FREDDIESDOUBLE Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Isn't it? Then why don't we fall off? Is the answer in the Bible or in scientific discovery? Hmmmm science .. but as I say .. science disproves the atheism belief too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naectegale Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Hmmmm science .. but as I say .. science disproves the atheism belief too If Science proved the existence of a deity, I would believe. It doesn't, so I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igloo Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 This is my beef with the long thing .. Once upon a time there was nothing .. DNA was created from nothing ... well a chance meeting of two rocks producing elements that formed an element that produced DNA .. Ok so thats back really do the start , lets forget about how the eye was formed or we can from monkeys or whatever .. So ... the actual chance (it is possible) of DNA happening , and those protein molecules being that way is literally trillions and trillions to one ... So it happened lets say .. then ... From that DNA came hmm a small thing AND that then became a fish and on we go .... For me hmmmmmm doesnt make sense Life didn't necessarily just appear out of nothing. There are many theories on the subject, but the fact is that we don't really know yet... that doesn't mean that we have to explain it with supernatural forces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igloo Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Hmmmm science .. but as I say .. science disproves the atheism belief too How does it disprove atheism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FREDDIESDOUBLE Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 How does it disprove atheism? Ok well maybe not "disprove" , maybe thats too strong a word ... Bottom line is its possible by chance , but that chance is unreal small Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igloo Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Ok well maybe not "disprove" , maybe thats too strong a word ... Bottom line is its possible by chance , but that chance is unreal small I'm sorry, but are you saying that science has 'proven' that is is unlikely that there is no god? Because that is just not true. Science can't say anything about something that it has absolutely no data about. The chance of there being something supernatural or not is completely impossible to calculate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FREDDIESDOUBLE Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I'm sorry, but are you saying that science has 'proven' that is is unlikely that there is no god? Because that is just not true. Science can't say anything about something that it has absolutely no data about. The chance of there being something supernatural or not is completely impossible to calculate. Nooo .. Im saying the scientific evidence of life being created by chance is very low ... DNA being one example:thumb_yello: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igloo Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Nooo .. Im saying the scientific evidence of life being created by chance is very low ... DNA being one example:thumb_yello: Well first of all, that doesn't necessarily say much about how likely it is (or, science wouldn't say how unlikely it would be). That just says that there isn't much evidence for (or even against) it, and that is probably because many of the theories on abiogenesis are hard to test. We might be able to test them further with more modern technology... Second of all, this doesn't say anything about atheism. Atheists don't advocate one theory. All we do is reject one (the one of intelligent design). There are many different theories of abiogenesis, and it doesn't matter that we don't know which one (or if any) of them are true. So if the situation you were talking about (life created out of a rock) was completely disproved, this would still not disprove or lessen the probability of there not being a god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FREDDIESDOUBLE Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Well first of all, that doesn't necessarily say much about how likely it is (or, science wouldn't say how unlikely it would be). That just says that there isn't much evidence for (or even against) it, and that is probably because many of the theories on abiogenesis are hard to test. We might be able to test them further with more modern technology... Second of all, this doesn't say anything about atheism. Atheists don't advocate one theory. All we do is reject one (the one of intelligent design). There are many different theories of abiogenesis, and it doesn't matter that we don't know which one (or if any) of them are true. So if the situation you were talking about (life created out of a rock) was completely disproved, this would still not disprove or lessen the probability of there not being a god. Its a proven fact you would actually struggle to write down the number of 0's the probability of DNA created by chance would be .. its literally trillions to one! .. fact , this is due to the precise nature of how the protein molecules are lined up .. this is not some figure Ive made up its actual science . Im not saying life was NOT created out of a rock ,I said reading and studying both sides both from a believers point and also an engineer where evey day I base decisions on numbers .. I dont get that , I dont get the whole rock to us thing:thumb_yello: I see both sides , thats why Im talking about both sides of the argument. I started from the beginning .. you agree , millions of years ago all we had was nothing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igloo Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Its a proven fact you would actually struggle to write down the number of 0's the probability of DNA created by chance would be .. its literally trillions to one! .. fact , this is due to the precise nature of how the protein molecules are lined up .. this is not some figure Ive made up its actual science . Im not saying life was NOT created out of a rock ,I said reading and studying both sides both from a believers point and also an engineer where evey day I base decisions on numbers .. I dont get that , I dont get the whole rock to us thing:thumb_yello: I see both sides , thats why Im talking about both sides of the argument. I started from the beginning .. you agree , millions of years ago all we had was nothing? And my point was that spontaneous existence of DNA is not the only theory. And the second point is that it doesn't make atheism disproven or more unlikely. Maybe none of the theories we have today are anywhere close to the truth, and we won't even come to think of anything close to the truth until thousands of years from now, if ever... Not having the facts for how life could have appeared without a god doesn't scientifically prove or disprove anything. It just means that we don't know, and that doesn't bother me. We learn more about the world every day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FREDDIESDOUBLE Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 And my point was that spontaneous existence of DNA is not the only theory. And the second point is that it doesn't make atheism disproven or more unlikely. Maybe none of the theories we have today are anywhere close to the truth, and we won't even come to think of anything close to the truth until thousands of years from now, if ever... Not having the facts for how life could have appeared without a god doesn't scientifically prove or disprove anything. It just means that we don't know, and that doesn't bother me. We learn more about the world every day Im with you here .... I mean the technology advance we have now only really started in the 1940s .. with the microchip etc etc (which is what i design btw:roftl:) ahem I agree .. years down the line our knowledge will grow and grow and maybe people will look at us now as we do the cave people:naughty: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igloo Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Im with you here .... I mean the technology advance we have now only really started in the 1940s .. with the microchip etc etc (which is what i design btw:roftl:) ahem I agree .. years down the line our knowledge will grow and grow and maybe people will look at us now as we do the cave people:naughty: lol, yes. It's insane how fast technology has advanced just in a few decades, so I'm really curious about how the world will be 40-50 years from now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FREDDIESDOUBLE Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 lol, yes. It's insane how fast technology has advanced just in a few decades, so I'm really curious about how the world will be 40-50 years from now. Intel are working on a chip set like now .. for total 3D TV and game experience! , none of this wear glasses nonsense .. full projection I think something will be dug up in our time which will blow the world away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igloo Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Intel are working on a chip set like now .. for total 3D TV and game experience! , none of this wear glasses nonsense .. full projection I think something will be dug up in our time which will blow the world away wow, I think that would freak me out. I'm still uber-impressed by the project natal stuff (the games where you'll be able to control everything with movements). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sariflor Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 If Science proved the existence of a deity, I would believe. It doesn't, so I don't. You pretty much summed it all up there. Life didn't necessarily just appear out of nothing. There are many theories on the subject, but the fact is that we don't really know yet... that doesn't mean that we have to explain it with supernatural forces. Well first of all, that doesn't necessarily say much about how likely it is (or, science wouldn't say how unlikely it would be). That just says that there isn't much evidence for (or even against) it, and that is probably because many of the theories on abiogenesis are hard to test. We might be able to test them further with more modern technology... Second of all, this doesn't say anything about atheism. Atheists don't advocate one theory. All we do is reject one (the one of intelligent design). There are many different theories of abiogenesis, and it doesn't matter that we don't know which one (or if any) of them are true. So if the situation you were talking about (life created out of a rock) was completely disproved, this would still not disprove or lessen the probability of there not being a god. Igloo, you're my new best friend. I love you . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruth Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I so so struggle with this , Im a deep believer and an engineer .. Scientifc fact points towards a god or a deeper being Im afraid .. you know water to ant to bird to dolphin to monkey to man .. its rubbish .. on many levels Ive studied both sides actually and for me . .. I cant hold this "nothing" belief I'm not denying that the world, nay, the universe is amazing, wonderful and largely unexplained. The idea of a personal God, a creator who set this going on purpose to get to here and now is just beyond me. And the idea of prayer? And if I can't buy into a personal God, then the whole religion thing is a non-starter. Have you watched this? It's funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sariflor Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I'm not denying that the world, nay, the universe is amazing, wonderful and largely unexplained. The idea of a personal God, a creator who set this going on purpose to get to here and now is just beyond me. And the idea of prayer? And if I can't buy into a personal God, then the whole religion thing is a non-starter. Have you watched this? It's funny. That's the crux of the matter, isn't it? The fact that we don't have an explanation surely doesn't mean that we need to take the first "fairytale" story that comes along, just because it's nice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igloo Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Igloo, you're my new best friend. I love you . haha, well then I'm pretty sure that I love you too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sienna Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Have you watched this? It's funny. Isn't that the hardest thing when you find yourself in a conversation with a person who you discover have such an opposite opinion to most things than you have...so the question is: Where to start? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FREDDIESDOUBLE Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Yes ladies but the whole point of religion is this key word .. faith ... it it was factually then there would be no need for faith. I believe in the power of prayer , really not something to plaster over a forum as some is personnel .. but I believe in it Interesting I just read a book on the 12 men that have stepped on the moon , all came back and turned to relegion , it was such a mind blowing deep experience Now I know the universe is amazing , and on our level its very much had to understand but ... what I was saying yesterday was lets take out the fairytale out of all this , the "chance" of life being created by chance is small , incredibly small .. proven fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igloo Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 yeah, it's faith. And we don't have faith in any gods. Not having all the answers is just not enough for us to turn to "magic" and faith in gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igloo Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Isn't that the hardest thing when you find yourself in a conversation with a person who you discover have such an opposite opinion to most things than you have...so the question is: Where to start? My boyfriends mother is very christian, and has recently become hooked on everything alternative. Last time I met her she tried healing my knee, and read me my 'angel cards'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FREDDIESDOUBLE Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 yeah, it's faith. And we don't have faith in any gods. Not having all the answers is just not enough for us to turn to "magic" and faith in gods. We shall see .. some years down the line Ill be playing my hard on a nice fluffy cloud , you can sit in a firey pit with the souls of the screaming lost people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Igloo Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 We shall see .. some years down the line Ill be playing my hard on a nice fluffy cloud , you can sit in a firey pit with the souls of the screaming lost people lol, or we'll just be dead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FREDDIESDOUBLE Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 lol, or we'll just be dead Touche Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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