Any atheists ?

[Pam Travers]

at the mo I'm attracted by the opposite.. Far East

 

lol

 

i dont know why i have a problem with far east, do you know the meaning of the cardinals btw?

 

north : you want to be active

south: you want to rest

west: you are facing your future

east: you are facing your past

 

now , it worths what it worths, lol

[elanorelle]

I'm a wannabe science nerd

 

I've always paid more attention to my compulsion to write than my interest in science because I have a serious complex about math, so I thought I could never be good at science.

 

When I was 22, I met a guy with an engineering degree. He was my best friend for six years and my fiance for a short time, which all ended badly. While we were friends, he nurtured my interest in computers and I read his books on physics and thermodynamics when I visited. We'd have long discussions about particles and waves and how things work in general. (I'm a big fan of magnetic fields!)

 

Talking to him reminded me of how I used to ask questions about how the sun rises and why the sky turns colors and how geysers work. It reminded me about how much I loved physics and how completely bitter I was that I never got to take the physics class taught by the teacher who had a Rube Goldberg contest in his class every year. I was certain I would have won if I'd had the chance.

 

Now, I just borrow physics textbooks from people and pick their brains about what they are learning as often as I can. I dream about going back to school. Unfortunately, money is a huge issue and I'm not sure if I could deal with the high pressure weeding out process of a decent engineering program (because if I'm going to do it, I'm going to a good school.) If I can get the funding, I'm going to find out because I think I've got the brain it takes to be a fine engineer.

 

When I was in Florida a few weeks ago, I met a musician whose work is among my all time favorites and got to spend two hours talking with an engineer, who is part of the team that is developing an oxygen generator for space travel. I'm not sure which I was more excited about, but both events made for a perfect weekend. Also, I think that I would have more fun writing up research reports and paperwork than I would writing about anything else. There's a HUGE need for engineers who happen to be able to write. Besides, I think I could write some amazing science fiction with the right inspiration

 

I'd be more of a Ray Bradbury than an H.G. Wells or Issaac Asimov, but I love Ray Bradbury, so I have no problem with that!

 

Ok, maybe I'm a LITTLE bit of a science geek, but I'd be delighted to be more of one!

 

I love science! the beauty of it, the answers it comes up with is so elegant

[Naectegale]

and @ the others..atheist are not necessarly cinic nihilists..I'm more than a radical idealist.

Ok, I passed thru the adolescent angst period but.. I believe today's generation differentiates itself from the generations of the 1980's and 1990's, which were't waiting for anything; they were satisfied with mass culture...don't you perceive as the new generation is waiting for something like a sorta utopian state?

So I actually believe in something.."minimal utopias". I could also believe in "miracles" but in small ones.

 

also I would say that imo the notions of beginning and end are just rational constructs...time doesn't exist.

Life, for me, is just a continuation.

 

Hi Greta

 

I worried for a long time that atheism was simply negative, and that if we abandoned religion we would not be able to replace it with anything positive. My boss at work is a Humanist - I read their website http://www.humanism.org.uk/site/cms/ and found that I agreed with a lot of what they said. Their website states

 

"Humanism is the belief that we can live good lives without religious or superstitious beliefs. Humanists make sense of the world using reason, experience and shared human values. We seek to make the best of the one life we have by creating meaning and purpose for ourselves. We take responsibility for our actions and work with others for the common good."

 

and they also say

 

"Humanism encompasses atheism and agnosticism ‑ but is an active and ethical philosophy far greater than these negative responses to religion. "

 

There is a lot more on the site that, to me at least, makes a lot of sense.

[Naectegale]

hya! Are you a free-thinker too?

thanks for the link:wink2:

 

I didn't know there were an association like that {ok, UK the clubs country}

 

From what I remember Humanism -since 500- is that "weltanschauung" based on Reason Ethic and Justice that assert the ontologic supremacy of the human being, and refused supernatural, pseudo-science and superstition.

 

hm well ok, so I may consider myself a humanist afterall

 

But I don't believe in labels, definitions dangerously lead to stereotypes.

"Atheists" and "agnosticists" have nothing negative to me..they could be actively trying to change the world for the better too.

 

I've never thought of myself as a "free thinker", but I've always tried to think for myself, and to be as liberal as possible. I've never been one to join groups - religious or political - because I can never accept a set of ideas as a "job lot". What I like about the British Humanist Association is that they take the basic idea and develope it into real action - lobbying the government on a wide range of issues - and for once (so far) they haven't said anything I disagree with. I'm tempted to join!

[Pam Travers]

 

I worried for a long time that atheism was simply negative, and that if we abandoned religion we would not be able to replace it with anything positive. My boss at work is a Humanist - I read their website http://www.humanism.org.uk/site/cms/ and found that I agreed with a lot of what they said. Their website states

 

"Humanism is the belief that we can live good lives without religious or superstitious beliefs. Humanists make sense of the world using reason, experience and shared human values. We seek to make the best of the one life we have by creating meaning and purpose for ourselves. We take responsibility for our actions and work with others for the common good."

 

and they also say

 

"Humanism encompasses atheism and agnosticism ‑ but is an active and ethical philosophy far greater than these negative responses to religion. "

 

There is a lot more on the site that, to me at least, makes a lot of sense.

 

philosopically talking im a nihilist, i think humanism is partly something people who needed something to replace religion are into, ive been thinking for a long time that i was a humanist but thats not right, im a pure nihilist, add to that that sometimes you can state transcendental states, there is something related to transcendance into this world, black magic works, but the term of black magic itself discredit the whole thing oh and humanists are sometimes very interventionists, they think they can change the world in a positive way, which is a lie, i refall easily in that lie sometimes btw.but of course the whole thing is deeper than that. only sex and art are higher. thats what i think-

 

nihilsm:

 

-Objective morality does not exist.

-No action is logically preferable to any other in regard to the moral value of one action over another.

-In the absence of objective morality, existence has no intrinsic higher meaning or goal.

-There is no reasonable proof or argument for the existence of a higher ruler or creator.

-Even if a higher ruler or creator exists, humanity has no moral obligation to worship them.

 

The Puppet and the Dwarf: the Perverse Core of Christianity

nice title, im off to find it

[Christine]

nihilsm:

 

-Objective morality does not exist.

-No action is logically preferable to any other in regard to the moral value of one action over another.

-In the absence of objective morality, existence has no intrinsic higher meaning or goal.

-There is no reasonable proof or argument for the existence of a higher ruler or creator.

-Even if a higher ruler or creator exists, humanity has no moral obligation to worship them.

 

That about sums up my views. I got divorced over #3.

[Naectegale]

I tend to agree with riverstwilight on this - we are social animals so need to find a way of working together. I don't think we will ever reach a perfect utopia (which would actually be pretty dull, anyway:bleh:) but we can try to make things better than they are now.

 

xx N

[Naectegale]

Now, why didn't I just say that?!

 

Oh right, I'm a total show off

 

:blush-anim-cl:for "total show off" read "eloquent intellectual":thumb_yello:

 

xx N

[Naectegale]

well I would've surely joined...pity I don't live in GreatBritain

 

Hi Greta

 

They do accept members from any country, and there is also an International Humanist and Ethical Union. http://www.iheu.org which has details of humanist groups in other countries.

 

xx N

[Pam Travers]

That about sums up my views. I got divorced over #3.

 

 

 

when Art and active humanism meet

http://www.pinkstate:com

 

 

"Artist Marco Evaristti plans to feed the body of Gene Hathorn to the fish.

 

A convict on death row in America has agreed to let his body be made into a work of art if his final appeal against execution fails.

 

Gene Hathorn, who has been on death row since 1985, has given his consent for artist Marco Evaristti, the bad boy of the Danish art scene, to use his body as an art installation.

 

"My aim is to first deep freeze Gene's body and then make fish food out of it. Visitors to my exhibition will be able to feed goldfish with it," Evaristti told the Art Newspaper.

 

It is not the first time the artist has gained notoriety: in 2000, he came to worldwide attention when he put live goldfish into 10 electric blenders filled with water and invited visitors to the exhibition at Denmark's Trapholt Art Museum to switch them on.

 

The artist has visited Hathorn, 47, at his prison in Texas several times in the last year, and hopes this work will go on to form part of his wider project against capital punishment, which has included designing clothes for prisoners to wear on their execution day.

 

Evaristti does not think his plan is unethical. "The real problem is legally killing people," he said.

 

The artist has previously campaigned on issues of territorial boundaries and environmental pollution by spray-painting an entire iceberg red in Greenland in 2004. In June last year he was arrested while trying to do the same to the peak of Mont Blanc.

 

 

Red alert ... a painted iceberg by Evaristti. Photograph: Reuters According to Evaristti, lawyers in the US doubt whether Hathorn's testament, which bequeaths his body to the artist, is valid.

 

Hathorn has been awaiting execution after being found guilty of the murder of his father, stepmother and stepbrother in 1985.

 

His friend James Beathard was also convicted for the murders on the testimony of Hathorn, who believed he would be spared as a result. When prosecutors reneged on the deal, Hathorn recanted his testimony, but it was too late to beat a 30-day deadline following Beathard's conviction and he was executed by lethal injection in 1999."

 

well, interesting, i like the blenders/goldfish part, i wonder if i would have gone to this exhibition

[mikas_gal07]

hi people

 

I just wondered if this may interest any atheists on the thread

 

Its just been discussed on a television program ...

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2006/11/20/the-very-big-bang-machine-115875-18123355/

 

Something to do with a big bang machine that is going to be tested tomorrow in switzerland ... i found it very interesting but also way to intellectual for me if anyone can explain in simpler terms what this machine attempts to do , i would love to have it explained in a simpler form HAHA

[nico_collard]

Wow... I found some of this conversation very enlightening...

 

 

when Art and active humanism meet

http://www.pinkstate:com

 

 

"Artist Marco Evaristti plans to feed the body of Gene Hathorn to the fish.

 

A convict on death row in America has agreed to let his body be made into a work of art if his final appeal against execution fails.

 

Gene Hathorn, who has been on death row since 1985, has given his consent for artist Marco Evaristti, the bad boy of the Danish art scene, to use his body as an art installation.

 

"My aim is to first deep freeze Gene's body and then make fish food out of it. Visitors to my exhibition will be able to feed goldfish with it," Evaristti told the Art Newspaper.

 

It is not the first time the artist has gained notoriety: in 2000, he came to worldwide attention when he put live goldfish into 10 electric blenders filled with water and invited visitors to the exhibition at Denmark's Trapholt Art Museum to switch them on.

 

The artist has visited Hathorn, 47, at his prison in Texas several times in the last year, and hopes this work will go on to form part of his wider project against capital punishment, which has included designing clothes for prisoners to wear on their execution day.

 

Evaristti does not think his plan is unethical. "The real problem is legally killing people," he said.

 

The artist has previously campaigned on issues of territorial boundaries and environmental pollution by spray-painting an entire iceberg red in Greenland in 2004. In June last year he was arrested while trying to do the same to the peak of Mont Blanc.

 

 

Red alert ... a painted iceberg by Evaristti. Photograph: Reuters According to Evaristti, lawyers in the US doubt whether Hathorn's testament, which bequeaths his body to the artist, is valid.

 

Hathorn has been awaiting execution after being found guilty of the murder of his father, stepmother and stepbrother in 1985.

 

His friend James Beathard was also convicted for the murders on the testimony of Hathorn, who believed he would be spared as a result. When prosecutors reneged on the deal, Hathorn recanted his testimony, but it was too late to beat a 30-day deadline following Beathard's conviction and he was executed by lethal injection in 1999."

 

well, interesting, i like the blenders/goldfish part, i wonder if i would have gone to this exhibition

 

 

I remember hearing about the goldfish in the blenders thing... I don't quite understand how it is art, but the way I see it is that it had to to with ethics and morals... sort of "if you had the opportunity to kill something intentionally, would you do it?"

 

And that painting icebergs thing reminds me of an Aussie artist that painted dead animals on the road to educate people about something.. I think it was about how native animals get hit by trucks a lot and no-one seems to care...

 

 

 

Anyways, the bold bit I completely agree with... killing is killing, even if the person killed another human being.

 

An eye for an eye isn't good enough justification in my book.

 

 

I'll leave you to it...

[sienna]

hi people

 

I just wondered if this may interest any atheists on the thread

 

Its just been discussed on a television program ...

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2006/11/20/the-very-big-bang-machine-115875-18123355/

 

Something to do with a big bang machine that is going to be tested tomorrow in switzerland ... i found it very interesting but also way to intellectual for me if anyone can explain in simpler terms what this machine attempts to do , i would love to have it explained in a simpler form HAHA

 

 

Interesting but so very hard to understand, I’ll be happy to have an explanation with small words too!

[sienna]

Wow... I found some of this conversation very enlightening...

 

 

 

 

 

I remember hearing about the goldfish in the blenders thing... I don't quite understand how it is art, but the way I see it is that it had to to with ethics and morals... sort of "if you had the opportunity to kill something intentionally, would you do it?"

 

And that painting icebergs thing reminds me of an Aussie artist that painted dead animals on the road to educate people about something.. I think it was about how native animals get hit by trucks a lot and no-one seems to care...

 

 

 

Anyways, the bold bit I completely agree with... killing is killing, even if the person killed another human being.

 

An eye for an eye isn't good enough justification in my book.

 

 

I'll leave you to it...

 

Does the goldfish thing really raise the question about ethics and morals?

I don’t know, in my simple mind it’s just killing, taking the power to kill an innocent animal because you can. Bad moral if you ask me!

 

This no easy questions, to me he seems to take very drastic methods to be seen and heard and maybe get his point through.

At least I hope this is his allusion or goal.

But it’s drastic to a point that maybe goes over the goal (skjuter över mål, in my language)

Meaning he does it with so much force it becomes awkward!

[Pam Travers]

if anyone can explain in simpler terms

 

 

the machine will be attempting to create the higgs particle...

 

... and if it doesnt work then....god exists:naughty:

 

 

I don't quite understand how it is art, but the way I see it is that it had to to with ethics and morals

 

Art is about resistance, most of the time, werther you take it in the sense of a personal or a global resistance...

 

when Mika put up drawings of Marcel Dzama on his blog thats cool, now if MD would be a man drawing little cute charachters ONLY, you wouldnt know about him. His work is also socio-political.If you look at his drawings without understanding the whole stuff, its simply not interesting and useless, of course you can just enjoy the drawings but what a dishonour for his work(Especially in the case of Dzama who is very very conceptual) there is a lot to say about his work, really.

 

 

Does the goldfish thing really raise the question about ethics and morals?

I don’t know, in my simple mind it’s just killing, taking the power to kill an innocent animal because you can. Bad moral if you ask me!

 

yes it really does.

i can see some people being shocked and disgusted at this when they will have meat for supper , drive a 4X4 and of course support death penalty, its all about coherence

 

now you are questioning the fact that it might be a too violent way to wake up people, maybe... do you remember that campaign "this is the language of the oppressors but we need it to talk to you"

 

but thats a long debate...

[Diana]

hi people

 

I just wondered if this may interest any atheists on the thread

 

Its just been discussed on a television program ...

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2006/11/20/the-very-big-bang-machine-115875-18123355/

 

Something to do with a big bang machine that is going to be tested tomorrow in switzerland ... i found it very interesting but also way to intellectual for me if anyone can explain in simpler terms what this machine attempts to do , i would love to have it explained in a simpler form HAHA

 

I remember seeing Jos Engelen on a tv show a while back..

Basically they've built a circular tunnel in which little particles will move in opposite directions.

They want to make two tiny particles collide so that they will form a new particle.

In order to make that particle form they think there's another tiny particle that nobody has ever seen, that gets inserted when the two initial particles collide. They want to know what that particle is, make it visible.

 

Basically they are going to recreate circumstances as they were during the big bang. They want to know why matter won instead of antimatter, making our existence possible.

Am I making any sense?

[mikas_gal07]

the machine will be attempting to create the higgs particle...

 

... and if it doesnt work then....god exists:naughty:

 

wow so basically if this particle does NOT exist then it may be proved that the earth wasnt created by the big bang ? Thats some deep stuff , i cant wait to hear what they find ... the big bang has been such a major theory as to how we are here now ... if its found that earth wasnt created by the big bang though im sure scientists will come up with more theories

 

I remember seeing Jos Engelen on a tv show a while back..

Basically they've built a circular tunnel in which little particles will move in opposite directions.

They want to make two tiny particles collide so that they will form a new particle.

In order to make that particle form they think there's another tiny particle that nobody has ever seen, that gets inserted when the two initial particles collide. They want to know what that particle is, make it visible.

 

Basically they are going to recreate circumstances as they were during the big bang. They want to know why matter won instead of antimatter, making our existence possible.

Am I making any sense?

 

yes , im with you , thanks ! i had trouble following it on tv , its really brain mashing stuff, but so interesting

[Naectegale]

wow so basically if this particle does NOT exist then it may be proved that the earth wasnt created by the big bang ? Thats some deep stuff , i cant wait to hear what they find ... the big bang has been such a major theory as to how we are here now ... if its found that earth wasnt created by the big bang though im sure scientists will come up with more theories

 

Hi Mikas_gal07 - This is a fascinating experiment, although I don't pretend to understand it!

 

I don't see that the outcome will prove or disprove any religious theories - religions don't need scientific "proof" - they rely on faith. If the experiment disproves the"big bang" theory, then scientists will indeed come up with a new theory, or modify the existing theory to include what they have learned. I very much doubt that the new theory will include the existance of a deity in any form

 

Of course, if the world ends as a result of this experiment, then we will never know who was right (and won't care either)

[Pam Travers]

a cool text

 

 

" Went down for an ashtray, came back up with a hammer

It's hard to concentrate when no one you know

Is in the know

 

Yeah scientists they do insist

My friends, man, they're all depressed

As I'm trying to get to the gist

And into the aftershow

So I rattle on a little while

Find a principle for my style

Any number I'm gonna dial

I know someone will accommodate

I spoke too much, I wanna fight

Repeat the same **** I said last night

Did 34 push-ups

… should have done 68!

 

 

I believe in anything

As long as it just has that ring

Of truth and I can lay down my head

Cause I seen so many people lost

I still believe at any cost

That we musta been misled

 

Oh your God!

So it tragedy would make you feel

You need a divine drug to heal

And a better god, cuts a better deal,

That's what you got

 

See I'm stuck in this ungodly game

And I only have myself to blame

In the name of the father, in the name of fame,

In the name of what?

In the name of something bigger

Your god can only snigger

And the sight of all this rigour

With sex the only trigger

For love… or was it the other way round?

 

Cause it's only beauty that makes me sweat

And to me it seems the best bet yet,

In your head or in your bed

That's my hallowed ground

 

Cause I believe in anything

As long as it just has that ring

Of truth and I can lay down my head

Cause I seen so many people lost

I still believe at any cost

That we musta been misled

Oh ooooh…

Oh your God!

Who looks…

 

… over my shoulder?

 

Aaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh……..!

 

It's in everything true

Hell it's in me and you

For a second or two

You believe

It don't come from above

This concentration and love

 

You gotta believe it

To see it

Oh your God

Who looks over my shoulder"

[femifrosk]

I was. Now, I'm an agnostic. I'm not sure about anything these days.

[Naectegale]

I've just seen this on the BBC news website - it made me smile

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7681914.stm

[femifrosk]

George Carlin - Religion is bullsh*t.

Genius!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

[Naectegale]

The British Humanist Association bus ad campaign has taken off in a big way. Here's a great article from The Times

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article5003070.ece

 

Enjoy

[Naectegale]

An interesting article from the Daily Mail (and you don't hear that phrase every day )

 

David Attenborough's response to fundamentalists about evolution.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1127826/My-vicious-hate-mail-ordeal-Attenborough-evolutionist.html

 

He's always been a hero of mine

[Ruth]

George Carlin - Religion is bullsh*t.

Genius!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

 

Now where have I seen this name recently?.............