The Appleman : The Return of the Jedi (part 3)

[kjoshi]

Nico_collard, Deb, thanks for elaborating.

 

 

 

It doesn't matter, posting the other ids was still too much.

 

And unless Cynthia's other ids had a habit of starting goodbye threads, I don't see how a single post in one now was in any way related to any previous action. I do not believe that in themselves, any of the posts in the Drama goodbye thread could possibly be worth being banned, or were even at all offensive.

 

If the mods had issues with Cynthia before, they should have banned her then, for whatever issues they were. (Same for Kata and Yop.) Not for ostensibly provoking them with the "final straw" of politely wishing goodbye.

 

Anyway, I am just really tired of all this now, and would like to say I am also out of here.

 

Not quite as dramatically, and I'm not saying "out of here" for good, but I can't stand the forums they way they are now, I don't trust a lot of the moderating team, and I feel extremely uncomfortable here in the current atmosphere.

 

--Jack

 

P.S. This is where I could have used the Drama Goodbye thread, as I feel making my own is silly and do not want to make a ton of announcements on other threads, but it would be nice if other people knew that I left for a while if they start to wonder where I am.

 

Bye Jack!!! You will be missed!!

[Aaurora]

I wrote this for that 'rhyming thread' but didn't know if they would understand

 

Not wanting to waste my 1 minute of brain power, here is a little ditty.

 

Losing friends, saying goodbye

A forum in disarray

The rest try to carry on

Hoping for yesterday

[Pam Travers]

 

 

If the mods had issues with Cynthia before, they should have banned her then, for whatever issues they were. (Same for Kata and Yop.) Not for ostensibly provoking them with the "final straw" of politely wishing goodbye.

 

Anyway, I am just really tired of all this now, and would like to say I am also out of here.

 

Not quite as dramatically, and I'm not saying "out of here" for good, but I can't stand the forums they way they are now, I don't trust a lot of the moderating team, and I feel extremely uncomfortable here in the current atmosphere.

 

--Jack

 

 

 

the issues were probably personal= they couldnt have them out of here before and had to wait until they did "something wrong" and had some vague valid excuse to ban them

 

it's only sad that you are out of here, you are making it easier for some people who dont deserve it and who should be questioning themselves, i hope you'll change your mind.

 

i nver went to the apple thread but someone I know told me about what it was and it's a very good thread, i hope sooner or later everything will be ok and you all can have fun again in the apple thread.

[Blue Sky]

I am not a "true" apple, but can I just say on the apple thread, after a manic work day with totally no MFC yesterday, I came on here today to find only 2 of my subscribed threads in the top 2 pages. That is a first.

 

I found a couple of posts by the people whose opinions I really want to hear on a few other threads.

 

Nothing else of particular interest.

 

The saddest thing for me this week is that we have not only lost the people who were banned (ostensibly for a week, but I doubt we will see them back on here) we have, in the process, lost a lot of the other intelligent posters whose contributions were extremely valuable.

 

When there is this much anxiety and distrust on the forum, lots of people just quietly choose not to come back. They don't say goodbye and make a thread for it, but WE ARE LOSING VALUABLE MFCers.

 

That is a travesty.

 

I don't have any other way of interacting with these people except for MFC (no msn or whatever) so I feel like I have lost some good friends now(albeit cyber-friends).

 

I hope the mods and everyone who complained about the posts that got the bans will do some serious self-reflection here. Do you only want a forum of 13 year old fan girls, as our official forum? Notice I still say "our". I have been here over a year now. I wasn't planning to go anywhere else but this week....hmmmm.....I wake up most days now thinking "what drama has happened on MFC while Japan slept...."

 

Sad.

 

This used to be such a fun place.

[Christine]

*Sigh*

[sienna]

I am not a "true" apple, but can I just say on the apple thread, after a manic work day with totally no MFC yesterday, I came on here today to find only 2 of my subscribed threads in the top 2 pages. That is a first.

 

I found a couple of posts by the people whose opinions I really want to hear on a few other threads.

 

Nothing else of particular interest.

 

The saddest thing for me this week is that we have not only lost the people who were banned (ostensibly for a week, but I doubt we will see them back on here) we have, in the process, lost a lot of the other intelligent posters whose contributions were extremely valuable.

When there is this much anxiety and distrust on the forum, lots of people just quietly choose not to come back. They don't say goodbye and make a thread for it, but WE ARE LOSING VALUABLE MFCers.

 

That is a travesty.

 

I don't have any other way of interacting with these people except for MFC (no msn or whatever) so I feel like I have lost some good friends now(albeit cyber-friends).

I hope the mods and everyone who complained about the posts that got the bans will do some serious self-reflection here. Do you only want a forum of 13 year old fan girls, as our official forum? Notice I still say "our". I have been here over a year now. I wasn't planning to go anywhere else but this week....hmmmm.....I wake up most days now thinking "what drama has happened on MFC while Japan slept...."

 

Sad.

 

This used to be such a fun place.

 

I agree so much in what you just said especially the highlighted lines!

 

I feel sad and I miss them so much!

[nico_collard]

Yeh that one was me DC , Im not perfect .. damn close though

 

Yeah... sure Freddie!

 

Bye for now, Jack...(on MFC anyway)

 

I am afraid that if I write:

 

"I agree with you" or "I don't blame you" or "I understand, because I feel the same way to a large degree" - that my words will be frowned upon and be used against me as a pattern of behaviour that is not wanted around here, because it would mean expressing the truth...so I will NOT express that.

 

I am not as strong as you.

 

At the same time however, there are still people here, I enjoy interacting with. And there are still many things about this forum that I love. I am staying because of those few things. And a part of me has great hope that things will turn around and improve. I hope to see you back at that time.

 

*I can see it now..someone thinking "there goes another Apple needing to express more drama...":naughty:

 

There goes another apple neeing to express more drama...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm kidding, of course...

 

I hope the mods and everyone who complained about the posts that got the bans will do some serious self-reflection here. Do you only want a forum of 13 year old fan girls, as our official forum? Notice I still say "our". I have been here over a year now. I wasn't planning to go anywhere else but this week....hmmmm.....I wake up most days now thinking "what drama has happened on MFC while Japan slept...."

 

Sad.

 

This used to be such a fun place.

 

I assure you BS, we constantly reflect on what we do... if we didn't we wouldn't be very good mods... we do it all the time...

 

But on the other hand, do we only want a forum full of people who post before they think or are incredibly abusive towards others (it's about a lot of people, not just those who were banned)? It's a mater of achieving balance...

 

And if they don't want to come back, that's their choice... no-one can force them to come back here...

 

If they do, I hope they also think about how they speak to others... it's important for everyone involved to think about how they acted during the weekend.. otherwise we can't grow and change, and can't learn how to do things differently...

 

But that's just my opinon... as a normal person...

[Blue Sky]

I appreciate you are a normal person Teegs, don't worry....and it requires more energy than I currently have to go into a discussion about power.

 

We have a forum composed mainly of women/girls. We behave like women/girls. And ultimately overseeing it all are a handful of men. (No offence intended, these are facts).

 

We come from all walks of life, all different countries and cultures, all ages, all levels of education and writing ability. Some of us have kids, some of us have PMS, some of us have serious medical issues which make life miserable. We are here, MAINLY because we wish to discuss MIKA and his music and his shows. (and goodness knows some people want to discuss a lot of other nonsense too, in my opinion wasting forum space and incurring higher running costs... which I have paid for by about $280 worth of donations to MFC...)

 

But dissent is an important freedom of speech. If we don't allow dissent, what do we allow? Censorship? How can I voice my discontent with the forum management when my posts can be censored by the very people I wish to disagree with?

 

Does my financial support (as well as pretty vocal and ongoing other support) of this forum ultimately count for anything? Do I walk away too, unhappy with the heavy-handedness of the people with the power? Transparency and accountability are very important for a self-governing group as we are.

 

I am not happy with the way people are playing in this sandbox. I feel like throwing a little sand. Will I be slapped and sent home?

[lilmot]

I am not a "true" apple, but can I just say on the apple thread, after a manic work day with totally no MFC yesterday, I came on here today to find only 2 of my subscribed threads in the top 2 pages. That is a first.

 

I found a couple of posts by the people whose opinions I really want to hear on a few other threads.

 

Nothing else of particular interest.

 

The saddest thing for me this week is that we have not only lost the people who were banned (ostensibly for a week, but I doubt we will see them back on here) we have, in the process, lost a lot of the other intelligent posters whose contributions were extremely valuable.

 

When there is this much anxiety and distrust on the forum, lots of people just quietly choose not to come back. They don't say goodbye and make a thread for it, but WE ARE LOSING VALUABLE MFCers.

 

That is a travesty.

 

I don't have any other way of interacting with these people except for MFC (no msn or whatever) so I feel like I have lost some good friends now(albeit cyber-friends).

 

I hope the mods and everyone who complained about the posts that got the bans will do some serious self-reflection here. Do you only want a forum of 13 year old fan girls, as our official forum? Notice I still say "our". I have been here over a year now. I wasn't planning to go anywhere else but this week....hmmmm.....I wake up most days now thinking "what drama has happened on MFC while Japan slept...."

 

Sad.

 

This used to be such a fun place.

 

I appreciate you are a normal person Teegs, don't worry....and it requires more energy than I currently have to go into a discussion about power.

 

We have a forum composed mainly of women/girls. We behave like women/girls. And ultimately overseeing it all are a handful of men. (No offence intended, these are facts).

 

We come from all walks of life, all different countries and cultures, all ages, all levels of education and writing ability. Some of us have kids, some of us have PMS, some of us have serious medical issues which make life miserable. We are here, MAINLY because we wish to discuss MIKA and his music and his shows. (and goodness knows some people want to discuss a lot of other nonsense too, in my opinion wasting forum space and incurring higher running costs... which I have paid for by about $280 worth of donations to MFC...)

 

But dissent is an important freedom of speech. If we don't allow dissent, what do we allow? Censorship? How can I voice my discontent with the forum management when my posts can be censored by the very people I wish to disagree with?

 

Does my financial support (as well as pretty vocal and ongoing other support) of this forum ultimately count for anything? Do I walk away too, unhappy with the heavy-handedness of the people with the power? Transparency and accountability are very important for a self-governing group as we are.

 

I am not happy with the way people are playing in this sandbox. I feel like throwing a little sand. Will I be slapped and sent home?

 

 

I couldn't agree with you more, Blue Sky. And I am very, very sad also. But I am also so angry at some of the mods here and how they have bullied and threatened people (including me) and gotton away with it all, that I can't even speak because of my anger. So, I am very happy that you have spoken for me also in such a graceful manner.

 

I am not an apple either and I feel rather bad even posting in this thread (that seemed rather sacred to the apples). But I don't know where else to post. They closed the good-bye thread so we can't say good-by to our many friends who are leaving so silently and peacefully, but they will be greatly missed. I think it is time that I leave also...at least for awhile. I wish I could run around the forum and say good-bye and give hugs to all the people I will greatly miss....(and I will miss a lot of you).

Take care everyone!! I hope to come back and visit sometime if I am not banned for showing that I still use my mind to make my own decisions on whom I trust and whom I don't trust and what I feel is right or not right. ps, I do have a couple of responsibilities here that I need to complete. I do plan on following through with these responsibilities over the next couple of weeks (in case anyone is wondering), unless, of course, I am banned, and then I will just say in advance....sorry!!???

[kjoshi]

I am not a "true" apple, but can I just say on the apple thread, after a manic work day with totally no MFC yesterday, I came on here today to find only 2 of my subscribed threads in the top 2 pages. That is a first.

 

I found a couple of posts by the people whose opinions I really want to hear on a few other threads.

 

Nothing else of particular interest.

 

The saddest thing for me this week is that we have not only lost the people who were banned (ostensibly for a week, but I doubt we will see them back on here) we have, in the process, lost a lot of the other intelligent posters whose contributions were extremely valuable.

 

When there is this much anxiety and distrust on the forum, lots of people just quietly choose not to come back. They don't say goodbye and make a thread for it, but WE ARE LOSING VALUABLE MFCers.

 

That is a travesty.

 

I don't have any other way of interacting with these people except for MFC (no msn or whatever) so I feel like I have lost some good friends now(albeit cyber-friends).

 

I hope the mods and everyone who complained about the posts that got the bans will do some serious self-reflection here. Do you only want a forum of 13 year old fan girls, as our official forum? Notice I still say "our". I have been here over a year now. I wasn't planning to go anywhere else but this week....hmmmm.....I wake up most days now thinking "what drama has happened on MFC while Japan slept...."

 

Sad.

 

This used to be such a fun place.

 

 

Yea I agree, it is extremely sad to lose people, specially to lose the few people that I talk to and have grown to really like. I'm not going to lie I did enjoy when they spiced up things on the forum instead of the usual i love mika he's perfect kinda stuff. Which is fine to have, not meaning to offend anyone, but it was just a nice change of scenery. It's a really sticky situation now. My fear is that things like this may start happening more often because of Mika's popularity rising and with us becoming official, if we do get benefits. because not everyone is going to be happy otherwise with they will be thousands of fans getting benefits or what ever is to come. So will we have fights like this everytime something happens. Will it always be a bitter-sweet thing?

 

lol sorry to sound like a drama queen...

 

*Sigh*

 

I join you in sighing

[DaMango]

Shoot, I'm sighing.... and crying.

[FREDDIESDOUBLE]

It is sad loosing people ....

 

Im not going to comment but have read everyones comments

 

Blue Sky .. I dont know what is such an issue with men running the MFC .. , maybe you can PM me with why you think thats a problem

 

If you look at the Mod structure .. its all females , I used to do DCdebs "job" but actually came away from it as I felt it needed more of a femine touch

 

Id be interested in hearing you comments

[Scut Monkey]

I assume we will give examples of what an inflammatory post would look like when we sort out the guidelines...

I hope so. I would appreciate some more well-defined rules. In the case of Kata, Yop and Cynthia there were no well-defined rules as to what merits banning so it was left to the mods to decide and many people here believe that the mods made the wrong decision. If there are rules it would be easier to settle cases such as these.

 

Anyway, I am just really tired of all this now, and would like to say I am also out of here.

 

Not quite as dramatically, and I'm not saying "out of here" for good, but I can't stand the forums they way they are now, I don't trust a lot of the moderating team, and I feel extremely uncomfortable here in the current atmosphere.

 

--Jack

 

P.S. This is where I could have used the Drama Goodbye thread, as I feel making my own is silly and do not want to make a ton of announcements on other threads, but it would be nice if other people knew that I left for a while if they start to wonder where I am.

 

The saddest thing for me this week is that we have not only lost the people who were banned (ostensibly for a week, but I doubt we will see them back on here) we have, in the process, lost a lot of the other intelligent posters whose contributions were extremely valuable.

 

When there is this much anxiety and distrust on the forum, lots of people just quietly choose not to come back. They don't say goodbye and make a thread for it, but WE ARE LOSING VALUABLE MFCers.

 

That is a travesty.

 

I don't have any other way of interacting with these people except for MFC (no msn or whatever) so I feel like I have lost some good friends now(albeit cyber-friends).

 

I hope the mods and everyone who complained about the posts that got the bans will do some serious self-reflection here. Do you only want a forum of 13 year old fan girls, as our official forum? Notice I still say "our". I have been here over a year now. I wasn't planning to go anywhere else but this week....hmmmm.....I wake up most days now thinking "what drama has happened on MFC while Japan slept...."

 

Sad.

 

This used to be such a fun place.

 

I couldn't agree with you more, Blue Sky. And I am very, very sad also. But I am also so angry at some of the mods here and how they have bullied and threatened people (including me) and gotton away with it all, that I can't even speak because of my anger. So, I am very happy that you have spoken for me also in such a graceful manner.

 

I am not an apple either and I feel rather bad even posting in this thread (that seemed rather sacred to the apples). But I don't know where else to post. They closed the good-bye thread so we can't say good-by to our many friends who are leaving so silently and peacefully, but they will be greatly missed. I think it is time that I leave also...at least for awhile. I wish I could run around the forum and say good-bye and give hugs to all the people I will greatly miss....(and I will miss a lot of you).

Take care everyone!! I hope to come back and visit sometime if I am not banned for showing that I still use my mind to make my own decisions on whom I trust and whom I don't trust and what I feel is right or not right. ps, I do have a couple of responsibilities here that I need to complete. I do plan on following through with these responsibilities over the next couple of weeks (in case anyone is wondering), unless, of course, I am banned, and then I will just say in advance....sorry!!???

While it's sad to lose contact with your friends I think that taking a break is a good thing sometimes because it allows one to cool down and reflect. I took a month off recently and have only been back for a short while and I'm already reconsidering why I came back.

 

I think that I'll stick around for a while until the news about becoming official is published then I'll take a break of my own. Hopefully when I come back everyone will have cooled down and the mod and admin teams will have reflected on the way that they have handled matters recently and find ways to improve the way this forum is 'ruled'.

[elanorelle]

either I have been out of the loop, but can someone please tell me what is going on?

 

I love all you guys and value inputs and everything and I am remaining very much of this place. I guess I haven't read enough to know what is going on.

please inform me so I can be of help or something. Remember I love you guys who are leaving..........you can be sure I know your email addies and don't be afraid to contact me.

[nico_collard]

I appreciate you are a normal person Teegs, don't worry....and it requires more energy than I currently have to go into a discussion about power.

 

We have a forum composed mainly of women/girls. We behave like women/girls. And ultimately overseeing it all are a handful of men. (No offence intended, these are facts).

 

We come from all walks of life, all different countries and cultures, all ages, all levels of education and writing ability. Some of us have kids, some of us have PMS, some of us have serious medical issues which make life miserable. We are here, MAINLY because we wish to discuss MIKA and his music and his shows. (and goodness knows some people want to discuss a lot of other nonsense too, in my opinion wasting forum space and incurring higher running costs... which I have paid for by about $280 worth of donations to MFC...)

 

But dissent is an important freedom of speech. If we don't allow dissent, what do we allow? Censorship? How can I voice my discontent with the forum management when my posts can be censored by the very people I wish to disagree with?

 

Does my financial support (as well as pretty vocal and ongoing other support) of this forum ultimately count for anything? Do I walk away too, unhappy with the heavy-handedness of the people with the power? Transparency and accountability are very important for a self-governing group as we are.

 

I am not happy with the way people are playing in this sandbox. I feel like throwing a little sand. Will I be slapped and sent home?

 

I just want to say... 2 men is not really a handful IMO... unless some of the mods have grown male bits ...

 

I especially want to comment on the bold bit...

 

None of the mod team is saying people can't speak their minds... if we we dd that, none of the Australians would be able to bitch and complain how Mika is totally neglecting us.. thething is, people can say what they think, but in a way that's not offensive to other people... it's common courtesy for one (and not censorship IMO)...

 

 

 

Generally speaking... It's not what people say, it's how they say it...

 

For example (and I will apologise in advance to the Americans if I offend you, it's not my intent)...

 

If I were to say something along the lines of "I hate you Americans because you don't know what you're talking about and you're stupid!" because I was having a discussion with an American on here - would that not be rude? I mean, it might be my opinion, but it would offend every single American on here.. besides that, i could quite easily get a ban (or at least an infraction)...

 

I could instead say something along the lines of "I don't agree with you, how much do you actualyl know on this subject?"... it's saying exactly the same thing as in the first sentence, but in a nicer way...

 

 

And I'd just like to say again, I'm sorry to any Americans on here, I didn't mean to offend you... it was the first country that came to mind... - I love you guys!

 

I couldn't agree with you more, Blue Sky. And I am very, very sad also. But I am also so angry at some of the mods here and how they have bullied and threatened people (including me) and gotton away with it all, that I can't even speak because of my anger. So, I am very happy that you have spoken for me also in such a graceful manner.

 

I am not an apple either and I feel rather bad even posting in this thread (that seemed rather sacred to the apples). But I don't know where else to post. They closed the good-bye thread so we can't say good-by to our many friends who are leaving so silently and peacefully, but they will be greatly missed. I think it is time that I leave also...at least for awhile. I wish I could run around the forum and say good-bye and give hugs to all the people I will greatly miss....(and I will miss a lot of you).

Take care everyone!! I hope to come back and visit sometime if I am not banned for showing that I still use my mind to make my own decisions on whom I trust and whom I don't trust and what I feel is right or not right. ps, I do have a couple of responsibilities here that I need to complete. I do plan on following through with these responsibilities over the next couple of weeks (in case anyone is wondering), unless, of course, I am banned, and then I will just say in advance....sorry!!???

 

That's quite a strong accusation to make lilmot... if you feel one of the mods has bullied you, I would like to hear about it... as would Deb...

 

I would like to say... what makes people think we go around banning people for nothing? If you were a part of what happened other the weekend, you would fully understand why people are banned... we don't ban people because we like to... there are very good reasons for doing so... no-one like to ban people...

 

Yea I agree, it is extremely sad to lose people, specially to lose the few people that I talk to and have grown to really like. I'm not going to lie I did enjoy when they spiced up things on the forum instead of the usual i love mika he's perfect kinda stuff. Which is fine to have, not meaning to offend anyone, but it was just a nice change of scenery. It's a really sticky situation now. My fear is that things like this may start happening more often because of Mika's popularity rising and with us becoming official, if we do get benefits. because not everyone is going to be happy otherwise with they will be thousands of fans getting benefits or what ever is to come. So will we have fights like this everytime something happens. Will it always be a bitter-sweet thing?

 

lol sorry to sound like a drama queen...

 

 

 

I join you in sighing

 

Can I ask something? Not just to kjoshi of course, but to everyone on here... do we really want a forum full of cynics, and generally horrible people?

 

I mean, really?

 

Because if that's what you want, there won't be many people left on here... it's not just fangirls and cynics... there are a range of people on here, and to label people as fangirls just because they don't criticise (contrsutive or not) Mika is not fair...

 

I think you'd find that the vast majority of people on here don't go to either end of the spectrum, they sit somewhere in the middle...and depending on the situation, occasionally venture into fangirlishness, or to the other end and become cynical...

 

I hope so. I would appreciate some more well-defined rules. In the case of Kata, Yop and Cynthia there were no well-defined rules as to what merits banning so it was left to the mods to decide and many people here believe that the mods made the wrong decision. If there are rules it would be easier to settle cases such as these.

 

 

 

 

 

 

While it's sad to lose contact with your friends I think that taking a break is a good thing sometimes because it allows one to cool down and reflect. I took a month off recently and have only been back for a short while and I'm already reconsidering why I came back.

 

I think that I'll stick around for a while until the news about becoming official is published then I'll take a break of my own. Hopefully when I come back everyone will have cooled down and the mod and admin teams will have reflected on the way that they have handled matters recently and find ways to improve the way this forum is 'ruled'.

 

Obviously, once clearly defined guidelines are in place the issue of "to ban or not to ban" will be a lot easier to decide...

 

People are well within thier rights to quesstion whether they think we are doing the right thing... it also gives us a chance to reflect and see if we could have done anything better or if we did everything right... possible suggestions might be more helpful than flat out criticisms though (that's not directed at the situation over the weekend, more at previous arguments)...

 

As long as people understand and appreciate that moderating is a very difficult job, and we do have to make unpopular decisons, it's okay...

 

either I have been out of the loop, but can someone please tell me what is going on?

 

I love all you guys and value inputs and everything and I am remaining very much of this place. I guess I haven't read enough to know what is going on.

please inform me so I can be of help or something. Remember I love you guys who are leaving..........you can be sure I know your email addies and don't be afraid to contact me.

 

Bannings, people questioning if the mods did the right thing... the usual

[Scut Monkey]

It's not what people say, it's how they say it...

 

For example (and I will apologise in advance to the Americans if I offend you, it's not my intent)...

 

If I were to say something along the lines of "I hate you Americans because you don't know what you're talking about and you're stupid!" because I was having a discussion with an American on here - would that not be rude? I mean, it might be my opinion, but it would offend every single American on here.. besides that, i could quite easily get a ban (or at least an infraction)...

 

I could instead say something along the lines of "I don't agree with you, how much do you actualyl know on this subject?"... it's saying exactly the same thing as in the first sentence, but in a nicer way...

 

 

And I'd just like to say again, I'm sorry to any Americans on here, I didn't mean to offend you... it was the first country that came to mind... - I love you guys!

That analogy isn't useful as it looks at an example of extreme manner which the consequences of aren't disputed. We're looking at a situation where people posted what's in their right to post (a goodbye) in a manner that was respectful enough (all they did was say that they're tired of drama, which is a far cry from your example) and it was deemed 'the last straw' and they were told "if you want to leave we'll help you out with it and ban you" and they were banned. If you're going to use examples, Teegs, it'd be preferable it if they were equally ambigous and disputable as the current events.

[nico_collard]

First of all... the example has to do with how people say things... it has nothing to do with the bannings... if I wanted to address that, I would have done an example with a comment that was ambiguous...

 

The bannings had nothing to do with the goodbye thread... as it has already been mentioned... you already know that...

 

It's a pattern of behaviour...they had already been given warnings and continued to carry on as they were... obviously warnings weren't going to make them alter their behaviour...

 

If we were to give people warnings all the time, do you think people would listen? No, they would ignore it...

 

 

 

 

And on a general matter...

 

I don't understand how only the mods must reflect on their behaviour... as I said before, they need to too... why must only the mods be forced to alter their behaviour, and why can't people think about how they're saying before they hit the submit button and take some responsibility for what they write when they get in trouble?

 

No-one seems willing to take responsibility for what they put out there... if I write something that insults someone else, I change it... it's not that difficult!

[Christine]

either I have been out of the loop, but can someone please tell me what is going on?

 

I love all you guys and value inputs and everything and I am remaining very much of this place. I guess I haven't read enough to know what is going on.

please inform me so I can be of help or something. Remember I love you guys who are leaving..........you can be sure I know your email addies and don't be afraid to contact me.

 

The London gigs were fantastic but they were also stressful for many reasons and that naturally spilled into the forum when those of us who were there started reporting back. Normally I would advise people to leave real life at the door when they come in here and not use the forum as a place to vent or whatever but a lot of us are upset about and disapproving of things that happened at Mika's concerts and with other fans. We're not here to kick the cat because we had a bad day at the office.

 

We have every right to discuss the various problems surrounding Mika's gigs on MFC no matter how unpleasant it is for some people to hear the truth. It's not my fault that Mika was so surrounded by people who disrespected his explicit requests to back off and allow him a break that he was completely immobilized.

 

If pointing out the facts makes people uncomfortable, too bad. It needs to be said instead of all of MFC being led to believe the after party was the greatest thing that could ever happen to a Mika fan.

 

It is evident in the after party thread that there were already attempts to suppress negative comments before anyone at the party was able to report back directly. All the patronizing comments about being so lucky to be there regardless of the outcome, people in positions of authority who weren't even there spreading misinformation about the circumstances in PM, telling us that there's no point in discussing it publicly since the people who caused the problems won't listen - none of this diffuses the "drama". All it does is escalate an already volatile situation by invalidating people's feelings and making them frustrated and angry.

 

There have been several times on MFC when myself and others have been accused of sh*t disturbing and creating unnecessary drama, but I am tired of taking responsibility for the fact that other people don't know how to react appropriately when something happens on this forum that isn't all sunshine and rainbows.

 

I don't know what complaints were made about Kata for instance, but instead of banning her, maybe just once the response could be to tell the oversensitive overreactionaries to just suck it up and deal with it.

 

We're talking about three veteran posters and serious Mika fans here. They should not be forced out of Mika's fan club on the whim of some unnamed accusers and inexperienced mods.

[Scut Monkey]

We have a forum composed mainly of women/girls. We behave like women/girls. And ultimately overseeing it all are a handful of men. (No offence intended, these are facts).

 

We come from all walks of life, all different countries and cultures, all ages, all levels of education and writing ability. Some of us have kids, some of us have PMS, some of us have serious medical issues which make life miserable. We are here, MAINLY because we wish to discuss MIKA and his music and his shows.

I'm sorry, BS, but I disagree with you on that point. I think that it's not fair imply that a man is less capable of running the MFC because the forum is composed of mostly women, and I feel that it's a tad sexist. As you have highlighted, "we come from all different countries and cultures, all ages, all levels of education and writing ability", being female is one thing that most of the posters have in common but they differ in so many other factors that I don't believe it disadvantages a male mod or admin significantly.

[nico_collard]

Scut I have an example for you...

 

 

If I were to give you an infaction (for example) for antagonising the moderators, would you take any notice of it? I doubt you would... if it ended up being a pattern of behaviour, let's say, you were pissing off the mods everyday for a month... and generally, you were affecting the whole forum cause of your comments, we could ban you... you'd certainly taake notice of that..

is that specific enough?

[Christine]

And on a general matter...

 

I don't understand how only the mods must reflect on their behaviour... as I said before, they need to too... why must only the mods be forced to alter their behaviour, and why can't people think about how they're saying before they hit the submit button and take some responsibility for what they write when they get in trouble?

 

I agree with you if you're talking about insults but I was feeling ordered around in the after party thread by someone telling me I shouldn't be giving my versions of events because it makes others feel bad.

 

I waited several days to make a post because I didn't want to do so in the heat of anger and I made nothing approaching an insult. Even I wanted to name names, I wasn't close enough to Mika to see who was clinging to him so I'm not blaming anyone in particular.

 

These situations escalate out of control with that kind of thought policing because it makes people understandably frustrated and angry.

[nico_collard]

The London gigs were fantastic but they were also stressful for many reasons and that naturally spilled into the forum when those of us who were there started reporting back. Normally I would advise people to leave real life at the door when they come in here and not use the forum as a place to vent or whatever but a lot of us are upset about and disapproving of things that happened at Mika's concerts and with other fans. We're not here to kick the cat because we had a bad day at the office.

 

We have every right to discuss the various problems surrounding Mika's gigs on MFC no matter how unpleasant it is for some people to hear the truth. It's not my fault that Mika was so surrounded by people who disrespected his explicit requests to back off and allow him a break that he was completely immobilized.

 

If pointing out the facts makes people uncomfortable, too bad. It needs to be said instead of all of MFC being led to believe the after party was the greatest thing that could ever happen to a Mika fan.

 

It is evident in the after party thread that there were already attempts to suppress negative comments before anyone at the party was able to report back directly. All the patronizing comments about being so lucky to be there regardless of the outcome, people in positions of authority who weren't even there spreading misinformation about the circumstances in PM, telling us that there's no point in discussing it publicly since the people who caused the problems won't listen - none of this diffuses the "drama". All it does is escalate an already volatile situation by invalidating people's feelings and making them frustrated and angry.

 

There have been several times on MFC when myself and others have been accused of sh*t disturbing and creating unnecessary drama, but I am tired of taking responsibility for the fact that other people don't know how to react appropriately when something happens on this forum that isn't all sunshine and rainbows.

 

I don't know what complaints were made about Kata for instance, but instead of banning her, maybe just once the response could be to tell the oversensitive overreactionaries to just suck it up and deal with it.

 

We're talking about three veteran posters and serious Mika fans here. They should not be forced out of Mika's fan club on the whim of some unnamed accusers and inexperienced mods.

 

Question: What makes you think that the complaints made about kata weren't warranted?

 

The bold bit: As you said... people not in authority... if I know that people had no right to say that people should suck it up and think they were damn lucky to go to the party, and I saw that people said they had the right to complain... people could speak to those making the optimistic comments... by PM perhaps?

 

Obvviously iit didn;t work to say on the thread that people weren't being helpful saying "You should count yourself lucky to be there"...

 

 

Fair enough, if people don't like someone making a slightly negative post, that's their problem.. but at the same time, people should think before they post... there were some pretty nasty things said in that thread...

[Suzy]

For me and many others, it's no longer simply about the banning. The decision with banning Yop, Cynthia and Kata, may have ultimately been the correct one (because apparenty there are more details that cannot be brought to light). And they can come back in a few days...

 

But... it is in the manner that it was carried out.

 

Secondly, from what has come to light to me from many members through PMs and other channels of communication, it is also about a handful of many other examples of questionable actions by mods, and administration that in isolation can quickly be dismissed as a "one-off". But as I continue to receive more instances of these so-called "one-offs", things start to add up, and one can't help seeing a pattern.

 

Now I am in the position where I cannot reveal the (behind-the-scenes details) in which many, long-time, non-apples, have come to me in confidence with matters they obviously cannot share with mods or administration because it is about a certain mod/administrator.

 

I was ready to get over this negativity looming in my head already last night before going to bed, only to wake up and learn there is more validity to my concerns than originally thought.

 

 

I think ultimately we need to decide on one of two things:

 

(1) We accept authority around here without question.

 

Regarding men in power, Blue Sky might be making an observation that in a forum full of women and their drama, its ironic that the ultimate power is a man to decide who wins the argument. A mod can be in the centre of a "cat-fight", but we as regular members will always lose out on an argument because Administration will always side with his mod team as they stress the importance of a united front. Whether it be a man or woman in ultimate control, we are ultimately at the mercy of that one person making the final decision.

 

We all play the game the way its wanted to be played and censor some or all of our dissent regarding mods and administration (because I'm not referring to gigs cancelled or wanting an autograph). We do this because we are afraid of being labelled as "sh**-stirrers" and get a reputation and continue to receive what may seem like biased mod action.

 

 

 

So we take all this, and dismiss it because we have no choice really. We get shut down when we complain.

 

 

 

OR

 

 

(2) The challenging part - we get some sort of system in place where we can diplomatically voice our concern about mods/administration.

 

I really don't believe this is possible. This whole forum thing is a "take-it-or leave-it" kind of deal. There isn't a voting democracy here that is possible.

 

 

At the end of the day....I will continue to play the game. I still like this place.

 

Everyone is human. Everyone makes mistakes. I'm going to err on the side of giving eveyone a second, third, and fourth chances, etc.....God knows I've needed this before.

[nico_collard]

I agree with you if you're talking about insults but I was feeling ordered around in the after party thread by someone telling me I shouldn't be giving my versions of events because it makes others feel bad.

 

I waited several days to make a post because I didn't want to do so in the heat of anger and I made nothing approaching an insult. Even I wanted to name names, I wasn't close enough to Mika to see who was clinging to him so I'm not blaming anyone in particular.

 

These situations escalate out of control with that kind of thought policing because it makes people understandably frustrated and angry.

 

By a mod or someone else?

 

If it were a mod, then I'd be concerned... but if it were someone else, you could hav come and spoken to me... or another mod... you know I'll always listen to you (even if I don't agree with you all the time)...

 

 

It frustrates me when people let things go, and when something big happens, all the complaints come out... we could have easily gotten this sorted if people came to us and said "I'm really bothered by so and so saying I should feel grateful"...

 

There's little point complaining now when we can't do anything about it... I'm sure any one of us would have told the "happy sunshine people" to let others complain if people had come to us...

 

THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HERE FOR!

 

 

 

Besides... other people need to learn hw to mind their own business... if something needs to be modded they should talk to us, not take matters into their own hands...

[Scut Monkey]

The bannings had nothing to do with the goodbye thread... as it has already been mentioned... you already know that...

I was told that the goodbye thread was "the last straw" in "a pattern of behaviour". As far as Kata's, Yop's and Cynthia's public posts go I have seen nothing that would merit banning so I can only assume that the "pattern of behaviour" occured behind-the-scenes in PMs etc. One thing for sure in my eyes, though, is that their goodbye thread posts where they said goodbye to the MFC's drama and in fact were performing an act of removing themselves from trouble could be deemed "a last straw" nor precipitate a mod posting an even more dramatic post along the lines of "if you want to leave then we'll help you by banning you".

 

I don't understand how only the mods must reflect on their behaviour... as I said before, they need to too... why must only the mods be forced to alter their behaviour, and why can't people think about how they're saying before they hit the submit button and take some responsibility for what they write when they get in trouble?

 

No-one seems willing to take responsibility for what they put out there... if I write something that insults someone else, I change it... it's not that difficult!

I believe that everyone needs to reflect on their behaviour, which is why I'm not against people taking a break from the MFC to cool down. But the mods' reflecting and making improvements is more important than any other member's because they carry the responsibility of deciding what is fair and right in this forum and anyone with that power needs to think especially long and hard.

 

And trust me, in the current atmosphere where some people believe that others were treated unfairly there are very few people here who aren't thinking about what they're saying before they hit 'submit', in fear of also being unfairly treated if anything. I personally don't like the atmosphere of fear and distrust and I hope that the faith in our mods and admins will be restored enough for people to feel that they can freely express themselves.

 

As for your comment "if I write something that insults someone else, I change it" that goes back to the argument: what if you post something that's within your right to post yet someone is offended by it? If you've done nothing 'wrong' yet someone is offended, what should be done? Should you change it and sacrifice your right to keep another person happy? Those are hard questions to answer. Yet, as mods, it is your job to resolve situations like that. What is your policy, and if you don't currently have one what will it be?