lala_lollies44 Posted November 10, 2009 Share Posted November 10, 2009 Religion is just an excuse for the violence and war so if it wasn't religion it would be something else. Humans seem to love categorizing themselves and others into ingroups and outgroups. The same tensions will be caused by differences in politics, race, language, class...official fan forums... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naectegale Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 Richard_Dawkins: A theory is not a belief, but a framework to explain a subset of the universe and its validity is entirely objective. http://www.collegiatetimes.com/stories/14663/religious-belief-based-on-faith-theory-based-on-fact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruth Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 I do agree. I am guilty of humouring the believers out of some misplaced sense of respect...... Another Radio 4 program put me right this morning. They were discussing one guy, who wants his belief in the cause of environmental damage being caused by human activity, and a woman, who wants her belief in spirituality, to be classed as religious beliefs so that they get protection under the law and can sue for wrongful dismissal from their jobs. And the man said: "Just because we tolerate other beliefs, we don't have to respect them." And I thought, "thanks that's what I mean." So now I know I'm tolerating their right to hold beliefsbut I don't have to respect them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sariflor Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Richard_Dawkins: A theory is not a belief, but a framework to explain a subset of the universe and its validity is entirely objective. http://www.collegiatetimes.com/stories/14663/religious-belief-based-on-faith-theory-based-on-fact Exactly. And what gets to me is people who want to make others give their beliefs the status of some sort of fact. Nothing is objective or factual about beliefs and religion, and I think that society as a whole has been guilty for a very long time of humouring and being way too tolerant with these ideas. Too many religious people seem convinced about the fact that their beliefs hold the same "realistic" value as proper, contrasted, scientifically proved facts or theories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruth Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 I'm OK with tolerant. I'm tolerant of lots of things in life and in society that I don't agree with or wouldn't do, but I know others think and act in different ways and as long as they leave me to my life, that's fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pattycakes Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Hi everybody! Fellow atheist here. Nice to see you all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FREDDIESDOUBLE Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 I so so struggle with this , Im a deep believer and an engineer .. Scientifc fact points towards a god or a deeper being Im afraid .. you know water to ant to bird to dolphin to monkey to man .. its rubbish .. on many levels Ive studied both sides actually and for me . .. I cant hold this "nothing" belief Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FREDDIESDOUBLE Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 (edited) The main actually for me is this , lets turn the clock back millions of year .. so ... We had rock and nothing .. fact ... so from this rock and heat and energy came what ? life? Ok so from this DNA came .. the possibility or probability of DNA being naturally created is trillions and trillions and trillions to one ... ok so a chance but a very very small one .. Every thing we have speaks of a higher life form , even the basically laws of physics state .. "energy can neither be created nor destroyed" ... Edited November 15, 2009 by FREDDIESDOUBLE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naectegale Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 Hi everybody! Fellow atheist here. Nice to see you all! Hello Nice to see you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naectegale Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 I so so struggle with this , Im a deep believer and an engineer .. Scientifc fact points towards a god or a deeper being Im afraid .. you know water to ant to bird to dolphin to monkey to man .. its rubbish .. on many levels Ive studied both sides actually and for me . .. I cant hold this "nothing" belief hello Freddie Have you read Richard Dawkins' "The God Delusion"? He clarified a lot of things for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FREDDIESDOUBLE Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 hello Freddie Have you read Richard Dawkins' "The God Delusion"? He clarified a lot of things for me I havent tbh ... is it worth a read? I mean its very very tough as an engineer to believe .. at times .. but for sure science is proving that some things are just not possible ... Ill read anything pretty much on the subject , on both sides of the argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnnieM Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I havent tbh ... is it worth a read? I mean its very very tough as an engineer to believe .. at times .. but for sure science is proving that some things are just not possible ... Ill read anything pretty much on the subject , on both sides of the argument Dear Freddiesdouble, Also worth a read is Carl Sagan's "The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark'. Wonderful book. Helped me a lot. Cheers Annie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FREDDIESDOUBLE Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Dear Freddiesdouble, Also worth a read is Carl Sagan's "The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark'. Wonderful book. Helped me a lot. Cheers Annie Thanks I shall read these over my time off at crimbo I dont see how the human eye so complex for example could just "happen" , I fully believe in a superior design Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I think I've got Dawkins on audio if you prefer that, FD. I always find myself falling asleep when I try to listen to audio books though. I'm not sure if books like this would convince me or not. I studied biological anthropology at university and it's more hands on, handling bones and fossils and reading information from the source (or closer to it, in any case) rather than some explanation in layman's terms. I am a skeptic on all fronts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FREDDIESDOUBLE Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Thanks Christine that would be ace OK so when my dad died , his side of the family are Roman Catholics so they kinda looked after me , it was only natural that I went into it and I having a thinking mind studied too ... Now without question the bible within itself contradicts itself , and 2000 years later its very hard to believe some of the things , i.e virgin birth , the brought back to life aspects , and if you read some books there is evidence of why it happened and that its all false... So thats where the "belief" side of life comes from I guess. Now .. moving on .. what REALLY put me off religion was in my mid 20s , I met a most pretty girl ... expect she was ga ga .. and she was a born again christian For those months I saw a side of religion that was dangerous and nasty , the church she went to made her believe sex,make up, drink and a lot more was dangerous and of the devil .. that group of girls used to wake up at night seeing demons and snakes and all sorts of nasty things in their bed and sleep .... So that REALLY put me off , that side of relegion I detest .. I remember going to a church where they were "laying on hands" , literally dozens of people were crashing to the floor .. screaming get the devil out of me !! they came to me and I told them where to go!! .. I was the one catching these pour people Ok so now yearsss later (and much therapy ) , I really like the argument between evolution and the theory of create .. I just find it SO hard to believe that from a mass of rock you end up with a complex human , now I know its just as hard to believe a man sits on cloud creating all this as a higher being GREAT subject btw .. could talk all day on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naectegale Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I havent tbh ... is it worth a read? I mean its very very tough as an engineer to believe .. at times .. but for sure science is proving that some things are just not possible ... Ill read anything pretty much on the subject , on both sides of the argument Thanks I shall read these over my time off at crimbo I dont see how the human eye so complex for example could just "happen" , I fully believe in a superior design Definitely worth a read - I've always been an agnostic/atheist not sure how sure to be about my lack of belief - inclined to sit on the fence. Then I read that book and jumped off the fence on the atheist side He explains a lot of science, so that even I can understand it - and he explains the mechanism by which the eye could develop - there is evidence to support it. Also - makes the point that evolution theory, like most science, is open to question, and can be amended as new evidence is found - it is not a dogma, does not require blind faith without reason. I think he can be a little strident sometimes - but not half so strident as some religious fundamentalists. Give it a go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FREDDIESDOUBLE Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Awesome! Thanks ladies I shall read and listen Im very open minded for sure , but I must say I do believe , my faith is strong , but I love to study anyways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FREDDIESDOUBLE Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 This is my beef with the long thing .. Once upon a time there was nothing .. DNA was created from nothing ... well a chance meeting of two rocks producing elements that formed an element that produced DNA .. Ok so thats back really do the start , lets forget about how the eye was formed or we can from monkeys or whatever .. So ... the actual chance (it is possible) of DNA happening , and those protein molecules being that way is literally trillions and trillions to one ... So it happened lets say .. then ... From that DNA came hmm a small thing AND that then became a fish and on we go .... For me hmmmmmm doesnt make sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naectegale Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 This is my beef with the long thing .. Once upon a time there was nothing .. DNA was created from nothing ... well a chance meeting of two rocks producing elements that formed an element that produced DNA .. Ok so thats back really do the start , lets forget about how the eye was formed or we can from monkeys or whatever .. So ... the actual chance (it is possible) of DNA happening , and those protein molecules being that way is literally trillions and trillions to one ... So it happened lets say .. then ... From that DNA came hmm a small thing AND that then became a fish and on we go .... For me hmmmmmm doesnt make sense But the design theory has the same basic problem - if complex things need to be designed, and God designed everything, who/what designed God? I find it easier to see how simple things evolved into complex things, than to see how a complex almighty being just was there, all along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FREDDIESDOUBLE Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 But the design theory has the same basic problem - if God designed everything, who/what designed God? Yes .. Im with you there That energy (god) must of been there to start with .. and that doesnt make sense either If we could explain where that energy first came from things could be alot easier to understand .. Its a massive massive subject Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naectegale Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Yes .. Im with you there That energy (god) must of been there to start with .. and that doesnt make sense either If we could explain where that energy first came from things could be alot easier to understand .. Its a massive massive subject I don't think religion or science have got to the bottom of that yet I'm a bit skeptical of the big bang being the start of everything. An explosion may have formed our universe, but out of what? I don't think science knows everything yet, but I do believe we may have a credible explanation one day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greta Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 mwhaha Ratzinger is always on Tv spreading the Word btw http://www.dailyatheistquote.com/ weeee love this:teehee: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FREDDIESDOUBLE Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I don't think religion or science have got to the bottom of that yet I'm a bit skeptical of the big bang being the start of everything. An explosion may have formed our universe, but out of what? I don't think science knows everything yet, but I do believe we may have a credible explanation one day Im sure of that , Im also sure there is massive evidence on this earth that we will find .. Also alien existance .. another subject ... are we alone? this little blue planet in the whole universe with life .? I think hundreds or thousands of years down the line they will look at us Im sure as we look at people who thought the earth was flat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naectegale Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Im sure of that , Im also sure there is massive evidence on this earth that we will find .. Also alien existance .. another subject ... are we alone? this little blue planet in the whole universe with life .? I think hundreds or thousands of years down the line they will look at us Im sure as we look at people who thought the earth was flat Isn't it? Then why don't we fall off? Is the answer in the Bible or in scientific discovery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naectegale Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 mwhaha Ratzinger is always on Tv spreading the Word btw http://www.dailyatheistquote.com/ weeee love this:teehee: Love the daily atheist quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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