Out of tune?

[sariflor]

Practice is all well and good, but some people can still drop the ball, and be nervous performing on stage. And occasionally that may manifest itself in the odd bum note here and there. My friend who used to sing opera with an amateur group, who practiced pretty much every day, had the occasional lapse, and was the first to criticise himself for doing it, but it certainly wasn't down to how much practice he'd put in. It was more down to how he was feeling on the night.

We don't know how much practice Mika does before a gig, just because he doesn't broadcast it, doesn't mean to say he isn't practicing in some way shape or form.

 

Rose, I think then it's safe to say that if things are not working out, he needs more practise

Oh, and not meaning to be rude, but possibly if your friend had been a professional opera singer rather than an amateur one, he would have not had so many lapses, or would have not gotten away with them

.

[Christine]

Oh, and not meaning to be rude, but possibly if your friend had been a professional opera singer rather than an amateur one, he would have not had so many lapses, or would have not gotten away with them

 

Yes, I mean not to be funny but this was my point earlier. Mika is a professional musician and I hold him to the same standard as other professional musicians because he is charging money for people to see him perform and this is his chosen profession. And as Deb said awhile ago I think most of us thought he was somewhat of a perfectionist and held himself to an even higher standard than we do.

[sariflor]

He had to look at the lyrics before he started singing the song. That is not enough practice any way you look at it.

 

Exactly

[RAK1]

Rose, I think then it's safe to say that if things are not working out, he needs more practise

 

Oh, and not meaning to be rude, but possibly if your friend had been a professional opera singer rather than an amateur one, he would have not had so many lapses, or would have not gotten away with them

 

 

.

 

Easy to say when you don't sing yourself.

And for your information my friend had been classically trained at Blackheath, by a professional opera vocal coach!

He took his singing seriously, and if it hadn't been for some personal problems, he would have gone on to sing professionally, which he was starting to do, on a small scale.

ALL singers have bad days.

And when it's a new song, Mika is not the first artist to have a lyric sheet there to back him up.

If you recall, at Katy Perrys first gig at Water Rats, she had a few iffy notes. But again, I'm putting that down to nerves, and not condeming her for not practicing enough, because the rest of the show, she was fantastic.

[sariflor]

Look, this is what I'm trying to put across here. Maybe a visual will help.

I'm not for a second saying that I don't want Mika evolving, or bettering himself, or changing. Far from it. But what I don't want, is him changing if this means that he loses substance, passion, and quality in his singing.

This is a little video of the first time that I saw him live, and he totally blew me away. I think that, even though the quality of the video is super crap (it was a mobile phone recording on not a great one), you can still make out what I'm saying.

These were the days before he became fixated on the 'visuals' and the show, the theatrics, the calculated moves, and the difference is...pretty obvious to anyone who has eyes on their face

The passion he had here, the spontaneity, in short, the LIFE. Nothing beats this, and this is the Mika that I love, and I hope I will see again

 

[YOUTUBE]eKxZWc_zcYE[/YOUTUBE]

[Christine]

And when it's a new song, Mika is not the first artist to have a lyric sheet there to back him up.

 

I have been to hundreds of gigs and I've never seen anyone excuse themselves while they read over the lyrics before they start singing their own song. Furthermore I don't recall Mika doing this the first couple of years either. I don't even think he had his eyes open during GGG and it's a lot more complicated than BIOTW lyrically.

[cathouzouf]

Easy to say when you don't sing yourself.

And for your information my friend had been classically trained at Blackheath, by a professional opera vocal coach!

He took his singing seriously, and if it hadn't been for some personal problems, he would have gone on to sing professionally, which he was starting to do, on a small scale.

ALL singers have bad days.

And when it's a new song, Mika is not the first artist to have a lyric sheet there to back him up.

If you recall, at Katy Perrys first gig at Water Rats, she had a few iffy notes. But again, I'm putting that down to nerves, and not condeming her for not practicing enough, because the rest of the show, she was fantastic.

 

I clearly saw Bon Jovi use video monitors for lyrics in their last show

[RAK1]

Look, this is what I'm trying to put across here. Maybe a visual will help.

 

I'm not for a second saying that I don't want Mika evolving, or bettering himself, or changing. Far from it. But what I don't want, is him changing if this means that he loses substance, passion, and quality in his singing.

 

This is a little video of the first time that I saw him live, and he totally blew me away. I think that, even though the quality of the video is super crap (it was a mobile phone recording on not a great one), you can still make out what I'm saying.

 

These were the days before he became fixated on the 'visuals' and the show, the theatrics, the calculated moves, and the difference is...pretty obvious to anyone who has eyes on their face

 

The passion he had here, the spontaneity, in short, the LIFE. Nothing beats this, and this is the Mika that I love, and I hope I will see again

 

[YOUTUBE]eKxZWc_zcYE[/YOUTUBE]

 

 

I understand what you mean, but even back then he was prone to mucking up lyrics. And yes, you might think by now, he would have got over that, but as I have said before, even the most seasoned performer can be prone to it, it all depends to their mind set on the night.

Like actors who have been going for years, needing prompts, because they have forgotten the next line. It's more common than you might think.

[RAK1]

I clearly saw Bon Jovi use video monitors for lyrics in their last show

 

I thought I heard somewhere that Robbie Williams, has needed prompts in the past.

It can happen to the best singers, every now and again.

[cathouzouf]

I thought I heard somewhere that Robbie Williams, has needed prompts in the past.

It can happen to the best singers, every now and again.

 

They all have my respect because there is no way in hell I would be able to remember all these words...

 

So I don't blame them at all to use some kind of security blanket:wink2:

[tiibet]

Actually, there is .The absolute truth is that:

-He forgot the lyrics to French EMD the first time he performed it

-He had to have the English EMD lyrics taped to the floor because he didn't know them

-He was really off pitch in BIOTW

Now, to me that just screams of not being adequately prepared. And if he had had no time to spend on prepping the shows, and had just been pulled out off a crowd and thrown on stage for a last minute impro show, I would understand this.

But when he's (clearly) spent so much time and energy (and money?) on the stage and costumes, and the 'visual show', it's just very clear where he's chosen to spend his time and energy.

And that, my friend, is not a matter of personal taste or opinion, but just mere facts

 

We are talking about different things I have not denied he was unprepared with his new songs (especially BIOTW) in the beginning. I have especially explained how the song evolved so much during this summer. He rehearsed it long time before the Corsica show and I think it was clearly much better at Paleo festival (the last show I heard it). He was very nervous in Compiegne, we could hear it. That's why I never even uploaded BIOTW from Compiegne to Youtube. I wanted to wait for better versions and I think he did it much better versions later, for example in Corsica and Nyon (Paleo).

 

What I find as a matter of opinion is if he should have concentrated more on singing or show elements. I was there and saw several shows. The problems he had with that one particular song was a tiny detail in otherwise good, professional and energetic shows. Several big festival audiences (only Compiegne and Corsica were his solo concerts) loved him. People seemed to enjoy a lot both his singing and his show. And after seeing several previous shows already I thought the Marie Antoinette set was very well done and it was a good show. He was unprepared with one/two songs but he did good shows and had a very good contact with his audiences. He can't bluff me with a few paintings and two chandeliers, not any more. So there is no absolute truth if he did right or wrong decisions. And yes, many aspects in this discussion are actually just opinions.

 

I think he genuinely didn't have much time to rehearse before he performed EMD in French first times. It was written just a bit earlier. His French label might have had something to say with the timing. Singing it in English in Schaffhausen was a last minute decision. He realized how much his fans wanted to hear it and he knew so many people wanted to have an English version for the song. So he took a risk and performed it English even he didn't know the lyrics without a paper, and at the same time he showed the English lyrics are clever and smart and not a clumsy, quick translation. So every fan in Schaffhausen was more than happy, every festival goer seemed to enjoy the show a lot and I think seeing a new song for the first time was quite a bonus to them as well (maybe also a funny detail with all the chatting and not knowing the lyrics). It was a bonus to everyone who was there (and now his fans also know there is a good English version to look forward to). So you understand why I see this conversation a bit surprising?

 

Also, for me it's really important to see how his new songs evolve and not only the polished versions. That's the whole point to see several shows. I think many fans agree with me? And for average festival/show goer it's important to hear a good show in general (especially some of his old songs they know in advance) and people are not usually unhappy if he does one song a bit unprepared in the end. So personally I can't understand why we link here those videos we are not pleased with and not some of all those hundreds good versions...?

 

(Again, if he decides to concentrate only on singing and do more shows like Little Noise, I WON'T complain )

 

Off topic (a bit)

I relly really enjoy reading everything you write and I truly hope one day we'll have the opportunity to meet face to face because I toally agree with you. The main reason I got so hooked on Mika is that I think he is a very fascinating person:wink2:

 

Looking forward to it!

[Sabine64]

We are talking about different things I have not denied he was unprepared with his new songs (especially BIOTW) in the beginning. I have especially explained how the song evolved so much during this summer. He rehearsed it long time before the Corsica show and I think it was clearly much better at Paleo festival (the last show I heard it). He was very nervous in Compiegne, we could hear it. That's why I never even uploaded BIOTW from Compiegne to Youtube. I wanted to wait for better versions and I think he did it much better versions later, for example in Corsica and Nyon (Paleo).

 

What I find as a matter of opinion is if he should have concentrated more on singing or show elements. I was there and saw several shows. The problems he had with that one particular song was a tiny detail in otherwise good, professional and energetic shows. Several big festival audiences (only Compiegne and Corsica were his solo concerts) loved him. People seemed to enjoy a lot both his singing and his show. And after seeing several previous shows already I thought the Marie Antoinette set was very well done and it was a good show. He was unprepared with one/two songs but he did good shows and had a very good contact with his audiences. He can't bluff me with a few paintings and two chandeliers, not any more. So there is no absolute truth if he did right or wrong decisions. And yes, many aspects in this discussion are actually just opinions.

 

I think he genuinely didn't have much time to rehearse before he performed EMD in French first times. It was written just a bit earlier. His French label might have had something to say with the timing. Singing it in English in Schaffhausen was a last minute decision. He realized how much his fans wanted to hear it and he knew so many people wanted to have an English version for the song. So he took a risk and performed it English even he didn't know the lyrics without a paper, and at the same time he showed the English lyrics are clever and smart and not a clumsy, quick translation. So every fan in Schaffhausen was more than happy, every festival goer seemed to enjoy the show a lot and I think seeing a new song for the first time was quite a bonus to them as well (maybe also a funny detail with all the chatting and not knowing the lyrics). It was a bonus to everyone who was there (and now his fans also know there is a good English version to look forward to). So you understand why I see this conversation a bit surprising?

 

Also, for me it's really important to see how his new songs evolve and not only the polished versions. That's the whole point to see several shows. I think many fans agree with me? And for average festival/show goer it's important to hear a good show in general (especially some of his old songs they know in advance) and people are not usually unhappy if he does one song a bit unprepared in the end. So personally I can't understand why we link here those videos we are not pleased with and not some of all those hundreds good versions...?

 

(Again, if he decides to concentrate only on singing and do more shows like Little Noise, I WON'T complain )

 

 

 

Looking forward to it!

 

Tiibet you know that I agree with you but I think you waste your energy posting here ( in this thread ). There are a few people who think they are more intelligent, clever and know everything better than anyone else and tell that the world all the time. They don´t really want to know what you are writing, they only want to have a reason to answer you with their opinion. That´s the reason why I decided to ignore every single post they write. It´s absolutely senseless.....

[babspanky]

Tiibet you know that I agree with you but I think you waste your energy posting here ( in this thread ). There are a few people who think they are more intelligent, clever and know everything better than anyone else and tell that the world all the time. They don´t really want to know what you are writing, they only want to have a reason to answer you with their opinion. That´s the reason why I decided to ignore every single post they write. It´s absolutely senseless.....

 

You could also reverse that and say some people don't really want to know what those other people (who think they are more intelligent, clever and know everything better than anyone else and tell the world all the time) are writing.

It does work both ways.

 

And if you are going to be so cutting, you might as well name names. But then again I guess it's obvious who you mean. Sigh.

[sariflor]

Tiibet you know that I agree with you but I think you waste your energy posting here ( in this thread ). There are a few people who think they are more intelligent, clever and know everything better than anyone else and tell that the world all the time. They don´t really want to know what you are writing, they only want to have a reason to answer you with their opinion. That´s the reason why I decided to ignore every single post they write. It´s absolutely senseless.....

 

I could say many things about this post, but I guess that it's pretty pointless, as your mind seems set in stone, and you're probably going to ignore what I say anyway... But let's say that I find it hugely offensive to make a statement like this on a public thread, accusing without having the decency to speak to the ones you're talking about directly, as Bab says, AND especially considering that you don't know us at all.

 

You don't know me, my thoughts or my motivations, so it's quite out of order IMO to make a statement like that, insulting and pointless.

 

I have a few opinions about some people,obviously,as we're all human and therefore some will like achother and some will not, but I don't find it acceptable to post my private (subjective) opinions on the forum. It's just rude and bad form.

 

Anyway, to recap, you will obviously carry on thinking what you want, but i'd like to say that you're just wrong on your perceptions.

[guylainem123]

I don't think this thread is about people trying to change other people's opinion. It is very interesting to read what everyone has to say. It turned out to be not about an "out of tune" discussion, but the reasons behind it, which we are all free to express our own opinion on.

 

So let's not get upset with each other please.

 

I, for one, am very interested in what Tiibet has to say as she was present to so many concerts this summer. I value her opinion and want to hear it.

I always thought that Mika only performed the english version to please the crowd who had heard it in english at soundcheck. She confirmed this for me. In this case, i think it was sweet of him to do so & I'm glad he listened to his fans. If she tells me that he was nervous in Compiegne, I have to take her word for it. She's seen enough shows to be able to tell the difference.

 

But it doesn't change my opinion to think that Mika was pressured into releasing "elle me dit" to the world, before he was ready. It may be due to marketing to help sell Compiegne, we will never know. I do love the song & i'm happy that it's a hit in my province, because we speak french.

 

As for BIOTW, Ida had no problems with the lyrics, that's why i'm surprised that Mika needed a sheet, even if he wrote it. Do i think it was ready to be released to the world? Will it sound like that on the CD? I'll just have to wait and see. I remember the discussion we all had about "Rain" from what we had heard at PDP. Some loved it, some hated it. In the end, it was so different on the album.

 

I haven't seen anyone mentioning anything about "82, rue des Martyrs (aka Karen)". From what i can see on youtube, he seemed to have no problem with this song at all. I think the lyrics of this song are much harder to remember then BIOTW I reserve my opinion about this song... I will have to hear a proper recording or live to make up my mind. The verdict isn't out yet

 

I don't get to see many live shows, I have to rely on what other members who were present have to say. In my opinion, Tiibet is right in saying that the average festival goer was probably happy with Mika's music & singing. I bet nobody but hard core fans noticed anything different. But the opionion of people who weren't there, who have seen many shows is also interesting to read. Alot of you can read his body language from experience. I also notice that sometimes, he sings with his eyes closed most of the show (like he did alot in Montreal Oct. 2009) I wondered if it was due to nerves or does he do that alot around the world & i just didn't notice before?

 

That being said, i can't wait to hear his new CD. But because i want the best for him, i am willing to wait... and wait. I am just afraid that if he waits to long, some of the fans he has will have moved on to someone else & that he will have to work twice as hard to get them back.

 

When i heard "elle me dit", i immediately fell in love with it... lyric sheet in hand or not. That's why MFCers in Montreal pressured the radio stations to get it played. It worked & i'm glad. It's been #1 on Itunes Canada (french music) for 2 weeks now. And that's without Mika doing any promotion, interviews or anything. As for the overall Canadian sell of Itunes Canada, it is at #74... which isn't bad considering.

[guylainem123]

i forgot to mention something.

 

Mika said that he had 7 songs out of 12 ready for the album. I'm assuming it didn't include the bonus tracks of "Elle me dit" and "82, rue des Martyrs (Karen)

 

Isn't it unusual for bonus tracks to be ready before the others?

[Christine]

I also want to hear what Tiibet has to say. I think these types of discussions are a good way to get to know people. I don't want to chat about the weather, I want to talk about Blame It On The Weather. I'm just not a small talk type of person generally and the beauty of the internet is you can switch straight into higher gears because people have come together because they feel passionately about a subject.

 

I agree with Tiibet on most things (I am a Mika fan believe it or not!! ) but I think it's normal that the areas that are going to generate the most discussion are the ones where we have a different viewpoint. I am not really interested in threads where it's just "Mika is great!" "Yes! I agree!"

 

For sure there is a time and place for that when something exciting has just happened and well...Mika IS being great so it can't be helped. But Mika's going to be off most likely for a few months and people are going to talk about what they hope for in new music and new tour, etc. and not everyone is going to see it the same way.

[LeiRe]

What I find out of order, and saddens and irritates me as a fan, is the huge amount of comments posted on his fan club focusing on and stressing negative details of his performances, songs, videos, even tweets and pics, contests, the way he manages his career!, and so on (which for me are petty, when existing), instead of emphasizing the endless list of positive things one can say about him, both as an artist and as a person.

 

It’s not that people shouldn’t be allowed to not like Blame It On The Weather or to say his website could be run better, or anything – these are just examples. It goes without saying everyone should be free to express opinions, but seriously, is this sort of campaign against anything he does necessary, systematically, day after day, for months?

 

To me, it often looks as if pleasure was taken in criticizing his every move, and I don’t get it. I just don’t. I don’t go on Lady Gaga forums to say what I think of her as an artist or about the circus around her. It’d make no sense. I just let people who like what she does enjoy, and don’t interfere. I wouldn’t waste my time on it, anyway.

 

And really, I don’t mean to offend anyone, but that’s what I think. I have never ever read on other artists’ forums, so I have no idea if there are fans like that on them all too, or this case is exceptional, so to say, but I often do wish this one could have a different tone... That’d be great, for I genuinely find all this very sad, and disturbing.

 

[Christine]

i forgot to mention something.

 

Mika said that he had 7 songs out of 12 ready for the album. I'm assuming it didn't include the bonus tracks of "Elle me dit" and "82, rue des Martyrs (Karen)

 

Isn't it unusual for bonus tracks to be ready before the others?

 

They weren't ready. That's what we're talking about.

 

I don't know what Mika means by "ready". Is that the word he used? Maybe Karen is also at the demo stage and some of the English ones have been recorded. Obviously EMD wasn't ready at all and that's why there was a mad scramble to get it to radio within 48 hours.

[guylainem123]

They weren't ready. That's what we're talking about.

 

I don't know what Mika means by "ready". Is that the word he used? Maybe Karen is also at the demo stage and some of the English ones have been recorded. Obviously EMD wasn't ready at all and that's why there was a mad scramble to get it to radio within 48 hours.

 

well, maybe ready was the wrong word choice... maybe "worked on" would have been more appropriate?

 

say Mika has 30 songs ready for this album. He (and whoever is working with him) chooses the 12 best ones... and then they figure out the 2 that will be released as a "bonus" ?

 

That's why i think it had alot to do with marketing/timing of Compiegne

[guylainem123]

What I find out of order, and saddens and irritates me as a fan, is the huge amount of comments posted on his fan club focusing on and stressing negative details of his performances, songs, videos, even tweets and pics, contests, the way he manages his career!, and so on (which for me are petty, when existing), instead of emphasizing the endless list of positive things one can say about him, both as an artist and as a person.

 

It’s not that people shouldn’t be allowed to not like Blame It On The Weather or to say his website could be run better, or anything – these are just examples. It goes without saying everyone should be free to express opinions, but seriously, is this sort of campaign against anything he does necessary, systematically, day after day, for months?

 

To me, it often looks as if pleasure was taken in criticizing his every move, and I don’t get it. I just don’t. I don’t go on Lady Gaga forums to say what I think of her as an artist or about the circus around her. It’d make no sense. I just let people who like what she does enjoy, and don’t interfere. I wouldn’t waste my time on it, anyway.

 

And really, I don’t mean to offend anyone, but that’s what I think. I have never ever read on other artists’ forums, so I have no idea if there are fans like that on them all too, or this case is exceptional, so to say, but I often do wish this one could have a different tone... That’d be great, for I genuinely find all this very sad, and disturbing.

 

 

I have never read on any other artist's forum either, so i'm not sure how things are discussed. I would never think of going on ex: Gaga's forum or other artists forum , simply because i don't know enough about them to form an opinion, nor (is that even a word? ) do i care to. I hear their songs, i like or dislike and i'm not bothered to much about the rest.

 

Mika is different for me. I've watched his career evolve from the start. He is the first and only artist that had such impact on me.

 

I do believe that even with all our different opinions, we are all Mika fans & only want the best for him.

 

Some fans feel that the best way to support him is to only mention positive comments about him and some feel it is best to voice their opinion/concerns even if it is not positive. I don't always agree with either sides, but i do enjoy reading what everyone has to say. I take what i like and leave what i don't.

 

Mika always said that he draws opposite reaction from people and i think this is also valid for this forum also.

[babspanky]

I really don't know what to say to these arguments. I mostly say what I think, is that wrong?

I'm sorry if people don't agree and it distresses them. I don't see that it is out of order though. Everyone has different opinions.

 

I can't wax lyrical about the endless positive things about Mika, things have to have a balance. As there are so many people already doing that, someone has to balance it out so it often seems some people are always negative. Not so, even if that is what people believe.

 

I know a lot of people don't want to hear anything negative about Mika at all or even have any discussions or debate, but if that's the case, use the ignore button rather than getting yourselves upset.

[Christine]

To me, it often looks as if pleasure was taken in criticizing his every move, and I don’t get it. I just don’t. I don’t go on Lady Gaga forums to say what I think of her as an artist or about the circus around her. It’d make no sense. I just let people who like what she does enjoy, and don’t interfere. I wouldn’t waste my time on it, anyway.

 

You say that as if you are not a Lady Gaga fan and equally the people posting comments you think are negative are not Mika fans either.

 

Why do people who have been Mika's fans since before LICM was released, have worked for him for free, have uploaded hundreds of videos to share with other fans, have sung his praises in thousands of posts on this forum, have written him letters and given him gifts to express their appreciation, put together yearbooks, facilitated getting fans together at events to support him, etc., etc. etc....why do these people come onto MFC to say what they think of Mika as an artist and what they think of his shows?

 

Seriously? Is that what you're asking?

 

LeiRe I understand your point about wanting MFC to take a positive tone. It's great that you love Mika and you support him by going to his gigs, etc. I came to appreciate that at the Points gig and even though I am cynical by nature () after all these months I do take you at your word now that you wanted to move past some of the friction from when you first came to MFC.

 

But other people are allowed to be fans even if they don't love everything he does all the time. You say that it's okay for people to not like BIOTW but that is really not the impression I get from some of your comments (like the one above). What I hear from you is that if they don't love everything he does that they are not fans and don't have any business here.

 

The negative tone I pick up on MFC is not people disliking Mika's latest video because he's not in it, but members telling other members what to say and not say, what to think and not think, etc.

[Douleur]

Argh, I didn't mean for the thread to be perceived that way, and I didn't want all the fighting. I was just worried something might be happening to his voice...

[PurpleCat]

Tiibet you know that I agree with you but I think you waste your energy posting here ( in this thread ). There are a few people who think they are more intelligent, clever and know everything better than anyone else and tell that the world all the time. They don´t really want to know what you are writing, they only want to have a reason to answer you with their opinion. That´s the reason why I decided to ignore every single post they write. It´s absolutely senseless.....

 

 

And I also agree with Tiibet, by the way.

 

What I find out of order, and saddens and irritates me as a fan, is the huge amount of comments posted on his fan club focusing on and stressing negative details of his performances, songs, videos, even tweets and pics, contests, the way he manages his career!, and so on (which for me are petty, when existing), instead of emphasizing the endless list of positive things one can say about him, both as an artist and as a person.

 

It’s not that people shouldn’t be allowed to not like Blame It On The Weather or to say his website could be run better, or anything – these are just examples. It goes without saying everyone should be free to express opinions, but seriously, is this sort of campaign against anything he does necessary, systematically, day after day, for months?

 

To me, it often looks as if pleasure was taken in criticizing his every move, and I don’t get it. I just don’t. I don’t go on Lady Gaga forums to say what I think of her as an artist or about the circus around her. It’d make no sense. I just let people who like what she does enjoy, and don’t interfere. I wouldn’t waste my time on it, anyway.

 

And really, I don’t mean to offend anyone, but that’s what I think. I have never ever read on other artists’ forums, so I have no idea if there are fans like that on them all too, or this case is exceptional, so to say, but I often do wish this one could have a different tone... That’d be great, for I genuinely find all this very sad, and disturbing.

 

 

Can't agree more!