PLEASE READ: Forum Guidelines

[mandilambi]

" and avoid profanity, explicit sexual posts, or other content that may be

inappropriate. This would include posts that describe a sex act,

or strongly imply one. The forum system automatically blanks out certain

curse words, but there are some that it won't catch and you may be asked

to stop using those words by a moderator."

 

- Well, I guess this means no more getting to cuss people out. Thanks mods.

 

*kicks rocks*

 

...

 

nah, really, thanks mods.

[Haley & Megan Meyer]

For rules, we know them pretty well. We've only gotten one thread deleted because we were just saying how we loved this one "demo" song. We weren't leaking it out like giving the song to people or anything (that would be awful), we were just saying how much we loved it. We were very new to the forum and didn't look at all the new threads so we didn't know we couldn't talk about it, even though we were just saying how much we adored it. That was close to a year ago though and we pretty much know the rules now.

 

We're usually pretty nice and love to chat with members and it is so fun to be on this forum. There are so many great people. You mods are doing great. This is such a friendly place.

[lollipop_monkey]

I assume this means the Knitting thread and Mikagasmic threads will be/are already heavily modded? I take that for a comment to lead to an infraction or banning the remark must be extremely graphic. Is this the end of "chicken"?

 

Actually, most of us are fairly fond of chicken.

 

Girls will be girls, and frankly, this place is an estrogen-fest with a reasonably attractive young male at the centre of all the attention - at times things may be said that you might not hear in a nunnery. But I think most people are capable of judging where the line is - nothing overly explicit, obviously.

 

Like posting a random naked schlong in the Mikagasmic thread - that counts as "overly explicit." And yes, it's happened before.

 

Well, I guess this means no more getting to cuss people out. Thanks mods.

 

*kicks rocks*

 

LOL - that's fabulous coming from you, the cupcake of the MFC! It would be entertaining to see you cuss someone out.

 

(Disclaimer - outside the MFC, of course. I ain't encouraging you to go get yourself banned. )

[Guest]

I'm telling Mika you called him "reasonably" attractive.

[Kelzy]

Actually, most of us are fairly fond of chicken.

 

Girls will be girls, and frankly, this place is an estrogen-fest with a reasonably attractive young male at the centre of all the attention - at times things may be said that you might not hear in a nunnery. But I think most people are capable of judging where the line is - nothing overly explicit, obviously.

 

Like posting a random naked schlong in the Mikagasmic thread - that counts as "overly explicit." And yes, it's happened before.

 

And I missed it!!!!! Honestly, I'm glad I did..

So that clears up the chicken saga, because it was sure to be something people would wonder about Thanks.

With the infractions and it showing on someones profile, is only viewable when you go to their profile or is it viewable on their posts?

[Kelzy]

I'm telling Mika you called him "reasonably" attractive.

 

You forgot this

[Guest]

You forgot this

 

Oh, I'm not kidding. He's gonna hear about this.

I'm leaving him a voicemail right now.

[lollipop_monkey]

I'm telling Mika you called him "reasonably" attractive.

 

Shh, that's a secret. You don't want such high praise to inflate his ego.

 

With the infractions and it showing on someones profile, is only viewable when you go to their profile or is it viewable on their posts?

 

I'm 99% sure it's only visible on a user's profile. Deb will correct me if that's wrong.

[Kelzy]

Oh, I'm not kidding. He's gonna hear about this.

I'm leaving him a voicemail right now.

No need, I'll just lean over and tell him.

I'm 99% sure it's only visible on a user's profile. Deb will correct me if that's wrong.

That's what I thought too. I think you're right. If not we're both wrong

[Oakie Doke]

Good work Waiting for the appeal/grievance guidelines..

 

1. Personal insults and attacks are also prohibited, and will result in a ban from the forums. These include name-calling or insults about a person's religion, sex, sexual orientation, race, age, nationality, physical impairment, etc. Do not mock someone because of their appearance, or the way they speak/write, or the amount of time they spend on the forum.

 

Do not hide behind saying your comment was meant as "a joke", or use the

rose-colored glasses icon or white text to disguise a nasty remark. Just

saying you didn't mean something as an insult doesn't make it any less of

one.

 

I know this one is basically from the FAQ, but it bothers me a bit. I don't know about other people, but to me the stage where you go from being friendly aquaintences to friends is the stage when you can start teasing each other. If they laugh, then you've made it into friend territory, if they don't .. you mis-judged . I'm going to assume you wouldn't ban anyone for joke-teasing friends, but I wonder about if the accidental mis-judge-of-level-of-friendship happened ... It's more likely to happen on a forum that a person can walk away feeling hurt and possibly report or something, because they can't see the person's face or anything, and the person can't see their's so they can't say "oh, I was joking!" when the person doesn't laugh. Which is why I can understand trying to make "no mocking/etc rule" ... but teasing is what friends do, you can't just not do it at all .. if anybody is getting what I'm saying here ... anyone?

 

Well said!! Here Here! Or is it Hear Hear? I never know!

 

Me either!

*googles*

... hear hear.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hear_hear

Wikipedia doesn't lie:mf_rosetinted: (oops, ignore that rosetint )

 

Like posting a random naked schlong in the Mikagasmic thread - that counts as "overly explicit." And yes, it's happened before.

 

[dcdeb]

We've only gotten one thread deleted because we were just saying how we loved this one "demo" song. We weren't leaking it out like giving the song to people or anything (that would be awful), we were just saying how much we loved it. We were very new to the forum and didn't look at all the new threads so we didn't know we couldn't talk about it, even though we were just saying how much we adored it. That was close to a year ago though and we pretty much know the rules now.

 

We're usually pretty nice and love to chat with members and it is so fun to be on this foum. There are so many great people. You mods are doing great. This is such a friendly place.

 

It is pretty great, isn't it? It's the people who make it!

 

About the thread you had deleted -- we understand that newbies aren't

going to know all the guidelines, so that's not really a big deal.

Don't worry.

 

Girls will be girls, and frankly, this place is an estrogen-fest with a reasonably attractive young male at the centre of all the attention - at times things may be said that you might not hear in a nunnery. But I think most people are capable of judging where the line is - nothing overly explicit, obviously.

 

Yes, I agree with Mana -- there may be some innuendo and

comments that are a bit risque. Did I MAY be? I'm quite sure there

WILL be! But I'm pretty sure most of us know

what is going too far.

 

With the infractions and it showing on someones profile, is only viewable when you go to their profile or is it viewable on their posts?

 

I'm 99% sure it's only visible on a user's profile. Deb will correct me if that's wrong.

 

Well, at one time it definitely DID show up under the user's avatar on

every single post. I remember seeing something like "1/1" (which meant 1 active infraction, 1 total infraction) underneath the avvie.

But some admin must have tweaked something somewhere, because

I haven't seen the most recent infractions that were

given, show up anywhere except on the user profile.

Not sure if that's better or worse...

 

Good work Waiting for the appeal/grievance guidelines..

 

Well, be talking about those tomorrow, er, later today...

 

I know this one is basically from the FAQ, but it bothers me a bit. I don't know about other people, but to me the stage where you go from being friendly aquaintences to friends is the stage when you can start teasing each other. If they laugh, then you've made it into friend territory, if they don't .. you mis-judged . I'm going to assume you wouldn't ban anyone for joke-teasing friends, but I wonder about if the accidental mis-judge-of-level-of-friendship happened ... It's more likely to happen on a forum that a person can walk away feeling hurt and possibly report or something, because they can't see the person's face or anything, and the person can't see their's so they can't say "oh, I was joking!" when the person doesn't laugh. Which is why I can understand trying to make "no mocking/etc rule" ... but teasing is what friends do, you can't just not do it at all .. if anybody is getting what I'm saying here ... anyone?

 

I totally get what you're saying, and actually, I think we have had

some misunderstandings relating to this type of thing before. But

I think with time we've gotten more experienced and now I'd

say that we usually understand if the parties involved are

clearly joking with each other in a friendly way. There are lots of

threads here where the participants constantly banter and exchange

sarcastic remarks -- I get that. But on the other

hand (I was going to use OTOH just to confuse you ), I

also think it's usually clear when someone is being nasty or snide or

intentionally hurtful and then hiding behind the "What? I was just joking!" excuse. We may make some mistakes in judging that type of thing, but

I'm sure people will set us straight if/when we do!

 

Thanks for all your constructive comments, everyone!

 

dcdeb

[dcdeb]

 

(I expect we'll see a bit less of now.... )

 

I use quite a bit, but I usually do it when the other people in the conversation know it's a joke.

 

Like:

 

"Sarie, are you going to the Paramore concert in April?"

"Duh.:mf_rosetinted:"

 

Yeah, and that's OK, really. Of course

we're not saying you can't use that smilie at all. If that's all

that someone reads into that guideline, they're missing the point.

I hope you don't really think we're sitting counting how many

and which different smilies each poster uses.

 

The point is that sarcasm is one thing, but it's not cool to

act innocent and pretend that an insult or a remark that

was meant to be hurtful was really a joke. If your underlying

intention was mean-spirited, the smilie doesn't erase that.

 

That's all I'm saying.

 

dcdeb

[Scut Monkey]

Do not hide behind saying your comment was meant as "a joke", or use the rose-colored glasses icon or white text to disguise a nasty remark. Just saying you didn't mean something as an insult doesn't make it any less of one.

 

The point is that sarcasm is one thing, but it's not cool to act innocent and pretend that an insult or a remark that

was meant to be hurtful was really a joke. If your underlying

intention was mean-spirited, the smilie doesn't erase that.

I have concerns about this rule. It applies well when a person had the intent to insult. But what happens if someone is offended by a statement that someone has made but it wasn't their intention to offend? Should they be punished anyway because the fact that it wasn't meant seriously doesn't reduce the hurt/offense that the other person felt? What happens if a person is misunderstood regularly? Does this become a "pattern of behaviour" that merits banning? Is it fair to punish someone for displaying a "pattern of behaviour" that they didn't intend? Or is keeping the forum running smoothly more important?

[Haley & Megan Meyer]

It is pretty great, isn't it? It's the people who make it!

 

About the thread you had deleted -- we understand that newbies aren't

going to know all the guidelines, so that's not really a big deal.

Don't worry.

 

 

 

It is very great. It's like a second family. We don't know what we did before the MFC.

 

About the thread we posted up that got deleted, we were newbies so we didn't know. At least we weren't leaking it or anything, just loving it.

 

MFC is fantastic! Wouldn't know what to do without it. 2007 was a great year because that is when we found Mika and the MFC. We know 2008 will be just as wonderful. We absolutley LOVE LOVE it here.

 

The Meyer Twins

[Oakie Doke]

But on the other

hand (I was going to use OTOH just to confuse you)

 

dcdeb

 

Awesome (well the other stuff you said, what I didn't quote)

 

This however .. OTOH ??? Otters track orange humans????

:roftl:

[Scut Monkey]

OTOH ??? Otters track orange humans????

Obsessive Talk Of Hair also does the trick.

[Kelzy]

I have concerns about this rule. It applies well when a person had the intent to insult. But what happens if someone is offended by a statement that someone has made but it wasn't their intention to offend? Should they be punished anyway because the fact that it wasn't meant seriously doesn't reduce the hurt/offense that the other person felt? What happens if a person is misunderstood regularly? Does this become a "pattern of behaviour" that merits banning? Is it fair to punish someone for displaying a "pattern of behaviour" that they didn't intend? Or is keeping the forum running smoothly more important?

 

I think the fact that it's a guideline rather than a rule will mean there will be occasions where that happens, and in that case it will be sorted out through numerous PM's with those concerned and if, after hearing both sides of the story, it becomes apparent the insulter did it deliberately to hurt the insulted, then an infraction would have to take place..

 

If the insulter really does display that they never meant to offend then it could be cleared up without much hassle..

 

For example: If I accidentally insulted you right now - and you told me so - would I feel bad? And, then, would I be more careful in future not to insult someone else in a similar way?

[RAK1]

Actually, most of us are fairly fond of chicken.

 

Girls will be girls, and frankly, this place is an estrogen-fest with a reasonably attractive young male at the centre of all the attention - at times things may be said that you might not hear in a nunnery. But I think most people are capable of judging where the line is - nothing overly explicit, obviously.

 

Like posting a random naked schlong in the Mikagasmic thread - that counts as "overly explicit." And yes, it's happened before.

 

 

 

LOL - that's fabulous coming from you, the cupcake of the MFC! It would be entertaining to see you cuss someone out.

 

(Disclaimer - outside the MFC, of course. I ain't encouraging you to go get yourself banned. )

 

Calling Mika only reasonably attractive must be classed as an insult surely! Instant infraction.LOL!

[Scut Monkey]

I think the fact that it's a guideline rather than a rule will mean there will be occasions where that happens, and in that case it will be sorted out through numerous PM's with those concerned and if, after hearing both sides of the story, it becomes apparent the insulter did it deliberately to hurt the insulted, then an infraction would have to take place..

 

If the insulter really does display that they never meant to offend then it could be cleared up without much hassle..

 

For example: If I accidentally insulted you right now - and you told me so - would I feel bad? And, then, would I be more careful in future not to insult someone else in a similar way?

My greater concern is with when a person is misunderstood more than once - what is a higher priority: the poster's real intention or keeping the forum running smoothly? After the recent temporary banning of several members with the reason of "a pattern of behaviour" that they were unaware of we were told that we'd be given guidelines that would make decision-making in such matters clearer. I unfortunately don't see how the new guidelines change anything.

[FREDDIESDOUBLE]

Mods thankyou.

 

I am sure this took a lot of careful consideration.

 

May I make one suggestion?

 

I think having a stated avenue of appeal or grievance procedure might also be helpful.

 

Im interested in this part , do you mean towards an MFC member or towards a mod/admin , or both ?

 

[greta]

[in theory] nothing is gonna change with these forum guidelines because the method seems the same: Accountability->a process of verifying the quality of decisions or actions after they have been taken=>A. implements some sort of punishment mechanism against individuals judged to have taken poor quality decisions or actions, after those decisions have been taken or actions carried out. Instead of Transparency-> requires decision making to be transparent right from the beginning of the decision making process=>T. encourages corrections and improvements to decisions to be made long before poor quality decisions have the chance to be enacted. Hence, radical transparency potentially helps avoid the need for punishment mechanisms. Radical transparency is a management method where nearly all decision making is carried out publicly. All draft documents, all arguments for and against a proposal, the decisions about the decision making process itself, and all final decisions, are made publicly and remain publicly archived. The only exceptions to full transparency include data related to personal security or passwords or keys necessary for physical access required to carry out publicly negotiated decisions. Any technical actions which are perceived to be controversial or political are considered to lack legitimacy until a clear, radically transparent decision has been made concerning them. The potential of radical transparency to allow corrections and improvements to decision making is likely to be higher when the decision making method is either a consensus decision making method or a democratic decision making method. However, even when the decision making method is authoritarian (unilateral), radical transparency may still encourage the decision maker to make better decisions. ok I've paraphrased a bit of my studies the moral of the story is: avoid pms if not for private chats{?}

[Kelzy]

My greater concern is with when a person is misunderstood more than once - what is a higher priority: the poster's real intention or keeping the forum running smoothly? After the recent temporary banning of several members with the reason of "a pattern of behaviour" that they were unaware of we were told that we'd be given guidelines that would make decision-making in such matters clearer. I unfortunately don't see how the new guidelines change anything..

(i edited to match your edit btw)

 

 

The posters real intention is important, and I think pattern of behaviour is the only means the mods have of identifying whether or not a person meant harm by what they said or not. Surely the mods are capable of realising when someone is just over-reacting to a post and recognising when someone's being over-sensitive of an opinion. And it really does depend on how that opinion is stated. It's one thing to write "I had a ****** crap birthday because I didn't get any ****** cake" or saying "My birthday was ok, but it would've been better if I got a cake" It's the same thing, but at least with the latter the individual takes into account that they are posting in public and that alot of people will read it.

 

I don't stand in a restaurant mouthing off opinions not caring if someone will get offended, so why do it here?

 

I think I read someone say that these guidelines will be more like a fresh start rather than an explanation of how things have been anyway. I agree, the guideline of "pattern of behaviour" concerns me too, but if someone doesn't learn from an infraction that certain things they are saying can be taken the wrong way then IMO they don't have it within themselves to consider others feelings on a public forum. MFC does not belong to one person. We all have to try to make it comfortable for each other.

 

Anyway, perhaps it should be called "Repetitive behaviour" rather than "Pattern of behaviour" since doing the same thing continuously is the real problem.

[Suzy]

I commend all who have contibuted to this and for all the members who also offer input. Although many might not agree this is perfect and our 100% guarantee of a solution, I'm happy that the process of getting here happened. We've reflected and continue to evaluate. We're improving. We're going in the right direction.

[FREDDIESDOUBLE]

Kelty I like your post

 

The mods and I without doubt have all made mistakes , but are only human and to be fair one thing we do on the MFC is listen .. and learn

 

Ive just looked at the ban list and out of the whole list there are only one or two that were regular posters , the rest are blantant spammers

 

The amount of effort to get these rules sorted was immense and it was done with all the comments of the MFC included

 

My biggest worry with using the is that someone can abuse it , an insult can be taken the wrong way by the reversing affect of using that ..

[Scut Monkey]

The posters real intention is important, and I think pattern of behaviour is the only means the mods have of identifying whether or not a person meant harm by what they said or not. Surely the mods are capable of realising when someone is just over-reacting to a post and recognising when someone's being over-sensitive of an opinion. And it really does depend on how that opinion is stated. It's one thing to write "I had a ****** crap birthday because I didn't get any ****** cake" or saying "My birthday was ok, but it would've been better if I got a cake" It's the same thing, but at least with the latter the individual takes into account that they are posting in public and that alot of people will read it.

 

I don't stand in a restaurant mouthing off opinions not caring if someone will get offended, so why do it here?

 

I think I read someone say that these guidelines will be more like a fresh start rather than an explanation of how things have been anyway. I agree, the guideline of "pattern of behaviour" concerns me too, but if someone doesn't learn from an infraction that certain things they are saying can be taken the wrong way then IMO they don't have it within themselves to consider others feelings on a public forum. MFC does not belong to one person. We all have to try to make it comfortable for each other.

 

Anyway, perhaps it should be called "Repetitive behaviour" rather than "Pattern of behaviour" since doing the same thing continuously is the real problem.

Your examples are extreme, I'm more interested in the grey in the middle. I'm not talking about saying "give me a f***ing garden salad" more like the difference between bluntly saying "I want a green garden salad and make it snappy, the last time I was here your service was unbelievably slow" and sweetly saying "I'd like to have a green garden salad, sir". The flipside of your statement: I don't change myself for people in a restaurant, so why do it here? I talk the same way on the MFC as I talk in real life, a tad sarcastically a tad cynically a tad bluntly - what if someone is offended when that's not my intention? Am I going to need to deliberately change who I am or stop posting all together (as some people have done after their bannings) to make it easier? I may view others as being over-sensitive whereas you may think it's "polite" - it's subjective. In the end I'll be the one not welcome here because you think I'm "disruptive" when it's not my intention to cause trouble - we merely have different arbitrary standards. It's not fair... but life isn't fair, is it? So I'll just have to conform to arbitrary subjective rules if I want to stay here...