Mary Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 ok so here for me: - times when to start the Q: 3 or 4 pm -if we should have a Q at festivals: no need because normal people arrived around 3 or 4 pm for festivals -how can everybody be motivated to stay in the Q and not go back to bed etc...: first of all: sleep at home or in a nice hotel, second: take a good breakfast, third: enjoy the city you are staying at fourth: have a good lunch fifth: go relax to the show...and you arrived around 3 or 4 pm... well I know it does not help but I must admit that all the shows I have seen of differents artists since my early age, it was like that, and I never had any difficulties to have good places front row or second or third row or good sittings places... I'm with you on all that! (too bad it does not help...lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eloise.shaw Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I'm not sure I'd like to pay for being a member. It depends how much because if it's too much some might not be able to afford it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanou Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I've read this thread carefully from the very beginning and I'd like to add my little comments to the whole discussion, even though I'm not really convinced that this is leading anywhere actually Unless you want to ballot for places I don't think there is any external system you can enforce to fix this problem. Everyone has to decide, as an individual, what they are prepared to do and not do in order to get to the front and stick to it. If you don't think that queuing at 2 am is worth it then don't queue up at 2 am. It's simple. I think there are enough rational and/or older Mika fans in the hardcore group that are not willing to queue this early that it could never turn into a Tokio Hotel situation. Christine, you perfectly resume here what I'am thinking... I do think people are all responsible and clever enough to decide alone on what time they want to start queuing... creating a "MFC only" list would be, according to me of course, absolutely unfair for people who are not member of any fanclub but want to go very early to a gig because they feel like being first row once for a gig of an artist they like. For instance, some of my friends do like Mika very much and came with me at Basel's gig last year. We came early, got all numbers and went at front row all together and had a wonderful time together. What if an "MFC member only" list is created and someone wants to come with friends to a gig then? should we tell our friends to subscribe here before the gig, knowing perfectly they would never post anything on the forum, only to be allowed to spend the gig together? should members from MFC consider coming later and forgetting about front row because their friends are "strangers"? or should we tell our friends that they have to pay their tickets twice the price to get the "opportunity" to spend the gig with us? and what about people having absolutely no idea of this "privileged" list? should we just tell them it's too bad they're not on any forum? I'm afraid that this would provide a very bad reputation to Mika fans and to the man himself. And, honestly, if things turn like that, it would be with good reasons according to me... i think this discussion only really makes sense, if the admins of other country forums are involved too - especially thinking of france here. it indeed is the fanclub members who are responsible for the early queuing problem - but not only mfc, but also the local forums. the locals who aren't on any forums hardly ever queue that early - though of course it can happen (like for example in helsinki). anyway, i think that most of the french fans who were queuing early are on the french forum? If this discussion had a chance to lead somewhere, I agree everyone should speak about that all together. But, even if the admin of every single forum were taking part to the discussion, I still can't see how they are supposed to force people on their own fanclubs not doing what they want... The problem is also the rivalry between french forums. Forum 1 wants to get there before forum 2, and those want to slap people from forum 1, who want to kick forum 2 in the teeth...and so on! Of course some members of the two French fanclubs are still quite hateful towards people not coming form "their" fanclub... But I do think it's not a majority anymore and the admins and mods from both fanclubs lately made wonderful work together to stop this little war and show they can have wonderful results when working together! For instance, when Mika came to the Grévin museum in Paris for the presentation of his wax statue, both forums worked together to find tickets for everyone and it went perfectly well. And generally, both forums now work together, for exemple, to find special things to do all together at gigs, and so on... of course I can't say no little fight will happen again in the future, but the "big war between forum 1 and forum 2" is not a reality anymore according to me Therefore, I don't think you can put the blame on any of them about what happened in Compiègne (or at french gigs in general). The thing is, some Individuals wants to be first, and therefore wants to be at gigs before other individuals in general, but this has nothing to do with a war between fan clubs...or you should include MFC and every other fanclubs too... On a more general note regarding the Q-ing at gigs, I'm not sure either that deciding together, for instance, of a time to come at gig will lead somewhere too... I remember a case at a swiss gig last year, where all people from MFC discussed together on the gigs thread, here on MFC, and decided there would be absolutely no reason to come before noon. This didn't prevent some people, who took part to the discussion, to be there at 10 am, only to be sure they would still be first... the whole point of this, is to show that, always only according to me, even if things are discussed, arranged, organised, etc... before every single gig, nothing would prevent people to do what they want in the end...and, tbh, I wonder if this discussion would have ever happened if people at Compiègne's gig had been allowed to enter first re their number and if doors had been opened only for them first as it was supposed to be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAK1 Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I wouldn't be happy to pay to be a member of the MFC, to be honest. But if we're talking about the queue things, it could be easier. We could have a way to buy tickets via MFC, paying an extra fee, and those "special" tickets would give acess to be on the numbered list. something like that. And the person responsible for the list (for example a country rep or someone else, previously decided) would set a time to start the list. People would get there, and queue in order of arrival, and then they'd get a number. Have no idea if this would work, tho... Just an idea... That's how the Cliff Richard fan club do it. Their members get pre sale tickets with sequencial numbers on, and they queue up accordingly at the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babspanky Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Seated venue with allocated seats. No queueing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etoile2roses Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Just something to say: For instance for Compiègne how many people "outside" of MFC or others forums were there very early ? I think they went there around 1 pm or 2 pm but there were not that much like 20 persons or so... So what is the difference for us to arrive around 1pm I mean what is the risk ? to have maybe 20 persons out of fanclubs before us... 100 persons can be easier in first to third row, without count the people who just want to have good sitting and do not want to be front row... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAK1 Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Write down some rules won't save the situation, IMO. And why? Because people don't respect them...because when you let everyone Q you don't know them and you can't check if they're Q or not. If we are ONLY from MFC we know each other, the situation is easier.And, about discuss it here...won't solve the situation either because not everyone who Q is from MFC and not everyone read threads here before gigs. This is why the situation is complicated. Compiègne was worse, I agree with you, but if you ever coordinate a Q you know that people complain anyway...you have to follow them, check them, stand over while they're enter, check their numbers together with the security, explain all the rules, check if they're respect them... I was suggesting what Sabine mentioned on another thread. If the only list that was valid, was the official list started by a designated person from the RSVP list, and the time was agreed on the thread, in conjunction with the other forums (French, German, Dutch etc), then any other list started by anyone else, would be voided, and stop the ridiculous queuing. If people start realising that getting to the venue at extreme times, is a pointless excerise, then they'll stop doing it, and things will get back on track again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Seated venue with allocated seats. No queueing. We could only wish But Mika seems to prefer standing venues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 On a more general note regarding the Q-ing at gigs, I'm not sure either that deciding together, for instance, of a time to come at gig will lead somewhere too... I remember a case at a swiss gig last year, where all people from MFC discussed together on the gigs thread, here on MFC, and decided there would be absolutely no reason to come before noon. This didn't prevent some people, who took part to the discussion, to be there at 10 am, only to be sure they would still be first... I've seen this happen too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAK1 Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Just something to say: For instance for Compiègne how many people "outside" of MFC or others forums were there ? I think they went there around 1 pm or 2 pm but there were not that much like 20 persons or so... So what is the difference for us to arrive around 1pm I mean what is the risk ? to have maybe 20 persons out of fanclubs before us... 100 persons can be easier in first to third row, without count the people who just want to have good sitting and do not want to be front row... Not over here they don't! I think you'll find the only people who get to venues that early here are fan club members, and if given the choice, you'll find the UK members would much rather start queuing at 3pm at the earliest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I've seen this happen too I didn't (fortunately), but I totally imagine it happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willywonka Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 That's how the Cliff Richard fan club do it. Their members get pre sale tickets with sequencial numbers on, and they queue up accordingly at the show. Is he still alive??? And there's even a fanclub???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Is he still alive??? And there's even a fanclub???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAK1 Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Is he still alive??? And there's even a fanclub???? Funnily enough, yes. And he has a new album out soon. And he has a MASSIVE fan club, makes Mikas' look aenemic:roftl: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etoile2roses Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Not over here they don't!I think you'll find the only people who get to venues that early here are fan club members, and if given the choice, you'll find the UK members would much rather start queuing at 3pm at the earliest. Oh sorry you did not understand... my english is not good to express myself... I was not talking about this... I was talking about the fact that people outside fanclub arrived around 1 or 2 pm for this show... and nothing push people from MFC or others Mika forums to arrived so earlier (2pm for instance for Compiègne) I arrived with a friend of mine around 7.30 am (by the first train from Paris, without knowing that they were already so much people on the list) and we were 100 and 101... around 12 o'clock there were around 150people and we were all from fanclub... the people outside of this fanclub arrive at 1 or 2 pm... do you get it ? So now we arrived so earlier because a lot of people said (even on MFC) that they took a room for the night before the show, so I thought that it was not really to sleep but to start queing since 5 or 6 am knowing that the first train from Paris would arrived around 7.30 am.... Now I regret it... I regret to have follow this crazy movement, and to be honest I really hope that it will have seating place for the next Mika show, because I am a little bit tired with all of this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I've read this thread carefully from the very beginning and I'd like to add my little comments to the whole discussion, even though I'm not really convinced that this is leading anywhere actually Yes you know this whole discussion reminds me of people hoping for a magic bullet to lose weight. There is already a formula that is available to everyone. Restrict calorie intake and exercise. But no one wants to do that. They want the weight to just magically drop off. None of us wants to queue up at 2 am but changing the rules is not going to make all these hardcore Mika fans go away so that you can turn up at 4 pm and be #1. At least not any way that is fair and won't be a bad reflection on Mika and turn the other fans off of even buying tickets to the gig. You could price most people into oblivion in order to reduce the priority queue numbers. Personally I would pay just about anything to be able to turn up late and be ahead of everyone else. For me time is money and I could be earning hundreds of dollars or saving hundreds of dollars on less hotel stays, etc. if I didn't have to waste so much time in a queue. For me it evens out and it's worth it. But I don't know if I really find it ethical to go to TM and ask for this sort of setup so I can stand at the front and younglings and other people who don't have as much money have to stand 100 places back. I've had at least half a dozen younglings as gig companions over the years and would feel forced to pay their way if they couldn't afford it anyway. And if you're one of these people who can't afford it and therefore know that 100 people or more are going to get ahead of you in the queue no matter what you do would you even bother going? Some people may not. Others will turn up only to discover this at the gig and be furious and b*tching to everyone from the other fans to the venue to Team Mika. Is this going to be good for Mika or his fan club? I don't know. That's how the Cliff Richard fan club do it. Their members get pre sale tickets with sequencial numbers on, and they queue up accordingly at the show. That's about the most practical solution I've heard and it's what they do in Japan. But in Japan they do it with the entire venue. I think if it's only for fan club members you're still going to have people turning up at the gig pissed off that 200 people swanned it at 6 pm and got ahead of them when they have been queuing for a couple of hours. It's something to think about but I'm not sure if it's quite the right thing for Mika at this point in his career. I still think the onus should be on fans to just stop acting in such a self-destructive manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willywonka Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Funnily enough, yes.And he has a new album out soon. And he has a MASSIVE fan club, makes Mikas' look aenemic:roftl: Gotta love him! My granny used to love him so i was brought up with his music... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I was suggesting what Sabine mentioned on another thread.If the only list that was valid, was the official list started by a designated person from the RSVP list, and the time was agreed on the thread, in conjunction with the other forums (French, German, Dutch etc), then any other list started by anyone else, would be voided, and stop the ridiculous queuing. If people start realising that getting to the venue at extreme times, is a pointless excerise, then they'll stop doing it, and things will get back on track again. Rose I don't understand this line of thinking. If everyone decides that 10 am is the designated queuing time, for instance, then what are you going to do when it's 10 am and there are 150 people at the venue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etoile2roses Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Rose I don't understand this line of thinking. If everyone decides that 10 am is the designated queuing time, for instance, then what are you going to do when it's 10 am and there are 150 people at the venue? You must run to be first well it can be that... it is what happen when you have few doors opening in the same time before a gig, everyone runs... the best sprinter will be on the top of the list etc... ... it does not help again I know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Statue_of_Liberty Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 I was suggesting what Sabine mentioned on another thread.If the only list that was valid, was the official list started by a designated person from the RSVP list, and the time was agreed on the thread, in conjunction with the other forums (French, German, Dutch etc), then any other list started by anyone else, would be voided, and stop the ridiculous queuing. If people start realising that getting to the venue at extreme times, is a pointless excerise, then they'll stop doing it, and things will get back on track again. I really really like the idea of deciding a specific time in advance that would be the earliest to q, especially including the local fanclub admins in that. The only problem I see - I already told you that thought - is that if we say a specific time, let's say 4pm. Then there are people coming at 2pm and some will come later as well. But I'm sure there are a few that will turn up at 1:57 pm and at the next gig at 1:55 and so on. Well we could make up a rule that says that everyone who is there earlier doesn't get on the list. But there's still a problem: If we all come at 4pm, who is #1 then? About the paying thing I see the same problem as someone earlier already mentioned: the freaks who turn up at silly o'clock are our freaks. We are them, MFC and other fanclubs. No normal-thinking person would come to a gig two hours before the doors are about to open And the majority of us freaks would totally pay that money (if possible) to be on the list and then still come early as there are still as many people. Vicious circle! Edit: another thought that crossed my mind: in order to avoid people going to bed again it would be the easiest way to check the list every full hour or something. Just read our the names and who isn't there isn't there. If there not there a second time around their names will be deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sienna Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Seated venue with allocated seats. No queueing. Yes please! I'm tired of queuing and lose valuable time to enjoy the city I've been travelling to for a lot of money! And it's not enough to have spent the whole day on a boring street, hungry and thirsty and in need of a bathroom break, you still have to run as fast as you can when they finally let you in! I'm also tired of the tension:sneaky2: between people, both with the queuing and the competition to be as close to the stage as possible. But I don't have any brilliant ideas for a solution, I wish I had! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzie Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 With all this queueing discussion we are assuming that there will be someone in Mika’s team (John or anyone replacing him) who will ensure the smooth and fair running of the system. In order not to complicate things, I am assuming that, too, now. Based on my own experience, the biggest problem I we have with queueing is that a, some people come at ridiculous hours just to beat the rest (even if it is agreed no-one arrives early) b., people come at ridiculous hours, start the list and leave it with their friends so that they can have a rest in their hotel room. I think both can be handled relatively easily, although probably it wouldn’t work perfectly or please everyone either, like no system ever does. a., To begin with, I think there should always be a volunteer appointed by MFC moderators who would be in charge of queueing and who would start the list at a reasonable time - meaning 6am in France and 6pm in Vilnius ( ) This would be announced on MFC, so that it comes as no surprise to anyone. Of course one can say that there would already be a queue by the time the rep arrives. However, this person could insist that these people suffering from insomnia (i.e already there) are not immediately signed up until they take a walk and come back – or just simply ignore them. It is just a matter of fans deciding about it. I don’t think it should be an exclusive MFC queue, btw. In my experience, local fans welcome the idea of getting numbers if it is properly explained to them. It reminds me of the situation in Helsinki that someone already mentioned. I was there and we heard news the night before how some fans were already queueing there,. I must say that I was really angry. However, when I saw in the morning that it was only 5-6 teenagers who have never seen Mika and simply did not want to miss their only chance in many years to see him live, I actually found that sweet and totally understood them. Anyway, back to point b, It is easy for the keeper of the list to explain each and everyone that one can only leave the queue for a maximim of one hour and that people on the list would be checked at a certain point of time or more times, unannounced, so if the people are not there when their names are checked, their names will be marked and checked again and if they are not back in 60mins, their name is off the list. This system worked perfectly several times already, so there is no reason to assume it wouldn’t next time. Needless to say we do need someone from Mika’s team to ensure fans in this queue get priority access.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigma Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 That's how the Cliff Richard fan club do it. Their members get pre sale tickets with sequencial numbers on, and they queue up accordingly at the show. And that's nothing new. When I was doing ticket sales 20 years ago we used a similar system: Fanclub pre-sale tickets were a different colour, with sequential numbers on them. There was a separate queue at the gigs for people with those tickets, and that queue was let in first. It was easy to organise and it worked perfectly all over the world. Simple! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarina Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Yes you know this whole discussion reminds me of people hoping for a magic bullet to lose weight. There is already a formula that is available to everyone. Restrict calorie intake and exercise. But no one wants to do that. They want the weight to just magically drop off. None of us wants to queue up at 2 am but changing the rules is not going to make all these hardcore Mika fans go away so that you can turn up at 4 pm and be #1. At least not any way that is fair and won't be a bad reflection on Mika and turn the other fans off of even buying tickets to the gig. You could price most people into oblivion in order to reduce the priority queue numbers. Personally I would pay just about anything to be able to turn up late and be ahead of everyone else. For me time is money and I could be earning hundreds of dollars or saving hundreds of dollars on less hotel stays, etc. if I didn't have to waste so much time in a queue. For me it evens out and it's worth it. But I don't know if I really find it ethical to go to TM and ask for this sort of setup so I can stand at the front and younglings and other people who don't have as much money have to stand 100 places back. I've had at least half a dozen younglings as gig companions over the years and would feel forced to pay their way if they couldn't afford it anyway. And if you're one of these people who can't afford it and therefore know that 100 people or more are going to get ahead of you in the queue no matter what you do would you even bother going? Some people may not. Others will turn up only to discover this at the gig and be furious and b*tching to everyone from the other fans to the venue to Team Mika. Is this going to be good for Mika or his fan club? I don't know. That's about the most practical solution I've heard and it's what they do in Japan. But in Japan they do it with the entire venue. I think if it's only for fan club members you're still going to have people turning up at the gig pissed off that 200 people swanned it at 6 pm and got ahead of them when they have been queuing for a couple of hours. It's something to think about but I'm not sure if it's quite the right thing for Mika at this point in his career. I still think the onus should be on fans to just stop acting in such a self-destructive manner. Yes, you're right on that, seems not fair, but don't forget that John always wanted MFC in the 1st rows...so, technically, there's a reason for that...maybe he wants people who know the right moves to do, people that sing songs with Mika and maybe he likes to see familiar faces at his shows. So, again, we're not doing what he asked us to do... Rose I don't understand this line of thinking. If everyone decides that 10 am is the designated queuing time, for instance, then what are you going to do when it's 10 am and there are 150 people at the venue? Yes, I don't get it too..sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 I still think the onus should be on fans to just stop acting in such a self-destructive manner. Abso-bloody-lutely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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