suzie Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 But don't you think all these collaborations whether it's Jodi Marr or Pharrell, are an attempt to improve the song for the purposes of making something people will want to listen to and not strictly a form of artistic expression? Isn't collaborative songwriting more of a craft (not totally unlike what Mika describes went on in the Brill Building) than art? That is exactly how I view Mika' songwriting since the beginning: he is more of a songwriting craftsman rather than a self-expressing composer (the points gig totally confirmed this) but it does not mean that what he does can't be considered 'honest' / true to his own taste (vs karaoke stars who have limited input in the creative process. I also think that Mika's way of writing is partly the result of his knowledge gap in music theory and playing instruments (he needs someone like Greg to transcribe his thoughts) and partly from the fact that in most cases he recycles. At least he does it well though and with a great ear to catchy melodies. That's also what I used to think of Gaga except that she is a much better piano player. That is why I believe he needs to understand what works for him and what does not and where he went wrong in certain cases. A real songwriting craftsman takes time to figure out how to perfect his skills whilst an 'artist' type of composer may not be interested in how well their songs go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Does anyone know how well this version is actually selling? It's not charting on US iTunes and that's the only place it's available so I'd say it's not selling at all. Just to put it in perspective #114 on the pop charts is Bleeding Love by Leona Lewis, released 5 years ago and #117 is Crazy in Love from 2003. To me, Mika is not present in this record and I don't even consider it a proper collaboration, just a song produced by others and him singing some lines on top. That' s my point. That's how I feel about Kids. It just sounds like a cover to me. Even the acoustic version doesn't sound like Mika's music IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 That is exactly how I view Mika' songwriting since the beginning: he is more of a songwriting craftsman rather than a self-expressing composer (the points gig totally confirmed this) but it does not mean that what he does can't be considered 'honest' / true to his own taste (vs karaoke stars who have limited input in the creative process. I also think that Mika's way of writing is partly the result of his knowledge gap in music theory and playing instruments (he needs someone like Greg to transcribe his thoughts) and partly from the fact that in most cases he recycles. At least he does it well though and with a great ear to catchy melodies. That's also what I used to think of Gaga except that she is a much better piano player. That is why I believe he needs to understand what works for him and what does not and where he went wrong in certain cases. A real songwriting craftsman takes time to figure out how to perfect his skills whilst an 'artist' type of composer may not be interested in how well their songs go down. I agree with all of that. What I don't agree with is fans questioning the artistic integrity of a collaboration only because they don't like the end result. Even saying it's not reflective of Mika's tastes or skills is a judgement IMO and not necessarily a fact - he is influenced by everyone from Harry Nilsson to Beck and listens to everything from Kanye to Rihanna so who knows how that may manifest itself in his songs along the way. I never imagined he'd make an electronic record but that's what he's done and I don't think he was motivated by commercial reasons or pressured into it against his better judgement. Was hooking up with Pharrell a sell out because Celebrate is not as good as it might have been if Mika was left to his own devices? What about Tah Dah? It's got Mika written all over it but Pharrell's name is still attached. We don't really know what compromises were made and why during the writing and production phases or what Mika's honest opinions are about the end result of any of his collaborations. Just because some fans don't like it doesn't mean he doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzie Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 (edited) Was hooking up with Pharrell a sell out because Celebrate is not as good as it might have been if Mika was left to his own devices? What about Tah Dah? It's got Mika written all over it but Pharrell's name is still attached. We don't really know what compromises were made and why during the writing and production phases or what Mika's honest opinions are about the end result of any of his collaborations. Just because some fans don't like it doesn't mean he doesn't. Well, I don't know under what circumstances Celebrate turned out the way it did. He did mention Pharrell adding the line 'it is gonna be OK', and called it 'classy'. In my 'value judgement', it is not, in fact, the opposite. At the same time, in a recent interview he said that he re-mixed Pharrell's version with Nick Littlemore and came up with something different. Regardless of who spoilt the song (if it ever sounded good at all with that rap insert, anyway) , I personally classify it as non-Mika style and an awkward attempt to make it sound 'urban'. In theory it may have been his intention to have such song on the album, of course. However, whether I am wrong or right about the reason behind it, it is still how it makes me feel and it seems a large number of people felt in a similar way. It does not make it a bad song, just not fitting Mika and the presence or lack of authenticity is always based on some kind of value judgement, imo. Edited January 6, 2013 by suzie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 It does not make it a bad song, just not fitting Mika and the presence or lack of authenticity is always based on some kind of value judgement, imo. Of course but I feel like everything is held up against Grace Kelly and other songs of that era as if they are unimpeachable examples of Mika's authenticity. And if a song strays from that in any undesirable way it is evidence of Mika making compromises. We don't know what is authentic to him. We are just extrapolating from a few songs he wrote when he was 21 years old. Songs that were co written and produced by others whose impact on the end result we can't measure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokesignal Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Apart from the Mika-ish or not discussion, I'm wondering about something. People have been saying he didn't do anything for this song and wasn't in the studio with her. This last bit may be true, but since the song is faster and he sings the rap parts, it is different recording. So either it is one of the originals that didn't make the cut for the album or it was made especially for this single. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzie Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 (edited) @Christine I may not know what is authetic to him but I do know what sounds authentic to me and it is based on the subjective impressions I get from a performance. For example, I doubt a 14year old could ever perform Adele's Someone Like You on a way that touches me since she is unlikely to have the life experience to sing it that way I can imagine Mika writing songs in several genres. His love of electronic music was apparent even back in the early days or especially back then, so I was not surprised by this album in that aspect. In fact, I consider it a mistake not to have promoted it with some electro -dance tracks like Stardust or Overrated. I can also imagine Mika writing jazzy stuff but what I'd really like him to do is rock, which is highly unlikely. To begin with, he is not really into it and he'd need a band and not session musicians. If it did happen though, he could sound totally awesome live. @smokesignal yes, it was noted that there are differences in the lyrics. I don't want to guess how the recording happened. Perhaps Ariana will share details later on. Edit: the answer is below. So Mika is likely to have been asked when the album had such success in the first week of its release in the US. Edited January 6, 2013 by suzie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cathouzouf Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Apart from the Mika-ish or not discussion, I'm wondering about something. People have been saying he didn't do anything for this song and wasn't in the studio with her. This last bit may be true, but since the song is faster and he sings the rap parts, it is different recording. So either it is one of the originals that didn't make the cut for the album or it was made especially for this single. Any thoughts? My guess is it must have been recorded while he was in LA in October, since he mentionned Ariana to some choir members Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabine64 Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 My guess is it must have been recorded while he was in LA in October, since he mentionned Ariana to some choir members he tweeted about beeing in the studio with Greg Wells again before he went back to Europe in October Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 I can also imagine Mika writing jazzy stuff but what I'd really like him to do is rock, which is highly unlikely. To begin with, he is not really into it and he'd need a band and not session musicians. If it did happen though, he could sound totally awesome live. Oh dear I think that would be hopelessly awkward and sound terribly dated. I did like Ring Ring live though so maybe I'd be pleasantly surprised. he tweeted about beeing in the studio with Greg Wells again before he went back to Europe in October I need to go to the bad fan corner again because I don't remember that. So it sounds like Mika and Greg arranged and produced it. Business as usual. There are just some unfortunate Minnie Mouse vocals on it instead of Priscilla's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krysady Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I can also imagine Mika writing jazzy stuff but what I'd really like him to do is rock, which is highly unlikely. To begin with, he is not really into it and he'd need a band and not session musicians. If it did happen though, he could sound totally awesome live. Oh,yes! This would be great,indeed,and I always thought he'll do that.I think he's born for rock,just that he doesn't know it yet .......I'm still hoping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAK1 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Oh,yes! This would be great,indeed,and I always thought he'll do that.I think he's born for rock,just that he:blush-anim-cl: doesn't know it yet .......I'm still hoping I was watching a documentary about Jeff Lynn from ELO over Christmas, and wondered what it would be like if Jeff produced an album with Mika, on the scale he did back in the days of ELO. Just wishful thinking on my part I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiibet Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 he tweeted about beeing in the studio with Greg Wells again before he went back to Europe in October Oh, yes he did! And I remember thinking what he is doing but totally forgot it later (and for some reason didn't think of Greg Wells in this connection at all). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cat_loves_mika Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 he tweeted about beeing in the studio with Greg Wells again before he went back to Europe in October Oh, yes he did! And I remember thinking what he is doing but totally forgot it later (and for some reason didn't think of Greg Wells in this connection at all). He probably wasn't even there when she recorded the vocals. I bet they haven't even met and someone put it her vocals and remixed it horribly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katydid1994 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Oh good, other people don't like it, I was afraid it was just me. I don't understand taking a song that found popularity and buzz on it's own and completely changing it to make a single. And if I did like this as a single and bought the album because of it, I'd be irritated to find it so different on the album. I think what immediately bothers me about the new one is that they are so clearly different in age. Instead of two adults boasting success and lamenting the past, you've got an adult trying to fit in with the kids, it comes across non-genuine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokesignal Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 My guess is it must have been recorded while he was in LA in October, since he mentionned Ariana to some choir members he tweeted about beeing in the studio with Greg Wells again before he went back to Europe in October Right. I was wondering when he had had the time to record it, since recording usually seems to take him ages and he had a pretty packed schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokesignal Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Oh good, other people don't like it, I was afraid it was just me. I don't understand taking a song that found popularity and buzz on it's own and completely changing it to make a single. And if I did like this as a single and bought the album because of it, I'd be irritated to find it so different on the album. I think what immediately bothers me about the new one is that they are so clearly different in age. Instead of two adults boasting success and lamenting the past, you've got an adult trying to fit in with the kids, it comes across non-genuine. I can follow the descriptn bubblegum pop I read in here earlier, but on this point I have to disagree. In addition to the fact that she is quite successful (most likely not bullied, but let's say that she might have been), this is a feeling you can get at any point in your life if you have pulled yourself together after having been bullied and realise you're actually doing quite well. It's not a pretty feeling or one to be proud of, but I do recognise it from when some of my bullies had to do a school year again because their grades were too bad. So much for nagging me for having good grades, that kind of feeling. In fact I'd say it's a bit sad if he still really feels that way. I've mostly grown over it, at least tried to, because I think it's small and childish, and I'm about Mika's age. In that sense I think it fits Ariana's age better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basicamenteyo Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Well, I have seen posts here denying that Mika is motivated by appealing to an audience since he is only motivated by expressing himself with his ' art' ...I can clearly see a difference between Bieber and Mika in terms of artistic integrity. It is my view, of course, but I can't hear Bieber being 'present' in his songs (the ones I saw on tv,anyway), since they all sound plain, full of cliches and with no personality at all - totally commodified. In Mika's case the lyrics tend to reveal personal thoughts, the melody often has some characteristic Mika style elements, like octave jumps, and the arrangements are usually more complex than plain chart music. In other words, Mika's musical signature is in his songs. Or at least in most of them. So Bieber is a sellout Mika is not. IMO, of course I only questioned Mika's motivations with certain simple lyrics and radio-friendly arrangements (that never worked though) twice: with the lead singles of his last two albums. They sounded too artificial and non-Mika to me, but looking back he may have simply tried too hard and failed as with him trying to comply with the standard never works. He should have realised it by now. I don't understand it, either. One common strategy worked for the first album because it was so good it stood out from the rest everywhere and his image was less confusing, more the 'boy next door' image rather than the Louboutin wearing exclusive pop star type. Totally agree here. He is Mika, and any attempt to look "standarized" (or however it is written) is a fail cause his music "used" to be too particular. I´m not sure now what happened here. I do like this album and I think there are a couple of really good songs. I still think that OOL is priceless and Stardust should have been the first single. Agreeing with someone who posted before (not sure who, sorry) Tah Dah is a very special song that IMO should have been in the main disc instead of being a bonus (WTF?). Well, I don't know under what circumstances Celebrate turned out the way it did. He did mention Pharrell adding the line 'it is gonna be OK', and called it 'classy'. In my 'value judgement', it is not, in fact, the opposite. At the same time, in a recent interview he said that he re-mixed Pharrell's version with Nick Littlemore and came up with something different. Regardless of who spoilt the song (if it ever sounded good at all with that rap insert, anyway) , I personally classify it as non-Mika style and an awkward attempt to make it sound 'urban'. In theory it may have been his intention to have such song on the album, of course. However, whether I am wrong or right about the reason behind it, it is still how it makes me feel and it seems a large number of people felt in a similar way. It does not make it a bad song, just not fitting Mika and the presence or lack of authenticity is always based on some kind of value judgement, imo. Collaborations are collaborations and I will never understand them. If you are a songwriter, GOSH, MAN, WRITE YOUR OWN SONGS AND DON´T LET ANYONE MESS WITH YOUR IDEAS. (rant over). If you really need (or at least that´s what your label says) to do some collaborations in order to make your album better promoted, at least you should choose better who you collaborate with. I swear I never heard of Pharrel before and never heard of him after knowing he collaborated with Mika... And yes, there are a lot of songs in this album that don´t sound like Mika at all. And for me, the song that sounds more Mikaish than any other is Drunk. That song, since the first time I heard it, reminded me of the vids of Mika playing festivals in 2007. Don´t ask me why, but that´s what I feel when I listen to it. I don´t think Popular is Mikaish at all and I think it would have been fine as a bonustrack, but never as a song in A side, let alone a single. (as long as we still understand the word "single" as a "sample" of what the album is, of course). Apart from the Mika-ish or not discussion, I'm wondering about something. People have been saying he didn't do anything for this song and wasn't in the studio with her. This last bit may be true, but since the song is faster and he sings the rap parts, it is different recording. So either it is one of the originals that didn't make the cut for the album or it was made especially for this single. Any thoughts? I really think that version was recorded before, not sure if it was before the final version entered the album or after, but since Mika started singing it, what he does live, sounds much more as this new version than the Priscilla´s song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn Mastin Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 (edited) I can follow the descriptn bubblegum pop I read in here earlier, but on this point I have to disagree. In addition to the fact that she is quite successful (most likely not bullied, but let's say that she might have been), this is a feeling you can get at any point in your life if you have pulled yourself together after having been bullied and realise you're actually doing quite well. It's not a pretty feeling or one to be proud of, but I do recognise it from when some of my bullies had to do a school year again because their grades were too bad. So much for nagging me for having good grades, that kind of feeling. In fact I'd say it's a bit sad if he still really feels that way. I've mostly grown over it, at least tried to, because I think it's small and childish, and I'm about Mika's age. In that sense I think it fits Ariana's age better. I don't agree with you. Bullying is not something that's come about in the last 20 years or so. I have vivid memories of being bullied. Why was I bullied? One thing was I used to go completely blank. No one could get through to me when that happened, so the kids called me "Dozy Marilyn Bradshaw", and the teachers couldn't have cared less, even though they knew about it. I also couldn't run about like other kids. I was exhausted through all the pills I took and had some mobility issues even as a kid. I say this not to get sympathy, because its all in the past now. But I'm saying it to emphasise that if you've been bullied, it doesn't matter how many years have passed, it's always still there and the memories are still vivid. So Mika and Ariana might be, almost, from different generations, but not fitting in, being unpopular and being dunked in the toilet (or other bullying tactics) is something even older people can identify with. Knowing that we came out the other side, had good lives and even became popular in the end, is something many individuals can relate to. So I see no problem with them both singing the song. I think it's great. Edited January 7, 2013 by Marilyn Mastin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzie Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 (edited) Oh dear I think that would be hopelessly awkward and sound terribly dated. I did like Ring Ring live though so maybe I'd be pleasantly surprised. You mean jazz or rock? Well, I guess you mean the latter. I don't mean Bon Jovi type of mainstream rock, btw. I mean 70s type of progressive rock (well, perhaps modernized a bit) where Mika could use his falsetto. In fact, I was partly hoping for that with this album after he mentioned Fleetwood Mac. Oh,yes! This would be great,indeed,and I always thought he'll do that.I think he's born for rock,just that he doesn't know it yet .......I'm still hoping I need to go to the bad fan corner again because I don't remember that. So it sounds like Mika and Greg arranged and produced it. Business as usual. There are just some unfortunate Minnie Mouse vocals on it instead of Priscilla's. I missed that, too. Well, Greg is a master of that it seems: On the question of bullying: it can happen to anyone at any age, anywhere and even if it happened in the past it may have left scars so deep that an older person can revoke it vividly. It is not that the theme does not fit Ariana's age but she sings it in a way that she doesn't seem to understand what she is singing about - if you know what I mean. They should have simply recorded the song from the musical with her as the lyrics to that fit the this mix better. But then of course Mika wouldn't have received this huge exposure to the US teen market... Edit 2: Greg is the connection. He seems to have worked with Ariana before on a song to a tv series (No5) http://reviews.bestbuy.com/3545/2329185/victorious-music-from-the-hit-tv-show-reviews/reviews.htm?sort=helpfulness&suppressscroll=true&showcomments=5333532 Edited January 7, 2013 by suzie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzie Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 (edited) What about Tah Dah? It's got Mika written all over it but Pharrell's name is still attached. I think it's got Barry Gibb written all over it Agreeing with someone who posted before (not sure who, sorry) Tah Dah is a very special song that IMO should have been in the main disc instead of being a bonus (WTF?). . yes, that's something I don't understand, either. I mean, it would have even fitted the sound of the album better than Celebrate. I mean, the songs are in different styles / subgenres but where does this urban rap fit in with Mika? He is not part of that subculture and it does sound awkward in his song. In Popular he uses rap as a means of humour and that type of awkwardness is the key to the humour in the song - and that is also missing from this version of Popular, btw Collaborations are collaborations and I will never understand them. If you are a songwriter, GOSH, MAN, WRITE YOUR OWN SONGS AND DON´T LET ANYONE MESS WITH YOUR IDEAS. (rant over). If you really need (or at least that´s what your label says) to do some collaborations in order to make your album better promoted, at least you should choose better who you collaborate with. I swear I never heard of Pharrel before and never heard of him after knowing he collaborated with Mika... I think collaborations do work for him in general. He seems to need other people's input for songwriting so why not keep that. I have been thinking that besides his ocassionally 'funny' lyrics it is him overthinking the production that spoils some of his songs. Edited January 7, 2013 by suzie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokesignal Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 I realise I didn't express myself very well this morning. Somehow, because of the way Mika has expressed himself about the subject in the past, it seems to me has decided to get past the scars, so in that respect the theme of the song is uncharacteristic. Also, as much as bullying leaves scars, at some point if your're lucky the open wounds will heal enough not to be torn open again by the first sign of trouble. In that respect the theme of the songs to me is something many people from all ages (including in particular Ariana's age) can relate to, but is hopefully more current for people that just came out of the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. Clay Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 (edited) Ahem - #4 USA . . . 'MOST VIRAL' http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-207_162-57562737/death-cab-for-cutie-ushers-in-2013-with-spotifys-most-viral-song/ The following list represents the most viral tracks on Spotify, based on the number of people who shared it divided by the number who listened to it, from Monday, Dec. 31, to Sunday, Jan. 6, via Facebook, Tumblr, Twitter and Spotify. UNITED STATES 1. Death Cab for Cutie, "The New Year" (Barsuk Records) 2. The Neighbourhood, "Sweater Weather" (the ®evolve group) 3. Macklemore & Ryan Lewis feat. Wanz, "Thrift Shop" (Macklemore) 4. MIKA, "Popular Song" (Casablanca Music, LLC) #soundcloud http://soundcloud.com/ariana_grande_love/mika-popular-song-feat-ariana?utm_source=soundcloud&utm_campaign=wtshare&utm_medium=Twitter&utm_content=http:// … 5. Tamar Braxton, "Love and War" (Streamline Records) 6. CHVRCHES, "The Mother We Share" (Create Control) 7. Various Artists, "I Dreamed a Dream" (Cameron Mackintosh Ltd) 8. Christina Aguilera, "Just a Fool" (RCA Records) 9. Alicia Keys, "Brand New Me" (RCA Records) 10. In This Moment, "Blood" (Century Media Records) Edited January 8, 2013 by A. Clay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alie Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 This is very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. Clay Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 (edited) This is very good. 3 CHEERS : Spotify's Top 10 most viral tracks http://www.keyc.tv/story/20529934/spotifys-top-10-most-viral-tracks#.UOy7S0sysV8.twitter Edited January 9, 2013 by A. Clay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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