without knowing what I was talking about and acted a twat. --Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soaring Simpson Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 No, I wasn't saying that. I was saying you have to treat a community into which you enter with some respect. And you know what, I've been active on many online forums, and hey! As I said, I take the time to read the rules and feel out what the atmosphere and tone of a place are before posting. Funnily enough I never had to deal with any real newbie issues, except for those times when I have indeed jumped in too fast without knowing what I was talking about and acted a twat. --Jack That's OK- I thought you'd appreciate a comment you couldn't call wimpish (I hope) Perhaps I should start a newbies/ random questions (you don't need to be new to ask who Amy Winehouse is) thread where we could help each other and other need only dip in as they chose, or would that clash with the existing MFC queries thread. I think it probably would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackViolet Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 That's OK- I thought you'd appreciate a comment you couldn't call wimpish (I hope) Perhaps I should start a newbies/ random questions (you don't need to be new to ask who Amy Winehouse is) thread where we could help each other and other need only dip in as they chose, or would that clash with the existing MFC queries thread. I think it probably would. I'm pretty sure that exists somewhere? One could revive it, that may be a good idea. One could also read the FAQ and guidelines. (I'm not saying everything is explained there, or that you haven't read them, but an awful lot of newbie issues do seem to come from not reading them.) The Amy Winehouse comment hardly had to do with being a newbie... anyone who'd have asked who she was might have gotten that response. And it wasn't even harsh, from what I remember? Just joking. A lot of us enjoy irony here. --Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soaring Simpson Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 I'm pretty sure that exists somewhere? One could revive it, that may be a good idea. One could also read the FAQ and guidelines. (I'm not saying everything is explained there, or that you haven't read them, but an awful lot of newbie issues do seem to come from not reading them.) The Amy Winehouse comment hardly had to do with being a newbie... anyone who'd have asked who she was might have gotten that response. And it wasn't even harsh, from what I remember? Just joking. A lot of us enjoy irony here. --Jack Yeah, I'm currently "searching threads" for MFC speak, language etc. Not having much luck, such a thread could be called so many things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sariflor Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 And to be honest, what is wrong with that? In real life, in every single other similar situation, no newbie would just burst into an established social group and start prancing around as they wish sans trying to learn the history, etc, without being considered extremely rude. You really just don't come into a group and expect the existing majority to cater to you just because you're new. Do you join a reading club and immediately start telling people what books you think they should read and how they should go about discussing them? Do you join a cooking club and immediately criticize their choice of menu ("You never cook lobster or shrimp! I want to know how to cook lobster! No decent dinner is complete without a shrimp cocktail!") without waiting a bit or even trying to figure how they've decided upon it (it's a kosher Jewish cooking club)? Do you get hired into a new company and, without familiarizing yourself with their business practices, start telling them how you think business should be run based on your old company in a different industry and different part of the country? No. YES, I don't care if it's in the rules or not, but newbies should make an effort to shut up, pay attention, and figure out how and why things are done before chiming in with contributions. To do so without figuring out how the community operates is rude. No more, no less. Newbies should (and are) are given some understandable slack, sure--and if they say something that's got a good point, they'll be listened to just as well as anyone else (thus we have the experience of people like Niki27, who said she never felt like a "newbie"). But if they don't, why must the entire community accommodate itself for them? They obviously didn't care to grant the community the basic respect of figuring out how it functions. Nor do they respect the hundreds' of active members' time if they expect them to do the work of explaining basic things that they should have taken the time to figure out, because they don't feel like spending their own time. The community is there to be a community, not to hold newbies' hands and kiss away any boo-boos just because they were special enough to grant the community the favor of their presence. You know the good thing about the newbie hierarchy system though? If you do pay attention and put forth a little effort to figure out how stuff works, you don't have to be a newbie for very long. In that respect at least, there is no real hierarchy--no one cares just how long you've been on the forum once you stop making the obvious faux pas. Most of the mods, for instance, joined a good bit after I did. Yet I've never had a conversation with Christine where her later joining date was an issue. --Jack You've perfectly expressed the way I feel about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soaring Simpson Posted August 17, 2008 Share Posted August 17, 2008 Well hopefully the "No Question Too Dumb" thread will help, though I dare say it'll be merged with an older one because it's hardly an original idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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