82, rue des Martyrs (Karen) - Discussion

[Gatagordinha]

Elle Me Dit and Karen are just something extra he's putting together. Like a seperate project really. I seriously doubt, also, that Weather (I'd sooner call it that than BIOTW) will be a single from the album. I don't think he'll unveil the first single until he's ready to release it, after all, he won't want his single all over the internet for weeks (although unfortunately, that happened with WAG, but I think he's learned his lesson)

The fact is, what we've heard is just the tip of the iceberg with regards to the new music from Mika. We have loads more to come yet, so if any of the new songs are not to a fan's taste, it doesn't matter. We can't like everything he does, and we shouldn't really expect to do so

I could live a long time without hearing Big Girl, BIOTG, and Rain, so I don't go mad for everything he writes either.

 

 

Well said. A balanced view, which I'm sure a lot of us share.

[Marilyn Mastin]

Well said. A balanced view, which I'm sure a lot of us share.

Thanks for saying that Rach. I think also what we should remember is that he's said the songs on the album will all be different. One has even got a rapper on it. As for the French songs, I think we Brits and English speaking countries have been spoilt by songs, generally coming out in English. Which means that France, Belgium, Italy, Spain, etc have not really had any songs in their own languages from the big pop stars of the moment. Even The Eurovision Song Contest is all in English!

Mika has been called The Pied Piper of Pop, and what he's done is very Pied Piperish to me. If EMD is a huge hit, what's the betting that Gaga or KP, or one of the other big names decides to do a song in French? I bet they would. so all the ppl who think Mika is no longer a trendsetter, or is not being bold anymore, in my humble opinion, they're wrong.

Oh... and btw, if EMD, or Karen had been France's song in the Eurovision Song Contest, France would have won it hands down!

[macboll]

Ok, so I've given this another listen and I have some opinions .

I think that I would actually really like this songs if it was in English. Or a language that Mika didn't sound (in my opinion) like a SL'er doing. For me it's his French that ruins it.

I'm not criticising his French, but I just find that it doesn't quite flow or roll off his tongue, he sounds like he has an accent and like it's not coming out properly and naturally, and that ruins it for me

If it was in English, it would sound better in my opinion. Not because it's English but because it would sound like the language comes naturally to him.

I do actually quite like the beat and mellody of the chorus if I ignore this, but sadly I can't dissociate them enough for me to actually properly like the song. It's like I can't get past that 70/30% of like/dislike.

 

As a native French speaker, I can swear his French was flawless (no grammatical mistakes) and his accent was perfect (no foreign accent). Did you expect an accent from Marseille or Québec? (just kidding )

[willywonka]

Ok, so I've given this another listen and I have some opinions .

I think that I would actually really like this songs if it was in English. Or a language that Mika didn't sound (in my opinion) like a SL'er doing. For me it's his French that ruins it.

I'm not criticising his French, but I just find that it doesn't quite flow or roll off his tongue, he sounds like he has an accent and like it's not coming out properly and naturally, and that ruins it for me

If it was in English, it would sound better in my opinion. Not because it's English but because it would sound like the language comes naturally to him.

I do actually quite like the beat and mellody of the chorus if I ignore this, but sadly I can't dissociate them enough for me to actually properly like the song. It's like I can't get past that 70/30% of like/dislike.

 

What's that, mujer????

[suzie]

What's that, mujer????

 

Second Languager, I think....though not sure if that word exists.

[Pamette]

As a native French speaker, I can swear his French was flawless (no grammatical mistakes) and his accent was perfect (no foreign accent). Did you expect an accent from Marseille or Québec? (just kidding )

 

+ 1

 

Mika has never sounded British or American or Mexican when he speaks French. He makes some mistakes when he speaks but his accent is perfect. Some people thinks he's French.

 

He sings the song like a French man would do. Don't ask him to be more French than the French.

 

Trust me. We don't say that to be nice with him. In Compiègne, he made a big mistake in French ("il faut que je fais" instead of "il faut que je fasse") and the audience (and i) corrected him saying "fasse". He heard it.

Edited July 12, 2011 by Pamette

[willywonka]

Second Languager, I think....though not sure if that word exists.

 

[sariflor]

As a native French speaker, I can swear his French was flawless (no grammatical mistakes) and his accent was perfect (no foreign accent). Did you expect an accent from Marseille or Québec? (just kidding )

 

Well, if you say that he doesn't have an accent I'm gonna have to take your word for it but it still sounds to me like it's not coming out naturally, like it's forced.

And nobody can deny that it's not the case, when he had to stop speaking French and start speaking English cause he couldn't express himself properly

 

Maybe that is what I am getting when he sings? That it's just not flowing well?

[suzie]

Mika has never sounded British or American or Mexican when he speaks French. He makes some mistakes when he speaks but his accent is perfect. Some people thinks he's French.

I think he has a good ear to imitate accents - it must come from his musical talent.

 

I love it when he speaks German or Italian, for example, although I am sure that he has a noticeable accent in those languages. Still, he just gets the rhythm and the sound somehow.

 

I'd like to hear him sing some German songs one day, too, though probably covers. I think some German language songs from the 1930s would really suit his voice

Edited July 12, 2011 by suzie

[macboll]

Well, if you say that he doesn't have an accent I'm gonna have to take your word for it but it still sounds to me like it's not coming out naturally, like it's forced.

 

 

And nobody can deny that it's not the case, when he had to stop speaking French and start speaking English cause he couldn't express himself properly

 

Maybe that is what I am getting when he sings? That it's just not flowing well?

 

I get your point. When I'm tired or stressed, I prefer to stick to my mother tongue. My English does not flow well or I get a strong French accent

[sariflor]

Second Languager, I think....though not sure if that word exists.

 

I made it up Just to express myself. Instead of saying ESL (english as a second language) which is how I know the word, I said just SL

 

 

+ 1

 

Mika has never sounded British or American or Mexican when he speaks French. He makes some mistakes when he speaks but his accent is perfect. Some people thinks he's French.

 

He sings the song like a French man would do. Don't ask him to be more French than the French.

 

Trust me. We don't say that to be nice with him. In Compiègne, he made a big mistake in French ("il faut que je fais" instead of "il faut que je fasse") and the audience (and i) corrected him saying "fasse". He heard it.

 

Ok, so he doesn't sound British or American, and his accent is great, but if he makes mistakes, like you just said he does, then surely he doesn't speak like a native??

 

He doesn't make mistakes when he speaks English, and he is never short of a word to say, or unable to express himself. In fact quite the opposite: he's very wordy, and well spoken.

 

I am not trying to bash Mika's French here at all; I know that he speaks well, and because he learnt the language at an early age he has a good accent and pronunciation. My point is that he does not speak like a native, and in my opinion that makes the singing sound weird and a bit wrong.

I can see a huge difference between his singing in English and in French, and that will always be the case unless he got to native level in French like he has in English.

 

[macboll]

@ Sariflor: unfortunately as French grammar is very difficult, many French do that mistake 'il faut que je fais' instead of 'il faut que je fasse ' too. 'fasse ' is the present subjonctive tense.

[willywonka]

I made it up Just to express myself. Instead of saying ESL (english as a second language) which is how I know the word, I said just SL

 

[/color]

 

You enjoy confusing us, the ESLrs, dontcha???

 

[suzie]

Sorry but what are we trying to prove here?

Mika's mother tongue is English but he must have been brought up speaking both languages as a child so his French is almost perfect.

 

If he needed a songwriter to help him with the French lyrics though, it means that he is unsure about the proper use of the language and is unable to express the little nuances. That's a fact. However, it is reassuring that the French songs work for native speakers so he did not record them in vein.

I mean, I can imagine French speakers who have only heard someone sing their own songs in English so far to be taken aback a bit by the use of the language if suddenly everything is in their mother tongue. It does not seem to have happened in Mika's case, so that's cool. Let's see how Mika's album sales will go in France with the bonus tracks.

PS: any news on chart info for EMD?

[sariflor]

 

 

 

I get your point. When I'm tired or stressed, I prefer to stick to my mother tongue. My English does not flow well or I get a strong French accent

Yes, I have the same If I'm really tired, I start making mistakes and sounding really wrong

[sariflor]

Sorry but what are we trying to prove here?

Mika's mother tongue is English but he must have been brought up speaking both languages as a child so his French is almost perfect.

 

If he needed a songwriter to help him with the French lyrics though, it means that he is unsure about the proper use of the language and is unable to express the little nuances. That's a fact. However, it is reassuring that the French songs work for native speakers so he did not record them in vein.

I mean, I can imagine French speakers who have only heard someone sing their own songs in English so far to be taken aback a bit by the use of the language if suddenly everything is in their mother tongue. It does not seem to have happened in Mika's case, so that's cool. Let's see how Mika's album sales will go in France with the bonus tracks.

PS: any news on chart info for EMD?

 

 

I'm not trying to prove anything. Just to substantiate my point that one of the reasons why this song doesn't do it for me is that I find that he sounds a bit unnatural singing in French, that's all.

And because a few people keep posting that 'French is his mother tongue' (not in this latest discussion, but I saw it the other day on a gig report) and that he speaks it like a native, I made the point that this was not the case, so it's possibly the reason why I find that he doesn't sound as natural singing in French as he does in English

[ilseh1983]

i just want to say i really like/love this song, when i listen i get

[Pamette]

My point is that he does not speak like a native, and in my opinion that makes the singing sound weird and a bit wrong.

I can see a huge difference between his singing in English and in French, and that will always be the case unless he got to native level in French like he has in English.

 

[/color]

 

Of course, there's a difference between his singing in French and in English. It's not the same language. It's like Céline Dion. She sounds different when she sings in English.

 

I can tell you that the singing doesn't sound weird for French people. If i say, "i found his singing weird when he sings in English", how would you react? That's the point.

And i agree with Macboll. Every French makes mistakes because French language is a hard language to learn even for French people. That doesn't mean that we sound weird.

 

I agree with every word Suzie wrote.

[basicamenteyo]

Yes, I have the same If I'm really tired, I start making mistakes and sounding really wrong

 

You are a good example of ESL or SSL (S as Spanish), but I´m not sure about how many years you are living in UK, but still, you learnt Spanish (or catalán) at first, and then needed to change to English. Which is more difficult now?? you still "think" in Spanish?? Though it´s not the same as with Mika, cause even though he lived in Paris and stuff, his family was an english speakers family, and I assume he just used french with friends and at school, which is not the same as using it with family and stuff...

 

I don´t think Mika is fluent in french. Many people here (french-speakers) have told me he is quite "weird" but with a good accent. He needed help to write the songs, and as you said, he needed to express himself in english, so, it´s quite clear it´s not fluent. I think it´s the same when I speak valenciano, I can do it, of course, but my mind, even if I´m speaking in valenciano, if I need to "think" something properly, I do it in Spanish, no matter if I need to explain it in valenciano later, my mind changes automatically the language... it didn´t happen to my parents, they would thought in valenciano... so I guess, that even we can speak lots of languages, we "think" just in one, and clearly Mika thinks in english.

[Pamette]

his family was an english speakers family, and I assume he just used french with friends and at school, which is not the same as using it with family and stuff...

 

In an interview, he talked about a trip he did in China when he was very young and he said something in French (i don't remember what). He explained it in English to the journalists and said he spoke in French with his mum. So, it means that when he was in France, even his family spoke to him in French.

 

When they left France, the family started to speak to him in English. That's why, sometimes, he makes mistakes. A 8 year old French boy makes a lot of mistakes because they didn't learn the rules. Don't expect him to know the rules. And we all know that now, he doesn't speak in French anymore expect if someone talk to him in that language.

 

I'm fed up of having the same conversation than 4 years ago. So ok, Mika doesn't know how to speak French and he should not try to sing in French because it doesn't do it well.

[basicamenteyo]

In an interview, he talked about a trip he did in China when he was very young and he said something in French (i don't remember what). He explained it in English to the journalists and said he spoke in French with his mum. So, it means that when he was in France, even his family spoke to him in French.

 

When they left France, the family started to speak to him in English. That's why, sometimes, he makes mistakes. A 8 year old French boy makes a lot of mistakes because they didn't learn the rules. Don't expect him to know the rules. And we all know that now, he doesn't speak in French anymore expect if someone talk to him in that language.

 

I'm fed up of having the same conversation than 4 years ago. So ok, Mika doesn't know how to speak French and he should not try to sing in French because it doesn't do it well.

 

No one says he can´t speak french, but it´s obvious that "now" his french is not fluent... why deny that?? I don´t know how his life was when he was 8 years and did a trip to China... maybe those days he was fluent (as 8 yo kids are) but if when he gets nervous, he needs to speak english, it shows that he is an english speaker. Mika is good with accents. When he "speaks" spanish he does it really fine,and other people from other countries say the same with their languages. He is good at french? of course he is. He learnt that language as a kid!!! But I will take Mika´s words as what they are: "Mika´s words". I´m not sure if an American family would speak french to the kids even if they lived in Paris. I have a friend who went to live to UK when her daughter was a 2 yo girl, and still he talked to her in Spanish at home, and for what I´ve known of other people moving, they keep the mother tongue at home. He said he spoke french at home when kid? ok, he also said he had a dog called Gertrude, so....

 

Anyway, we can´t change the fact that for many of us, it´s odd to hear him singing in french. Though I must admit, that Karen is one of my favorites songs now. I´m not an english speaker,and if I don´t search the lyrics, I usually don´t understand what he says in his english songs, so, it´s not about "understanding" or not what he says.

[Christine]

He said he spoke french at home when kid? ok, he also said he had a dog called Gertrude, so....

 

Yes I am with you there

 

In the very early days I believed that French was Mika's mother tongue because I thought he grew up with a Franco-Lebanese family and probably only heard some English from his father as often happens in Canada when people have one parent from Italy or Greece or wherever. In those cases the children are 100% anglophone but they pick up a bit of their parent's language.

 

But Mika's mother is American. You can hear it in her French accent.

 

Obviously anything is possible and I'm not going to say what went on in their family, especially when he was a child. But a group of us spent hours with them and never noticed them speaking French to one another. Maybe it changes when they are in a French environment and a lot of people around them are speaking French, I don't know. But I just find it very difficult to imagine that when Mika was 2 or 3 years old and acquiring language that his American parents were speaking to him exclusively in French.

[sariflor]

In an interview, he talked about a trip he did in China when he was very young and he said something in French (i don't remember what). He explained it in English to the journalists and said he spoke in French with his mum. So, it means that when he was in France, even his family spoke to him in French.

 

When they left France, the family started to speak to him in English. That's why, sometimes, he makes mistakes. A 8 year old French boy makes a lot of mistakes because they didn't learn the rules. Don't expect him to know the rules. And we all know that now, he doesn't speak in French anymore expect if someone talk to him in that language.

 

I'm fed up of having the same conversation than 4 years ago. So ok, Mika doesn't know how to speak French and he should not try to sing in French because it doesn't do it well.

 

Ah, but I am not saying that he should not sing in French! When did I say that? All I said is that for me, this is the main reason why this song doesn't do the trick. I wouldn't dare say that he should sing in this or that... Only saying how it works for me.

 

On the whole 'speaking French to the family' issue....well, as neither of us were really there, we can't know for sure (other than Mika's word) but it has to be said that he has told porkies many times, about plenty of things, and that personally I would take that (as many other things he says) with a pinch of salt.

 

Plus, this is totally hypothetical and pointless speculation, but have you ever been in that situation? Speaking to someone in one language for a number of years and then just switching? Cause in my experience, it doesn't quite work like that. If you're used to speaking in one language to someone, that is what you use.

 

Which would mean that it would have been really odd for Mika's family to speak French for many years and then switch to English when they moved here.

Plus, French is neither Mama nor Papa P's mother tongue either, so that would be hugely unnatural IMO (if they spoke French to their kids).

 

When we lived abroad, as Rosa mentioned, my parents still spoke Catalan to us at home, and we just spoke Dutch or English or Spanish at school and with friends, etc, depending on where we were living at the time.

 

Anyway-it's all pointless discussion I guess but I personally would not really think that the Pennimans did really communicate in French while they lived in Paris. My opinion based on what I see now, how they all relate to English and French, and what they speak to eachother.

 

 

ANYWAY to recap- I never said that he shouldn't sing in French! He can sing in Russian if he likes; It will just mean that 'me personally' will find that he doesn't sound natural and for that reason I can't like the songs as much.

 

I just happen to have a thing about people singing in a different language to their own, it's not just Mika. I feel the same when I listen to a Catalan band singing in Spanish or English, or a Spanish artist singing English, etc...

Unless they are truly bilingual or native level speakers, to me it sounds wrong, no matter how good their English is. I can't help it.

[basicamenteyo]

Yes I am with you there

 

In the very early days I believed that French was Mika's mother tongue because I thought he grew up with a Franco-Lebanese family and probably only heard some English from his father as often happens in Canada when people have one parent from Italy or Greece or wherever. In those cases the children are 100% anglophone but they pick up a bit of their parent's language.

 

But Mika's mother is American. You can hear it in her French accent.

 

Obviously anything is possible and I'm not going to say what went on in their family, especially when he was a child. But a group of us spent hours with them and never noticed them speaking French to one another. Maybe it changes when they are in a French environment and a lot of people around them are speaking French, I don't know. But I just find it very difficult to imagine that when Mika was 2 or 3 years old and acquiring language that his American parents were speaking to him exclusively in French.

 

I am talking about me. My parents spoke "valenciano" at home when I was little, (among them, I mean, they spoke in spanish when they talked to me) so I learnt that language due to listen to it every day. And even though I can speak it fluently, it´s not my language, I tried to speak valenciano to my son when he was born, and I just couldn´t!!! I felt it unnatural!!! I still use that language to talk to people who speaks that, but I think in Spanish and I can´t imagine talking in english to my son. Not even if I move to Mika´s bassement!! When you have kids you want the best for them, and thinking about it, if they are going to grow up in Paris, they will learn french, so, the most clever thing to do, is to speak to them in english, which is your mother tongue, and besides, it makes kids learn two languages at once.

 

I guess we will never know how were things in Mika´s childhood, but even if he would spoke french at home, he almost forgot it when he became an adult

[Christine]

I still use that language to talk to people who speaks that, but I think in Spanish and I can´t imagine talking in english to my son. Not even if I move to Mika´s bassement!!