82, rue des Martyrs (Karen) - Discussion

[Ellenowl]

Sorry Melisanda, I was just expressing my opinion. Whilst I agree with you that because there is not 'infinite space' on the album, he should have new material, I do not feel like I really know hmdylm yet. It is still to be explored.

 

Anyway, hopefully, we can all stop speculating soon because TOOL will come out. There had better be some pretty awesome stuff after this long wait. Tbh though I would love it even if it was terrible. It won't be terrible though, it's mika we're talking about here!

[Melisanda]

Sorry Melisanda, I was just expressing my opinion. Whilst I agree with you that because there is not 'infinite space' on the album, he should have new material, I do not feel like I really know hmdylm yet. It is still to be explored.

 

Anyway, hopefully, we can all stop speculating soon because TOOL will come out. There had better be some pretty awesome stuff after this long wait. Tbh though I would love it even if it was terrible. It won't be terrible though, it's mika we're talking about here!

 

 

 

why are you sorry?? I'm all for "expressing opinions" (especially in the form I appreciate) so you expressed and I expressed - everything is fiiiineee

[Melisanda]

You're cool

 

 

hahhahaa...thanks!!! kissesxxxxx

[astor]

Sorry Melisanda, I was just expressing my opinion. Whilst I agree with you that because there is not 'infinite space' on the album, he should have new material, I do not feel like I really know hmdylm yet. It is still to be explored.

 

Anyway, hopefully, we can all stop speculating soon because TOOL will come out. There had better be some pretty awesome stuff after this long wait. Tbh though I would love it even if it was terrible. It won't be terrible though, it's mika we're talking about here!

You'd love it even if it was terrible?

Edited February 6, 2012 by astor

[Ellenowl]

You might want to re-listen then It is not the melody itself though, but a ‘riff’. It was used already in one particular remix of Rain that Mika played on the Imaginarium tour, so that’s almost like his.

I doubt he will use it on the album though, it is really a direct take. Or he can credit Coldplay or whoever they stole it from as they were actually sued for stealing it from someone else.

 

Yes, it does have the same dum-dum-dum-da-dum-dum-da-dum-dum ( can't believe I just typed that out!) rhythm. It is just a rhythm though and is likely to have nothing to do with coldplay. Seriously, I've just been listening to the new olly murs album, and all of the songs sound like others, although it's not credited. Olly murs certainly isn't bad, Mika is just so much better.

 

People’s expectations and musical tastes are different. I personally consider EMD as a ‘better crafted’ song than this one.EMD is kind of silly but perfect for 12-16 year olds.

82 RdM would be more to my taste and I like the verses but the way the chorus is building up sounds awkward to me and in my view, it doesn’t really match the verses. And then there is the Coldplay bit of course, that doesn't even seem to be an integral part of the song. All in all, it is not what I’d call a masterpiece in this form. He may have changed it during recording and arranging though, so let’s see what comes out of it on the record.

 

Yep! Agree with u there. As a teenager, I can verify that elle me dit is very catchy. I just prefer Karen.

[Ellenowl]

Oops! Sorry Suzy , I seem to have accidentally merged part of mmy post in to yours. The paragraph with the 'dums' in!

[mer]

i actually quite love this song:teehee:

The lyrics in french sound a bit odd for mika... he write really better in english, but the essential of the song REALLY sounds like him:wub2:

im in love:fangurl:

i like the campion´s Eliseos too . I lost moving pictures thread

where is this thread now.....http://www.youtube.com/embed/tZAifAECQ6s

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/tZAifAECQ6s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Edited February 10, 2012 by mer

[suzie]

Oops! Sorry Suzy , I seem to have accidentally merged part of mmy post in to yours. The paragraph with the 'dums' in!

Never mind.. I was wondering what happened to me writing "dum-dum-dum-da" Anyway, I can hear that in the melody (the piano is playing it) but I don't want to overdiscuss this topic as I am almost certain this bit won't feature in the recorded version that may turn out to be completely different. (In fact, had I heard that riff on the album, I would discuss most of it off-MFC with my friends as it is not within the realm of artistic freedom to take bits from other songs without crediting the original composer. So, while no one pays attention to taking small riffs like this one in live performances, it would be treated differently if recorded.)

 

I think the new album will be less typically mikaish so hmdylm would be a great addition.

oh, I like your way of thinking. So a bit of 'old' Mika to feature on the album just in case the listener will be missing that...

I actually think Elle Me Dit is also pretty much 'old Mika' in terms of the theme it covers and to be honest, I can't see it used as an integral part of the album with neither English nor French lyrics even though I know it / they will be there.

 

 

i actually quite love this song:teehee:

The lyrics in french sound a bit odd for mika... he write really better in english, but the essential of the song REALLY sounds like him:wub2:

 

The lyrics come more from Doriand, don't they? I checked a French publishing site earlier and he seems to be a lyricist mainly, not a composer. (A slight contradiction is that BIOTW was apparently written by the two of them and Mika didn't really need a lyricist for that one.) Is Doriand well-known in France?

Edited February 14, 2012 by suzie

[tiibet]

The lyrics come more from Doriand, don't they? I checked a French publishing site earlier and he seems to be a lyricist mainly, not a composer. (A slight contradiction is that BIOTW was apparently written by the two of them and Mika didn't really need a lyricist for that one.) Is Doriand well-known in France?

 

The lyrics are written by Doriand? I kind of assumed him being a part of it, but I'm absolutely too lazy to check things like that Though I don't have any idea if Mika's skills are good enough to write lyrics in French.

 

About borrowing from other artists/crediting them. Surely producers or people working for his record company take care of the limits for the recorded versions? Artists/song writers can be a bit of blind for things like that (being so close to the song), but I believe people working around them consider those issues carefully and I'm not worried about it, only curious

to hear the recorded version for this song! Sometimes the early raw version is simpler and more beautiful than the final version (for example I'm falling vs. I See You), but in this case I expect the song getting just better, so can't wait to hear it.

[suzie]

Surely producers or people working for his record company take care of the limits for the recorded versions?

Yes, surely, that's why I am certain it won't be recorded. Someone with a standard sense for music would point it out to him. Many of us heard it right away, one needn't be trained to recognise similarities.

It often does escape "producer's ears" though, so then you have lawsuits or are forced to credit others at a later stage.

 

That's something everyone in the business is aware of though, and 'some' have burnt themselves a bit already, so I'm only stating to explain some background in case anyone is interested, irrelevant of the topic of this thread, so all consider this off-topic, please.

 

 

 

The lyrics are written by Doriand? I kind of assumed him being a part of it, but I'm absolutely too lazy to check things like that

No, Doriland is credited as a lyricist on some other songs he has been working on. I found some French songs where he is credited as a lyricist and someone else is credited as a composer. So that's why I asked the French members if he is a lyricist mainly. (Ultimately, anyone can find more info, I spent less than 3 minutes on it ).

 

It used to be music and lyrics credited separately on songs (e.g. music Elton John, Lyrics by Bernie Taupin) but nowadays I can see it is 'composer' only.

 

For Karen, though, it totally sounds like the melody of the verses were written to the lyrics (whoever wrote those) as they follow the flow of the language - that's not typical of Mika songs.

Edited February 14, 2012 by suzie

[Miss.roxy]

Hello!

 

I don´t know where esle to post it, I just kind of covered Mika´s Karen song.. here you go

 

[YOUTUBE]QLOgEWUWhWw[/YOUTUBE]

[cathouzouf]

Yes, surely, that's why I am certain it won't be recorded. Someone with a standard sense for music would point it out to him. Many of us heard it right away, one needn't be trained to recognise similarities.

It often does escape "producer's ears" though, so then you have lawsuits or are forced to credit others at a later stage.

 

That's something everyone in the business is aware of though, and 'some' have burnt themselves a bit already, so I'm only stating to explain some background in case anyone is interested, irrelevant of the topic of this thread, so all consider this off-topic, please.

 

 

 

 

No, Doriland is credited as a lyricist on some other songs he has been working on. I found some French songs where he is credited as a lyricist and someone else is credited as a composer. So that's why I asked the French members if he is a lyricist mainly.

It used to be music and lyrics credited separately on songs (e.g. music Elton John, Lyrics by Bernie Taupin) but nowadays I can see it is 'composer' only.

 

Doriand is a lyricist and composer. I think he is well known in France for that. less known for his own work. So who knows who did what:dunno: But there are some sentences that doesn't seem like natural-flowing French si I always thought Mika was behind it:wink2:

[suzie]

there are some sentences that doesn't seem like natural-flowing French si I always thought Mika was behind it:wink2:

Even in Karen? I thought that was only in EMD.

So, out of curiosity, are these parts in the verses or in the part that gets repeated (chorus)? I thought that maybe Doriand wrote the French verses.

 

In any case, Mika has songs with non-natural flowing English as well so I guess I shouldn't be surprised..

[camille*]

Even in Karen? I thought that was only in EMD.

So, out of curiosity, are these parts in the verses or in the part that gets repeated (chorus)? I thought that maybe Doriand wrote the French verses.

 

In any case, Mika has songs with non-natural flowing English as well so I guess I shouldn't be surprised..

 

In EMD there's a mistake in the first sentence ('Elle me dit écris une chanson contente' is not correct)

 

In Karen I can't think of any mistake right now so I don't think there is any... The lyrics are more elaborated that's for sure. And you are totally right about melody matching lyrics and not the other way round.

[suzie]

I don´t know where esle to post it, I just kind of covered Mika´s Karen song.. here you go

 

[YOUTUBE]QLOgEWUWhWw[/YOUTUBE]

 

oh, it's perfect here! How are you? I haven't seen you around for a while but I can see you are studying hard, taking a break only to sing some stripped down versions of Mika songs... This one is brilliant! I love it.

Thank you for posting it.

Hope to see you soon

[cathouzouf]

Even in Karen? I thought that was only in EMD.

So, out of curiosity, are these parts in the verses or in the part that gets repeated (chorus)? I thought that maybe Doriand wrote the French verses.

 

In any case, Mika has songs with non-natural flowing English as well so I guess I shouldn't be surprised..

 

the one thing that comes in mind is in a verse...

 

He should start his own language, it would be simplier:roftl: wait maybe he already did:wink2:

[Miss.roxy]

oh, it's perfect here! How are you? I haven't seen you around for a while but I can see you are studying hard, taking a break only to sing some stripped down versions of Mika songs... This one is brilliant! I love it.

Thank you for posting it.

Hope to see you soon

 

Hey! I´m fine thanks, you?

Yes I have no time for MFC now and I´m so sad for it, but my school is like superhard now, I have exams everyday so I really can´t afford being here but I always read threads and so on

Thanks I´m glad u like it

Hope to see you this year on some show!!

[eloise.shaw]

Hello!

 

I don´t know where esle to post it, I just kind of covered Mika´s Karen song.. here you go

 

[YOUTUBE]QLOgEWUWhWw[/YOUTUBE]

 

Eeeeeee I love this soooo much

[tiibet]

Yes, surely, that's why I am certain it won't be recorded. Someone with a standard sense for music would point it out to him. Many of us heard it right away, one needn't be trained to recognise similarities.

It often does escape "producer's ears" though, so then you have lawsuits or are forced to credit others at a later stage.

 

That's something everyone in the business is aware of though, and 'some' have burnt themselves a bit already, so I'm only stating to explain some background in case anyone is interested, irrelevant of the topic of this thread, so all consider this off-topic, please.

 

 

Well if it's something people working in the business need to carefully consider it's not actually off-topic.

 

I just can't understand how even producer's professional ears can miss these things (not talking about Mika here, but music business and lawsuits generally). Maybe they are too close to it too, or do they take intentional risks because these things are not clear?

[suzie]

I just can't understand how even producer's professional ears can miss these things (not talking about Mika here, but music business and lawsuits generally). Maybe they are too close to it too, or do they take intentional risks because these things are not clear?

 

These things can be very clear. You compare the melody note by note and there you have it. (I am not talking about chord progression here). For people who can't hear it in music, a similar example would be a writer taking a character from someone else's book and writing similar stories and illustrating it in a totally similar way, It is no way a coincidence you come up with the same story and characters yet different names to the characters thousands of miles apart from the other one (I am thinking of a particular example here, I have seen it).

Anyone can be a producer, like anyone can be a singer or a songwriter, too. It is not something mysterious. In most cases of copyright breach it is a deliberate attempt (i.e. the song is stolen) , and it is usually unknown songs /artists that fall victim of it. Also, it is often taken from different countries in the belief that the chances of this seeing the light of day will come close to zero, so it's worth taking the chance as they have a great song to launch someone's career with and it is not so easy to write a tune that works.

 

PS sorry again for being I will try to find the thread started some years ago here on songs that sound similar and we can continue there. I love that topic

Edited February 14, 2012 by suzie

[suzie]

Hey! I´m fine thanks, you?

Yes I have no time for MFC now and I´m so sad for it, but my school is like superhard now, I have exams everyday so I really can´t afford being here but I always read threads and so on

Thanks I´m glad u like it

Hope to see you this year on some show!!

 

I can imagine how hard that particular school is. Never mind, it will 'pay off' eventually as no-one will ever take that knowledge from you.

Are you finishing it this year or is it next?

 

Anyway, to stay on topic, I really meant that I liked that song. I also believe that if you (or any other talented fans) posted similar videos of covers when the album is out, it could become a good means of promotion even for Mika.

Perhaps some great and charming covers like yours would even be linked on Mika's FB account... You never know...

Edited February 14, 2012 by suzie

[tiibet]

These things can be very clear. You compare the melody note by note and there you have it. (I am not talking about chord progression here). For people who can't hear it in music, a similar example would be a writer taking a character from someone else's book and writing similar stories and illustrating it in a totally similar way, It is no way a coincidence you come up with the same story and characters yet different names to the characters thousands of miles apart from the other one (I am thinking of a particular example here, I have seen it).

Anyone can be a producer, like anyone can be a singer or a songwriter, too. It is not something mysterious. In most cases of copyright breach it is a deliberate attempt (i.e. the song is stolen) , and it is usually unknown songs /artists that fall victim of it. Also, it is often taken from different countries in the belief that the chances of this seeing the light of day will come close to zero, so it's worth taking the chance as they have a great song to launch someone's career with and it is not so easy to write a tune that works.

 

Yes, I was thinking of small similarity (that could be a coincidence too), it can't always be that clear, and I was wondering who draws the line. Maybe there are exact rules about it.

 

But I know that stealing happens, a Finnish artist I follow just tweeted a link to his song performed in another country with different lyrics it was in Youtube (just like in your example to help someone's career).

[suzie]

Yes, I was thinking of small similarity (that could be a coincidence too), it can't always be that clear, and I was wondering who draws the line. Maybe there are exact rules about it.

 

It is the length of the 'sameness' mainly in the the melody, but also in the chords and the rhythm, regardless of the pitch, of course.

Someone posted earlier somewhere on MFC, for example, that the first 2 accords of a particular Mika song reminded them of some song by XY

I'd compare that to me saying that your phone number reminds me of mine because they both begin with 003...

The number of melodies (NOT chord progressions) one can create is infinite, so if the melody is the same for over a certain number of bars, it is most likely theft. People can hear it, anyone can be a judge. It happened to me many times that I recognised some song to sound similar to another one and I saw others posting the same all over the net. It is no coincidence or conspiracy. Some people can hear it, others don't. Or they don't care. In lawsuits, there may be experts called in to prove it but usually agreement is reached before it reaches court.

..I really need to find that thread here. I remember there was one.

 

EDIT: here it is -:

 

http://www.mikafanclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20426&highlight=stolen

 

although there is a better one one as far as I remember as this one simply has (credited) samples in songs as examples but I think there was a thread where songs were posted.

Edited February 14, 2012 by suzie

[Christine]

I can't hear it with Relax at all, but I can detect it with other songs where Mika has not credited the original composer. I don't know if producers, etc. are monitoring this kind of thing. I think it's a case of going ahead with it and worrying about the consequences if you get caught.

[Yuna]

Hello!

 

I don´t know where esle to post it, I just kind of covered Mika´s Karen song.. here you go

 

[YOUTUBE]QLOgEWUWhWw[/YOUTUBE]

 

wow this is truly amazing you have great voice!!