Popular - with Ariana Grande

[Marilyn Mastin]

true, but they only invest in promotion if he's successful. promo costs money and they have their eyes on the revenue. he does have this chance in the US now, since his tour and album both were rather successful - so i don't care AT ALL for what reason this song becomes a hit, as long as it does. even if every random music listener thinks it's ariana's song, it will still help mika to get recognition by his record company, and therefor maybe more promotion for his next single, as he's the one who wrote the song, and he's the one on the cover.

ariana seems to have a worldwide fanbase because she's in this teen tv series. i never watched it so i didn't know her before her collaboration with mika, but i even found some info on german websites about her. for example on a german website that's similar to yahoo questions 2 people posted a question about the song, even though in germany it was neither released nor was there any news about it. probably it was ariana fans who read it on her twitter or on a fanpage about her. usually mika does get mentioned if someone mentions the song (and if not, we can help, like marilyn said ), even if they say it's ariana featuring mika - in any case, i'm happy about every ariana grande fan who buys mika's song, or spreads the word on the internet so more people get to know about it.

I think its good that he's going to America on the back of this song. I really hope it helps him do really well over there.

I had not heard of AG either until now. I haven't watched teen TV since my son grew up, but it seems like she's in for a great career, and she's worked with Mika, so that will help him too.

[suzie]

I can't quote now so, some thoughts on what I read in the last pages.

I am not surprised at all by the fans of this girl not mentioning the composer of the song at all. I have never seen fans of Katy Perry, Adam Lambert, Kelly Clarkson or Pink acknowledging the awesome work of Dr Luke, for example. Authorship on pop music is mixed, merged and difficult to define. Besides, there is no way Mika will ever get recognised as the composer this song simply because he did not write it.

On the sell-out note, I don't think that this case can be compared to Mika's engagement to directly target certain audiences - whether that be the French, the Italian or the US audience. Selling out means that one sacrifices their artistic integrity (i.e. making compromises they would have never done if relying on their own taste alone), and I think the French songs are all very much Mika, whether one likes them or not. Concerning this record, as I understand it is not his own product (can someone check production credits, please) so it can't be a case of him 'selling out' , just doing a favour his record company must have asked him to do. As long as he keeps his distance from it, like he seems to be doing, most of his fans will never even hear about it, so no further disappointment, only some interest in him coming from some young US fans. A win-win situation for both singers at a point where Mika has nothing to lose anymore.

Edited January 5, 2013 by suzie

[Christine]

Selling out means that one sacrifices their artistic integrity (i.e. making compromises they would have never done if relying on their own taste alone), and I think the French songs are all very much Mika, whether one likes them or not.

 

The thing is Mika implies at every opportunity that not only do his collaborations not require any compromise but that many other pop artists' do. I think most people would agree that someone like Justin Bieber doesn't have much credibility as a maker of music but his songs are all very much JB and all reflective of his tastes. I mean he is working directly with the people who inspired him to get into music like Usher. So one has artistic integrity and one does not? I don't see the distinction and yet everyone tries to claim that there is one.

 

I think the public decides what is art and what is selling out based on what they perceive is the quality of the end result. But the motivation is the same (appealing to an audience) and the method is the same (receiving external input).

[RAK1]

I can't quote now so, some thoughts on what I read in the last pages.

I am not surprised at all by the fans of this girl not mentioning the composer of the song at all. I have never seen fans of Katy Perry, Adam Lambert, Kelly Clarkson or Pink acknowledging the awesome work of Dr Luke, for example. Authorship on pop music is mixed, merged and difficult to define. Besides, there is no way Mika will ever get recognised as the composer this song simply because he did not write it.

On the sell-out note, I don't think that this case can be compared to Mika's engagement to directly target certain audiences - whether that be the French, the Italian or the US audience. Selling out means that one sacrifices their artistic integrity (i.e. making compromises they would have never done if relying on their own taste alone), and I think the French songs are all very much Mika, whether one likes them or not. Concerning this record, as I understand it is not his own product (can someone check production credits, please) so it can't be a case of him 'selling out' , just doing a favour his record company must have asked him to do. As long as he keeps his distance from it, like he seems to be doing, most of his fans will never even hear about it, so no further disappointment, only some interest in him coming from some young US fans. A win-win situation for both singers at a point where Mika has nothing to lose anymore.

 

The thing is, he hasn't totally kept his distance from it.

He tweeted Ariana about it, posted the link for it and even raved about the artwork for the cover.

A darn sight more than he did for the "release" of Origin Of Love here in the UK, where he may have gone on a couple of radio shows to mention it, but he didn't seem that enthusiastic about it, not as much as he was on Twitter about this song.

[Christine]

The thing is, he hasn't totally kept his distance from it.

He tweeted Ariana about it, posted the link for it and even raved about the artwork for the cover.

A darn sight more than he did for the "release" of Origin Of Love here in the UK, where he may have gone on a couple of radio shows to mention it, but he didn't seem that enthusiastic about it, not as much as he was on Twitter about this song.

 

I think Karin is right and Mika will distance himself from this song if it goes nowhere and if it's a success he'll have to embrace it. I think Mika had mixed feelings about the Madonna song but one thing is for sure he was very proud to say that one of his songs ended up on her album and he talked about it all the time.

 

I guess we'll see what happens if and when he comes to the US this year.

[basicamenteyo]

The thing is, he hasn't totally kept his distance from it.

He tweeted Ariana about it, posted the link for it and even raved about the artwork for the cover.

A darn sight more than he did for the "release" of Origin Of Love here in the UK, where he may have gone on a couple of radio shows to mention it, but he didn't seem that enthusiastic about it, not as much as he was on Twitter about this song.

 

Rose, I keep on thinking it´s not on Mika´s hands to go to Radio shows... If they don´t invite him, he can´t go... It´s normal he tries to avoid anything in the UK if he sees there´s no response. He releases the album and suddenly in The Netherlands, France, Italy and even Spain there are amazing shows that want him. That doesn´t happen in the UK and he may have thought that it´s already lost

 

He looked quite sober when he said "when a song doesn´t catch the loop, there´s nothing to do". Maybe he has this kind of... amazing way of understanding things and he already understands that UK doesn´t love his music. (Though for what I´ve read it´s not that they dislike his music, it´s more as if they dislike Mika himself, which IMO is stupid and unfair...).

 

He goes to France cause he is asked to go there. Truth is that he´s been doing different things to appeal to different markets like french songs for France, South American video of OOL for South America and now this Popular feat with Ariana for US.

 

To me he (or more likely his team) is totally lost and doesn´t know what to do. I know it´s not like that, I know he is very professional and I think his Team is as well, but I don´t understand why he needs to appeal to so much different markets with different things instead of focus on what he already has (the album itself) and promote it in a single way for all. He hasn´t done anything for the UK market but maybe it´s not his fault but the label´s...

[Christine]

I don´t understand why he needs to appeal to so much different markets with different things instead of focus on what he already has (the album itself) and promote it in a single way for all.

 

I agree with that. I think to break into the US requires such a single mindedness and that's why it's difficult for any Brit, not just Mika. You really have to pour everything you have into it and can't be faffing around with France or anywhere really. I think the lucky few who hit are like Adele whose music is already virtually 100% American influenced to start with. Others like Calvin Harris do it with high profile American collaborations (Rihanna). Also Calvin Harris is here ALL the time. He comes to Toronto several times a year and has been doing so since 2007. Same with many cities in the US.

 

I guess they recognized that different songs appealed to different markets with LICM and think that's the key to selling TOOL all over the world.

[basicamenteyo]

I agree with that. I think to break into the US requires such a single mindedness and that's why it's difficult for any Brit, not just Mika. You really have to pour everything you have into it and can't be faffing around with France or anywhere really. I think the lucky few who hit are like Adele whose music is already virtually 100% American influenced to start with. Others like Calvin Harris do it with high profile American collaborations (Rihanna). Also Calvin Harris is here ALL the time. He comes to Toronto several times a year and has been doing so since 2007. Same with many cities in the US.

 

I guess they recognized that different songs appealed to different markets with LICM and think that's the key to selling TOOL all over the world.

 

IMO it needs too much effort and the pay-back is not worth it. But that´s just my opinion.

 

Mika has a couple or three amazing songs in that album. Stardust, Overrated and OOL are like diamonds. He could have worked on them, and with a very good video clip of each, he might have reached all those markets instead of needing to do different things which are not specially amazing and that finally only appeal to a very little part of the world each.

 

I don´t know.. he is doing what we call here "dar palos de ciego" whose literal translation is "hitting things as a blind".

[Christine]

IMO it needs too much effort and the pay-back is not worth it. But that´s just my opinion.

 

I guess that is open to debate but I think there is no point in doing it half-assed. You could get lucky but chances are it's not going to come to much and it's probably better to expend that effort elsewhere.

[basicamenteyo]

I guess that is open to debate but I think there is no point in doing it half-assed. You could get lucky but chances are it's not going to come to much and it's probably better to expend that effort elsewhere.

 

Yes. And there´s more. If he got a super success with EMD, or Popular, he could only use them in the market he appealed with them. That´s why he barely sings EMD out of France, and when he does he gets a bit or critics... or as he did in Spain, he almost asked for permission to sing it . I know he would have sung it even if the response of the crowd had been negative, cause it was in the playlist and he was willing to sing it, but still, it´s a success that he only can take advantage of in the appealed country, which means, more effort for him (who needs to rehearse different things for different countries) and a bittersweet feeling for fans from other countries, who might feel out of the loop.

 

I don´t know. Let´s see how things turn out.

[Christine]

Yes. And there´s more. If he got a super success with EMD, or Popular, he could only use them in the market he appealed with them.

 

That's why if you are going to collaborate to appeal to Americans you have to do it with the likes of Rihanna.

[basicamenteyo]

That's why if you are going to collaborate to appeal to Americans you have to do it with the likes of Rihanna.

 

Who knows? Maybe Rihanna was asked and she refused

[shoogi]

Well her video has more views than any of Mika's so...

 

[YOUTUBE]CC1cWrxk_mI[/YOUTUBE]

 

Guess I was way off the mark when I said Mika wasn't willing to do what it takes as far as the US is concerned.

 

OMFG i know how she is (without this video i would never look for her on google )

 

she is from that TV show.... victorious

wow i couldn't even recognize her vice

[suzie]

The thing is Mika implies at every opportunity that not only do his collaborations not require any compromise but that many other pop artists' do. I think most people would agree that someone like Justin Bieber doesn't have much credibility as a maker of music but his songs are all very much JB and all reflective of his tastes. I mean he is working directly with the people who inspired him to get into music like Usher. So one has artistic integrity and one does not? I don't see the distinction and yet everyone tries to claim that there is one.

 

I think the public decides what is art and what is selling out based on what they perceive is the quality of the end result. But the motivation is the same (appealing to an audience) and the method is the same (receiving external input).

Well, I have seen posts here denying that Mika is motivated by appealing to an audience since he is only motivated by expressing himself with his ' art' ...

I can clearly see a difference between Bieber and Mika in terms of artistic integrity. It is my view, of course, but I can't hear Bieber being 'present' in his songs (the ones I saw on tv,anyway), since they all sound plain, full of cliches and with no personality at all - totally commodified. In Mika's case the lyrics tend to reveal personal thoughts, the melody often has some characteristic Mika style elements, like octave jumps, and the arrangements are usually more complex than plain chart music. In other words, Mika's musical signature is in his songs. Or at least in most of them. So Bieber is a sellout Mika is not. IMO, of course

I only questioned Mika's motivations with certain simple lyrics and radio-friendly arrangements (that never worked though) twice: with the lead singles of his last two albums. They sounded too artificial and non-Mika to me, but looking back he may have simply tried too hard and failed as with him trying to comply with the standard never works. He should have realised it by now.

I don´t understand why he needs to appeal to so much different markets with different things instead of focus on what he already has (the album itself) and promote it in a single way for all.

I don't understand it, either. One common strategy worked for the first album because it was so good it stood out from the rest everywhere and his image was less confusing, more the 'boy next door' image rather than the Louboutin wearing exclusive pop star type.

Edited January 5, 2013 by suzie

[Christine]

It is my view, of course, but I can't hear Bieber being 'present' in his songs (the ones I saw on tv,anyway), since they all sound plain, full of cliches and with no personality at all - totally commodified. In Mika's case the lyrics tend to reveal personal thoughts, the melody often has some characteristic Mika style elements, like octave jumps, and the arrangements are usually more complex than plain chart music.

 

This just sounds to me like a quality judgement and nothing to do with integrity. There are a lot of people out there who like plain music which is why it's dominating the charts in the first place. Who's to say that this is not characteristic of the artists themselves? Just because someone isn't a musical genius doesn't mean that they have no vision for their career and are willing to compromise their own tastes to sell a product.

[suzie]

This just sounds to me like a quality judgement and nothing to do with integrity. There are a lot of people out there who like plain music which is why it's dominating the charts in the first place. Who's to say that this is not characteristic of the artists themselves? Just because someone isn't a musical genius doesn't mean that they have no vision for their career and are willing to compromise their own tastes to sell a product.

 

If one's taste starts and ends with the lyrics and music to 'Baby' (Bieber) I am not judging them but the end product does reveal a particular mindset formed by different factors I mentioned earlier, among them age, culture and gender. I'd find it rather surprising if that matched Justin's own taste , so I supposed he has songs written for him with limited input coming from him. I don't necessarily mean he is a sellout vs himself but a sellout artist by definition, meaning something like 'fake' / not using his songs to express himself. Him possibly having his own vision about where his career is heading to does not make him an artist, even though one may argue even the design of a hamburger box is art as any judgement on art is subjective.

I don't think that evaluating art and especially music is as subjective as some may claim. Certainly not within the same or similar cultural context. Western music has clearly defined structural concepts that one may not be able to explain but most would hear it. How one judges music depends on those gender-age-education-culture...etc factors and that's where the question of the target audience gets into the picture. I am pretty certain that there isn't much overlap between even potential fans of Ariana/Bieber and Mika , for example , but Mika's record company does not seem to understand that (not talking only about this duet, just in general, about the way he has been positioned in the last 4-5 years). I wonder if Mika can see the difference between his 2007 audience vs who he has now - not talking about the figures only. A lack of direction seems to me to be one if his biggest problems.

Edited January 6, 2013 by suzie

[Christine]

I don't necessarily mean he is a sellout vs himself but a sellout artist by definition, meaning something like 'fake' / not using his songs to express himself.

 

But this just brings us back around to the French songs and how I think this is no more or less a case of selling out than a collaboration aimed to appeal to Americans. Why do you need a French lyricist if you are writing songs in order to express yourself? It sounds like someone else's expression to me. How can toning down the word "bitch" be a sell out but asking someone to rewrite your song in their own words be a form of artistic expression?

 

Even if every song has Mika's distinctive musical signature on it that doesn't mean that it's necessarily an artistic expression. It could simply be his chosen songwriting techniques.

 

I don't know what's going on in Mika's head or how or why he writes his songs. But I don't understand why any time he has anything to do with big name Americans (Madonna, Pharrell, Ariana Grande) the assumption is that he's making compromises but every other collaboration he enters into with artistic purity. I don't see any distinction and it just sounds like a judgement on American music.

[Christine]

I am pretty certain that there isn't much overlap between even potential fans of Ariana/Bieber and Mika , for example , but Mika's record company does not seem to understand that (not talking only about this duet, just in general, about the way he has been positioned in the last 4-5 years).

 

I don't think there is much overlap and I don't think it's desirable in any case.

[Marilyn Mastin]

But this just brings us back around to the French songs and how I think this is no more or less a case of selling out than a collaboration aimed to appeal to Americans. Why do you need a French lyricist if you are writing songs in order to express yourself? It sounds like someone else's expression to me. How can toning down the word "bitch" be a sell out but asking someone to rewrite your song in their own words be a form of artistic expression?

 

Even if every song has Mika's distinctive musical signature on it that doesn't mean that it's necessarily an artistic expression. It could simply be his chosen songwriting techniques.

 

I don't know what's going on in Mika's head or how or why he writes his songs. But I don't understand why any time he has anything to do with big name Americans (Madonna, Pharrell, Ariana Grande) the assumption is that he's making compromises but every other collaboration he enters into with artistic purity. I don't see any distinction and it just sounds like a judgement on American music.

I think its more that some fans don't want Mika to mix with any mainstream pop people. A while age, when he was being pictured with Lady Gaga, some thought there was a colab on the cards, and most didn't want that. I think it would have been great if it had happened.

The talk of Mika "selling out" is more about him linking up with "ordinary popstars", and while I agree that Mika is not an ordinary popstar, his exclusivity is not going to keep him selling albums and singles.

He needs to get a better team around him. Some people with his best interests at heart.

I had a bit of hope yesterday however, because the Barnum Musical Thread had been bumped and I actually thought Mika was going to write the score. This would have been absolutely the best thing for him, since his songs are like musical songs anyway. This is why Mika's version of Popular fits so well with the sample from Wicked. Because, Mika's songs are so right for musicals. This project would have elevated Mika to the rank of Movie Score Composer and he wouldn't need any gimmicks or colabs to get him the fame and respect he deserves.

I'm really sad he's not doing it. He's deffinately his own worst enemy sometimes.

[suzie]

I don't understand why any time he has anything to do with big name Americans (Madonna, Pharrell, Ariana Grande) the assumption is that he's making compromises but every other collaboration he enters into with artistic purity. I don't see any distinction and it just sounds like a judgement on American music.

 

I am glad you brought this up again because to me disliking this version doesn't have anything to do with 'American' music. I mean, most genres in popular music cone from America, so that, in itself is a contradiction. Also, nowadays mainstream pop music is pretty much global with influences from many countries and sub-genres that change rapidly. In an earlier post I mentioned some American pop musicians sharing the same songwriting teams who actually revive early 90's Europop / Swedish pop with them, with the audience not even noticing. There are now international teams working with global artists like Madonna, for example, and the music is pretty much the mix of many influences, in most cases trying to follow latest trends.

[suzie]

I think its more that some fans don't want Mika to mix with any mainstream pop people. A while age, when he was being pictured with Lady Gaga, some thought there was a colab on the cards, and most didn't want that. I think it would have been great if it had happened.

The talk of Mika "selling out" is more about him linking up with "ordinary popstars", and while I agree that Mika is not an ordinary popstar, his exclusivity is not going to keep him selling albums ...

 

i think Mika's music is mainstream pop but not particularly current, so it is not selling as much as some 'trendy' music. LICM was a trend setter in a way but time passed him by. Funnily enough, back then he was collaborating with more 'alternative pop 'artists like Imogen Heap and Owen Pallett so if he now goes back to simple teen chart pop it will look like an attempt to sell out.

Concerning his possible collab with Lady Gaga back then I would have personally liked it as I loved her first album and I considered her a great, clever pop artist from the beginning who is fully in charge of her act. There is no way to compare her to Ariana in that aspect, in my opinion. Even though both of them may be really sweet people, it takes more than that for a record to appeal to a particular group of people.

[suzie]

But this just brings us back around to the French songs and how I think this is no more or less a case of selling out than a collaboration aimed to appeal to Americans. Why do you need a French lyricist if you are writing songs in order to express yourself? It sounds like someone else's expression to me. How can toning down the word "bitch" be a sell out but asking someone to rewrite your song in their own words be a form of artistic expression?.

When I first heard this song I didn't even notice change in the lyrics, I was so shocked by the sound. It was almost like hearing it from the Gummybears.

You have a good point about the French lyricist we never actually discussed here, but I think Mika should need a lyricist in general. What I noticed a long time ago is that any song that has Jodi Marr as a co-writer tends to have really good lyrics, whilst some lines in certain other songs are really not well-chosen. I am not listing any examples now though.

Mika was totally lost and out of inspiration in early 2011, that was really apparent that January, I think, and so my interpretation of what happened was that since he had no other 'collaborating patrners' in line, he booked a session with a French lyricist he knew well. So no surprise there, except that he could have run back to mama Jodi but she may have been booked with other artists already. Also, probably the only activity he had booked back then was this Compiegne gig, so this French focus might have been automatic, and especially after all these funny awards that he had recieved.

Concerning the songs themselves, none but the 'moon song' are French. The rest may follow the French lyrics in terms of the rhythm in the verses but EMD is europop, and so was Karen, except that it was recorded in Harry Nilsson style, and the chords to 'Love in bad times' totally sound like some 60's Sinatra song to me

Anyway, I was / am also disappointed by the French focus but the end result is still songs I can and in some cases I love to listen to.

[Christine]

I think its more that some fans don't want Mika to mix with any mainstream pop people.

 

Yes especially if it's someone they don't like.

 

I agree with you about Gaga. I think Gaga could use Mika's help too because her songwriting has turned to crap. I was listening to Just Dance the other day and I loved that song so much but every time I hear one of her latest songs, without fail, it takes me 10 seconds to work out that it's not some crappy old Madonna song. It doesn't matter how many times I've heard them, it happens every time.

 

Anyway, I was / am also disappointed by the French focus but the end result is still songs I can and in some cases I love to listen to.

 

Right that is my point. This is a matter of quality and not artistic integrity. I bought Un Soleil Mal Luné and EMD and I'm not going to buy this version of Popular because I don't like it. So I totally agree with you there. Some collaborations produce better work than others.

 

But don't you think all these collaborations whether it's Jodi Marr or Pharrell, are an attempt to improve the song for the purposes of making something people will want to listen to and not strictly a form of artistic expression? Isn't collaborative songwriting more of a craft (not totally unlike what Mika describes went on in the Brill Building) than art?

[silver]

Does anyone know how well this version is actually selling?

[suzie]

I am posting twice now as I can't quote properly

Right that is my point. This is a matter of quality and not artistic integrity. I bought Un Soleil Mal Luné and EMD and I'm not going to buy this version of Popular because I don't like it. So I totally agree with you there. Some collaborations produce better work than others.

?

 

To me, Mika is not present in this record and I don't even consider it a proper collaboration, just a song produced by others and him singing some lines on top. That' s my point.

If I compare it to Queen (well, Brian and Roger only) agreeing to re-record We Will Rock You with 5ive ( that was some boyband in the UK in the 00's or the 90s) I conclude that WWRY was more horrendous and a real sell-out as they even did a video to it. It must have been a nice boost in the sales of their back catalogue but most like not near as much as Mika, Katy Perry, Lady Gaga or Adam Lambert meant fir them in terms of introducing Queen's music to new generations.