Queuing for GA gigs - thoughts, feedback, suggestions?

[lollipop_monkey]

So far in 2009, we've had LA, Berlin, Brussels, Milan and NYC where there was General Admission (GA) access to the venues; where fans queue before the show, and are let in to select their spots inside the venue on a first come, first served basis.

 

And prior to 2009, the vast majorty of Mika's gigs have been GA.

 

This year, we've been trying to stick to a system where fans are given numbers based upon the order in which they arrive, and have been trying to ensure access is granted based on number order.

 

So, this thread is to discuss your thoughts and feelings about these queues, what worked, what didn't work, and any ideas you might have to make things better.

Edited June 25, 2009 by lollipop_monkey

[lollipop_monkey]

~Discussion moved from the NYC gig report thread~

It was the exact same system in New York, the only difference being, in NY there were a few assholes who decided that they would try their luck, and we didn't get any of those in Milan. Same as in Berlin: some people were chancers. For some reason, in Milan they were a lot better behaved than in the other places.

But I totally agree about Robertina, she did a stellar job and it did sadden me that she ended up at the back. She should have had a spot saved in the position that corresponded to her order of arrival .

 

Milan and NYC both had a two-step queueing system where everyone was lined up, then moved to a new queue immediately outside the venue doors.

 

The problem with NYC is that when they moved the queue into the bar, there wasn't the physical space to keep everyone lined up single file. So people started crowding the door, and a few chancers decided they'd hang around by the front and try their luck.

 

It was also bad because the merch table was right beside the doors, so people could plant themselves by the doors under the pretext that they were waiting for a friend buying merch, etc.

 

What happened then is that people with numbers in the 50+ range saw these chancers right by the doors who may not have had numbers at all, got nervous, and started milling around the door themselves. As soon as a few people stop trusting the organization of the whole thing, everyone starts looking out for him or herself, choosing to plant themselves as close to the door as possible rather than allowing some random person who waltzed up at 7:45 pm to get in ahead. When everyone got into that mindset, however, there was no way anyone was willing to move back and try to get back into the numbered order.

 

We were lucky because security had originally said something about opening two doors, which would have been total mayhem. The fact they agreed to check numbers while letting people in was the real saving grace.

Edited June 25, 2009 by lollipop_monkey

[sariflor]

Agree with Mana that the physical layout of NY was never going to work, but here is what I wrote in the NYC thread about that :

 

 

Quote:

 

Originally Posted by Christine

I think the need for the queue organization depends on the venue. It wasn't needed at the Kool Haus for instance. But Jack had warned me about Le Poisson Rouge's policy of leading people into the bar area before the gig where the queue order became entirely useless so we knew that the numbering system would be critical.

 

Much thanks to Standard Toaster who worked tirelessly with the security to get them to assist and for Holly and Lucy who laid the groundwork the night before by developing a rapport with the staff at the venue.

 

I am SO glad that security abided the numbering as we went through the doors as I was worried the MFCers behind me were going to get shafted as the chancers surrounding us were trying to squeeze their way in on the pretext of having nowhere else to go. From all accounts they were allowed in in the proper order and I saw all the queuers had great spots at the front.

 

 

 

It's a mix of both, I find. Of course in cases like LPR, where they put the first 150 people into the tiny bar, it will always be a problem, but in other places where people are expected to form a 'regular' queue (like the venue in Berlin for example), it also boils down to the type of people who turn up.

 

Berlin was horrendous. Once they started moving things at the door, people who had arrived around 5 or 6 pm decided to stand there blocking everything, and were refusing to move when asked to.

It was similar to the situation at the bar in NY, with tons of people piled up, and with many bluntly saying that they were refusing to move and that was that.

If security (and John) hadn't been in it with us, and had kept shouting that they would check the names and the numbers, it would have been terrible. These people were physically pushing in, and not going anywhere.

 

So yes, certain venues will be a problem from the word go, just based on layout and procedures, but others will be variable depending on the type of people who are there.

 

In Milan we had a similar setup to NY in a way, in the sense that we all entered the foyer and then had to queue for the inside door again, and people were very different. They were respectful, and nobody tried to jump the queue or defy anyone. I didn't hear any swearing or aggressive behaviour either, which was not the case in NY (as I would know, having been targetted myself )

[sariflor]

Agree with Mana that the physical layout of NY was never going to work, but here is what I wrote in the NYC thread about that :

 

 

Quote:

 

Originally Posted by Christine

I think the need for the queue organization depends on the venue. It wasn't needed at the Kool Haus for instance. But Jack had warned me about Le Poisson Rouge's policy of leading people into the bar area before the gig where the queue order became entirely useless so we knew that the numbering system would be critical.

 

Much thanks to Standard Toaster who worked tirelessly with the security to get them to assist and for Holly and Lucy who laid the groundwork the night before by developing a rapport with the staff at the venue.

 

I am SO glad that security abided the numbering as we went through the doors as I was worried the MFCers behind me were going to get shafted as the chancers surrounding us were trying to squeeze their way in on the pretext of having nowhere else to go. From all accounts they were allowed in in the proper order and I saw all the queuers had great spots at the front.

 

 

 

It's a mix of both, I find. Of course in cases like LPR, where they put the first 150 people into the tiny bar, it will always be a problem, but in other places where people are expected to form a 'regular' queue (like the venue in Berlin for example), it also boils down to the type of people who turn up.

 

Berlin was horrendous. Once they started moving things at the door, people who had arrived around 5 or 6 pm decided to stand there blocking everything, and were refusing to move when asked to.

It was similar to the situation at the bar in NY, with tons of people piled up, and with many bluntly saying that they were refusing to move and that was that.

If security (and John) hadn't been in it with us, and had kept shouting that they would check the names and the numbers, it would have been terrible. These people were physically pushing in, and not going anywhere.

 

So yes, certain venues will be a problem from the word go, just based on layout and procedures, but others will be variable depending on the type of people who are there.

 

In Milan we had a similar setup to NY in a way, in the sense that we all entered the foyer and then had to queue for the inside door again, and people were very different. They were respectful, and nobody tried to jump the queue or defy anyone. I didn't hear any swearing or aggressive behaviour either, which was not the case in NY (as I would know, having been targetted myself )

 

I need to point out, for those who weren't there, that there was enough space in Berlin to queue in an orderly way.

It was not like in NYC, where we had a lack of physical space inside. In Berlin there was space, but it was just the type of crowd that came, they were rowdy and would not budge.

We had to physically push past them when security called our numbers out in order to get in!

Melody was an absolute star in telling them in no uncertain terms what was expected when they started 'not understanding' English.

I just think that it's all gotten so out of hand, with Mika fans being so mad when it comes to all this queueing/pushing business, that these GA venues are just not worth it.

Things work out a LOT better for everyone IMO when there is assigned seating. This of course doesn't mean that anyone needs to sit per se, just that they know where their spot is, and don't need to act like savages to get it.

[sariflor]

Clearly, I'm the only one who has an interest in this topic

[robertina]

Clearly, I'm the only one who has an interest in this topic

no you are not!

but i've been talking about it ad nauseam...and now i like to read others' pov!

 

and sara, re. milan

i CHOSE that row, i wanted to seat there, away from the screaming teens and perfectly central!

it was all decided in advance......

Edited June 25, 2009 by robertina

[Droopsy]

Well I have just one experience to share about this tour (Brussels). I think we were very lucky with that system. We got numbers, but even better, sercurity agreed to let us in in small groups. I really loved that and it seems to me like something that would be really appreciated in bigger venues as well. This prevents people from running like mad etc. I don't know if this is something all venues would agree with though. But the number system is a good one

 

The only concern I have with that one: People can show up super early, and then just leave for the whole day because their spot is reserved. That just doesn't seem right to me compared to people that arrived later, but spent the entire day there, queuing. Surely I don't know if people would do that but you never know. The positive aspect is that you can leave the queue for a while (toilet e.g.) without someone taking your spot.

[robertina]

we made that clear in milan....no going away for the day long!

we agreed in having lunch wherever we liked, but be back in sensible time.

we were lucky cause we could go to the theatre toilets, so not much wandering about.

[sariflor]

no you are not!

but i've been talking about it at nauseam...and now i like to read others' pov!

 

and sara, re. milan

i CHOSE that row, i wanted to seat there, away from the screaming teens and perfectly central!

it was all decided in advance......

 

 

Ah, ok then, that makes me feel a lot better about it.

Re leaving for the day: Droopsy, I think that we all agree with that. It's ok to go for 'breaks' but not to spend most of the time away from the queue. I guess that this is something to be checked onsite, and to be clarified and dealt with if and when it happens

[Lucy]

I think the number system is the best thing ever!!!!

everything worked ok to a point. because once you go inside the venue like the show in NYC, people were trying to cut the line but Andrew made sure the numbers were respected.

[Droopsy]

we made that clear in milan....no going away for the day long!

we agreed in having lunch wherever we liked, but be back in sensible time.

we were lucky cause we could go to the theatre toilets, so not much wandering about.

 

 

Re leaving for the day: Droopsy, I think that we all agree with that. It's ok to go for 'breaks' but not to spend most of the time away from the queue. I guess that this is something to be checked onsite, and to be clarified and dealt with if and when it happens

 

Okay good! I don't think mfc'ers would do that... They'd never hear the end of it But 'regular' people/fans... I don't know... but then again.. They normally wouldn't know about that system either. It's good to see we've got some assertive members here who dare to speak up irl as well

 

Oh and another thing about the numbers of course: the numbers should be correct. Meaning the list is really in the order of how people show up, and not by 'favorising' (don't even know if that's a word ) some people and giving them a smaller number allthough they arrived later.

[RAK1]

Clearly, I'm the only one who has an interest in this topic

 

No, I'm with you 110%

 

I remember at Brixton in 2008 on the last night the number system was working great up to doors opening, but unlike in the recent situations, security didn't care, as they just looked on it as our queueing system for before the gig, going in was open season, especially as they had the stupid system of ladies in one door guys in the other!

Another thing is with the queueing system is, when people get there number can they not go off for the day sightseeing, while everyone else stays put!

Okay we have to have food breaks and toilet breaks, that's a given, but if the rest of us can stay around the venue for the day, so can they!

Again at Brixton, people turned up early, went off all day and came back at 6 to get their place. Now to people who came after and and stayed all day, this looks like they are taking the mickey!

Also when Aurelien was getting people in order before doors opened, some gaps were evident because someone went back to the hotel to get their passport for ID! Surely that should have been a priority BEFORE they got there!

Sorry to rant, I just hope that next time around the queueing goes as smoothly as it did at the GA shows this time.

[LeiRe]

Milan was perfect Again, congrats to organizers!

 

In Brussels some people who had arrived later that morning managed to enter first, but they were only three or four people, not too bad.

 

I think the system works in most cases

[sienna]

One thing is clear and that is that we have to have the venue people, guards etc. aware of the number system, it's impossible to get it to work without their assistance!

 

John did a great job in Berlin:wub2: when he told the guards about it, without him and the guard’s persistent work it would have been chaos!

[Kata]

I'm totally gonna get an inflateable sofa for the next queue and a really long piece of paper so we can write one of those stories where each makes one line

 

I really wish we could stop all this millitary style planning and just enjoy the day am I really the only one who does this because I like the company? Do you guys seriously all take time off and fly around the world only to hang out in front of Mika? Where's the "MFC family" spirit these days?

[Ruth]

I agree with lots that's been said here.

I loved Amsterdam because we didn't have to queue, but honestly Mika gigs are not suitable for seated venues.

 

And apart from golden cage spaces, standing venues are always going to be general admission. Which always will mean that those who can queue all day get priority over people who arrive later. But there really isn't any way around that.

 

So if it is to be first come first served, the issues you've discussed will all come into play - numbering, staying in the queue except for comfort breaks -(although I had an hour out from Brixton because I had to drop my bag and change) but most of all communication between John, the venue staff and MFCers. It does help when there are people who take on the authority as Aurelien did in Brixton and Andrew and Robertina did in NYC and Milan - and others?

 

Failing that how about a guest list made from those who RSVP to each gig???? Not with the same privilages as the friends and family of the performers, but a way to be in first and at the front......

 

(I know this raises the thorny problem of fans who aren't MFCers and should they be less well treated, but I'm only tossing it in as an idea....)

[Ruth]

 

I really wish we could stop all this millitary style planning and just enjoy the day am I really the only one who does this because I like the company? Do you guys seriously all take time off and fly around the world only to hang out in front of Mika? Where's the "MFC family" spirit these days?

 

 

Kata, Kata, Kata...

 

We can enjoy the MFC family a whole lot more when the problems of the queue are ironed out

[Niki27]

Milan was perfect Again, congrats to organizers!

 

In Brussels some people who had arrived later that morning managed to enter first, but they were only three or four people, not too bad.

 

I think the system works in most cases

 

We all got in according to our numbers, I don't see how people who had arrived late could get in before the rest...

[sariflor]

I'm totally gonna get an inflateable sofa for the next queue and a really long piece of paper so we can write one of those stories where each makes one line

 

I really wish we could stop all this millitary style planning and just enjoy the day am I really the only one who does this because I like the company? Do you guys seriously all take time off and fly around the world only to hang out in front of Mika? Where's the "MFC family" spirit these days?

 

No, of course it's not all about the spot, and spending time with the rest of people is one of the best things, and the reason why we do it.

I wouldn't go around the world like that 'just' to see a gig in a normal way. I thought that we all knew and realised that we do this because we have a fantastic community and connections with eachother, and we like to spend time together.

But that doesn't negate the practical and real side of it as well. Everyone (or most who queue) wants that 'golden' spot where they are at the front, and can see every little detail and expression on Mika's face, and Mika can see them and communicate.

That is the reality of it. The only way around that, is to have a system by which to allocate those 'precious' spots fairly to whoever deserves them more, and the fairest way seems to be by order of arrival, hence why it needs to be sorted out properly.

[Christine]

I really wish we could stop all this millitary style planning and just enjoy the day am I really the only one who does this because I like the company? Do you guys seriously all take time off and fly around the world only to hang out in front of Mika? Where's the "MFC family" spirit these days?

 

We had a really good day of queuing, but I would have been really annoyed if the chancers I'd never seen before in my life and were standing two feet from the doors just as they were about to open had gotten in ahead of people who'd been there for 12 hours.

[Emerald]

I think that the number system is a very good idea.... Well in fact, it's the only system I've experienced, but still, I was very comfortable, cause I didn't worry about leaving my *place* (I didn't really have a place mwa ha ha) or anything...But yeah, there is the risk that people get a number and then go shopping for the rest of the day, which is, imo, not really fair...

But I think there is no perfect system anyway... So I'd say we keep this one

[Kata]

No, of course it's not all about the spot, and spending time with the rest of people is one of the best things, and the reason why we do it.

I wouldn't go around the world like that 'just' to see a gig in a normal way. I thought that we all knew and realised that we do this because we have a fantastic community and connections with eachother, and we like to spend time together.

But that doesn't negate the practical and real side of it as well. Everyone (or most who queue) wants that 'golden' spot where they are at the front, and can see every little detail and expression on Mika's face, and Mika can see them and communicate.

That is the reality of it. The only way around that, is to have a system by which to allocate those 'precious' spots fairly to whoever deserves them more, and the fairest way seems to be by order of arrival, hence why it needs to be sorted out properly.

 

Well good luck with sorting it out then Hope you won't mind me camping nearby without a number though, then the people who don't need to look directly at Mika's crotch to have a decent view can join me for a game of travel stratego, might be able to find someone else who also sucks at it with all the clever ones stuck at the front

[ncsuemme]

ok, so i was both impressed and a bit disappointed with the number system in nyc.

 

when i got there, around 6:30, i was number 72 in line. since i was there early-ish, i was noticed, etc. but as it got closer to 7:30, 8. 8:30, people were walking up at getting "in line" (I was RIGHT at the break for the CVS doors). they didn't realize that a number was needed.

 

THEN, when the LPR guy (in the white shirt) was going through checking tickets, he had no idea what the number was about, thus NOT stressing the importance of the number to those that didn't have one.

 

when i went into the bar area, the group I ended up with just grabbed seats on the benches, and made bathroom breaks. we then realized, about 30 minutes into waiting, "Oh, is that the LINE?" and got up and got "into" the line.

 

the music playing plus everyone talking, etc, etc, etc made hearing what was going on impossible. they really needed one of the loud guards to announce something to the degree of "There's a number system. If you didn't get a number, you arrived too late. Please shut up and let us get those with numbers in the door (meaning make some room) and you'll be able to get in directly after that." i luckily heard him calling out "number 70?" and my friends and i pushed through the crowd.

 

by ALL means, i greatly, greatly appreciate the number system. i loved having a 'spot' in line, and knowing that i could get food, drinks, ice cream , whatever. but i definitely think LPR could have done a better job. it felt like a bit of a cluster****, to be honest. but seriously, MFC, y'all rock. if i had known there was going to be a number system, i might have tried to take an early day at work.

Edited June 25, 2009 by ncsuemme
'spot' in line

[Moonlightchild]

Well I have just one experience to share about this tour (Brussels). I think we were very lucky with that system. We got numbers, but even better, sercurity agreed to let us in in small groups. I really loved that and it seems to me like something that would be really appreciated in bigger venues as well. This prevents people from running like mad etc. I don't know if this is something all venues would agree with though. But the number system is a good one

 

The only concern I have with that one: People can show up super early, and then just leave for the whole day because their spot is reserved. That just doesn't seem right to me compared to people that arrived later, but spent the entire day there, queuing. Surely I don't know if people would do that but you never know. The positive aspect is that you can leave the queue for a while (toilet e.g.) without someone taking your spot.

Wow,this is easy,I wanted to say i was in Brussels and blah,blah,blah but i don't need to because everything you just said,is what I wanted to say.

In other words; I agree with Droopsy:thumb_yello:

[RAK1]

No, of course it's not all about the spot, and spending time with the rest of people is one of the best things, and the reason why we do it.

I wouldn't go around the world like that 'just' to see a gig in a normal way. I thought that we all knew and realised that we do this because we have a fantastic community and connections with eachother, and we like to spend time together.

But that doesn't negate the practical and real side of it as well. Everyone (or most who queue) wants that 'golden' spot where they are at the front, and can see every little detail and expression on Mika's face, and Mika can see them and communicate.

That is the reality of it. The only way around that, is to have a system by which to allocate those 'precious' spots fairly to whoever deserves them more, and the fairest way seems to be by order of arrival, hence why it needs to be sorted out properly.

 

 

Well I don't know about anyone else, but the reason I try for a front row spot is because I'm short, and anything further back would be pretty useless for me to see anything. In a perfect world we wouldn't need to start queueing at ridiculously stupid times, and we could spend the early part of the day chilling and hanging out, just like we did for Sadlers Wells. Or if working, coming straight from work and still get a good spot, if the queueing started abou 4/5pm.

I still can't get my head round why the need to queue from 7am (or in some cases the night before!). As far as I've seen, it's just us that does this. Maybe the odd non MFCer comes along at 1/2pm, but it seems primarily to be us that does this.

If we set ground rules for everyone not to get there before 1pm, if this is SO crucial to people to queue early. Then maybe those that work could take half days, instead of whole days off (if the gig is where you live in, or near), and those that travel there could have some chill out time in the morning, hanging out with other MFCers, before heading to the gig, without feeling rushed.