nas Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 wITH WHAT, mISS iNGSTER, IF WE MAY ASK??? yes please enquiring minds want to know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 My opinion was that the pre-promotion dry spell is not a harbinger of doom for his career just because it's different than last time. I agree with that. Camille was asking why there isn't as much excitement on MFC as last time and I think it's because Mika is not generating the excitement. Mika's career is not dependent on MFC so that is a different issue altogether. I can look up the Duffy info for you later if you're interested (and Mana had also found an article about another group who was popular when Mika came on the scene, who suffered the same fate). It is the sad reality today because of the same corporate bottom line principles that are impacting everyone these days. These companies are no longer interested in investing in artist development and will cut their losses as quickly as they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IngievV Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 wITH WHAT, mISS iNGSTER, IF WE MAY ASK??? Just...stuff...you know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willywonka Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Just...stuff...you know... Sure, Ingie, sure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmmaImogen Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I am entertaining myself with the two greatest things in the entire world:Mika and Doctor Who I hope you all enjoy these because it was really hard to find videos that went well with the music and are fun to watch even if you have no clue who the Doctor is. I think I succeeded twice. [YOUTUBE]UgZmMaG_iKU[/YOUTUBE] [YOUTUBE]8c_aoCC-0LU[/YOUTUBE] I tried to find videos with other incarnations of the Doctor, but they were all driven by the plot of the show. So, the clips didn't go with the music in a way that made sense unless you had actually seen the show. Fun for fans of the show, but not anybody else. I chose two that were musically driven and they just happened to feature the same incarnation of the Doctor. I didn't think Mika and Doctor Who would go together that well, but they really do These are so brilliant!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lollipop_monkey Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Comparing this current dry spell with the lead up to WAG is a bit like comparing Christmas to a regular school day; makes the ordinary seem far more unpleasant than it actually is. For months before the WAG excitement, everybody was sitting around complaining about how he was spending too much time on promotion, side projects, and personal time and how we would have the new album faster if he would stop wasting time playing and focus solely on the album. Um, what? When were MFCers complaining about Mika spending time on promotion? What promotion are you referring to? We have actually had many more songs and gigs to talk about in this gap, but without something for us to buy, we seem far less interested in the work because we don't have something to show for it other than the tofu dolls, which are much more expensive and rare than DVDs and EPs. You've lost me again. Last time we had: *Rain *Blame it on the Girls *Toy Boy *Good Gone Girl *Lonely Alcoholic *Lady Jane *Blue Eyes This time around we've had: *Elle Me Dit *Blame it on the Weather *Karen/82 Rue Des Martyrs *Underwater So...seven songs versus four. And not to get into any nationalist debate, but Mika did originally position himself as an English-speaking artist and so far we've heard only two English songs. Either way you slice it, there have been fewer new songs this time around. As for gigs...in the last 14 months Mika has played about 16 public shows, and likely won't be playing any additional shows for the remainder of 2011 and into 2012. So that'll be just over a dozen shows he's done in over a year and a half. Last time around he was doing festival dates in July 2008 and by June 2009 had embarked on the acoustic tour featuring new music. There wasn't even a full year's gap before he was out touring new music last time. Everything is very much the same as it was during the last dry spell. We just have less to gossip about because he isn't tweeting all of the things that made everybody complain he was wasting too much time last time around and less to complain about because he isn't keeping us informed of his side projects this time. That's my point...everything is NOT the same. Last time around we had blogs, vlogs, tweets, more new music. Of course it's entirely up to you whether you care one way or the other what he's doing differently, but to say things are the same is quite obviously incorrect. If every artist who didn't have a hit single or album got dropped by their record company, we would only have ten or twenty artists to listen to and the record companies would go broke because they would have nothing to sell. http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/mar/24/the-hoosiers-bumpy-ride http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/oct/27/when-bands-fall-off-cliffs?CMP=twt_gu Will that happen to Mika? Probably not, as long as he maintains success in other markets (France, South Korea, etc). But it can and does happen. Besides, generating buzz too early would be like putting Christmas stuff in the stores in August. Saturate the market too early and people won't care by the time the album comes out. Just watch. He'll be promoting the album a few months before it's ready to go and everybody will forget all of this handwringing about why he isn't twitting more and getting us all excited Right Now. So you're saying that Mika jumped the gun last time by showing us studio tours a full year before the album was released, and by showing us new music snippets seven months before the album was released? Thing is, this sort of fan engagement stuff is what the vast majority of his peers are doing. I follow a bunch of different artists and almost all of them are blogging, vlogging, tweeting, etc to keep in touch with their fanbase even when they don't have something new to sell. Everyone's doing it, from little-known indie artists right up to Justin Bieber and Shakira. The fan engagement stuff is a different animal than the Major Label Promo Machine™ that will indeed spin up in the few months preceeding the album's release, bringing with it the usual TV appearances, radio appearances, print ads, etc. I agree that you can target traditional media to coincide with an album's release, but you can't just turn fan engagement initiatives on and off. It doesn't work like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sariflor Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 You know maybe Mika has decided that life is too short to spend so much of his time promoting his work. I can understand that. He's got a comfortable success in France and he's being hired for private gigs, etc. which is probably more than paying his bills. He's had a scare with his family, he's grown up in the past few years, etc. I can understand all of that. But that doesn't mean that things have not changed from the perspective of the fan. Yep, that is it exactly . I second all of this. The first new music vlog was released on Valentine's Day, if I recall correctly, and I basically inhaled my "romantic Valentine's dinner" to get back online and talk to other MFCers about the vlog - and to replay it over and over. I can't even properly express how...electric?...that time was, from the first new music vlog to the release of TBWKTM. That's what I miss most about the vlogs and regular tweets - the excitement of getting that little tidbit of something truly awesome and knowing the final product will be mindblowing. With Mika gone AWOL there's nothing to get excited about. Exactly . It was amazing. It's even hard to find words to describe how it felt. It was really fantastic. EDIT: Here's the thread starting when people first found the first new music vlog, and everyone going MENTAL with excitement in response. Sigh. People were so eager those days that they'd sit on YouTube refreshing his page hoping something would be posted. I miss that electricity and excitement so much. If you weren't on MFC in those days (or were, and want a trip down memory lane) it's worth making a cuppa tea and having a read. http://www.mikafanclub.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2134245#post2134245 (You may even notice some of the MFCers who are often accused of being too criticial or anti-Mika fangurling along with the best of them...) Oh my goodness I kinda cringe when I read some of my old posts, hahahaha!!!!!! Those were the days though, sigh. Silly Mika . Surely he can tell the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nenartus Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I don't mind that Mika's not blogging, vlogging, tweeting. He is obviously not everyone, and if he has nothing to say it's better to keep working than wasting time on some vid. From 40 vlogs how many were about the new album? Really. Maybe it was fun for him last time but he got bored, and I don't blame him. He did more summer gigs than it was planned, he sang some new songs. For me that's quite enough. I like surprises and don't mind waiting for them. I even don't want to listen to Underwater, cause I want to here the recorded version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siu Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 @riverstwilight Most of what you write in your many posts makes a lot of sense to me, so I won't quote it all. But I do turn up my thumb to it I must admit I don't get most of the yada-yada about not being sufficiently entertained by MIKA and honestly, I don't want to hear the you-were-not-here-the-last-time crap again, please! Firstly, because it's a shallow argument, if we do consider it as one. And secondly, IMO we have been well entertained by the summer gigs and four new songs and I personally get my fangurling needs satisfied with these. As much as MIKA's music is a part of my everyday life, he's not the centre of my life and thank heavens I have no time ponder over pseudo problems such as whether I am or am not entertained or whether he's doing enough for his fans. I simply put on my headphones and the magic is working all over again. MFC holds only a fraction of all MIKAfans all over the world and only a fraction of the members claim they might lose interest in MIKA if he doesn't change the way he communicates with his fans. This fraction of a fraction is not going to determine the success of the third album. If it's lousy (which I seriously doubt) it couldn't be saved even if we all held hand and cheered altogether. But if it is as good as the snippets of information we've got prove it to be, it will be a hit regardless of whether random fans were or were not entertained. If the music is good, even if he loses a few fans (tough I do have doubts about anyone being serious about losing interest in MIKA. If you lose interest you just don't care enough to repeatedly voice it out ), but he'd attract so many new. Grace Kelly and LICM as a whole had an amazing breakthrough even though MIKA lacked a considerable fanbase at the time. He had worked his magic on the music and that's why it sold millions. And I'm sure we'll soon be buzzing around him like bees again . For us waiting for the third album is like waiting for the second. For him writing the third album is most probably different. Due to the pre-second-album vlogs and tweets and alike we have some expectations. He most probably doesn't cling on to the days two and a half years back. We want him to evolve and grow as an artist and yet we want him to do it the way we see right. He takes on exciting projects and feels happy enough to tweet about these. We don't like it. He'd better give us new music. He gives us new music, we're kind enough to like it, but want more and faster. Why couldn't we just focus on the good and not have any expectations and compare then and now? We don't have to like everything he does, but the least we could to is to keep our negativity to ourselves and spare others from our frustration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clara85 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 They also did a lot of Tower of Power and Earth Wind and Fire. I love all that 70s music with horns and sax. We had initially been hoping that Greg's band would perform first so we didn't have to stay all night but all the music was great. me too I'm glad for you, they must have been a wonderful evening sorry for my bad english Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guylainem123 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Siu, not going to quote you because your post was long but maybe it's harder to "get" the yada-yada for the ones who weren't there to experience it first hand. That's when Rose (RAK) stopped going to bed at a decent time, that's when refresh was the most used button on everyone's screen. A.Clay had seen a vlog that nobody else could see, she was trying to describe it to us and at the same time, trying to convince us all that she had not lost her mind I also remember how much we laughed when we noticed that Mika had changed his picture on youtube for a picture of him with a chicken it was so funny! It was also when Mika started the Blackhall project and Robie had the great idea that we could do the same & send drawings back and forth. Lots of us got to know each other with this project. It was really fun, because Mika would do something then we either discussed it to death OR we took part in it in our own way. I'm sure for some what is going on now is enough, and that's OK as it is a personal choice. But i miss the excitement that Mika created between his 1st and 2nd album and i feel previledged to have experienced it with many other members. I wouldn't trade that feeling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Why is it impossible to discuss the facts without people coming along to put words in the mouths of others? Camille said that MFC was not as full of excitement as it was in the lead up to TBWKTM. I said it is because Mika is not generating the excitement you can read in those vlog-related posts by sharing the process of album making with us directly as he did last time. That's it. I did not say Mika's career is going to flop. I did not say that you were not here the last time so your opinion is not valid. I did not say that Mika has some duty to entertain me. I did not say that I do not want Mika to evolve artistically (although why anyone sees that as mutually exclusive with his keeping in contact with fans is beyond me.) Why couldn't we just focus on the good and not have any expectations and compare then and now? We don't have to like everything he does, but the least we could to is to keep our negativity to ourselves and spare others from our frustration. Why can't we just discuss facts without several people coming along and labelling it "negative" and deciding it should therefore be off limits for discussion? Why is it that when a fact is deemed negative that it has to be denied, thereby creating an absurd argument about whether the sky is really blue and everyone who rightly points out that the sky is blue is a negative nelly and a bad fan! :rolls_eyes: Honestly I do not understand this game of trying to paint people as negative by provoking arguments by misstating facts or worse, implying that someone said something they didn't say. If Person B quotes person A and says something that is not true (eg that this dry spell is exactly the same as the last dry spell) then obviously Person A is going to point out that they are incorrect. It doesn't mean Person A is focusing on the negative. It doesn't mean that they are trying to frustrate person B since they weren't addressing Person B in the first place. It doesn't mean they are being horrible to Mika. It means that they want to discuss the facts and not some alternate version of reality. I don't know what people are trying to achieve by this because you are not going to censor the discussion here. I guess if the goal is to make certain fans appear like the "nasty guy" you're doing a bang up job. Bravo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 i miss the excitement that Mika created between his 1st and 2nd album and i feel previledged to have experienced it with many other members. I wouldn't trade that feeling Exactly. I find it offensive and ridiculous that anyone would label this sentiment as negative and tell us to keep it to ourselves. And I'm going to stop there before I say something I regret... Good night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamy_Queen Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 For us waiting for the third album is like waiting for the second. For him writing the third album is most probably different. Due to the pre-second-album vlogs and tweets and alike we have some expectations. He most probably doesn't cling on to the days two and a half years back. We want him to evolve and grow as an artist and yet we want him to do it the way we see right. He takes on exciting projects and feels happy enough to tweet about these. We don't like it. He'd better give us new music. He gives us new music, we're kind enough to like it, but want more and faster. Why couldn't we just focus on the good and not have any expectations and compare then and now? We don't have to like everything he does, but the least we could to is to keep our negativity to ourselves and spare others from our frustration. I didn't want to be involved into such arguments again, but I just can't hold myself - because I'm totally agree with Siu, and seems like no-one else is agree. MFC is never satisfied, whatever Mika does. So, we can say anything we want and moan as much as we need, but there is a saying: the dogs barks, but the caravan goes on (sorry if is sounds rude). My husband is a programmer, and he says: if we listen to customer comments, we will fail in the near future. The same with Mika. He does what he considers to be right, and no-one will change it. He is professional and works with professionals. I'm not saying that MFCers shouldn't have discussions like this, no! We have to do something to entertain us And it's pity that I can't experience all the excitement that you are telling about (concerning the 2 album). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzie Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 My husband is a programmer, and he says: if we listen to customer comments, we will fail in the near future. This quote would be right if you hadn't forgotten to add "don't" before the word "listen".... Seriously though, that attitude comes from the mentality of the Eastern bloc. However, I understand it is difficult to erase decades of dictatorship and a total neglect of consumer needs. My country has been there, too. Sorry, that was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamy_Queen Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 This quote would be right if you hadn't forgotten to add "don't" before the word "listen".... Seriously though, that attitude comes from the mentality of the Eastern bloc. However, I understand it is difficult to erase decades of dictatorship and a total neglect of consumer needs. My country has been there, too. No, it's not historical issues, it's checked by experience. Consumers always moan, everyone can't be satisfied, but hubbie's product stays on top, and after the wave of moaning appears only "Awesome!" comments. I don't tell that user needs shouldn't be taken into account! But sometimes they are against something new, and it is manufacturer's task to show users that they are wrong. But it is really off topic now We were talking about vlogs and tweets... sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siu Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Siu, not going to quote you because your post was long but maybe it's harder to "get" the yada-yada for the ones who weren't there to experience it first hand. [...] i feel previledged to have experienced it with many other members. I wouldn't trade that feeling (Quoting your post as a whole, just cutting it a bit shorter for the sake of convenience. I very much like the last bit of your post ) I was not there to experience it, but what I don't get is that if it was such an amazing experience, why not simply cherish the memories and not compare the present to the past? Would it really be better, if he did all the same things now that he did then? Wouldn't it be walking the same path all over again? I'm pretty sure it would not be equally exciting as it was back then. It wouldn't be the first time any more. The making of the 3rd album is different from making the 2nd and I'm positive that the making of the 4th, 5th and the 15th will also be different form the previous. I don't say that he shouldn't spill occasional beans, but if he doesn't it's his choice. I'd rather that he focused entirely on making the new album as amazing as possible . I personally feel excited even without getting regular updates, but maybe I'm just too easy to please . I'm happy for those, who had the chance to witness the making of TBWKTM, but if it means disappointment during the making of TOOL I'm happy I have a fresh start and maybe join them the next time around . No, kidding, I won't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzie Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 No, it's not historical issues, it's checked by experience. Consumers always moan, everyone can't be satisfied, but hubbie's product stays on top, and after the wave of moaning appears only "Awesome!" comments. I don't tell that user needs shouldn't be taken into account! But sometimes they are against something new, and it is manufacturer's task to show users that they are wrong. oh, I see what you mean now. So basically, you say that Mika shouldn't bother about comments on this forum because more people tend to raise their concerns and express their dislikes than the ones who post they apreciate something... I believe it is true in general - not in case of fan forums though as the ones who turn to dislike an arist or lose interest in them simply leave the site and very few explain why. I doubt Mika is reading MFC though if he can't be bothered to even tweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzie Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 maybe it's harder to "get" the yada-yada for the ones who weren't there to experience it first hand. Yes, it is a good point and you brought up some great examples. I also believe that there is a different type of membership here now vs 3-4 years ago. It is not better or worse, just having different expectations not only from an artist but also from a forum in general but I am not going into details about this again. Let's just say that when Mika referred to MFC as being f.......fierce after the iTunes gig, he did not mean the :wub2:s being posted. In those days I found it enough just to read the forum for entertainment but now I feel I need to participate more in the discussion here before it turns totally shallow. It was also when Mika started the Blackhall project and Robie had the great idea that we could do the same & send drawings back and forth. Lots of us got to know each other with this project. So true. Basically, Mika's work inspired us back then and fans' feedback inspired Mika, too. There was interaction between him and fans, and he did use a lot of ideas that came from 'us' fans. Now he puts on his Louboutins and retreats into designer world that is so sophisticated that no mortal can understand what he is all about. I find this one a crucial difference between now and the previous off-peak period. I am not angry with him but find it pretty sad as he did not start out like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamy_Queen Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 oh, I see what you mean now. So basically, you say that Mika shouldn't bother about comments on this forum because more people tend to raise their concerns and express their dislikes than the ones who post they apreciate something...I believe it is true in general - not in case of fan forums though as the ones who turn to dislike an arist or lose interest in them simply leave the site and very few explain why. I doubt Mika is reading MFC though if he can't be bothered to even tweet. No, I'm telling a bit different things. But I won't quote words from my previous posts, because everyone sees only what he wants to see in other people's posts. Of course I would be happy if he updates us. But I won't loose interest to him if I don't hear from his at the moment (and I have some artists that I'm not interested anymore, even if she updates all the time). I just think that we should be more opened to the new things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAK1 Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I find it interesting that it's assumed Mika isn't reading his twitter feed, as he's not tweeting anything. When I'm out on the road, if I'm waiting to be loaded/unloaded, I flick through tweets, just to see what's happening. A lot of those times I don't tweet myself, I just read what others are. Not saying Mika does do this, but if he has an occasional break, he might, just to see what's happening. Unlike Sui, I was here last time, and yes I loved the vlogs and blogs, and yes, it would be great to see him do them again. But as he's not, I feel he is putting his all into this album, and am more excited about hearing the result of that, than seeing what processes he is using to make it. As far as fanship goes, who knows what the new album will bring. It could shed a lot of old fans, bring in a lot of new ones, possibly bring back the old fans that drifted away. We won't know til it's released, and for me that is part of the excitement, seeing the reaction of new fans, especially if they didn't like him before, and something suddenly resonates with them. This quiet period, for us, I'm sure has been far from quiet for Mika. I hope that before Christmas, we hear something from him regarding the album, maybe news of a single (not releasing one, the XCraptor machine would put paid to a good result with that!), but maybe news of a January release. That would get me very excited indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamy_Queen Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Unlike Sui, I was here last time, and yes I loved the vlogs and blogs, and yes, it would be great to see him do them again. But as he's not, I feel he is putting his all into this album, and am more excited about hearing the result of that, than seeing what processes he is using to make it. As far as fanship goes, who knows what the new album will bring. It could shed a lot of old fans, bring in a lot of new ones, possibly bring back the old fans that drifted away. We won't know til it's released, and for me that is part of the excitement, seeing the reaction of new fans, especially if they didn't like him before, and something suddenly resonates with them. Wise words! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathouzouf Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 (Quoting your post as a whole, just cutting it a bit shorter for the sake of convenience. I very much like the last bit of your post ) I was not there to experience it, but what I don't get is that if it was such an amazing experience, why not simply cherish the memories and not compare the present to the past? Would it really be better, if he did all the same things now that he did then? Wouldn't it be walking the same path all over again? I'm pretty sure it would not be equally exciting as it was back then. It wouldn't be the first time any more. The making of the 3rd album is different from making the 2nd and I'm positive that the making of the 4th, 5th and the 15th will also be different form the previous. I don't say that he shouldn't spill occasional beans, but if he doesn't it's his choice. I'd rather that he focused entirely on making the new album as amazing as possible . I personally feel excited even without getting regular updates, but maybe I'm just too easy to please . I'm happy for those, who had the chance to witness the making of TBWKTM, but if it means disappointment during the making of TOOL I'm happy I have a fresh start and maybe join them the next time around . No, kidding, I won't I agree with you:thumb_yello: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nenartus Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 In those days I found it enough just to read the forum for entertainment but now I feel I need to participate more in the discussion here before it turns totally shallow. This quote would be right if you hadn't forgotten to add "don't" before the word "listen".... Seriously though, that attitude comes from the mentality of the Eastern bloc. However, I understand it is difficult to erase decades of dictatorship and a total neglect of consumer needs. My country has been there, too. I was shocked when I read this! I found this sentence deeply insulting and disturbing. I'm from a country that was in so called Eastern block too, and I don't think that Dreamy_Queens opinion has anything to do with mentality. You are accusing Dreamy_Queens husband that he neglects consumer's needs, and that he has Eastern block mentality? If I understood, and I hope I'm not making this conversation too shallow (!?!) Dreamy_Queen wanted to say that costumers are not always right, but sometimes should let the expert estimate the situation. Most of us are not professional musicians, and we can argue about music on a listeners level. There's no need to be so pushy about discussions, cause there's not much to be discussed at the moment. And you said Basically, Mika's work inspired us back then and fans' feedback inspired Mika, too. There was interaction between him and fans, and he did use a lot of ideas that came from 'us' fans. As a new fan I would like to know examples for this, if it's not a bother for you to put some links. And to keep up with "shallowness" :wub2::wub2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreamy_Queen Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 I was shocked when I read this! I found this sentence deeply insulting and disturbing. I'm from a country that was in so called Eastern block too, and I don't think that Dreamy_Queens opinion has anything to do with mentality. You are accusing Dreamy_Queens husband that he neglects consumer's needs, and that he has Eastern block mentality? If I understood, and I hope I'm not making this conversation too shallow (!?!) Dreamy_Queen wanted to say that costumers are not always right, but sometimes should let the expert estimate the situation. Most of us are not professional musicians, and we can argue about music on a listeners level. There's no need to be so pushy about discussions, cause there's not much to be discussed at the moment. And you said As a new fan I would like to know examples for this, if it's not a bother for you to put some links. And to keep up with "shallowness" :wub2::wub2: Yes, you got me totally right! You've found the exact words I think I'd better go to some shallow thread too, this will be much healthier I don't know if there is any common sense in going on. Anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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