General Q-ing discussion - please play nice everyone!

[Edoclaire]

Sorry, I do like the idea of finding a solution for the Q-ing system, but I disagree with the paying system.

I explain : one of the great thing I love in Mika is that the tickets for gigs are not that expensive and apart from some exceptions (like in festivals), everyone pays the same price and as the opportunity to stand in the same area.

After, each one has the opportunity not thanks to his/er money but his/er time to "obtain" the best places.

To be honest, this paying system seems pretty easy : I would pay to be a member of the queue if I could arrive around 5-6 PM and still be able to enter before people but it doesn't seem ok. It would make people have a pretty bad opinion on Mika's fans and we don't want that, don't we ?

 

But what I say is easy, I don't have a solution to make us become more reasonable about when to start the list. I'd love if the queue would only start at the beginning of the afternoon for big/important gigs and around 4 pm for the others gigs in the Tour.

 

Maybe a list could be designed with those who respond yes on the specific thread and be check the day of the gig as : you have to be on the list and to arrive before... let's say for example 4 PM ... to have your number. So the firsts who arrived would have number 1 and the last number 100 (if he/she 's there before the agreed time). So people can arrive the day before if they like to get the number one and wait for loooooonnnng hours while the more reasonable persons who just want to be in the first 100th would wait 2 or 3 hours.

i don't know if I explained clearly but that's an idea...

[ilseh1983]

i think what Christine says is true, i mean, i haven't q'd much yet, but most were mfc'ers when i q-d

and it can't be that hard to get along with other Mika fans that aren't mfc'ers right? if there's a queue and they join, the one holding the list can just explain how it goes, no?

 

i don't think we should start competing against each other either,

most people who come to see a gig, don't even come that early, so i don't even understand why q-ing starts so early

 

 

once again, hope i explained myself right, there's other things i could say, but my english just isn't good enough yet to express everything correctly

[silver]

I think the only solution is to get Mika to play venues with very wide stages so that everyone gets to be in the front row.

[basicamenteyo]

I think that the amount should be resoneable, not too high to become exclusive, but not so low either...I think something like 80-100€ that you spend ONLY if you go to gigs and there's a reason to pay that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

they'll have a normal Q like when you arrive early and you queue qith all other fans. To pay a subscription is only a PLUS, not a thing to do...so...if you want to pay you do it....otherwise you can do the Q without problems.

 

you said 80-100€????

 

 

 

is he going to take me out for dinner and hotel after that?? Cause if not, no way I´m paying that amount!!!

 

I think the only solution is to get Mika to play venues with very wide stages so that everyone gets to be in the front row.

 

 

wise ass

[Christine]

Maybe a list could be designed with those who respond yes on the specific thread and be check the day of the gig as : you have to be on the list and to arrive before... let's say for example 4 PM ... to have your number. So the firsts who arrived would have number 1 and the last number 100 (if he/she 's there before the agreed time). So people can arrive the day before if they like to get the number one and wait for loooooonnnng hours while the more reasonable persons who just want to be in the first 100th would wait 2 or 3 hours.

i don't know if I explained clearly but that's an idea...

 

This is really the system that is already in place. Everyone knows they will be #100 if they don't show up until 4 pm so they get there earlier. There were more than 100 people at Compiègne so you had to show up even earlier if you wanted to be in the top 100.

 

Unless you want to ballot for places I don't think there is any external system you can enforce to fix this problem. Everyone has to decide, as an individual, what they are prepared to do and not do in order to get to the front and stick to it. If you don't think that queuing at 2 am is worth it then don't queue up at 2 am. It's simple. I think there are enough rational and/or older Mika fans in the hardcore group that are not willing to queue this early that it could never turn into a Tokio Hotel situation.

 

If in fact there are enough people that are so motivated to get to Mika they are willing to do things that I'm not, well I guess they deserve to be in the front row then This is down to individual choice and you can't look to other people or a system to make that choice for you. You can't blame promoters or other fans for queuing too early. You need to do what's right for you.

[Mary]

I think we can agree there is little point in having a numbers system at a festival - there is too much out of our control.

 

It's not just the fact that it gets out of control, it just doesn't make sense.

 

In a festival you have many artists playing, and Mika fortunately is usually a headliner, and that means he's one of the last ones playing. Why on earth should MFC start a list or whatever, to get front row? Imagine Mika gets to play in a festival with Justin Bieber or Tokio Hotel, and we'd come up with the numbers thing. We'd start World War III, no?

 

In Mika's gigs, yes, MFC being the official fan club should have a way of getting a good place, with Team Mika's help (and without disrespecting other people that may queue at the same time) but in festivals, I don't think it makes sense.

 

Just my two cents...

[Mary]

 

It is not normal to queue up early to see most artists, especially considering the lack of huge popularity Mika has in countries outside of France. He is not Lady Gaga for example. He doesn't have that many hardcore fans in the world. We are all competing with each other. If you make an MFC-only queue there will still be 100 people in it by 7 am if you don't resolve the underlying issue here of MFCers losing all common sense and respect for others in order to get to Mika.

 

Amen to that!

 

I think the only solution is to get Mika to play venues with very wide stages so that everyone gets to be in the front row.

 

And with the stage in the middle, so that the front row is even bigger!

[mellody]

i think this discussion only really makes sense, if the admins of other country forums are involved too - especially thinking of france here. it indeed is the fanclub members who are responsible for the early queuing problem - but not only mfc, but also the local forums. the locals who aren't on any forums hardly ever queue that early - though of course it can happen (like for example in helsinki). anyway, i think that most of the french fans who were queuing early are on the french forum?

 

in any case, i knew what happened in paris last year, on the 2nd day they already closed the list at 7am because there were so many there already - so i expected something similar in compiegne and wasn't surprised that people started queuing the night before, because they couldn't afford a hotel and there wouldn't have been any trains from paris to compiegne before 9am (from what i've been told). and it's also clear to me that if there are 60, 70 or even more yes-RSVPs on mfc, this'll mean people will start queuing early - so if it's important to me to get to front row centre (which isn't always the case, but sometimes i'd love to have this perfect spot ), i'll have to be there earlier than most of the others. in fact i love queuing together with my friends, but it'd be enough for me if it started around noon, or even later if the weather is bad, and not at times when i usually sleep.

 

about the queuing at festivals, i agree to what has been said here. i was very surprised to find a numbered queue in liege, and even more surprised that they persuaded the security guards to let in the numbered people first, and even check the order of the numbers. the security guard himself told us to get in line, in the number order, and didn't want to hear about our arguments that it might be unfair towards all the others. some ozark henry fans complained and got in together with us, but the rest of the ca. 50-100 unnumbered people who were already queuing when the doors opened only got in after us, although some of then definitely arrived before some others in the numbered queue! besides, i think the list keepers didn't even tell people who arrived about the numbers system, you had to go to them to get a number. or maybe they did and i just didn't notice.

 

also agree that there have to be consequences if someone leaves the queue for a long time, to go back to sleep or something like that. there can be exceptions for example in amsterdam there were a few cases (leator+sasje, whose car had been vandalized and they had to go to the police, and statue had to do something important too, i just don't remember what it was now), but going back to sleep or relaxing on the beach definitely isn't such an exception! the problem with this is, that it's usually up to the list keepers how strict they handle this... and it's a lot of work to check every hour or so who is still there and who isn't, and who has been away for how long etc. - and if you don't do it in an organized way, it can still be random who gets taken off the list and who not. as long as anyone who wants to (if they're there early enough) can start and keep the list, it's never sure that each of those list keepers really is a responsible person.

 

have some more to say on this topic, but gotta leave now, and guess that's enough for one post (although i don't really have any solutions so far... :rolls_eyes:)

[Mary]

i think this discussion only really makes sense, if the admins of other country forums are involved too - especially thinking of france here. it indeed is the fanclub members who are responsible for the early queuing problem - but not only mfc, but also the local forums. the locals who aren't on any forums hardly ever queue that early - though of course it can happen (like for example in helsinki). anyway, i think that most of the french fans who were queuing early are on the french forum?

 

 

 

The problem is also the rivalry between french forums. Forum 1 wants to get there before forum 2, and those want to slap people from forum 1, who want to kick forum 2 in the teeth...and so on!

 

But yes, I agree this should be discussed with every forum admins. (as for me, I can assure you that "my" forum (Mikalandia - Portuguese FC) has never been responsible for queuing too early, and we are happy to help solving any possible issue, especially of course, in the Portugal gigs! )

[Sarina]

A few issues with this proposal...

 

We started asking Team Mika to form a proper fan club as far back as 2008. As you can see it still hasn't happened. In my personal opinion (this is not word from TM, it's just what I think), Mika likes to do things on a whim. While John has been extremely helpful in getting the queues respected by the venues, a paid fan club is going to mean too many commitments on the part of TM and Mika to do other things like formal M&Gs when perhaps he prefers to do special things for fans when he is moved to do so and not for money (or any other reason really).

 

Secondly I think the idea that MFCers have to queue at 2 am (or any time before the afternoon) to compete with non-MFCers is unfounded paranoia. I have never been to a gig where there have been more than a couple of people near the top of the list that are not MFCers or so closely connected to MFC (like the other tightly knit French communities of MWS and MF) that they must be considered MFCers in these circumstances and would surely join a paying fan club if given the opportunity.

 

It is not normal to queue up early to see most artists, especially considering the lack of huge popularity Mika has in countries outside of France. He is not Lady Gaga for example. He doesn't have that many hardcore fans in the world. We are all competing with each other. If you make an MFC-only queue there will still be 100 people in it by 7 am if you don't resolve the underlying issue here of MFCers losing all common sense and respect for others in order to get to Mika.

 

Just to be clear, I said the priviledge would be only the queue because I won't force Mika ever to do M&Gs on command or something like that...I would never ask for it. The Q is just a thing that is not releated to Mika himself ot his relationship with fans...but is something releated with organization..that's all.

Second point: you're right when you say that probably the same people would Q early even with a MFC-only queue but the fact that the Q would be made by MFC-fans who paid a subscription would reduce the number or people. So, for example, if I'm scared to have a high number if I Q now, I won't be scared anymore if I know that on the list there would be 70-100 fans only because I know that I'll have a good spot anyway AND I'll be with people who I can trust enough. And example: if you're in the middle of the crowd and you don't know who is near you, is possible (and it happened) that people push SO much to try to reach the 1st row and you get squeezed...if I have Rose or Saskia or Nina or anyone I know from MFC I don't fear that because I know them and I know how they usually behave. A MFC-Q only would also mean a safer situation at gigs.

 

 

 

Sorry, I do like the idea of finding a solution for the Q-ing system, but I disagree with the paying system.

I explain : one of the great thing I love in Mika is that the tickets for gigs are not that expensive and apart from some exceptions (like in festivals), everyone pays the same price and as the opportunity to stand in the same area.

After, each one has the opportunity not thanks to his/er money but his/er time to "obtain" the best places.

To be honest, this paying system seems pretty easy : I would pay to be a member of the queue if I could arrive around 5-6 PM and still be able to enter before people but it doesn't seem ok. It would make people have a pretty bad opinion on Mika's fans and we don't want that, don't we ?

 

But what I say is easy, I don't have a solution to make us become more reasonable about when to start the list. I'd love if the queue would only start at the beginning of the afternoon for big/important gigs and around 4 pm for the others gigs in the Tour.

 

Maybe a list could be designed with those who respond yes on the specific thread and be check the day of the gig as : you have to be on the list and to arrive before... let's say for example 4 PM ... to have your number. So the firsts who arrived would have number 1 and the last number 100 (if he/she 's there before the agreed time). So people can arrive the day before if they like to get the number one and wait for loooooonnnng hours while the more reasonable persons who just want to be in the first 100th would wait 2 or 3 hours.

i don't know if I explained clearly but that's an idea...

 

Well, I think prices are increasing now...cause Mika is more famous than before and it's a normal thing expecially if you travel with a lot of scenography like he did before.

About the "bad opinion of Mika fans" they already have it....I'm sorry but it's true...eveytime there are people complaining about number system and about why people have numbers and things like that...with a subscription and payment no one could complain because we justify the fact we enter before the others....now we don't have an official reason to do that...we could only say "the management likes it" but maybe we need something more to make people understand and respect the Q (in Compiègne, for example, people without numbers tried *and successed* to bed with people who got numbers and they entered before us).

 

 

i think what Christine says is true, i mean, i haven't q'd much yet, but most were mfc'ers when i q-d

and it can't be that hard to get along with other Mika fans that aren't mfc'ers right? if there's a queue and they join, the one holding the list can just explain how it goes, no?

 

i don't think we should start competing against each other either,

most people who come to see a gig, don't even come that early, so i don't even understand why q-ing starts so early

 

 

once again, hope i explained myself right, there's other things i could say, but my english just isn't good enough yet to express everything correctly

 

well...no...it's not absolutely that simple: you explain = people understand...people don't understand the number system and they complain in any case because they see conspiracy in it or they're just scared. In Nice for example John said, in the first place, that only MFC members could join the list (there were problems with the Universal guy that time) and we had to fix things up to let the other non-MFC people join the queue, it was REALLY hard, we did it but...non-MFC fans kept to complain all the time even if they got the chance to enter before the other with us...so...no..it's not simple at all

 

you said 80-100€????

is he going to take me out for dinner and hotel after that?? Cause if not, no way I´m paying that amount!!!

 

lol...that's was only a number

And, considering Take That ask 400 euros..is not too much IMO

 

I think the only solution is to get Mika to play venues with very wide stages so that everyone gets to be in the front row.

 

yay!!

[Droopsy]

I always was so against having to pay for privileges or to be member of some kind of special fanclub etc. But the way things are going now I'd be more than happy to pay for it. Don't think it's realistic (yet) though.

[Mary]

I always was so against having to pay for privileges or to be member of some kind of special fanclub etc. But the way things are going now I'd be more than happy to pay for it. Don't think it's realistic (yet) though.

 

I wouldn't be happy to pay to be a member of the MFC, to be honest.

 

But if we're talking about the queue things, it could be easier. We could have a way to buy tickets via MFC, paying an extra fee, and those "special" tickets would give acess to be on the numbered list. something like that. And the person responsible for the list (for example a country rep or someone else, previously decided) would set a time to start the list. People would get there, and queue in order of arrival, and then they'd get a number.

 

Have no idea if this would work, tho... Just an idea...

[Sarina]

I always was so against having to pay for privileges or to be member of some kind of special fanclub etc. But the way things are going now I'd be more than happy to pay for it. Don't think it's realistic (yet) though.

 

Yes, usually I don't like to pay either, but things are changing here and we must face it. And, as you also say, if things are going like that (and like Compiègne)..I'll pray to pay and have a better situation

[Sabine64]

Is the paying part that makes the different. Not everyone here go to gigs and so not everyone cares about Q so there are a lot of people subscribed to MFC but I think that only a part of them would actually pay to have a MFC only queue system. And...that's the idea...and here it comes the priviledge

 

And about the amount...I don't think it can be SO high...it depends on what you get....and we would only get the queue.

 

I don´t like the idea of paying for that, sorry. But this would be a reason why I never would join the Josh Groban fanclub where you can buy different treatments .

 

I think the only solution would be to write down a few rules for queueing and look that all people know them.

First rule " not to be away from queue longer than maximal 1 hour or your name will be deleted "

 

Maybe it would be helpful if we can discuss here before a gig who will make the list and with a posted pic we know exactly where we have to go to sign up. So not everyone ould start a list whenever they want.

 

 

Compiegne wasn´t the only gig where the queue started that early. I remember that some US fans started the queue at 2.00 am too. At my first gig at Westerpark some girls slept there even it was pouring with rain the whole night. Last year in Amsterdam a couple slept at the venue ( O.K., their car was broken in and they could move ). And I think in Helsinki some fans also started the evening before the gig.

But in Compiegne it was more worse because so many people took numbers and dissapeared then.

[Sarina]

I wouldn't be happy to pay to be a member of the MFC, to be honest.

 

But if we're talking about the queue things, it could be easier. We could have a way to buy tickets via MFC, paying an extra fee, and those "special" tickets would give acess to be on the numbered list. something like that. And the person responsible for the list (for example a country rep or someone else, previously decided) would set a time to start the list. People would get there, and queue in order of arrival, and then they'd get a number.

 

Have no idea if this would work, tho... Just an idea...

 

In fact you won't be forced to pay to be a part of MFC...but you could decide to pay to have a special MFC-Q at gigs.

[Mary]

In fact you won't be forced to pay to be a part of MFC...but you could decide to pay to have a special MFC-Q at gigs.

 

It would depend on the system used. It would have to be charged according to the number if gigs you go to, otherwise we'd have people paying for one queue the same amount others pay for 30.

[Sarina]

I don´t like the idea of paying for that, sorry. But this would be a reason why I never would join the Josh Groban fanclub where you can buy different treatments .

 

I think the only solution would be to write down a few rules for queueing and look that all people know them.

First rule " not to be away from queue longer than maximal 1 hour or your name will be deleted "

 

Maybe it would be helpful if we can discuss here before a gig who will make the list and with a posted pic we know exactly where we have to go to sign up. So not everyone ould start a list whenever they want.

 

 

Compiegne wasn´t the only gig where the queue started that early. I remember that some US fans started the queue at 2.00 am too. At my first gig at Westerpark some girls slept there even it was pouring with rain the whole night. Last year in Amsterdam a couple slept at the venue ( O.K., their car was broken in and they could move ). And I think in Helsinki some fans also started the evening before the gig.

But in Compiegne it was more worse because so many people took numbers and dissapeared then.

 

Write down some rules won't save the situation, IMO. And why? Because people don't respect them...because when you let everyone Q you don't know them and you can't check if they're Q or not. If we are ONLY from MFC we know each other, the situation is easier.

And, about discuss it here...won't solve the situation either because not everyone who Q is from MFC and not everyone read threads here before gigs.

This is why the situation is complicated.

 

Compiègne was worse, I agree with you, but if you ever coordinate a Q you know that people complain anyway...you have to follow them, check them, stand over while they're enter, check their numbers together with the security, explain all the rules, check if they're respect them...

[Sarina]

It would depend on the system used. It would have to be charged according to the number if gigs you go to, otherwise we'd have people paying for one queue the same amount others pay for 30.

 

Well, I don't se any difference in that...if I pay once I can do all the gigs I want (1 or 1000) and if I don't pay I still make them without the MFC-Q.

The payment couldn't be releated on how many gigs you do...otherwise would be TOO expensive and not fair IMO. It's just an amount to pay once and it gives the priviledge to queue with MFC. I don't care if the person near me paid the same amount and he/she made 300 Q or 1 like me...we have the same rights there. Hope I explained myself.

[camille*]

I tend to agree with Edoclaire who talked about the list of MFCers who RSVPed in the gig thread (here on MFC, or other lists for MF and MWS).. Like, if you RSVPed on a forum and you show up before such hour, you are on the list.. I haven't thought much about it sorry, but it just reminded me that when I went to my first gig in 2010 I thought the system was like this. But at the same time it's true that you can be a fan without being on a forum. Phew..

[Mary]

I tend to agree with Edoclaire who talked about the list of MFCers who RSVPed in the gig thread (here on MFC, or other lists for MF and MWS).. Like, if you RSVPed on a forum and you show up before such hour, you are on the list.. I haven't thought much about it sorry, but it just reminded me that when I went to my first gig in 2010 I thought the system was like this. But at the same time it's true that you can be a fan without being on a forum. Phew..

 

If the numbers list is an MFC thing, it should only be the MFC RSVP list, not others.

 

Especially because some forum members don't get along with other forums'. It would be a battle camp!

[Mary]

Well, I don't se any difference in that...if I pay once I can do all the gigs I want (1 or 1000) and if I don't pay I still make them without the MFC-Q.

The payment couldn't be releated on how many gigs you do...otherwise would be TOO expensive and not fair IMO. It's just an amount to pay once and it gives the priviledge to queue with MFC. I don't care if the person near me paid the same amount and he/she made 300 Q or 1 like me...we have the same rights there. Hope I explained myself.

 

Not fair?

 

So, it would be fair to pay (for example) 20 euros - which is almost the same as a concert ticket in some places - to queue at one gig, while others would pay the same to have privileges at 20 gigs? Doesn't seem too fair either, sorry.

[camille*]

If the numbers list is an MFC thing, it should only be the MFC RSVP list, not others.

 

Especially because some forum members don't get along with other forums'. It would be a battle camp!

 

Oh you know I'm French but I have no idea what happens with the other forums..! I only learnt this in Compiègne For me MFC is THE one

[Sarina]

Not fair?

 

So, it would be fair to pay (for example) 20 euros - which is almost the same as a concert ticket in some places - to queue at one gig, while others would pay the same to have privileges at 20 gigs? Doesn't seem too fair either, sorry.

 

It's not a fee to pay to queue one time....it's a fee to pay to be a member of MFC and to access at MFC-Q all the time. Instead if you have to set a fee for one Q only, like you said, the fee should be low for sure and it becomes more expensive if you do more than one gig but in this situation the lower queue fee would allow everyone to pay for example 20 euros for one gig instead of having a standard higher rate that not everyone is agree to pay. Plus it would become harder to manage. One fee only would be easier.

[Etoile2roses]

- times when to start the Q and

 

- if we should have a Q at festivals

 

- how can everybody be motivated to stay in the Q and not go back to bed etc.

 

Most of all: How can we get a fair system out of the more and more unsatisfying system we already have?

 

ok so here for me:

 

- times when to start the Q: 3 or 4 pm

 

-if we should have a Q at festivals: no need because normal people arrived around 3 or 4 pm for festivals

 

-how can everybody be motivated to stay in the Q and not go back to bed etc...:

first of all: sleep at home or in a nice hotel,

second: take a good breakfast,

third: enjoy the city you are staying at

fourth: have a good lunch

fifth: go relax to the show...and you arrived around 3 or 4 pm...

 

well I know it does not help but I must admit that all the shows I have seen of differents artists since my early age, it was like that, and I never had any difficulties to have good places front row or second or third row or good sittings places...

[ilseh1983]

ok so here for me:

 

- times when to start the Q: 3 or 4 pm

 

-if we should have a Q at festivals: no need because normal people arrived around 3 or 4 pm for festivals

 

-how can everybody be motivated to stay in the Q and not go back to bed etc...:

first of all: sleep at home or in a nice hotel,

second: take a good breakfast,

third: enjoy the city you are staying at

fourth: go relax to the show...and you arrived around 3 or 4 pm...

 

well I know it does not help but I must admit that all the shows I have seen of differents artists since my early age, it was like that, and I never had any difficulties to have good places front row or second or third row or good sittings places...

 

it would be nice if it did help:teehee:

 

*dreams*