Discussion on how to help newbies on MFC and improve communication in general

[crazyaboutmika]

Hello everyone

I hope you all go on with the discussion that originated on the before hotel accord arena (bercy) thread but which is  so it would be more useful to try to talk about the ways people with ideas on how to make this forum easier to use for newcomers and for newcomers to ask their questions here so something positive can come out of this discussiom

Thank you. 

 

[Hero]

6 hours ago, crazyaboutmika said:

Hello everyone

I hope you all go on with the discussion that originated on the before hotel accord arena (bercy) thread but which is  so it would be more useful to try to talk about the ways people with ideas on how to make this forum easier to use for newcomers and for newcomers to ask their questions here so something positive can come out of this discussiom

Thank you. 

 

Maybe it would help if some of the posts were copied across too? As there were some discussion points and ideas raised in them. 

[Hero]

Just to respond to this point from a post in the other thread:

14 hours ago, roz said:

Because between the salacious threads that are useless in the forum (sorry but I'm tired of seeing posts from people who want to **** him off or admire his sweating) and random people who tell their life stories in threads that shouldn't exist, maybe there's some sorting to do? 

Well, maybe, but it's not for one person to dictate which threads are useless and shouldn't exist. If they're well used, others obviously like them. If you want to be inclusive you have to accept all aspects of the fandom. That doesn't mean you have to like everything - god knows there's a couple of threads I avoid - but you can't expect them not to exist just because you don't like them.

 

Obviously, members are not required to read every single thread and post. If there's a thread you don't like or aren't interested in, just avoid it! If there's a thread you do like, you can "follow" it to receive updates (akin to "liking" on sm). And if there's a particular user that consistently posts content you don't like, you can choose to "ignore" them (account settings - manage account) and you won't see their posts unless you choose to read them. 

 

These are features designed to help you make your experience more enjoyable. No need to annoy yourself reading things you don't like! 

 

Actually, question for the mods - is it possible to "ignore" a thread? That might be useful. 

[Jolio Drept]

3 hours ago, Hero said:

Just to respond to this point from a post in the other thread:

Well, maybe, but it's not for one person to dictate which threads are useless and shouldn't exist. If they're well used, others obviously like them. If you want to be inclusive you have to accept all aspects of the fandom. That doesn't mean you have to like everything - god knows there's a couple of threads I avoid - but you can't expect them not to exist just because you don't like them.

 

Obviously, members are not required to read every single thread and post. If there's a thread you don't like or aren't interested in, just avoid it! If there's a thread you do like, you can "follow" it to receive updates (akin to "liking" on sm). And if there's a particular user that consistently posts content you don't like, you can choose to "ignore" them (account settings - manage account) and you won't see their posts unless you choose to read them. 

 

These are features designed to help you make your experience more enjoyable. No need to annoy yourself reading things you don't like! 

 

Actually, question for the mods - is it possible to "ignore" a thread? That might be useful. 

 

We're talking about threads that are very clearly about fantasy, that sexualize a 40-year-old gay man in a relationship, and we just don't think it belongs on a forum where anyone over 13 can register. 

 

It's not even a question of "useful", "not useful", it's a question of respect towards the artist you follow and who supports you (you mention it yourself). Fantasies should remain in the private sphere. And a little sorting wouldn't hurt.

 

Following the forum Guidelines : « Adult topics and language - avoid profanity, explicit sexual posts, excessive sexual innuendo or other content that may be inappropriate. This would include posts that describe a sex act, or strongly imply one. The forum system automatically blanks out certain curse words, but there are some that it won't catch and you may be asked to stop using those words by a moderator. »

Edited March 30 by Jolio Drept

[roz]

2 hours ago, Hero said:

Just to respond to this point from a post in the other thread:

Well, maybe, but it's not for one person to dictate which threads are useless and shouldn't exist. If they're well used, others obviously like them. If you want to be inclusive you have to accept all aspects of the fandom. That doesn't mean you have to like everything - god knows there's a couple of threads I avoid - but you can't expect them not to exist just because you don't like them.

 

Obviously, members are not required to read every single thread and post. If there's a thread you don't like or aren't interested in, just avoid it! If there's a thread you do like, you can "follow" it to receive updates (akin to "liking" on sm). And if there's a particular user that consistently posts content you don't like, you can choose to "ignore" them (account settings - manage account) and you won't see their posts unless you choose to read them. 

 

These are features designed to help you make your experience more enjoyable. No need to annoy yourself reading things you don't like! 

 

Actually, question for the mods - is it possible to "ignore" a thread? That might be useful. 

So you're asking us to avoid looking at these threads when they should just be deleted? Deleting takes less than a minute, right? You talk about "be inclusive", should I remind you of the definition of this word? I's a word referring to the acceptance of differences. So, are you asking us to accept that people speak negatively about an artist's sexuality? Is that it? Do I need to remind you that even recently, Mika mentioned in an interview that he avoids social media because he still receives hurtful messages privately? Do you really think that him and his team would be happy to learn that the moderators of the MFC support this kind of talk? 

 

Yes, they're not highlighted on the forum, thankfully. But they exist; it's not just two pages about it. The stop should have been put in place as soon as this forum was launched to prevent overflow. You had already made a statement about it a few years ago with the only argument being that Mika was a "sex symbol" for some. Okay, fine, but people don't have to expose their fantasies in public. Minors look at this site, and the impulses of some should not be exposed on a site accessible to all. You've written rules that isn't enforced: "Administrators and moderators of these forums reserve the right to remove any content posted by members, or to suspend or ban any member at any time or for any reason in accordance with these guidelines and at their sole discretion. They also reserve the right to handle all administrative issues, including disciplinary action, privately (...) Adult topics and language - avoid profanity, explicit sexual posts, excessive sexual innuendo or other content that may be inappropriate. This would include posts that describe a sex act, or strongly imply one. The forum system automatically blanks out certain curse words, but there are some that it won't catch and you may be asked to stop using those words by a moderator." 

 

So I'm sorry, but even if you don't enforce the forum rules, how do you expect us not to complain? Accept being in the wrong and clear out the threads. 

[lysk]

Sorry for the intervention but inclusive mean that everyone can have acces to the forum and the informations especially disabled people … 

Not that you can post whatever you want without any regards for the rules 

[Hero]

4 hours ago, roz said:

So, are you asking us to accept that people speak negatively about an artist's sexuality? Is that it?

Oh good grief. No, of course not, and I'm shocked if that's the case. But that's not what you said before! Has someone here spoken negatively about his sexuality? Being homophobic? If so it certainly needs addressing as it's not acceptable. The whole point is that we love him, accept him and are supportive of him. And of Andy. Believe me, if anyone is disparaging towards them, their sexuality, their relationship - which I personally find amazing and inspirational - I'll happily give them hell. I'd be very happy if such idiots stopped existing. 

 

If you ever see anyone posting such crap, please please please report it.  

 

4 hours ago, roz said:

You had already made a statement about it a few years ago with the only argument being that Mika was a "sex symbol" for some

Me personally? I don't remember that. I've only been here since 2021. Do you mean me or the forum admin team? 

 

4 hours ago, roz said:

Do I need to remind you that even recently, Mika mentioned in an interview that he avoids social media because he still receives hurtful messages privately?

No. Not at all. It's very fresh in our heads. And thank you for pointing out yet another reason I despise social media, for the easy access it gives to such arseholes to cause hurt and damage. As you say, at least here there is moderation. 

 

Ok, I was getting involved because I honestly hate all this upset and want us all to be one equal community with one aim - to support him. But maybe that's too simplistic of me. And I'm afraid it seems like whatever I say will be twisted to outline whatever point you're currently trying to make. Case in point, the comment about speaking negatively about his sexuality wasn't specified in the comment I replied to. Yet  somehow that's what I responded to? No. So, I'm bowing out of this discussion. I really do hope you make progress here, and as a community we can all be better for it. But I'm not wasting my time to be on the receiving end of this. It's not what I'm here for. So, I'll let the mods and admins take it forward. Good luck. 

[TinyLove_CJ]

8 hours ago, Hero said:

Actually, question for the mods - is it possible to "ignore" a thread? That might be useful. 

   You can't ignore a thread. The only option would be to not follow a particular thread that you're not bothered about and double check that you don't have notifications turned on for it either.

   (Sorry for quoting you into this Hero, I know you've left the discussion, you don't have to reply back if you don't want).

 

 

   Older threads that haven't been active for a long time eventually get "pushed" way back down amongst the topic pages and in affect are ignored by members anyway because they're no longer prominent at the top of a page.

 

5 hours ago, roz said:

So you're asking us to avoid looking at these threads when they should just be deleted? Deleting takes less than a minute, right?

   I agree with Hero's statement in regards to avoiding certain threads. It's really no different to social media. When you're busy scrolling and you see something you don't like, you can easily choose to ignore it and move on. You can also report and block. You don't have to read every post simply because it happens to be there.

   It's the same here on MFC, if there's something you're not interested in don't follow it. If there's something genuinely concerning then we do have the report function (and I assure you all reports get looked into), anything too over the top or extremely offensive it's best to contact a mod and so discussions can be done privately.

 

   You say deleting is easy and takes just a minute. Yes it is, but here it's also not. Once something is deleted on MFC it is gone for good and the data is unrecoverable. I can understand that in some instances this is the right thing to do but on the other hand there might be information in a thread that might just be needed.

   I may have a solution to this. Threads can be hidden by mods and once they're hidden members can no longer see them within the topic sections or search for them. Mods can still see hidden threads, so just in case there is something a member is looking for but can't find it and is wondering "is this hidden?" they could still contact a mod to answer any questions they have.

 

   There is also the option of archiving threads and closing them to further replies. Archived threads can still be open too but they won't appear in search results are often harder to find anyway.

 

 

32 minutes ago, Hero said:

Has someone here spoken negatively about his sexuality?

   I think Roz may be referring to older threads/posts, there's definitely some rather controversial topics between 2007-2010 that I've come across.

 

I don't think it would be too much of a shame if those did get deleted. This is definitely a discussion the Mod team will have!

[Jolio Drept]

21 minutes ago, TinyLove_CJ said:

 

   There is also the option of archiving threads and closing them to further replies. Archived threads can still be open too but they won't appear in search results are often harder to find anyway.

 

 

   I think Roz may be referring to older threads/posts, there's definitely some rather controversial topics between 2007-2010 that I've come across.

 

I don't think it would be too much of a shame if those did get deleted. This is definitely a discussion the Mod team will have!

 

I believe several young people offered to help with the "sorting and archiving problem threads" topic, especially when the FC was looking for junior moderators. Indeed, we're all aware of how much work this can be, given the number of problem threads we've stumbled across without even looking for them. 😊

 

@TinyLove_CJ I'm glad to read that last paragraph, which opens the door to a discussion. The threads between 2007 and 2010 where many homophobic comments were made about Mika and his relationship must absolutely disappear from this forum, which we know no longer shares these opinions today, because fortunately society has evolved.

[CharlotteL]

Hi everyone

I haven't gotten involved in this discussion so far. I've been following and doing a lot of thinking though.

I agree with CJ, I think us mods will have some internal discussions first about some of the bigger, structural concerns raised here.

But in the meantime, I really appreciate the constructive criticism and encourage you to respectfully express it here instead of twitter or other platforms where we can neither see it nor do anything about it. I can only speak for myself, but if I don't reply right away, it means I am digesting and carefully considering what I've heard and what I can do about it. Not that I don't care.

I would be particularly grateful if you reported specific posts that you think are inappropriate or told us about old threads that you stumble across that you think contain things that violate the guidelines.

[Jolio Drept]

12 minutes ago, CharlotteL said:

Hi everyone

I haven't gotten involved in this discussion so far. I've been following and doing a lot of thinking though.

I agree with CJ, I think us mods will have some internal discussions first about some of the bigger, structural concerns raised here.

But in the meantime, I really appreciate the constructive criticism and encourage you to respectfully express it here instead of twitter or other platforms where we can neither see it nor do anything about it. I can only speak for myself, but if I don't reply right away, it means I am digesting and carefully considering what I've heard and what I can do about it. Not that I don't care.

I would be particularly grateful if you reported specific posts that you think are inappropriate or told us about old threads that you stumble across that you think contain things that violate the guidelines.

No worries, but the list is really long honestly, maybe opening a dedicated thread where we can list all the threads that bother us/you would be more appropriate. Or maybe we'll come back to you by email in a few weeks while we take stock of everything. 

 

I'm still convinced that a live event or other key moment to discuss the more systemic problems is a good idea for "licking the abscess". There are only a few of us here who make the effort to use the forum to initiate discussion, but many young people won't, and a dedicated live session could bridge the gap between forum members and young people in the networks.

 

In any case, thanks to the junior moderators for their answers, it's important to be able to exchange ideas if we hope to see the lines move. 

[CharlotteL]

1 minute ago, Jolio Drept said:

No worries, but the list is really long honestly, maybe opening a dedicated thread where we can list all the threads that bother us/you would be more appropriate. Or maybe we'll come back to you by email in a few weeks while we take stock of everything. 

Sure! Maybe it'd be better if you sent me (or another mod) that list privately because I imagine if you post it publicly there will immediately be a huge discussion about whether and why certain threads are (in)appropriate.

 

5 minutes ago, Jolio Drept said:

There are only a few of us here who make the effort to use the forum to initiate discussion, but many young people won't, and a dedicated live session could bridge the gap between forum members and young people in the networks.

Yes I know. I mean I like the idea of having a conversation although I do not like the idea of discussing these serious topics publicly live. Maybe a zoom or something would be better.

Again, I'll have a think about it!

[carafon]

If it's technicaly possible , it may be easier for people to navigate if you change the place of the topics and "promote" the ones who are the most interresting depending of mika's activity

I mean , the concerts topics at the top of the list when he's on tour , the media ones when he's doing a tv  show , the discussions about lyrics when an album is out and so on ......

And maybe change some topics tittle to make them  more intuitive

It probably was my fault because I'm mainly using the "unread content" button  ......... but I remember at the beginning I didn't get the difference of the concerts topics 'before the show" and " review" .

It also could be more friendly to give a good spot to the presentation topics  ? where people could ask how to find their way 

 

Edited March 30 by carafon

[Maria Patricia]

A round of applause to @Hero,  @mellody,  @dcdeb, @Mikasister, @silver and to all of you who have made MFC possible so far, with your effort, love, time, without receiving or asking for anything in return.

Not very well for those who only seek profit without having done anything.

 

Edited March 31 by Maria Patricia

[dcdeb]

Catching up to this conversation now...

 

On 3/30/2024 at 3:56 AM, Jolio Drept said:

We're talking about threads that are very clearly about fantasy, that sexualize a 40-year-old gay man in a relationship, and we just don't think it belongs on a forum where anyone over 13 can register. 

 

It's not even a question of "useful", "not useful", it's a question of respect towards the artist you follow and who supports you (you mention it yourself). Fantasies should remain in the private sphere. And a little sorting wouldn't hurt.

 

Following the forum Guidelines : « Adult topics and language - avoid profanity, explicit sexual posts, excessive sexual innuendo or other content that may be inappropriate. This would include posts that describe a sex act, or strongly imply one. The forum system automatically blanks out certain curse words, but there are some that it won't catch and you may be asked to stop using those words by a moderator. »

 

I absolutely agree with you that such fantasies, things like explicit fan fiction, etc. should stay in private. Why people would ever want to put that sort of thing out in public is beyond me -- it's like publishing your diary. And the moderators here have deleted or hidden many threads over the years that have crossed the line. I would have thought that most of those really old threads would have sunk to the bottom of the forum pile. But it you're finding them, or others are finding them and pointing them out to you, and you're finding them impossible to ignore, then clearly there are more that we need to address.

 

On 3/30/2024 at 10:08 AM, TinyLove_CJ said:

     Older threads that haven't been active for a long time eventually get "pushed" way back down amongst the topic pages and in affect are ignored by members anyway because they're no longer prominent at the top of a page.

 

   I agree with Hero's statement in regards to avoiding certain threads. It's really no different to social media. When you're busy scrolling and you see something you don't like, you can easily choose to ignore it and move on. You can also report and block. You don't have to read every post simply because it happens to be there.

   It's the same here on MFC, if there's something you're not interested in don't follow it. If there's something genuinely concerning then we do have the report function (and I assure you all reports get looked into), anything too over the top or extremely offensive it's best to contact a mod and so discussions can be done privately.

 

   You say deleting is easy and takes just a minute. Yes it is, but here it's also not. Once something is deleted on MFC it is gone for good and the data is unrecoverable. I can understand that in some instances this is the right thing to do but on the other hand there might be information in a thread that might just be needed.

   I may have a solution to this. Threads can be hidden by mods and once they're hidden members can no longer see them within the topic sections or search for them. Mods can still see hidden threads, so just in case there is something a member is looking for but can't find it and is wondering "is this hidden?" they could still contact a mod to answer any questions they have.

 

   There is also the option of archiving threads and closing them to further replies. Archived threads can still be open too but they won't appear in search results are often harder to find anyway.

 

 

   I think Roz may be referring to older threads/posts, there's definitely some rather controversial topics between 2007-2010 that I've come across.

 

I don't think it would be too much of a shame if those did get deleted. This is definitely a discussion the Mod team will have!

 

I think CJ's solution to hide or archive older threads is a good one. It may take some time, but it's definitely do-able.

 

 

On 3/30/2024 at 12:32 PM, Jolio Drept said:

I'm still convinced that a live event or other key moment to discuss the more systemic problems is a good idea for "licking the abscess". There are only a few of us here who make the effort to use the forum to initiate discussion, but many young people won't, and a dedicated live session could bridge the gap between forum members and young people in the networks.

 

In any case, thanks to the junior moderators for their answers, it's important to be able to exchange ideas if we hope to see the lines move. 

 

I have never said that the website couldn't be improved -- it could be, for sure. And we have been working behind the scenes to do that. I'd love to have a proper MFC app, and a graphic designer, and a website rebuild. But our resources are limited, so it's not possible to immediately make the sweeping changes that some of you seem to think we need. If we were run by Mika's label, I suppose it would be different. 

 

I'd be willing to have a discussion during an Instagram Live, if you think that would work. But I have found in the 4+ years that I have been doing the lives, people are often too shy to speak up, so perhaps Charlotte's idea of creating a list of questionable threads is better? I have brought up the subject of modernizing / improving the forum and the fan club many times, both here on the forum itself and during the Instagram Lives. I even did a survey a few months ago about how to improve the Instagram Lives. I am very open to constructive criticism. Every week on the IG live I invite people to share suggestions and give me feedback. Very few ever do, but when I do get feedback I take it into consideration and try to implement the suggestions if they are feasible. I'm not always able to do everything that's suggested, though, for various reasons -- primarily time and money limitations, although sometimes other factors come into play. We are, as you know, Mika's official fan club, and that can also be limiting in some ways. 

 

In any case, I appreciate your willingness to share your thoughts here, and I agree with you that exchanging ideas like this is the way to effect change.

 

On 3/30/2024 at 1:54 PM, carafon said:

If it's technicaly possible , it may be easier for people to navigate if you change the place of the topics and "promote" the ones who are the most interresting depending of mika's activity

I mean , the concerts topics at the top of the list when he's on tour , the media ones when he's doing a tv  show , the discussions about lyrics when an album is out and so on ......

And maybe change some topics tittle to make them  more intuitive

It probably was my fault because I'm mainly using the "unread content" button  ......... but I remember at the beginning I didn't get the difference of the concerts topics 'before the show" and " review" .

It also could be more friendly to give a good spot to the presentation topics  ? where people could ask how to find their way 

 

 

Thanks, Jo. We have been looking at these sorts of things, just as you suggest. Reorganizing threads and sections and just generally trying to rethink the best way to present the information within the forum limitations. And we are working on some tutorial videos that we hope will make things clearer, too. With Mika on tour, and real-life demands, however, the wheels of progress often don't turn as fast as we would hope.

 

 

[Joanjettkinnie]

Hey,

So i’ve noticed that I’ve been getting notifications for topics that I haven’t chosen to follow (For example i’m getting notifications for the Berlin venue, even though i haven’t followed or written under it) and I was wondering how to change that?? 

[silver]

20 minutes ago, Joanjettkinnie said:

Hey,

So i’ve noticed that I’ve been getting notifications for topics that I haven’t chosen to follow (For example i’m getting notifications for the Berlin venue, even though i haven’t followed or written under it) and I was wondering how to change that?? 

 

It's possible that you have accidentally followed a forum (eg Before the Show) rather than an individual topic.  You can check this by clicking on your profile, then going into Settings. Choose Manage Followed Content and see if Forums shows any followed.  You can change notifications there.  You can also check Topics and alter notifications.

[Jolio Drept]

21 hours ago, dcdeb said:

Catching up to this conversation now...

 

 

I absolutely agree with you that such fantasies, things like explicit fan fiction, etc. should stay in private. Why people would ever want to put that sort of thing out in public is beyond me -- it's like publishing your diary. And the moderators here have deleted or hidden many threads over the years that have crossed the line. I would have thought that most of those really old threads would have sunk to the bottom of the forum pile. But it you're finding them, or others are finding them and pointing them out to you, and you're finding them impossible to ignore, then clearly there are more that we need to address.

 

 

Thank you Deb for that reply. I hope Easter was a good one. 

 

I hope that through dialogue we'll be able to make this fandom a friendlier place where the different generations can talk to each other. 

 

I had another example today, when I was simply looking for the date of an Xfactor live show, and I came face to face with a gravelly joke, which is typically the kind of content that needs to be dealt with. Nothing serious in the end, but I really don't want to see zooms (blurred out of respect) like this one when I'm just looking for information, especially on a recent thread. I'm not targeting anyone here, we can all make jokes, but maybe this forum isn't the right place for them. And maybe I'm wrong, I don't know.

 

I'm with you on the live idea, maybe people would be too shy, but maybe it's worth a try, otherwise simply collecting opinions via a poll could already be an added value for the rest of the forum.

 

I'll keep trying to draw up a short list of problem threads and we can discuss them again. One last question: is the "report" button functional? Can we use it to report a thread or content that seems problematic?

 

Have a nice evening!

 

 

[TinyLove_CJ]

32 minutes ago, Jolio Drept said:

One last question: is the "report" button functional?

  I can assure you it is and all reports are looked into by a member of the mod team. Anything thought to be extremely concerning is discussed by the whole team privately. 

 

   We do allow mild innuendo jokes on the forum, however some may be crossing a line. With the picture you shared above I can understand what you mean about it being inappropriate, maybe this can also be a further discussion to perhaps discourage such comments in the future.

[CharlotteL]

16 hours ago, Jolio Drept said:

I'll keep trying to draw up a short list of problem threads and we can discuss them again. One last question: is the "report" button functional? Can we use it to report a thread or content that seems problematic?

As CJ said, yes the report button is functional as far as I'm aware. We don't get a lot of reports though.

So I have an idea: Why don't you just try it out? If you want, report that post that you took a screenshot off and we'll see what happens

That would be helpful for us because then we can look at the post directly. With only the screenshot, we have no idea how to even find the post. And instead of giving us detailed instructions where you found it, it's much easier to just click report! Thank you.