82, rue des Martyrs (Karen) - Discussion

[camille*]

Maybe I would feel differently about Karen if I could understand the nuances of French but I just think it's not my kind of song. There always seems to be too many syllables crammed into these French songs (I find the French version of Grace Kelly unbearable in that respect). It works with Elle Me Dit because the tempo matches but with GK and Karen there is just too much going on for the melody.

 

Well it's true that we always have the impression here that English sentences (or even words) are shorter and very 'condensed', which particularly suit pop songs.

 

I don't particularly like French GK; I love that he decided to do a French version but the result is nothing compared to the English one. I was even disappointed that he sang half of it in French in one of the gigs I attended

 

To go back on topic with Karen, I think you may feel like this because it's a story; for French speakers every word he sings is important and beautiful and it kind of builds up in the lyrics but maybe not in the melody.. I don't know how to explain but for me it really is a beautiful song. The nuances in Mika's voice are

[Christine]

To go back on topic with Karen, I think you may feel like this because it's a story; for French speakers every word he sings is important and beautiful and it kind of builds up in the lyrics but maybe not in the melody.. I don't know how to explain but for me it really is a beautiful song.

 

That's what I got from Toy Boy when I first heard it so I know what you mean.

[camille*]

That's what I got from Toy Boy when I first heard it so I know what you mean.

 

I would put Karen in the same category of Mika songs as Toy Boy. They are real treasures to me, masterpieces almost

(OK I need to get away from this thread because I'm fangurling even more at every new post )

[Christine]

I would put Karen in the same category of Mika songs as Toy Boy. They are real treasures to me, masterpieces almost

(OK I need to get away from this thread because I'm fangurling even more at every new post )

 

I would say GK and Toy Boy are masterpieces.

 

You know this thing about the syllables and English being more concise...what about a song like Les Champs-Élysées? Those lyrics match the tempo of the song perfectly. I don't think this is something that should vary depending on the language. Doesn't poetry (lyrics) call for conciseness in any language especially if it's confined to a melody?

[Christine]

Does anyone know what the final version of the lyrics are? They should be in the first post.

[camille*]

I would say GK and Toy Boy are masterpieces.

 

You know this thing about the syllables and English being more concise...what about a song like Les Champs-Élysées? Those lyrics match the tempo of the song perfectly. I don't think this is something that should vary depending on the language. Doesn't poetry (lyrics) call for conciseness in any language especially if it's confined to a melody?

 

Ah that's a good question and I don't know how to answer this at the moment

I think what we call 'chanson française' (and I would include for example Barbara or Aznavour in there) is very much centred on the lyrics and it's the melody that has to 'follow' what the singer is telling.. So lyrics don't have to be concise, they are the core of the song.

I don't think Les Champs Elysées is of this calibre; it's popular music. That's why I remember I said somewhere in this thread that I think with Karen, Mika tried to create a real 'French song'

 

Does anyone know what the final version of the lyrics are? They should be in the first post.

 

I can write them down if needed

[Christine]

I don't think Les Champs Elysées is of this calibre; it's popular music. That's why I remember I said somewhere in this thread that I think with Karen, Mika tried to create a real 'French song'

 

Ah yes I remember you saying that. Doesn't explain the GK lyrics though.

 

I just hope the majority of Mika's album is pop in nature. If I wanted to hear cabaret I would go to the theatre. It's not what I'm looking for in a pop concert.

 

It could work well for an acoustic tour though like the Songs for Sorrow did.

[camille*]

I just hope the majority of Mika's album is pop in nature. If I wanted to hear cabaret I would go to the theatre. It's not what I'm looking for in a pop concert.

 

Oh yes please I hope so too.. I love Karen but it's a special song and it doesn't have to be all the songs going that way. I also love Elle Me Dit so that shows how 'flexible' we are (and how talented and eclectic Mika is)

[Christine]

I also love Elle Me Dit so that shows how 'flexible' we are (and how talented and eclectic Mika is)

 

Yes I like that eclecticism because I get bored easily. I don't like Coldplay because I've heard it all before. Not only 10 years ago when Coldplay did it, but 20 years ago when U2 did it.

[suzie]

I think I need to re-listen to HMDYLM cause I never liked it.... I thought it has no structure...

HMDYLM is a really catchy song with classic pop song strucrure actually I thought he'd use it one day. its style actually reminds me of Wham! songs, particularly Freesom, especially because of the do do...do do do's

[camille*]

Yes I like that eclecticism because I get bored easily. I don't like Coldplay because I've heard it all before. Not only 10 years ago when Coldplay did it, but 20 years ago when U2 did it.

 

I like Coldplay very much (and will see them live for the first time this year) but I just like listening to their songs in the background, and singing along.. (and I admit a lot of their songs sound like each other, but it can also be reassuring) I'm not passionate about their music like Mika's. In fact I've never been so passionate about anything apart from Mika

[mari62]

I love this song too I always have a special feeling when I listen to it, the melody, lyrics, the way Mika pronounces some words just kill me. Especially the beginning of the Compiègne version ('Elle voudrait une vie meilleure que ses frères et ses soeurs qui sont rentrés dans les rangs' this particular line sounds 'delicious' to me )

I hope it will not change too much on the recorded version.

I don't particularly like French GK; I love that he decided to do a French version but the result is nothing compared to the English one. I was even disappointed that he sang half of it in French in one of the gigs I attended

 

To go back on topic with Karen, I think you may feel like this because it's a story; for French speakers every word he sings is important and beautiful and it kind of builds up in the lyrics but maybe not in the melody.. I don't know how to explain but for me it really is a beautiful song. The nuances in Mika's voice are

yes, exactly, a part his voice, I love the way he emphasizes certain words, and some lines really move me.

 

GK half in English half in French is horrible

 

I would put Karen in the same category of Mika songs as Toy Boy. They are real treasures to me, masterpieces almost

(OK I need to get away from this thread because I'm fangurling even more at every new post )

i don't mind that

I love the way you talk about the song and Mika

[Christine]

I'm not passionate about their music like Mika's. In fact I've never been so passionate about anything apart from Mika

 

Awww!!

 

I'm very obsessive although I haven't been this interested in a singer since George Michael in the 80s. But even that was different I think and Mika has been more like my 14-year-old obsession with Rick Springfield.

 

I'm over it though.

[camille*]

yes, exactly, a part his voice, I love the way he emphasizes certain words, and some lines really move me.

 

GK half in English half in French is horrible

 

i don't mind that

I love the way you talk about the song and Mika

 

Oh that's really nice.. I shall go on then; I've got plenty to say about Mika and this song (totally agree with you about the emphasis on some words by the way)

 

Awww!!

 

I'm very obsessive although I haven't been this interested in a singer since George Michael in the 80s. But even that was different I think and Mika has been more like my 14-year-old obsession with Rick Springfield.

 

I'm over it though.

 

Oh yes you're completely over it (So am I obviously)

 

I've never been a fan before and used to make fun of people around me who were fans of different bands I just couldn't imagine what it was like to find someone/some music that really match with you.

 

I'm also passionate about languages (English as you may have noticed ) but it's not really something we can fangurl on

[Louiza]

I love this song too I always have a special feeling when I listen to it, the melody, lyrics, the way Mika pronounces some words just kill me. Especially the beginning of the Compiègne version ('Elle voudrait une vie meilleure que ses frères et ses soeurs qui sont rentrés dans les rangs' this particular line sounds 'delicious' to me )

I hope it will not change too much on the recorded version.

 

I know what you mean, he's an amazing storyteller!!! I always get goosebumps when he sings the lyrics you quoted and also these ones "Elle vit chez sa mère juste à deux rues du 82, Un jour l'amour est venu, Il a frappé à sa porte, Elle a crié qu'il sorte moi j'ouvre pas aux inconnus":wub2:

 

Agree and hearing Karen in a small theatre and Mika at the piano :swoon: may be moving at the same time exciting

 

that will be beyond brilliant:wub2: now you make me dream of those theatre gigs even more

[suzie]

Well it's true that we always have the impression here that English sentences (or even words) are shorter and very 'condensed', which particularly suit pop songs.

....

To go back on topic with Karen, I think you may feel like this because it's a story; for French speakers every word he sings is important and beautiful and it kind of builds up in the lyrics but maybe not in the melody.. I don't know how to explain but for me it really is a beautiful song. The nuances in Mika's voice are

I wanted to quote you, Camille, as you have pointed out this song’s uniqueness in style within Mika’s current portfolio. The song (in the verses) is following the rhythm of French language, rather than those of English. Basically, the melody it is most likely to have been written based on the lyrics rather than most of his other, Anglo-Saxon type of pop compositions that are built on the chords and lyrics are subordinate to the melody so that they rhyme ...etc.

I believe that by definition, no Mika fan has problems accepting Mika’s ‘eclectic’ portfolio, especially since in this case, the chorus already leaves this French style behind and hence its appeal to most. Also, we probably all get that Mika was trying to create a French chanson (something that originates in the storytelling culture of French café /theatres/ music halls rather than in British pop culture), and also appreciate the effort. To me and some others, too, the version of the end product was not persuasive enough in the way we heard it last summer but it can certainly be polished in the final arrangement.

Concerning the language issue, I think for someone who does not speak a language a song is in, it is important that the music either appeals to you enough for you not to need to pay attention to not understanding the words or you’d have to understand the lyrics through the music. Very few songs can achieve the latter. The first one that comes to my mind is Edith Piaf’s La Foule – the rhythm of the song (waltz), the instruments and the way she performs the song actually give you a very clear idea about the setting of the story as well as the story itself, so there is no problem in ‘understanding’ that one right away.

 

I love the way he emphasizes certain words, and some lines really move me.

This is the reason why many French speakers who may have never heard of or liked Mika could totally embrace this song once it is released.

[mer]

I wanted to quote you, Camille, as you have pointed out this song’s uniqueness in style within Mika’s current portfolio. The song (in the verses) is following the rhythm of French language, rather than those of English. Basically, the melody it is most likely to have been written based on the lyrics rather than most of his other, Anglo-Saxon type of pop compositions that are built on the chords and lyrics are subordinate to the melody so that they rhyme ...etc.

I believe that by definition, no Mika fan has problems accepting Mika’s ‘eclectic’ portfolio, especially since in this case, the chorus already leaves this French style behind and hence its appeal to most. Also, we probably all get that Mika was trying to create a French chanson (something that originates in the storytelling culture of French café /theatres/ music halls rather than in British pop culture), and also appreciate the effort. To me and some others, too, the version of the end product was not persuasive enough in the way we heard it last summer but it can certainly be polished in the final arrangement.

Concerning the language issue, I think for someone who does not speak a language a song is in, it is important that the music either appeals to you enough for you not to need to pay attention to not understanding the words or you’d have to understand the lyrics through the music. Very few songs can achieve the latter. The first one that comes to my mind is Edith Piaf’s La Foule – the rhythm of the song (waltz), the instruments and the way she performs the song actually give you a very clear idea about the setting of the story as well as the story itself, so there is no problem in ‘understanding’ that one right away.

 

 

This is the reason why many French speakers who may have never heard of or liked Mika could totally embrace this song once it is released.

Edited February 2, 2012 by mer

[cathouzouf]

I know what you mean, he's an amazing storyteller!!! I always get goosebumps when he sings the lyrics you quoted and also these ones "Elle vit chez sa mère juste à deux rues du 82, Un jour l'amour est venu, Il a frappé à sa porte, Elle a crié qu'il sorte moi j'ouvre pas aux inconnus"

 

 

 

that will be beyond brilliant:wub2: now you make me dream of those theatre gigs even more

 

That's my favorite part of te song as well:wub2:

[basicamenteyo]

 

I adore HMDYLM (it's esctatic) (but I don't want it on TOOL:mf_rosetinted: )

 

but I don't have any problems with someone not liking it

 

just a q.... what's the thing with the "structure"??

 

I mean you only like songs that have "verse, chorus, verse, chorus, verse, chorus or sth like that?

 

I know people need to have a "full figure" of sth , it feels good for them...I guess I also need to have sth like a "full figure" for me...although I must say I love sth like "chaotic surrounding" whatever it means....

 

but personally I never felt any of Mika's songs didn't have that "full figure" (and I don't mean "they're obvious and perfectly understable" I mean sth like "sth HUGE is missing here-sure some demos sounded more like ideas sometimes...BUT..)

 

sorry, it´s hard to explain in English for me... By structure I mean... erm... like... after listening to the song 5 times, when it´s played again I still can´t follow the lines... erm... whoa, I give up... I don´t know how to explain it. There are really few Mika´s songs I don´t like, but this one is one of them. Don´t ask me why, cause I can´t explain it, the same way I can´t explain why I like Karen so much even if I can´t speak French.

 

I would agree totally with Christine's point. HMDYLM just sums up the whole 'early' Mika experience. Taken out of context it probably doesn't really stand up and I don't think he will ever record it.

 

Then that´s why this song says nothing to me...

[crazyaboutmika]

I really love Karen too

Such a sad and beautiful song

If I listen to Karen too much , I feel like crying because it is so moving

Underwater always soothes me , no matter how many times I listen to it on repeat, although it is a nostalgic song as well in my opinion.

[crazyaboutmika]

I wanted to quote you, Camille, as you have pointed out this song’s uniqueness in style within Mika’s current portfolio. The song (in the verses) is following the rhythm of French language, rather than those of English. Basically, the melody it is most likely to have been written based on the lyrics rather than most of his other, Anglo-Saxon type of pop compositions that are built on the chords and lyrics are subordinate to the melody so that they rhyme ...etc.

I believe that by definition, no Mika fan has problems accepting Mika’s ‘eclectic’ portfolio, especially since in this case, the chorus already leaves this French style behind and hence its appeal to most. Also, we probably all get that Mika was trying to create a French chanson (something that originates in the storytelling culture of French café /theatres/ music halls rather than in British pop culture), and also appreciate the effort. To me and some others, too, the version of the end product was not persuasive enough in the way we heard it last summer but it can certainly be polished in the final arrangement.

Concerning the language issue, I think for someone who does not speak a language a song is in, it is important that the music either appeals to you enough for you not to need to pay attention to not understanding the words or you’d have to understand the lyrics through the music. Very few songs can achieve the latter. The first one that comes to my mind is Edith Piaf’s La Foule – the rhythm of the song (waltz), the instruments and the way she performs the song actually give you a very clear idea about the setting of the story as well as the story itself, so there is no problem in ‘understanding’ that one right away.

 

 

This is the reason why many French speakers who may have never heard of or liked Mika could totally embrace this song once it is released.

 

 

Aww! I love that Mika pic Mer

Thank you for sharing sweetie

[mamiam]

I can't count all the times I've watched this video on youtube -

It's totally breathtaking - and I'm deeply in love with it !!!

And I really do wish that it will be a track on MIKA's upcoming album, and that he'll perform it on his new tour - then I'll be on cloud nine ...

 

Love,love

mb

[Ellenowl]

I really like hmdylm, it just sounds so mikaish. Whilst I want new material on the new album, hmdylm would be good. A bit like 'l'm falling' and ' I see you', there is a lot of room to make it better. I think the new album will be less typically mikaish so hmdylm would be a great addition.

[Melisanda]

I said "I don't want hmdylm on tool" only and only for "economical" reasons... economical and egoistic... = I already know this song so I want place/space for new -and there is not endless space on the album....(but really I'm only open for his proposition/decision-it's Mika's album, should express him )

[Dreamy_Queen]

I said "I don't want hmdylm on tool" only and only for "economical" reasons... economical and egoistic... = I already know this song so I want place/space for new -and there is not endless space on the album....(but really I'm only open for his proposition/decision-it's Mika's album, should express him )

 

You're cool