FREDDIESDOUBLE Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 This is a subject that I never talked so much about! I just started to post after Lisbon’s gig (10th July) and I was (and I’m actually) a little bit shy, especially to give my opinion in “polemic” subjects. I didn’t had the opportunity to get in to the backstage because I wasn’t on the list, and I get really sad to see that some people who weren’t in the list had that opportunity. I felt like those people were more than me, had more importance than me and I think it’s not fair. I know that was a big confusing moment, people pushing and screaming and I know Freddie had a hard job trying to count people and control that crazy moment. And by the way… Freddie, I want to ask you… Who were the people that were on the list? I’m asking this because a Portuguese girl with the nickname “jujuzita” said that she was on the list, and then she didn’t went to Madrid and I thought because of that I could went in her place. I was next to you in the concert (front row, left), I thought that would be better to ask you about that situation before the gig, but my spoken English is a mess and I’m shy… After the show I just tried to ask you if I could fill in her place and you just said “No”, even before I could explain myself. I’m not trying to accuse anyone; this is just a “thing” that I never understood very well, why I’m different of the other people?! I hadn’t the opportunity to say anything and other people entered to the backstage without saying a word! Im kinda confused why we are discussing this after so long ... let me clarify the whole thing again .... So .... I asked John if we could have some backstage passes .. at first he thought we wanted tickets for the show , and at this time only gave us 10 ....I went back back to him and said we didnt want these we only wanted a meet and great with Mika ... so he said 20 people maximum ..... I posted in the Madrid thread asking for names and recieved names... I actually brought this list with me... Now the issue was I was faced with a sea of faces , I got a text asking us to meet at the corner and started to take people over to that area ... I didnt expect such a large crowd to come over ... The issue was I started to take in / drag in the people I recognised , I didnt actually know some of the people on that list , I got to 17 ish people and the ones that were close to me I took in too. The answer should of been to hand out name badges or passes ...... Im sorry that this didnt work? did it ? I thought it was ok in the end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babspanky Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 (edited) Fred, it was absolutely crazy at the time, so many people pushing. As one of the last to get in I can tell you that Fred didn't even really recognise myself and Jemma even though he knows both of us well, we had to stand our ground, identify ourselves and push ourselves through. I can say that if you hadn't identified yourself before this time I don't blame Fred, he could hardly see the people he did know. The message and the list of people attending was in the calendar thread which was always on the first page of MFC at that time. It really was up to the individual to inform the mods that they were going to this gig and would like to be included in the meet and greet. Other people can't be taken to task because some fans don't read all of the threads, or keep themselves up to date, the information is there, it's up to you to make sure you know what's going on and when. I don't mean to be rude, but it wasn't a time for being shy! If you want something, you have to take some responsiblity for making it happen, I am afraid. As Sparkly1 would say, shy bairns get nowt! I thought it was crazy mad, but that Fred did a great job under the circumstances. Edited December 31, 2008 by babspanky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted December 31, 2008 Author Share Posted December 31, 2008 I’m not trying to accuse anyone; this is just a “thing” that I never understood very well, why I’m different of the other people?! I hadn’t the opportunity to say anything and other people entered to the backstage without saying a word! I wasn't in Madrid so I'm not going to speak to this situation specifically. I think FD and bab have covered that well. But just generally speaking there are always going to be chancers who make their way backstage. They get friendly with Mika's family and ask them for favours, they beg John, chat up a security guard. Maybe just gatecrash and sneak in along with some others who have made legitimate prior arrangements to go backstage. None of this is Freddie's responsibility. Without Freddie there wouldn't have been an organized meet and greet and it would have been up to every single person to try to blag or sneak their way backstage to see Mika. Some may have been successful, some not and in all likelihood Mika would not have met with anyone at that time of night if FD hadn't asked John to arrange it. There are 12,000 accounts registered on MFC and there are thousands of fans at every gig that want to meet Mika. If you want to be one of them you need to get involved and make yourself known long before security starts letting people backstage. I understand the disappointment people experience when these things happen but you can't take it personally or hold someone else responsible. Some people get lucky, some don't. You can increase your chances of being lucky by staying informed and making yourself known. Take the situation in Brixton for instance. Wristbands were handed out all too randomly. I wasn't standing there at the time but a friend managed to get me one because she was in the right place at the right time and had the presence of mind to take one for me because she knew I would miss out otherwise. Others weren't so lucky and plenty of hardcore fans didn't get a wristband. Mika and some MFCers made arrangements to get more wristbands and they tried to accommodate everyone but there were still people who weren't in the right place at the right time and didn't get a wristband. Some got backstage passes from Mika's mother in the end and unfortunately some just ended up waiting outside because they couldn't get in. The best way to handle these events is to plan in advance instead of leaving everything to chance, but we seem to be talking now about fans who were NOT on this list in Madrid so I'm having a hard time understanding these complaints. It is up to members to keep up to date with what is happening on MFC if they want to take advantage of opportunities like this. I know FD did everything he could to accommodate the people who approached him before he left for Madrid because the mod/admin team discussed it for weeks. If you didn't approach us before that time then you take your chances along with all the other thousands of fans who go to a gig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liliana Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Im kinda confused why we are discussing this after so long ... let me clarify the whole thing again .... So .... I asked John if we could have some backstage passes .. at first he thought we wanted tickets for the show , and at this time only gave us 10 ....I went back back to him and said we didnt want these we only wanted a meet and great with Mika ... so he said 20 people maximum ..... I posted in the Madrid thread asking for names and recieved names... I actually brought this list with me... I don’t know why you are confused, and you don’t need to explain everything all over again! I understand very clearly what happened that day, but like I said, I didn’t said anything before, but someone just started this again and I thought it would be time for me to talk and end up with that stupid moment. Am I clear now? Freddie you didn’t answered me… Did you remember if there was a Portuguese girl on the list or not? This is an important thing for me, because I need do check the veracity of what that girl told me! She even told me that she talked to you asking if you could put my name on the list too! As you can see it’s important for me to know the truth! I wasn't in Madrid so I'm not going to speak to this situation specifically. I think FD and bab have covered that well. But just generally speaking there are always going to be chancers who make their way backstage. They get friendly with Mika's family and ask them for favours, they beg John, chat up a security guard. Maybe just gatecrash and sneak in along with some others who have made legitimate prior arrangements to go backstage. None of this is Freddie's responsibility. Without Freddie there wouldn't have been an organized meet and greet and it would have been up to every single person to try to blag or sneak their way backstage to see Mika. Some may have been successful, some not and in all likelihood Mika would not have met with anyone at that time of night if FD hadn't asked John to arrange it. I understand perfectly… I was there and I saw everything! People acted like crazy ones, and you might believe me or not, but I was looking at that thing and I was in shock, because I never saw nothing like that! I tried to speak with Freddie and whit the body guards too, but I wasn’t success like other people… And what mad me decide to write about this was this message… That guy, Freddie I think, started to count people. It seemed to me that, after having all MFC members in, there was still room for a few people more, so after some begging, he let me in. He did, so I didn’t enter without permission. Thank you!! Once in, some people pointed at us while telling security guards we shouldn’t be there. They didn’t ask us out, nor did John, who saw us clearly and answered to our hellos. I don’t know if he remembered us from the day before in Benicàssim, for we were 18 hours waiting for Mika, who, by the way, said “hasta mañana” ("see you tomorrow") as he was leaving. About this message I can assumed that she didn’t know him “That guy, Freddie I think”, and even like that she entered with the people whose name was on the list… “so after some begging, he let me in”. But well… it was the first time, right? The next time I’m sure everything will be better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sariflor Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 About this message I can assumed that she didn’t know him “That guy, Freddie I think”, and even like that she entered with the people whose name was on the list… “so after some begging, he let me in”. But well… it was the first time, right? The next time I’m sure everything will be better! I remember you, Liliana, and also from Brixton in London the year before if I am not mistaken....You were there with your boyfriend, right? You seem like a sweet, polite, respectful person, and as experience shows us, in this type of events this type of person has a hard time getting things. I can tell you so by personal experience! Usually, the chancers (like Christine said) are the ones who get "in there". I know for a fact that some people begged security in Brixton to let them into the afterparty, and that is how they got in, over other fans who were left outside because they followed the correct procedure. Such is the unfairness of this whole setup, the way it is done now. Even though I am incredibly happy that Mika and co went for the organised meeting in Madrid, and I hope that these can be perfected for the future, at the same time I am annoyed that we fought such a hard battle here at MFC to get this pre-arranged meeting, and yet some chancers just got in there anyway by doing things that I personally consider despicable, like begging Mika's family or management for access. I would not in a million years do that, so I cannot understand how anyone has the cheek to do that. Anyway, in this situation I must say that I totally understand your feelings, and when it comes to the fact that you asked if you could take Juju's spot and you didn't get a positive response, I do think that it is a bit unfair to you. I must say though that poor FD was in a horrible position, being harrassed from all angles, and having the very hard task of recognising and picking the people who got in, so I would not hold him responsible for this. He did what he could (and a great job) under the circumstances. People were acting like animals and it was crazy, like Jemma's broken ribs testify. Regarding the other girl being let in by FD after "begging" him, even despite the fact that they had been told earlier that this was a pre-arranged meeting and the names were very limited....well, I think that this perfectly illustrates the point that I made above: pushy people get in, which is IMO very unfair. To Leire, I would also like to add that the fact that Mika said "hasta manana" when you said goodbye to him in Benicassim is his standard response when people tell him that they will see him tomorrow/next tuesday, so I would not take this like a message implying "I will see you backstage tomorrow after the gig." I'm not being bitchy, just clarifying in case it was intended in this way in your message, which was the impression that I got . He is nice and always says that sort of thing . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted December 31, 2008 Author Share Posted December 31, 2008 I understand perfectly… I was there and I saw everything! People acted like crazy ones, and you might believe me or not, but I was looking at that thing and I was in shock, because I never saw nothing like that! I tried to speak with Freddie and whit the body guards too, but I wasn’t success like other people… And what mad me decide to write about this was this message… Oh I believe it, absolutely. I've seen some pretty shocking things when it comes to people getting to Mika and nothing is unbelievable to me any more. This is why Robertina felt the need to speak to the girls who were not with MFC since Mika doesn't know the difference. All he knows is that he agreed to meet MFCers and if they don't act appropriately it reflects badly on all of us and is bound to make it more difficult to arrange meet and greets in the future. It sounds like you understand how difficult it must have been under the circumstances to make sure everyone who had arranged to get in, did get in, without letting half the crowd in as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liliana Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 I remember you, Liliana, and also from Brixton in London the year before if I am not mistaken....You were there with your boyfriend, right? You seem like a sweet, polite, respectful person, and as experience shows us, in this type of events this type of person has a hard time getting things. I can tell you so by personal experience! Usually, the chancers (like Christine said) are the ones who get "in there". I know for a fact that some people begged security in Brixton to let them into the afterparty, and that is how they got in, over other fans who were left outside because they followed the correct procedure. Such is the unfairness of this whole setup, the way it is done now. Owww… Thank you! Yes, I went to the Brixton’s gigs in February with my boyfriend! I know what you mean with the disadvantages of having a respectful behavior… But I don’t like to be rude with anyone (except if people deserve it) neither bother anyone (like Mika’s family)! I got my chance to go to the after party without doing anything crazy, I just waited my time to receive that free bracelet that John was distributing. Because of my good behavior I didn’t have the possibility to ask if he liked a gift that I offered him in London, because people always scream and push other people when they are near him! It’s insane! In Madrid it was the same thing, but in a small scale! But this time I was lucky to find him when I was leaving the venue! So I think in that particularly time, it worth have a great behavior! Anyway, in this situation I must say that I totally understand your feelings, and when it comes to the fact that you asked if you could take Juju's spot and you didn't get a positive response, I do think that it is a bit unfair to you. I must say though that poor FD was in a horrible position, being harrassed from all angles, and having the very hard task of recognising and picking the people who got in, so I would not hold him responsible for this. He did what he could (and a great job) under the circumstances. Thank you for understanding me! My first thought was that the all story was an invention! The worst thing it was not having the possibility of explain myself! I know Freddie might thought that I only wanted to attack him like the other girls! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liliana Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 It sounds like you understand how difficult it must have been under the circumstances to make sure everyone who had arranged to get in, did get in, without letting half the crowd in as well. Yes I understand, because in Brixton's after party I saw the result of letting enter more than 100 people (I guess) to a small place with Mika inside! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babspanky Posted December 31, 2008 Share Posted December 31, 2008 Thank you for understanding me! My first thought was that the all story was an invention! The worst thing it was not having the possibility of explain myself! I know Freddie might thought that I only wanted to attack him like the other girls!:naughty: This would have been the highlight of Freddie's week! Go for it next time liliana! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sariflor Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 This would have been the highlight of Freddie's week! Go for it next time liliana! :naughty: Didn't you read that Liliana goes to the gigs with her boyfriend? We may get more drama than we bargained for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IngievV Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 This would have been the highlight of Freddie's week! Go for it next time liliana! This made me laugh out loud, thank you:roftl: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
liliana Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 This would have been the highlight of Freddie's week! Go for it next time liliana! No way! I’m a well behavior girl! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sariflor Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Have a little look......... http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=LZPnPQhuu9U&fmt=22 :wub2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sienna Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Have a little look......... http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=LZPnPQhuu9U&fmt=22 :wub2: Beautiful! He was on fire that night, wasn’t he? And what a relief it was to finally have Mika on stage after all the waiting all through the night. I still can't believe how warm it was! Oh Spain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queenie Posted January 4, 2009 Share Posted January 4, 2009 Have a little look......... http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=LZPnPQhuu9U&fmt=22 :wub2: I remember i was jumping so hard that i thought i could have broken something Memories... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guylainem123 Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Have a little look......... http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=LZPnPQhuu9U&fmt=22 :wub2: that's a really nice video sara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PurpleCat Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Ok, the point has been made, and perhaps it's time to move on now? It seems a bit contrived that we're discussing this again over and over after 5+months, so I guess that it would be best to just drop it now....The points have been made, you have clarified your position, and everyone has had their say . You guys say that you've been unjustly accused, but on the other hand Robi (who we know and trust to be a good person, and also an honest one) said that one of the girls (you said you were the only ones there, and that you spoke to her?) had given her a rude reply, so it all looks a bit confused now and I personally think that it's best to let it go and move on. It's not all about a "supposed" rude reply. Lots of things, out of which none of them is true, have been said referring to us: that we climbed over barriers, that we were mad, rude, nasty, disrespectful with another MFCers, that we pushed violently at the barrier, that we pushed and insulted during all the gig, that we are envious, that we had to be tought how to behave, that we are selfish and hysterical, that we don't understad the meaning of respect and manners, that it's the way we act every time and have had some problems with people in the past, that we wanted to jump on someone's conversation with Mika, and had to be told to back off and sit down and stay there, that we would've pester Mika if we hadn't been told off, that we are pushy stupid girls, that we should learn to be civilised Mika fans, etc. I guess you understand that after reading this large amount of fake facts we weren't to keep quiet. Now we just hope not to read again this kind of fake comments and have to refute them after the following events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babspanky Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 It's not all about a "supposed" rude reply. Lots of things, out of which none of them is true, have been said referring to us: that we climbed over barriers, that we were mad, rude, nasty, disrespectful with another MFCers, that we pushed violently at the barrier, that we pushed and insulted during all the gig, that we are envious, that we had to be tought how to behave, that we are selfish and hysterical, that we don't understad the meaning of respect and manners, that it's the way we act every time and have had some problems with people in the past, that we wanted to jump on someone's conversation with Mika, and had to be told to back off and sit down and stay there, that we would've pester Mika if we hadn't been told off, that we are pushy stupid girls, that we should learn to be civilised Mika fans, etc. I guess you understand that after reading this large amount of fake facts we weren't to keep quiet. Now we just hope not to read again this kind of fake comments and have to refute them after the following events. Some of this may have been said, I honestly can't remember, but I am really unclear where it was said that it was you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeiRe Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Happy new year everyone! I totally agree discussing these things after so much time is tedious, even for us, who have just heard of them. However, having read PurpleCat’s last post I think you’ll understand we just had to explain our point of view. We have taken this thread up with the best of intentions, that is, in order to prevent this sort of things from happening again. We felt so bad when we read certain unfair comments… So, we'd like to make a few last points before hopefully settling the question. Robi (who we know and trust to be a good person, and also an honest one) said that one of the girls (you said you were the only ones there, and that you spoke to her?) had given her a rude reply We said we were the only non MFCers in the M&G (well, except for PurpleCat, even though you didn’t know each other). She spoke to me, but it was during the gig, not in the meeting. No doubt she’s a good person. I usually take for granted everybody is, until they prove it wrong. Anyway, as PurpleCat has already hinted, had it been all just about a supposed rude reply, we wouldn’t have even bothered to say a word. Im sorry that this didnt work? did it ? I thought it was ok in the end Once again, we wouldn’t question your good job even if we hadn’t finally entered, whatever next! About this message I can assumed that she didn’t know him “That guy, Freddie I think”, and even like that she entered with the people whose name was on the list… “so after some begging, he let me in”. And liliana, I’m so sad you didn’t manage to get in, honestly. We thought all MFCers were in when we entered. Ours was really just a matter of luck. I knew Freddie was a moderator, and I think I had seen him before, but it was not until that day and after reading this thread that I associated the name with the guy himself. I just said “por favor” (please) to him a thousand times... I personally don’t think begging someone for access (as I take it, not the same as pushing; and of course not family, management, etc.), when it’s the only thing you can do to get what you want, and as long as you don’t hurt anyone by doing it, is something you should feel ashamed of, but of course each person has a different set of values, so respectable. To Leire, I would also like to add that the fact that Mika said "hasta manana" when you said goodbye to him in Benicassim is his standard response when people tell him that they will see him tomorrow/next tuesday, so I would not take this like a message implying "I will see you backstage tomorrow after the gig." I'm not being bitchy, just clarifying in case it was intended in this way in your message, which was the impression that I got . He is nice and always says that sort of thing . I know. I didn’t mean it that way, of course. I don’t have such a prodigious imagination... Thanks for clarifying, anyway. And thanks also for your video! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikas_gal07 Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 (edited) Ok .... i dont post here very often anymore ... but i was at madrid also and have been reading posts .... As many of the others who went to madrid have already said .... why is this carrying on ... and why 5 months later ?? If there were rude things said by mfc'ers whom were at madrid ... well, who can blame them ?? People had broken ribs ... and also had to fight for a position to see mika back stage even though they made time to add thier name to the list through the forum .... people may not have been a part of the forum at the time .... but this was arranged through dedicated mods with mika's management whom both agreed about the size of the meet and greet etc .... no-one is accountable for others not being there in the right time or place ... Ive been to many gigs .... my first one being may 17th? in birmingham 07 ... i have NEVER spoken to mika despite the amount of gigs ive been to ... ive always been too shy , but i managed to chat afterwards at the aftershow of madrid .... Finally !!! ... i got the guts to speak to him .... that doesnt make me a bigger fan ... but FINALLY i actually got to speak to him , despite the other gigs i have been too ... and i think i deserved that ... i have NEVER pushed and shoved like some people did that night .... purely because i have respect for ANYONE- not only Mika!! ... but i can guarantee the people who DID push and shove and broke bones ... were people who werent on the list through desperation to see mika backstage , who else would if they were on the list ? ... nothing surprises me now either as christine says , pushing and shoving are be expected .... however i dont recall names being mentioned of who did push and shove ... i dont think mfc'ers knew the people who were pushing and jumping barriers ... why is it being brought to attention that there were some who were pushing and some who werent etc now ?? O.O ... i think the people who were mentioned to be pushing etc , were as a general comment - there was alot going on ... and alot of people jumping barriers .... i think if people are going to carry on posting that they have been accused of being rude or jumping barriers ... they should pull up WHERE thier name has been mentioned .. because there was alot of that going on that night and i dont recall any mfc'er mentioning individual names .... i certainly know it wouldnt have been anyone who was on the list as said before ... and after all the hard work, its not fair to bring it up now ??? ... tbh ... i dont see the point ... people saw mika ... who were NOT on the LIST .... i think thats lucky ... not something to be moaned about ... theres many who want to see him live and havent , never mind backstage !! .. so people got slated for jumping barriers or being pushing or called rude ?? .... welcome to the concert world Rant over .... agree or not .... and happy new year everyone !!!! Edited January 5, 2009 by mikas_gal07 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FREDDIESDOUBLE Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Errrr hold on .................... If your name wasnt on the list then sorry you should not of come in ... bottom line ..... we had this for the MFC and the MFC alone and VERY restricted numbers ....... Mikas team said 20 maximum!! If you name was on the list and you didnt get in then thats a different matter .. It had nothing to do with begging or crying or anything else!! , imagine being faced with so many faces , one girl was crying (was that you??) ... thats actually NOT a nice situation to be faced with is it?? .. even worse when I didnt recognise people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BICHE Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 even worse when I didnt recognise people I remember that you didn't recognise me but I can't blame you, I didn't introduce me to you before the M&G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FREDDIESDOUBLE Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 I remember that you didn't recognise me but I can't blame you, I didn't introduce me to you before the M&G Well this is true ... As I said a few pages ago now .. looking back we should of had name badges The reason some extra people got in btw .. was that I got to 17 and realised I could let a few more in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikas_gal07 Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 Errrr hold on .................... If your name wasnt on the list then sorry you should not of come in ... bottom line ..... we had this for the MFC and the MFC alone and VERY restricted numbers ....... Mikas team said 20 maximum!! If you name was on the list and you didnt get in then thats a different matter .. It had nothing to do with begging or crying or anything else!! , imagine being faced with so many faces , one girl was crying (was that you??) ... thats actually NOT a nice situation to be faced with is it?? .. even worse when I didnt recognise people I also remember MFC being made an "official fan club" (at the top of the week) .... i dont see it being anyone elses problem if they didnt join ... doesnt mean anyone is a bigger fan ... but i was under the impression that offical fan clubs got privilidges ... and even fan clubs who ARE NOT ... have had backstage priviledges by mikas generosity .... and im sure others will continue to do so untill sommething more official is in place... i think mika has been extremley kind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FREDDIESDOUBLE Posted January 5, 2009 Share Posted January 5, 2009 (edited) I also remember MFC being made an "official fan club" (at the top of the week) .... i dont see it being anyone elses problem if they didnt join ... doesnt mean anyone is a bigger fan ... but i was under the impression that offical fan clubs got privilidges ... and even fan clubs who ARE NOT ... have had backstage priviledges by mikas generosity .... and im sure others will continue to do so untill sommething more official is in place... i think mika has been extremley kind These members that didnt get in where not even members ? how on earth was I supposed to include them then ? :roftl: Thats the whole point of the MFC .. WE are his official fanclub Man I cant wait The comments that were said are TRUE btw ... barriers were jumped , people had ribs crushed due to the surge .. BUT no names have been mentioned .. so why are people here getting hurt??? eh? Edited January 5, 2009 by FREDDIESDOUBLE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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