Scut Monkey Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Scut I have an example for you... If I were to give you an infaction (for example) for antagonising the moderators, would you take any notice of it? I doubt you would... if it ended up being a pattern of behaviour, let's say, you were pissing off the mods everyday for a month... and generally, you were affecting the whole forum cause of your comments, we could ban you... you'd certainly taake notice of that.. is that specific enough? I only just saw this post. Firstly, I don't appreciate your assumption of what I would or would not take notice of, especially when it relates to serious matters like complaints, infractions and bannings. Secondly, and more on-topic, my question in response to that example is: what is the reason for the mods getting pissed off? Was it the same reason all of those occasions? In my opinion it matters whether the reasons are strong and logical as opposed to minor and not so reasonable. I also think that it matters whether the mods are getting pissed off at the person for multiple problems or not, if so it means that this person may be a problem but if not the mods need to evaluate the situation and see whether the reason that they're getting pissed of if justifiable enough. That's when I'd include a self-evaluation factor: are the mods being objective? Is this person actually doing something that's not withing their right to do? If so, then I'd support action but if not then I'd say the mods would just have to learn to deal with being pissed off because the person has done nothing wrong and therefore can't be punished just because other people aren't happy (irrespective of the number of occasions or complaints). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scut Monkey Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 For me and many others, it's no longer simply about the banning. The decision with banning Yop, Cynthia and Kata, may have ultimately been the correct one (because apparenty there are more details that cannot be brought to light). And they can come back in a few days... But... it is in the manner that it was carried out. I agree. For now I will have to believe the claims that some form of behind-the-scenes communication justified the bannings, but I do not approve of the manner which the bannings were conducted. The mods did it in a dramatic manner which one could argue is also "inflammatory" with statements like "well if you want to leave we'll help you by banning you", which was followed with the posting of irrelevant private information publicly without permission. Then when we asked for an explanation for the bannings because the posters who were banned themselves were confused as to the exact reasons we were provided with only two lines and assertions that "it will have to do". Then we were patronisingly told "trust us". And to this moment I am still not sure what the precise policy and procedures are except that there's some form of "mods's discretion" involved. That would be fine and well if I had absolute trust in the mods' abilities but I can't reasonably do so because the mods are human like the rest of us and make mistakes (and seemed to have made several mistakes in the previous days). From all of those events I've come to the conclusion that we need more transparency and a more well-defined set of policies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 There's little point complaining now when we can't do anything about it... I'm sure any one of us would have told the "happy sunshine people" to let others complain if people had come to us... THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HERE FOR! I am not bringing up the things that annoyed me about comments surrounding the after party in order to lodge a complaint. I think every adult who reads this forum should learn to deal with the things that are said here and not go running to mods crying that they are offended and insulted at every turn. If something offends you, stop reading it or address the topic with a reasoned argument. If someone insults you without being horribly explicit and nasty then ignore them or respond in a dignified manner and move on. I'm just pointing out that those patronizing comments and need to suppress "negative" posts (some of which were indeed made by a mod) just serve to escalate the situation and you should not be surprised when things start getting uglier. I really don't believe this is possible. This whole forum thing is a "take-it-or leave-it" kind of deal. There isn't a voting democracy here that is possible. This is beginning to concern me as well. I've run forums before so I understand the take-it-or-leave-it mentality. The sandbox is built by individuals to their own specifications and if you don't like how things go down in the sandbox, then you should probably pack up your toys and go to another playground. But we are on the eve of MFC turning from a forum into Mika's fan club and that's a whole different ball game. Mika fans should not feel unwelcome in his fan club because of conflict among posters on a message board. Their place here should not be determined by a very small group of individuals or affected by poster complaints. Question: What makes you think that the complaints made about kata weren't warranted? I was just using Kata as an example. I have not had a chance to read through many threads on the forum since I got back from London so I don't know exactly what happened. But I've seen enough storms in a teacup around here to know that poster complaints are often unwarranted and sometimes they should just be told to suck it up and deal with it rather than catering to them because their loud complaints are deemed to represent the majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nico_collard Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 But... it is in the manner that it was carried out. Secondly, from what has come to light to me from many members through PMs and other channels of communication, it is also about a handful of many other examples of questionable actions by mods, and administration that in isolation can quickly be dismissed as a "one-off". But as I continue to receive more instances of these so-called "one-offs", things start to add up, and one can't help seeing a pattern. Now I am in the position where I cannot reveal the (behind-the-scenes details) in which many, long-time, non-apples, have come to me in confidence with matters they obviously cannot share with mods or administration because it is about a certain mod/administrator. First off... could you not encourage those people to take their concerns to another mod? Honestly, I don't mind if people complain about me... but I would like to hear about it... I'm not going to hold it against someone if people think I'm not doing a good job... I'm sure I speak for the others when I say that... And if it's not about the bannings anymore... why is it that they keep being brought up? Regarding men in power, Blue Sky might be making an observation that in a forum full of women and their drama, its ironic that the ultimate power is a man to decide who wins the argument. A mod can be in the centre of a "cat-fight", but we as regular members will always lose out on an argument because Administration will always side with his mod team as they stress the importance of a united front. Whether it be a man or woman in ultimate control, we are ultimately at the mercy of that one person making the final decision. I thionk you'll find that deano is quite hand off with the forum... I can only assume Freddie still feels he needs to mod... Then again, I can't exactly speak for either of them... We all play the game the way its wanted to be played and censor some or all of our dissent regarding mods and administration (because I'm not referring to gigs cancelled or wanting an autograph). We do this because we are afraid of being labelled as "sh**-stirrers" and get a reputation and continue to receive what may seem like biased mod action. The thing is, no-one seems willing to bring up any dissent regarding the mods until someone views our actions as being wrong or biased... One of the ways we can assess how we're going is for people to give us feedback... not just when something big happens... we can't change our actions if peopl aren't willing to give us feedback.. None of us hold anything aganst people... there certainly are people they don't get alng with, but they don't hold grudges because they might 'sh!t stir'... There have been quite a few times where someone has reported a post, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it... someone has taken it the wrong way... or they think it's annoying and we see it differently... -Posts get deleted and we don't receive a courtesy PM before hand. -We win contests and get no prizes promised (which then should not have been promised to begin with). -We get promised dates (that should not have been promised to begin with) and get no announcements, but we're not allowed to feel upset about it because: -threads are closed before receiving a courtesy PM. -we witness questionable behaviour outside of the forum, at gigs where one is representing the MFC - Would you prefer if you got a PM if a post is deleted? iIf so, we can do that... - What competition was run and when weren't prizes delivered? If that's the case, speak to the person who runs it, and if they refuse to hand over the booty, talk to us... - again, with the threads... we can do that... I already PM the owner of a thread when a new one needs to be made... - the outside actions are difficult to police... all I can say is, if people are doing something that would look bad on the forum they shouldn't do it... we can't exactly punish someone for doing something outsidethe forum... all we can say is that we don't condne it (but I think I know what you're talking about)... (2) The challenging part - we get some sort of system in place where we can diplomatically voice our concern about mods/administration. I really don't believe this is possible. This whole forum thing is a "take-it-or leave-it" kind of deal. There isn't a voting democracy here that is possible. How about this... a thread where people can voice their concerns about the mods/admin... or an email address where people can email their concerns and an impartial person can read the emails and suggest changes to the mods/admin... sort of reminds me of the Governor General here (they represent the Queen, and have the power to sack the Prime Minister if needs be... but no sacking would be allowed!) I personally like the idea of the email (and I'll suggest it to the mods and admin).. we all want to change the forum, and we need your help... it's a democracy, not a dictatorship... Feel free to PM me about that idea... I was told that the goodbye thread was "the last straw". As far as Kata's, Yop's and Cynthia's public posts go I have seen nothing that would merit banning so I can only assume that the "pattern of behaviour" occured behind-the-scenes in PMs etc. One thing for sure in my eyes, though, is that their goodbye thread posts where they said goodbye to the MFC's drama and in fact were performing an act of removing themselves from trouble could be deemed "a last straw" nor precipitate a mod posting an even more dramatic post along the lines of "if you want to leave then we'll help you by banning you". I can't speak for the others about their motivations... but I can only assume they felt that they had no other choice but to ban... it comes down to the comment I made before... would people take notice if they got an infraction? I believe that everyone needs to reflect on their behaviour, which is why I'm not against people taking a break from the MFC to cool down. But the mods' reflecting and making improvements is more important than any other member's because they carry the responsibility of deciding what is fair and right in this forum and anyone with that power needs to think especially long and hard. I agree... The thing is Scut, the way people have made comments seems as if only the mods should reflect... I'm sure that's not what they meant, but that's how it seems... it is a much more useful tool for us, but also everyone else could reflect on what has happened and what they've said to see if they could have changed it... And trust me, in the current atmosphere where some people believe that others were treated unfairly there are very few people here who aren't thinking about what they're saying before they hit 'submit', in fear of also being unfairly treated if anything. I personally don't like the atmosphere of fear and distrust and I hope that the faith in our mods and admins will be restored enough for people to feel that they can freely express themselves. I do too... It's quite unsettling to think people don't trust us enough to come and talk to us... As for your comment "if I write something that insults someone else, I change it" that goes back to the argument: what if you post something that's within your right to post yet someone is offended by it? If you've done nothing 'wrong' yet someone is offended, what should be done? Should you change it and sacrifice your right to keep another person happy? Those are hard questions to answer. Yet, as mods, it is your job to resolve situations like that. What is your policy, and if you don't currently have one what will it be? Me personally? If I have insulted someone with what I've posted, I usually change what I have written... I don't often delete my own posts, but will change it... I might be annoyed at the time (because I don't like being told what to do), but once I've had time to think, I see that it quite possibly could hurt someone's feelings... As for the policy... I imagine, the best way to deal with it would be to contact the person who wrote the post and ask what they meant to write, and speak to the insulted person and explain what the person meant to say in their post... I guess in a mediator role... if possible, we could get the person to change their post so they still say what they think, but in a less insulting way (I guess if it's something that could possibly insult another person)... Obviously, if someone was being downright insulting, we would ask them to change it.. and if they refused, we would delete it.. It's not so much changing what you've written (as in the subject, or opinion), but how you write it... I guess that's what I was getting at with my example.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
violet_sky Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Wow, it's really tense in here but I reckon this is what a week of nonstop gigging (or even only gig observing) does to people, even more so if it's the last gigs of an amazing tour and everybody seems to be afraid of running the risk to miss something. I'm not quite sure if I really should express my thoughts here because, for sure people will feel offended in one or another way. However as pretty much everybody is offended anyway already I will share my observations and yes, also what I think about what I have seen. Tuesday's gig was a complete desaster for me as I had the worst spot I could get. Not because it was so far in the back, actually I was quite in front, it was really bad just because of the people around me. I don't want to be called xenophobic talking about some obnoxious touchy guy who could not keep his dirty paws away from me, or hostile against children in tutus who hopefully have stabbed each other with the holy umbrella right after the show or intolerant towards lovestruck guys trampling me down while ploughing their way to the front just because Mika went down the security gap...but that's another story and was probably just personal bad luck for me due to being in the wrong place at the right time. However, it was great to have KiteKat's company in the queue and get to talk to Sariflor and a bunch of other lovely MFCers! And to see how Kata obviously had a flash after having been on stage during Lollipop! About Thursday: When we arrived at about 4 pm there was no queue, or hardly. I'm not kidding. There were just a few people standing or sitting around, almost all of them looking rather unhappy. I should find out about the reasons soon. First I was a bit confused about the lack of people on site, but then I spotted a guy with a number 120 something on his hand and sort of knew what was going on. People were obviously shopping, walking their dogs or going for tea and scones, just to squeeze in later. I was informed about the puzzled looks on people's faces soon. Of course it had to do with the magic plastic ribbons that had apparently just been handed out to the wrong people. As the right people were shopping, walking their dogs... ... The most confusing thing about it all was that EVERYBODY was unhappy. Those who had not gotten one were crying because they had not gotten one. Fair enough. Understandable to a point at least. Those who had one were crying, too. Because they felt guilty. So pink wristbands changed their owners and people were even unhappier, as those who first had one were sad as they were seeing their supposed chance to meet Mika go down the abyss and those who now got one were feeling even more guilty. It was a very very bizarr situation. If they had not given out any ribbons, everybody would have been happy. And I'm quite sure if the ones signing responsible for the whole idea knew about the fuss and ill-feeling it caused, they'd decide that it had to be a one-off event. I really want to say something about the whole queue situation. I disliked the way this was handled. IMO, and I understand that people will be offended by this, the whole numbers thing is a big nonsense and majorly unfair. It's not an official system implied by the venue or anyone involved in the process and a lot of people did not know that this was happening and were rather confused by it. To be fair, I have to say I knew about it but as I did not intend to waste my time in London exactly in Brixton in a queue and found it rather unfair to catch a number and then go for half a day, I forgot about the front row very quickly and without big regrets. Still I don't approve of the way the whole thing was 'organised' by some self-styled leader and about how it allowed people to just show up in the middle of the night, grab a number and then go for some sightseeing, lunch and a nap before they claimed 'their spot'. Upon arrival and after having chatted to some, finding out about the ribbons and such, we found ourselves a spot at the end of the very small queue and - yes, we queued. Fortunately, we were not asked to leave our actual spot as the numbers came to squeeze in in front. To be frank, I would not have left to go further to the back. If people (and really, no matter who, be it Aurélien or whoEVER) had tried to force me to go back I would have gladly sold my ticket to the cutthroat who was walking up and down the queue, hoping for the big deal. I'm not a Brit but IMO if you queue, you queue. You don't go for food, you don't go and check in to the hotel, you don't go for a museum tour or shopping in between. If that was common sense, people would not get encouraged to do stupid things like sitting in front of the venue from 1 am and things would sort themselves. If you know you can't leave to go to the loo you won't show up 24 hours before the doors open. Easy as that. About the ribbons, I have to say I'm really really grateful to those who have arranged things for us. It was a very nice treat to get to the party. And I agree with what has been said, it would have been amazing if things had worked out as planned, with Mika being able to walk the room just like the other band members. It would have been the icing on the cake. But hey, I don't think Mika or his manager or anyone else can really be so naive as to think it was possible. There were the same people in the room who are crowding him before and after every single show, so what exactly did they expect? A sudden change of mind?! LOL! Well, I have to admit I was hoping that after the first crowd things would get a bit more relaxed but - no. So I decided to stay aside instead of ploughing my way through the mob. I would have failed miserably and it's not exactly what would have made me feel comfortable, shouting over people's heads and just drown in the crowd... BUT, having read suggestions about putting people in a line at a party I have to say I would have found that just as stupid and ridiculous. I would have probably stayed back from that, too. Yeah, I'm difficult. Mika is not exactly easily approachable these days, mwhahah! I would have loved to say hello, but I was not meant to. Not that I'm devastated about it, because I did not expect to get to the aftershow party or even just spot him after the gig before he left... so, I'm not in tears. Not too happy either. It was a great show, though! And to be noticed: I don't address people and question their traits of character in general because I am not entitled to do so after just having met or observed them for a short period of time. We get only the top of the iceberg that way. I bet there's quite a few people finding me arrogant and reserved, while I'm just shy. What I have written and commented is exclusively related to what I have seen during a day or two. If I have been blunt, I apologize, it's just my view of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 First off... could you not encourage those people to take their concerns to another mod? This could be an impossible situation for some members. As Suzy pointed out, the mods project a united front in public. If you don't have a personal relationship with any of the mods then there could be a sense of not knowing who to trust when saying something that could put yourself in jeopardy if it was revealed to others. I'm not singling out the mods here, the same holds true for any group of people. If someone who didn't know me very well wanted to bitch about JackViolet or Suzy, for instance, they probably would not come to me for obvious reasons. I know the mods are meant to be more impartial and have more discretion than your average member, but I'm sure you can understand why people who don't know you personally would be hesitant to risk that kind of blind faith. I personally like the idea of the email (and I'll suggest it to the mods and admin).. we all want to change the forum, and we need your help... it's a democracy, not a dictatorship... I like the ombudsman idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelzy Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 I'm starting to wonder if the MFC actually needs a support group. Some members picked because they are good at talking things through with people. And also for helping people if they feel they want to express something to another member but don't know how to word it.. ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FREDDIESDOUBLE Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Suzy .. I felt the need to comment especially on this : 1) We accept authority around here without question. Regarding men in power, Blue Sky might be making an observation that in a forum full of women and their drama, its ironic that the ultimate power is a man to decide who wins the argument. A mod can be in the centre of a "cat-fight", but we as regular members will always lose out on an argument because Administration will always side with his mod team as they stress the importance of a united front. Whether it be a man or woman in ultimate control, we are ultimately at the mercy of that one person making the final decision The structure doesnt actually work like that ... Dcdeb has the MOD team .. all report to her , i only get contacted on very very rare occasions ...... If you cast your mind back I felt DcDeb was better placed than me .. and its proven true .. I cant comment on the bannings , I was in London and Dcdeb was away .. its all being reviewed and Im sworn to secrecy on so much on the offical thing that any comment I make is being jumped all over Just to say we will sort this , and I mean that as a group Lets take the Mods out of this for a moment ... the events of last week have left a sour taste , that spilt over onto the MFC .. as it should , lets not blame the Mods ... they were only trying to do their jobs And .. .. I see all sides as you will find out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzy Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Thanks Freddie - its not a problem with who the ultimate authority is (whether it be a man, a woman, you or debbie). I wanted to illustrate mainly that should other members question this ultimate authority, who would they then turn to? And as many have already recommended - other moderators should be trusted to take these concerns into consideration. This is a little awkward for some because: (1) mods are friends (2) are in a team presenting a united front Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scut Monkey Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 I cant comment on the bannings , I was in London and Dcdeb was away .. its all being reviewed and Im sworn to secrecy on so much on the offical thing that any comment I make is being jumped all over Just to say we will sort this , and I mean that as a group Lets take the Mods out of this for a moment ... the events of last week have left a sour taste , that spilt over onto the MFC .. as it should , lets not blame the Mods ... they were only trying to do their jobs And .. .. I see all sides as you will find out So basically we should just to wait for now and some sort of review will take place and some form of explanation will be given? (By the way, FD, no one is "blaming" the mods, merely holding them accountable for their actions and asking for justification, which is the definition of a 'transparent' system which the MFC claims to have.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FREDDIESDOUBLE Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 In answer to both ... wait until we are official then we can all talk Its kinda in between land at the moment I promise we have answers MFCers should go to Mods , if no joy go to Dcdeb , if still then me or Deano:thumb_yello: We will sort this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scut Monkey Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 In answer to both ... wait until we are official then we can all talk Its kinda in between land at the moment I promise we have answers MFCers should go to Mods , if no joy go to Dcdeb , if still then me or Deano:thumb_yello: We will sort this OK, so we'll wait until we're official. Do you have a rough idea of when that will happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nico_collard Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 I'm starting to wonder if the MFC actually needs a support group. Some members picked because they are good at talking things through with people. And also for helping people if they feel they want to express something to another member but don't know how to word it.. ?? *joins support group* I wanna be an Apple... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzy Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 *joins support group* I wanna be an Apple... But... you sure 'bout that? The notoriety, the reputation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendi Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 *joins support group* I wanna be an Apple... A fruity Mod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nico_collard Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 But... you sure 'bout that? The notoriety, the reputation? Of course... not like it's going to affect me being a mod... I guess that's because I'm not one anymore... I quit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendi Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Of course... not like it's going to affect me being a mod... I guess that's because I'm not one anymore... I quit. Are you serious - never sure in this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelzy Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 *joins support group* I wanna be an Apple... Are you joining because you need help or are offering it *offers support* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzy Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Of course... not like it's going to affect me being a mod... I guess that's because I'm not one anymore... I quit. ----- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 *joins support group* I wanna be an Apple... Maybe we'll end up with more apples here in the end. I wanted to comment on what you said yesterday about cynics and horrible people because this keeps coming up at gigs as people get to meet Bab, Yop, Kata, etc. and seem surprised that they're actually lovely people. We love Mika and MFC - a lot. I think it's a silly assumption that because we enjoy taking the piss or can be critical that we are just hardened cynics. We don't fly to other countries and stand in a queue for 14 hours because we hate the man and have disdain for everyone on MFC. I daresay the apples are far more respectful of Mika than many on MFC when it comes right down to it. Others poo-poo our comments and feign "respect" by calling for censorship on a forum he barely reads anyway, but they have no qualms about getting up in his face, making incessant demands on him and ignoring his requests to give him a break. We are the ones showing respect where it counts - by distributing his videos, supporting his live shows, keeping a respectful distance when others are banging on his car, shoving pens in his face and clinging to him mercilessly. Some people recognize this obvious truth and that's why they like the people who frequent this thread - not because they want to see a forum full of cynics and horrible people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nico_collard Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Are you serious - never sure in this thread ----- I am absolutely dead serious. I got sick of it and quit. I was a mod here from about mid July... I joined here mid May. I've spent most of my time on here as a mod, and I wasnt to act like a normal person (well okay, not completely normal, but you know what I mean). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nico_collard Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Maybe we'll end up with more apples here in the end. I wanted to comment on what you said yesterday about cynics and horrible people because this keeps coming up at gigs as people get to meet Bab, Yop, Kata, etc. and seem surprised that they're actually lovely people. We love Mika and MFC - a lot. I think it's a silly assumption that because we enjoy taking the piss or can be critical that we are just hardened cynics. We don't fly to other countries and stand in a queue for 14 hours because we hate the man and have disdain for everyone on MFC. I daresay the apples are far more respectful of Mika than many on MFC when it comes right down to it. Others poo-poo our comments and feign "respect" by calling for censorship on a forum he barely reads anyway, but they have no qualms about getting up in his face, making incessant demands on him and ignoring his requests to give him a break. We are the ones showing respect where it counts - by distributing his videos, supporting his live shows, keeping a respectful distance when others are banging on his car, shoving pens in his face and clinging to him mercilessly. Some people recognize this obvious truth and that's why they like the people who frequent this thread - not because they want to see a forum full of cynics and horrible people. I was exaggerating though... Not that I wanna talk about it any more... I really had my share of arguing with people I agreed with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FREDDIESDOUBLE Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Sorry you quit Nico New mods will be announced soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Not that I wanna talk about it any more... I really had my share of arguing with people I agreed with. .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scut Monkey Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 I guess that's because I'm not one anymore... I quit. I would say congratulations for finding away to relieve the recent pressure on you if I didn't think it a real loss for the MFC. I guess you did what you felt you needed to, and that's fair enough. "Welcome back"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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