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Pam Travers

By Pam Travers
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Naectegale

Naectegale

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I find this new Blasphemy law in Ireland disturbing - it plays into the hands of fanatics who choose to be offended at the slightest criticism of religion. I hope that the Irish atheists can succeed in making their objective to get it repealed. I triedthe link to their website, but it doesn't seem to be available :sad: Have they been gagged already? or just overwhelmed by the number of hits to their site?

 

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/01/irish-atheists-challenge-blasphemy-law

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8437460.stm

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Igloo

Igloo

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I find this new Blasphemy law in Ireland disturbing - it plays into the hands of fanatics who choose to be offended at the slightest criticism of religion. I hope that the Irish atheists can succeed in making their objective to get it repealed. I triedthe link to their website, but it doesn't seem to be available :sad: Have they been gagged already? or just overwhelmed by the number of hits to their site?

 

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/01/irish-atheists-challenge-blasphemy-law

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8437460.stm

 

We had a dead/sleeping blasphemy law a little while ago. They wanted to revive it, but I think they ended up just removing the whole thing...

I do think that stuff like that Muhammed drawings were completely unnecessary and disrespectful, but I don't think it should be illegal.

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Blossom

Blossom

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I don't consider myself religious, i.e. I don't go to church or pray every day, but I truly believe that the most important thing is for people to be civil towards each other in their everyday lives.

 

I was baptised as a Catholic soon after my birth but it really saddens me about the current situation within the Church here in Ireland. It's completely unacceptable. :sad:

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sariflor

sariflor

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I find this new Blasphemy law in Ireland disturbing - it plays into the hands of fanatics who choose to be offended at the slightest criticism of religion. I hope that the Irish atheists can succeed in making their objective to get it repealed. I triedthe link to their website, but it doesn't seem to be available :sad: Have they been gagged already? or just overwhelmed by the number of hits to their site?

 

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/01/irish-atheists-challenge-blasphemy-law

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8437460.stm

 

This is terrible- And very right what you say about the fanatics who choose to be offended. I can't believe that they've actually gone ahead with this. I'm very disappointed.How can we have laws like these in this day and age?!

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Soaring Simpson

Soaring Simpson

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To me, that is what it's all about. People create or believe the idea of God and an after life, in order to cope with life. Some people need this more than others, hence the ones who (like myself) are happy to go along with this life not needing to know that there is something else after it, and others who can't fathom that idea and need to belive that there will be some other life once they die...It's a matter of personal need, no more than that.

And re the bible and its veracity/validity.... Please let's not go there :roftl:

We'd be debating here for years, but the only clear fact about it is that nothing in it which can be proved, can be taken as enough evidence to sustain the idea of a deity.

 

"You can't prove there's no God, no fairies, no leprechauns, or that Thor or Apollo don't exist. There's got to be a positive reason to think that fairies exist. Until somebody does, we can say technically we are agnostic about fairies. We can't disprove them, but we think it's a bit of a waste of time trying. And the same goes for God."

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/TECH/science/11/25/darwin.dawkins.evolution/

 

:thumb_yello:

 

Atheism isn't an attack on diversity, it's a defense of reality. :thumb_yello:

 

http://www.alternet.org/belief/144199/why_i_want_to_turn_religious_people_into_atheists/?page=1

 

I'm with Freddie on this one- atheism isn't any more logical or obvious than religious faith- in my opinion it takes a large amount of credulity to believe the world "just happened"- I find atheists insistance that theirs is not a position of faith quite irritating- of course it is!

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Naectegale

Naectegale

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I'm with Freddie on this one- atheism isn't any more logical or obvious than religious faith- in my opinion it takes a large amount of credulity to believe the world "just happened"- I find atheists insistance that theirs is not a position of faith quite irritating- of course it is!

 

No it isn't :biggrin2:

 

I've read Richard Dawkins - he explains quite a lot of the things that theists call "chance" - they are not chance at all :no: but demonstrated by scientific evidence.

 

Not all science is perfect - it thrives on theories being developed and proved or discarded to take knowledge forward - it allows for doubt, does not require faith.

 

And there is a lot still unexplained - I just don't need to fill the gaps by inventing a god to explain them.

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Soaring Simpson

Soaring Simpson

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No it isn't :biggrin2:

 

I've read Richard Dawkins - he explains quite a lot of the things that theists call "chance" - they are not chance at all :no: but demonstrated by scientific evidence.

 

Not all science is perfect - it thrives on theories being developed and proved or discarded to take knowledge forward - it allows for doubt, does not require faith.

 

And there is a lot still unexplained - I just don't need to fill the gaps by inventing a god to explain them.

 

My vicar studied with Richard Dawkins when he was a student- he obviously wasn't convinced. My degree is in science, which I find exciting, and my work is in evidencing- and I know that there isn't enough time in the world for me to read Dawkins and all those who disagree with him and form a view. Possibly you have. I also know that no-one has any real idea where the "matter" came from before the big bang (none that's convinced Patrick Moore, anyway) though atheists believe there is a non religious explanation. But then I know a lot of people who cling to atheism because the idea of a God frightens them.

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Naectegale

Naectegale

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My vicar studied with Richard Dawkins when he was a student- he obviously wasn't convinced. My degree is in science, which I find exciting, and my work is in evidencing- and I know that there isn't enough time in the world for me to read Dawkins and all those who disagree with him and form a view. Possibly you have. I also know that no-one has any real idea where the "matter" came from before the big bang (none that's convinced Patrick Moore, anyway) though atheists believe there is a non religious explanation. But then I know a lot of people who cling to atheism because the idea of a God frightens them.

 

Why would we be scared of something that doesn't exist? :blink:

 

I haven't read everything. I went to a Cof E school, I shared a flat with a devout Baptist, I sing at a Catholic Church, I occasionally read the religious bits of Arab News online and I have never believed in God. I'm not a recent Dawkins convert and I approched reading "The God Delusion" with a fair amount of scepticism - and it was great to read things that I already knew by instinct to be true. I do find Dawkins a little abrasive at times, but he is mostly right, most of the time. (IMHO :blush-anim-cl:)

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Naectegale

Naectegale

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Just entering your serious thread with this: everytime I see Korean Thread, I read: Koran Thread.....So then I have to think of this thread again.....:aah: sorry to have interupted!

 

:bye:

 

Welcome AMP :thumb_yello:

 

I think there may have been a Muslim thread, but not many people posted (or have I imagined that?)

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Igloo

Igloo

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I'm with Freddie on this one- atheism isn't any more logical or obvious than religious faith- in my opinion it takes a large amount of credulity to believe the world "just happened"- I find atheists insistance that theirs is not a position of faith quite irritating- of course it is!

 

Compare it to believing in Santa Clause: believing that he exists and delivers presents to all the children in the world is here faith. Not believing that he exists is the absence of that faith. There is nothing supernatural or dogmatic, in my non-belief in Santa Clause.

 

And the only thing we atheists definitely have in common is the absence of a belief in any god. Some people might believe that the world "just happened", other people might believe something different, and I'm sure many atheists don't even have a clear opinion about how this happened at all.

 

anyway, why do you find it irritating?

Edited by Igloo
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Christine

Christine

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And the only thing we atheists definitely have in common is the abscence of a belief in any god.

 

Exactly. I don't know how the world was formed and I don't care. It happened billions of years ago and I don't need to seek any explanations in order to find meaning in my life in 2010.

 

God is no explanation for the creation of the universe because it begs the question of who created god. It's a circular and useless argument and one that doesn't even merit entertainment as far as I'm concerned.

 

I have no fear of god and I don't cling to atheism. I was not even raised with the concept of theism so it's foreign to me. If you don't train children to believe in god they will naturally be atheists. A belief in god has to be instilled. Without it you will have absence of belief and that's the only thing an atheist claims.

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Ruth

Ruth

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Exactly. I don't know how the world was formed and I don't care. It happened billions of years ago and I don't need to seek any explanations in order to find meaning in my life in 2010.

 

God is no explanation for the creation of the universe because it begs the question of who created god. It's a circular and useless argument and one that doesn't even merit entertainment as far as I'm concerned.

 

I have no fear of god and I don't cling to atheism. I was not even raised with the concept of theism so it's foreign to me. If you don't train children to believe in god they will naturally be atheists. A belief in god has to be instilled. Without it you will have absence of belief and that's the only thing an atheist claims.

 

 

I wonder if there are adults who were unexposed to any supernatural belief system but who were 'born again' or converted into a world faith?

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sariflor

sariflor

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I'm with Freddie on this one- atheism isn't any more logical or obvious than religious faith- in my opinion it takes a large amount of credulity to believe the world "just happened"- I find atheists insistance that theirs is not a position of faith quite irritating- of course it is!

 

I just saw this :teehee:. I don't think that what you say there is right. You say that atheists believe that the world just happened, but that is not what makes an atheist. An atheist merely doesn't believe in a god. Trying to fill the gap of what you don't know with what idea suits you is what faith does.

Atheism just ignores it and waits for a logical, scientific explanation. When it comes, if it comes, good. If it doesn't come in my lifetime, I will be equally happy, but it will certainly not make me believe in a god just because I don't know what happened.

I don't need to know how the world started in order to make sense of my life, I just don't. It would be interesting to know but is by no means essential to my wellbeing.

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FREDDIESDOUBLE

FREDDIESDOUBLE

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I just saw this :teehee:. I don't think that what you say there is right. You say that atheists believe that the world just happened, but that is not what makes an atheist. An atheist merely doesn't believe in a god. Trying to fill the gap of what you don't know with what idea suits you is what faith does.

Atheism just ignores it and waits for a logical, scientific explanation. When it comes, if it comes, good. If it doesn't come in my lifetime, I will be equally happy, but it will certainly not make me believe in a god just because I don't know what happened.

I don't need to know how the world started in order to make sense of my life, I just don't. It would be interesting to know but is by no means essential to my wellbeing.

 

But surely if we are talking science you need to go back to basics and understand (if we can) how the earth was made in order to get the the present day ....

 

The whole issue for me is ... its just so improbable for life to have "just happened' but not impossible.

 

Even basic principles .. energy cannot be created not destroyed ... I struggle to think our "energy" just goes and then nothing ...

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Naectegale

Naectegale

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But surely if we are talking science you need to go back to basics and understand (if we can) how the earth was made in order to get the the present day ....

 

The whole issue for me is ... its just so improbable for life to have "just happened' but not impossible.

 

Even basic principles .. energy cannot be created not destroyed ... I struggle to think our "energy" just goes and then nothing ...

 

you miss the point, Freddie :wink2: Of course it would be good to know for sure about the universe, but that's not the point. The point is there is no god, however the universe came into being it was not a god becasue there isnt one. There will be an explanation, we may never know what it is, but there is no god. The idea of god has been invented by man to fill in the gaps in our knowledge, becasue we don't like to admit we don't know, but that doesn't make him real :thumb_yello:

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Niki27

Niki27

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Science and belief do not exclude each other.

Many scientists believe in God, or something "superior".

And real scientists do not exclude any explaination before it can be scientifically ruled out.

I don't really believe in God, although I believe in many of the virtues taught by religions, which are universal, and many atheists also believe in. But as long as science can't proove for sure there is no such thing as a God, stating there is none is just an assumption, just like stating there's one. So everybody's wrong, somehow :naughty:

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sariflor

sariflor

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Science and belief do not exclude each other.

Many scientists believe in God, or something "superior".

And real scientists do not exclude any explaination before it can be scientifically ruled out.

I don't really believe in God, although I believe in many of the virtues taught by religions, which are universal, and many atheists also believe in. But as long as science can't proove for sure there is no such thing as a God, stating there is none is just an assumption, just like stating there's one. So everybody's wrong, somehow :naughty:

 

That's not how things work, Sophie :roftl:. You don't prove the absence of something, you need to prove the existence of it.

And not being able to prove existance, is pretty much already a proof that something does not exist :naughty:.

Any scientist worth their salt will never accept that you need to prove the absence of something, because that is not possible if that something doesn't exist. It's the other way around.

What I do agree with you in, is that many religions have principles that are ottherwise useful, and can be taken out of the religious context totally. But these are ethical values, and they were that before they were used in the religions's agendas.

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