PLEASE READ: Forum Guidelines

[Blue Sky]

I think if we do adopt some kind of review/appeal panel, it is not possible to have it 100% independent. A complete outsider might throw up their hands in despair at some of the stuff we write/argue about!! But someone who is experienced at this sort of job would be ideal.

 

BTW have you mods/admin seen the adminzone forum? It is a forum where administrators can go to ask how to run things better on their forums. Lots of interesting things there. Some of the forum admins have quite harsh rules compared to ours. And they have some ideas about VIP membership for people who donate...anyway lots of good stuff.

[Romis]

*cough!*

 

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=viewTaggedPhoto&friendID=72182571&imageUserID=41799551&imageID=20254221

 

 

haha never knew how does he look like...

 

It's OK if I say he looks like the REM frontman on the LIve Earth with that face painted in blue??

[Christine]

What you're calling "self-control" is one and the same thing: it's a member controlling their opinions to fit within what the MFC defines as acceptable (which may or may not be in line with what you personally feel is acceptable). And it's fine, as a private forum the MFC has every right to dictate its own rules and censor what it deems needs censoring.

 

I don't need to agree with it to live with it. If didn't I conform to guidelines that I disagree with I would have ended up in trouble a long time ago. I accept that I must do so if I want to participate in this forum.

 

I totally agree with that. My personal views on what is acceptable is irrelevant to what is or isn't acceptable on MFC.

 

If it was up to me, for instance, there would be no filter on swearwords. If we all agreed that it was just common decency to control yourself from swearing on a message board a filter wouldn't even be necessary. MFC has decided that it's not acceptable and we all have to live within those parameters.

 

The problem is not censorship. We do not have unfettered free speech here, nor should we. People need to let go of that idea because it's not applicable. This isn't a free country. It's a private message board.

 

The problems we've had in the past have come from the fact that the line between acceptable and unacceptable is constantly shifting back and forth and all the members are not clear on where the line is currently drawn at any given moment.

 

That's what the guidelines are for and I agree that we have to address the grey areas as best as we possibly can within the guidelines or we'll be right back where we started with no guidelines at all.

[Marilyn Mastin]

That's very clear. The rules are very good. Thank you, to all the mods, from me.

[nikjass]

Noted! However, I do agree with Blue Sky about an appeal process that's transparent. I'm not sure how this should be set up, but i'm sure there's a way of going around it. You folks are smart, I'm sure it'll work out. In any society there must be a system to ensure that everything runs smoothly, hence there are rules and regulations. As much as I hate rules and limitations, I'm all for order and organisation. I have to congratulate the Mods for coming up with this as quickly as possible. As it is in life I'm sure there will be changes to the rules as we go along. So long as it is fair, there shouldn't be a problem.

[lollipop_monkey]

My greater concern is with when a person is misunderstood more than once - what is a higher priority: the poster's real intention or keeping the forum running smoothly?

 

There has to be a balance between having a bit of self-control when posting, and other members not taking every comment made to heart. The vast majority of the time it amounts to a simple misunderstanding.

 

There have certainly been times where someone has PM'd one of us to complain about something someone has said - and after reviewing it, we've come back with "actually, I don't think they meant any harm, and this is why."

 

I feel a bit hounded out with the "don't use :mf_rosetinted:" guideline How about making a special apple rule, so we can use it in our one thread as we please and others can choose not to open that thread then?

 

To be clear - this isn't an outright ban on that smilie.

 

It's a suggestion that simply including that smiley doesn't provide immunity against mean spirited posts.

 

Keep in mind, people, that MFC has quite an intricate underlying culture. Take the phrase:

 

"French people are f*cking idiots. :mf_rosetinted:"

 

If someone were to post that in a gig report thread where there had been bitter conflict with French fans, we'd have to take that quite seriously.

 

On the other hand, if we were to see that comment in, say, the Apples' thread - maybe where some longtime Apple quoted something that Yoppapop had said about the French legal system or something - it would be interpreted differently.

 

So what it boils down to is thinking about why you're using the smilie - ask yourself, is my intent to be bitchy? Is it likely that this person doesn't know me well, and will think I'm attacking them - even if I'm only having a bit of fun? If so, then please think twice before posting.

 

Once again: where do we draw the line in defining things as subjective as "decency" and "courtesy" etc.? Let's not beat about the bush and act like it's rationalisable, just say it: it's "act like everyone else", simple as that....Only hit submit when you're sticking to everyone else's definitions of what's appropriate.

 

Hope you don't mind - I tacked your last comment onto your earlier post.

 

MFC is a moderated forum. There are ideas about what's appropriate and what's not - ideas that have been shaped since MFC's inception - what we're trying to do is make those guidelines clearer. There are many forums that are a complete free-for-all; MFC isn't one of them.

 

So considering that, yes, there is a certain degree of censorship. But what I don't like is the idea that we're a pack of exceptionally strict school matrons, running around with duct tape to shut up anyone who talks about anything that isn't roses and sunshine.

 

The thing about "decency" and "courtesy" is that instead of being some cage that people are ruthlessly forced into, it seems that around here the overwhelming majority of people conduct themselves in a way that conforms with these admittedly subjective standards. Is it asking too much for people to be reasonably friendly and avoid vicious attacks?

 

At the risk of pushing buttons, i dont think it should be you.

 

If serious enough (and he is open to doing it) - i think it should be dean.

 

He does not openly contribute to the mfc unless necessary and therefore as a bystander with the ability to look into things, an 'innocent' party might be more beneficial.

 

If there is some avenue of appeal created outside the mod team, I don't think it should be one person - I think it should be three people. I'm so not into the idea that one person can call all the shots.

[Kelzy]

My personal views have no bearing on how the MFC is run: it's a privately-run forum and therefore has the right to set whatever guidelines or rules that it pleases. It has every right to say to me: if you're not happy with it you can leave.

 

I am personally completely against censorship, I'm pro people saying exactly what's on their mind and others accepting that the definition of "acceptable" and "insensitive" is arbitrary and subjective and therefore won't take offense. But that's my ideal and not the MFC's.

 

Why are we treating "censorship" like it's a dirty word to be avoided? This is a private forum which has the right to set its own guidelines which if you wish to participate you must adhere to. One of the guidelines that it has set is that this forum is moderated. Moderation is inherently a form of censorship because it involves drawing lines and any line inherently limits freedom of speech. Any absence of absolute freedom of speech = censorship. What you're calling "self-control" is one and the same thing: it's a member controlling their opinions to fit within what the MFC defines as acceptable (which may or may not be in line with what you personally feel is acceptable). And it's fine, as a private forum the MFC has every right to dictate its own rules and censor what it deems needs censoring.

 

I don't need to agree with it to live with it. If didn't I conform to guidelines that I disagree with I would have ended up in trouble a long time ago. I accept that I must do so if I want to participate in this forum. It's not fair but hey it's reality.

 

What'll happen when/if we become official, though, is a different matter. That's why I've been putting off my decision of whether I want to continue participating the MFC or not until after we become official (if ever)... the whole dynamic of the place may change.

Well, I'd just never bothered to look into the other actions that can be classed as censorship nowadays. But ok, it appears that's how it goes in this over-analyzed world. So, I'm not completely against censorship if having self-control is classed as censorship. I think more people need to pull their head in occasionally and zip their big gob and keep their opinions to themselves.

 

I don't want to come here and read "Irish people are stupid" or "Females have no brains".. not that I've seen that, because I wouldn't have stayed as long as I have if posts like that were made and not dealt with.

I don't like censorship where an individual has no right to express an opinion that, generally speaking, doesn't hurt or offend. But when it comes to racist, sexist and derogatory remarks, where it's probable that more than 50% of those reading it will be offended then I have to say "woooo censorship". It's one thing to express it in private, there's nothing I can actively do about that, but to post it on a public forum for a large amount of people to read and be offended by is something I don't want to be exposed to.

 

And I don't want my niece exposed to it either.

 

So I agree with censorship/self-control on the MFC when it comes to posts/opinions that can easily offend people that aren't as desensitised as others. And I think it is entirely fair.

[Scut Monkey]

I don't like is the idea that we're a pack of exceptionally strict school matrons, running around with duct tape to shut up anyone who talks about anything that isn't roses and sunshine.

Trust me, I've seen forums with guidelines far stricter than the ones in this thread: things like if you post off-topic you get warned three times then you're out or ban all forms of 'adult' concepts. But that's why I never joined those forums - they were too restrictive IMO. The MFC is also restrictive but it's at a level that I can deal with.

 

I will say though that the censorship isn't just about mods - it's also via the MFC culture. For example recently when several people expressed their dissatisfaction with a particular event there was pressure applied for them to be "roses and sunshine", to quote you. It wasn't until later when these people's opinions were supported by an outside source did the "be happy" admonitions decrease. Another example is the "We Don't Care" culture. There are indirect forms of censorship built into the MFC culture. Some things just don't go down well here, that's just how it is.

[dcdeb]

 

I tell ya I might as well have a chicken change

 

It took me 5 re-readings to decipher that.

 

That's OK... I read it the first three times as "might as well

have a chicken in charge." And I thought, "just what is he

trying to say? Is he calling me a chicken?"

 

haha never knew how does he look like...

 

Oh, that was a surprise! That took me to my own myspace!

Sorry Fred!

 

The thing about "decency" and "courtesy" is that instead of being some cage that people are ruthlessly forced into, it seems that around here the overwhelming majority of people conduct themselves in a way that conforms with these admittedly subjective standards. Is it asking too much for people to be reasonably friendly and avoid vicious attacks?

 

That's a rhetorical question, right, Mana? You don't really need me to

answer, do you?

 

If there is some avenue of appeal created outside the mod team, I don't think it should be one person - I think it should be three people. I'm so not into the idea that one person can call all the shots.

 

I would tend to agree -- that level of responsibility would be a huge

burden on just one person. Plus the situation could arise where that

one person was the person a member had a grievance against. (Ooh,

grievance -- I feel like an attorney now...) But you get what I mean.

 

Unless, of course, our whole structure changes with "official" status...

then I guess there may well be one person who is the ultimate decision-maker.

*shrugs*

 

dcdeb

[FREDDIESDOUBLE]

Your all correct on the official I really really hope to have an update mega soon

[Scut Monkey]

That's OK... I read it the first three times as "might as well

have a chicken in charge." And I thought, "just what is he

trying to say? Is he calling me a chicken?"

I think I like that interpretation better.

 

Unless, of course, our whole structure changes with "official" status...

then I guess there may well be one person who is the ultimate decision-maker.

*shrugs*

That's a scary concept. It's debatable enough as it is with a multi-cultural multi-timezone-al multi-age-group-al team let alone with one person.

 

 

(Before anyone remarks on the fact that they're not real words: I know...)

[happikali]

Well, I'd just never bothered to look into the other actions that can be classed as censorship nowadays. But ok, it appears that's how it goes in this over-analyzed world. So, I'm not completely against censorship if having self-control is classed as censorship. I think more people need to pull their head in occasionally and zip their big gob and keep their opinions to themselves.

 

I don't want to come here and read "Irish people are stupid" or "Females have no brains".. not that I've seen that, because I wouldn't have stayed as long as I have if posts like that were made and not dealt with.

I don't like censorship where an individual has no right to express an opinion that, generally speaking, doesn't hurt or offend. But when it comes to racist, sexist and derogatory remarks, where it's probable that more than 50% of those reading it will be offended then I have to say "woooo censorship". It's one thing to express it in private, there's nothing I can actively do about that, but to post it on a public forum for a large amount of people to read and be offended by is something I don't want to be exposed to.

 

And I don't want my niece exposed to it either.

 

So I agree with censorship/self-control on the MFC when it comes to posts/opinions that can easily offend people that aren't as desensitised as others. And I think it is entirely fair.

Yes ...... as a Mama ...... I agree .....

[Kelzy]

Yes ...... as a Mama ...... I agree .....

Yeah, exactly. I think alot of people forget this is an all-ages forum at times. Well, I'm only an Aunty, sadly kids aren't a real possibility for me, but I've had a vital and extremely influential role in my nieces up-bringing. Maybe I'm over-protective because of that. I just think we need to not only consider who reads our posts, but what ages are reading them and how easily influenced they may be. It's not that we're a baby-sitters club, I don't come here to be a mother-figure to anyone, but the reality is: if you are over 18, in their eyes, you could be classed as a role model whether you like it or not. You don't have to comply to anything, just be aware of it.

[happikali]

Yeah, exactly. I think alot of people forget this is an all-ages forum at times. Well, I'm only an Aunty, sadly kids aren't a real possibility for me, but I've had a vital and extremely influential role in my nieces up-bringing. Maybe I'm over-protective because of that. I just think we need to not only consider who reads our posts, but what ages are reading them and how easily influenced they may be. It's not that we're a baby-sitters club, I don't come here to be a mother-figure to anyone, but the reality is: if you are over 18, in their eyes, you could be classed as a role model whether you like it or not. You don't have to comply to anything, just be aware of it.

YUP !! Agree !!!

[AKateisaKate]

Fabulous, Thank you! Will keep in mind. This place is so big, it,s hard to remember that anyone can look at any thread, so I'm glad we have guidelines for all of it!

[robertina]

thanks to all the staff for the hard work you are doing, these guidelines (as the FAQ) are the proof that you really care for this place and want it to improve day by day.

you all do this work on a voluntary basis, no profit from it, so it's more than precious.

and all the discussing i can read in this thread is another proof that WE ALL care for this place. This is so warming, you see, cause i had the feeling that lots of ppl didn't like this place anymore after the london gigs.

 

i love the idea that we can improve and make this place the best MIKA fan club all over the net.

[TheBlackQueen]

thanks to all the staff for the hard work you are doing, these guidelines (as the FAQ) are the proof that you really care for this place and want it to improve day by day.

you all do this work on a voluntary basis, no profit from it, so it's more than precious.

and all the discussing i can read in this thread is another proof that WE ALL care for this place. This is so warming, you see, cause i had the feeling that lots of ppl didn't like this place anymore after the london gigs.

 

i love the idea that we can improve and make this place the best MIKA fan club all over the net.

 

Hi Robi:huglove:!! Amen to all you said, you just wrote what was in my mind while reading through the thread:thumb_yello:

[robertina]

Hi Robi:huglove:!! Amen to all you said, you just wrote what was in my mind while reading through the thread:thumb_yello:

 

Hola Asun! ciao!

i can see it's not always sunshine and roses...but after the storm we need to see the sun again!

[TheBlackQueen]

Hola Asun! ciao!

i can see it's not always sunshine and roses...but after the storm we need to see the sun again!

 

You speak wisely again, Robi, as usual. And I think I start to see that sun in the horizon!

[mamacatt]

 

That's a scary concept. It's debatable enough as it is with a multi-cultural multi-timezone-al multi-age-group-al team let alone with one person.

 

 

(Before anyone remarks on the fact that they're not real words: I know...)

 

Shows just what an incredibly wide group Mika and his musique appeal to!

[mamacatt]

thanks to all the staff for the hard work you are doing, these guidelines (as the FAQ) are the proof that you really care for this place and want it to improve day by day.

you all do this work on a voluntary basis, no profit from it, so it's more than precious.

and all the discussing i can read in this thread is another proof that WE ALL care for this place. This is so warming, you see, cause i had the feeling that lots of ppl didn't like this place anymore after the london gigs.

 

i love the idea that we can improve and make this place the best MIKA fan club all over the net.

 

Robi, well said!

I have never belonged to a chat room or virtual fan club before. I have found that the MFC is an awesome place filled with all sorts of interesting people, many so kind and thoughtful, like yourself, others with a wonderful sense of humour. I treasure the friendships made at the MFC, and hope that one day I will get to meet these friends "in the flesh"!

The mods/admins certainly deserve a pat on the back for all they do to guide us along and make this Mika experience a great one! Kudos to you all!

[leonita]

Robi, well said!

I have never belonged to a chat room or virtual fan club before. I have found that the MFC is an awesome place filled with all sorts of interesting people, many so kind and thoughtful, like yourself, others with a wonderful sense of humour. I treasure the friendships made at the MFC, and hope that one day I will get to meet these friends "in the flesh"!

The mods/admins certainly deserve a pat on the back for all they do to guide us along and make this Mika experience a great one! Kudos to you all!

 

I would like to second that emotion...

merci beaucoup!

Thank you very much everyone!!

Leona

[sunshine931]

Thank you Debs for taking the time to write this. All I wish is for everyone to have en enjoyable forum experience and you're right, this is all common courtesy and common sense.

 

[A. Clay]

RIGHT ON! . . . I guess, . . . seems terribly tedious . . .

[Wendi]

RIGHT ON! . . . I guess, . . . seems terribly tedious . . .

 

I think it has to cover a lot of points, so people know exactly where

they stand - and for the smooth running of the forum, as much as

possible