Pascale Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 (edited) There is a recurring joke on the show Good Wife where one of the judges in a courtroom interrupts the solicitors every time they make an argument in order to clarify with them that it is just their opinion. She gets annoyed with them and rules against them unless they pander to her by prefacing every argument with "In my opinion, your honour...". This is a joke because it's absurd. It should go without saying that anything you present in order to persuade people of your point of view is your opinion. MFC is not a court of law but it's also not kindergarten and it's not unreasonable to expect other adults to be familiar with how expressing one's opinion works on a forum. If I say what I think, it is OBVIOUSLY my opinion. What's more people who are reading it already know this because they love to point it out by saying "it's ONLY your opinion". As if the very act of asserting what one thinks without saying "in my opinion" somehow invalidates that opinion and it needs to be publicly dismissed so no one listens to it. I don't understand why anyone should have to engage in this phony social ritual that does not exist in real life (not in my world anyway) just to sort of humble themselves before other posters on the forum. Why shouldn't anyone stand up for their opinion instead of apologizing in advance for even having one? If you're not confident in what you're saying then why say it at all? Sure truth is not unchanging. But that doesn't mean we can't discuss what is true or untrue in a given moment. As I said if BBC1 starts playing tracks from this album then I will surely be wrong in what I said. Until that time it is an objective and provable fact that the album is not being played on BBC1, it's not simply my opinion. Hmm, i agree with a lot of what you're saying. But i wouldn't call thinking about how you phrase things (especially when you're writing instead of talking) a phony social ritual. I'm aware that's not exactly what you've said and of course it's useless to add IMO every time you open your mouth or pick up your pen. But there's a balance between doing that and not caring at all if you're antagonizing or triggering discussion partners with the words you're using. I'm a absolute lover of freedom of speech. I think I would go further than most (real, not tv) judges in allowing people to voice their opinions. I love a sense of humour and self spot and I personally don't think a bit of well formulated provoking will harm anyone. But i think it's sensible to at least be aware of the effects of the way you say things and to consider whether you want to have a discussion with a bit of effort (from both sides) to stay in that discussion or if you just want to state your opinion (or the facts). At least if you like to discuss things which you obviously do and if you don't want be upset or angry yourself by reactions to your posts. So please go on writing honestly, frankly and clearly. It's refreshing. I only think it would be a shame if you (or I or anyone else) withdraw out of (potentially) interesting discussions about what's true or untrue in Mikaworld because they feel attacked or unsafe etc. Especially since i've not read any post lately that crossed any -social- border (IMO ) Edited July 29, 2015 by Pascale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pascale Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 suddenly I feel very old I think I'm about your age but i hadn't heard from him in 2010 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarolinaAsh Posted July 29, 2015 Share Posted July 29, 2015 Pretty much every UK artist comes to Scotland to promote their music; we get people like One Direction and Take That. We also get American artists such as Taylor Swift and Ariana Grande. Basically, we get everybody except Mika, which I find a bit unfair. The really famous artists tend to use the Hydro Arena for their concerts (that's the biggest arena in Glasgow, with nearly 14,000 seats). However, I don't think Mika would go there because he's not as well known here as he used to be. I know he did a show in Edinburgh in around 2010 but that was before I'd heard of him. But I know there are a lot of other Scottish people who would love to see him here again. The London gig is great for those who can attend, and I'm looking forward to reading gig reports. But I'm seriously considering starting a petition for more UK dates. I know a lot of people would appreciate them. I may not be a UK-ian but I'll sign yours if you sign the one I'll make for more and varied US gigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 This has been madly enlightening just now, and makes me wanna go even more. Alas, flight costs still are far too high. (Sorry but, like Mika, I like to eat.) I'll just keep praying for a return to the states/Canada in early 2016. That's unfortunate but it's good that you're sensible! NA dates will be much cheaper and you'll have time to saved up. Your time will come. But i wouldn't call thinking about how you phrase things (especially when you're writing instead of talking) a phony social ritual. I'm aware that's not exactly what you've said and of course it's useless to add IMO every time you open your mouth or pick up your pen. But this is all I was referring to when responding to your comment on me being direct. I don't support being direct because I want to be provocative and abhor censorship. I think everyone should be direct and clear because expecting people to read between the lines and acting passive aggressively instead of saying what you mean is no way for adults to communicate with each other, especially in writing. Men do not communicate this way and no one expects them to. No one expects me to not assert myself in any other area of my life. I have been praised for my written communication style at work. I have avoided problems for myself and my company by laying things out clearly in writing so it can't be disputed later. I am not interested in reverting back to some self-deprecating and deferential teenage girl style of writing to appease a few people on a message board who have made it very clear they don't respect what I have to say anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pascale Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 But this is all I was referring to when responding to your comment on me being direct. I don't support being direct because I want to be provocative and abhor censorship. I think everyone should be direct and clear because expecting people to read between the lines and acting passive aggressively instead of saying what you mean is no way for adults to communicate with each other, especially in writing. Men do not communicate this way and no one expects them to. No one expects me to not assert myself in any other area of my life. I have been praised for my written communication style at work. I have avoided problems for myself and my company by laying things out clearly in writing so it can't be disputed later. I am not interested in reverting back to some self-deprecating and deferential teenage girl style of writing to appease a few people on a message board who have made it very clear they don't respect what I have to say anyway. Okay, point taken. I've left out some superfluous "I think" and "I guess" in my recent posts as a result of this discussion, so i'm happy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Okay, point taken. I've left out some superfluous "I think" and "I guess" in my recent posts as a result of this discussion, so i'm happy. Haha good for you! Naomi Wolf (longtime feminist writer) has started a controversy this past week about how some young women's speech patterns today in North America are undermining their ability to be taken seriously and hurting their careers etc. There are some counterarguments against women modifying their speech: it is just a way to silence women's voices and society should change its attitude (which I don't agree with), and these speech patterns irritate older generations simply because they are different and eventually they will be overruled by younger women's habits (I think this is possibly true). http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/24/vocal-fry-strong-female-voice Wolf talks about how these speech patterns weaken their written essays and exams: Style is content, as any writing teacher knows. Run-ons and “non-committal-ness” dilute many young women’s advocacy powers and thus their written authority. Many young women have learned not to go too far out on a limb with their voiced opinions; but the dilution of “voice” and the muddying of logic caused by run-on sentences in speech can undermine the power of their written thought processes and weaken their marshalling of evidence in an argument. At Oxford University young women consistently get 5% to 10% fewer first-class degrees in English – and the exams are graded blindly. The reasons? Even the most brilliant tend to avoid strong declarative sentences and to organise their arguments less forcefully. Elleke Boehmer, an Oxford English professor, says: “I often observe my female students’ silence and lack of confidence in class with concern. How anxious they are about coming forward to express an opinion, to risk a point of view, so often letting the male students speak first and second and even third. And in this way they lose out in the discussions that are going to help them hone their pitch, write winning essays, secure the out-and-out firsts that male students in Humanities subjects still are securing in far greater numbers, proportionately, than they are.” She also talks about how some of these speech habits are a misguided attempt to placate others: No one has ever taught her techniques to refuse that inevitable interruption. “I am aware that I fill my sentences with question marks,” said a twentysomething who works in a research firm. “We do it when we speak to older people or people we see as authorities. It is to placate them. We don’t do it so much when we are by ourselves.” Surely we older feminists have not completed our tasks if no one has taught this young woman that it was not her job to placate her elders. You can make an argument I suppose that MFC is not uni or the workplace and coming across as "polite" is more important than getting your ideas across. But I still think when someone feels the need to point out that what you're saying is "only" your opinion they are not just reacting to a perceived rudeness but they want to make sure no one listens to you because they don't agree with your opinion. As far as I'm concerned the rude behaviour in this scenario is not making a strong declaration about what you think but in telling someone that it's "only" their opinion. Because it strongly implies that the opinion doesn't have any merit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenagedreamer98 Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 I may not be a UK-ian but I'll sign yours if you sign the one I'll make for more and varied US gigs. Deal! Maybe I'll start a new thread for my petition. Although, even if I make one, I'm not sure that it'll make that big a difference. PS: I'm loving your sig pic! Mika looks kinda naughty there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarolinaAsh Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Deal! Maybe I'll start a new thread for my petition. Although, even if I make one, I'm not sure that it'll make that big a difference. PS: I'm loving your sig pic! Mika looks kinda naughty there... Naughty dirty snarky Mika is my favorite. When I hear Grace Kelly I always think no Mika, no, for you there is no such thing as too dirty or too flirty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pascale Posted July 30, 2015 Share Posted July 30, 2015 Haha good for you! Naomi Wolf (longtime feminist writer) has started a controversy this past week about how some young women's speech patterns today in North America are undermining their ability to be taken seriously and hurting their careers etc. There are some counterarguments against women modifying their speech: it is just a way to silence women's voices and society should change its attitude (which I don't agree with), and these speech patterns irritate older generations simply because they are different and eventually they will be overruled by younger women's habits (I think this is possibly true). http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/24/vocal-fry-strong-female-voice Wolf talks about how these speech patterns weaken their written essays and exams: She also talks about how some of these speech habits are a misguided attempt to placate others: You can make an argument I suppose that MFC is not uni or the workplace and coming across as "polite" is more important than getting your ideas across. But I still think when someone feels the need to point out that what you're saying is "only" your opinion they are not just reacting to a perceived rudeness but they want to make sure no one listens to you because they don't agree with your opinion. As far as I'm concerned the rude behaviour in this scenario is not making a strong declaration about what you think but in telling someone that it's "only" their opinion. Because it strongly implies that the opinion doesn't have any merit. Interesting stuff. There's certainly much more to say about this but I'm in travel stress. Tomorrow i'm leaving to Belgium for the "Lokerse Feesten" and after that France. Going camping for about two weeks probably with little internet connections. So I'll catch up with woman's speech patterns, the balance between "politeness" and "directness" and all Mika's tweets in the second half of august. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarolinaAsh Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Interesting stuff. There's certainly much more to say about this but I'm in travel stress. Tomorrow i'm leaving to Belgium for the "Lokerse Feesten" and after that France. Going camping for about two weeks probably with little internet connections. So I'll catch up with woman's speech patterns, the balance between "politeness" and "directness" and all Mika's tweets in the second half of august. Good luck with that, all of that I mean. The travel and the catching up. (ick CAMPING. yuck.) I hope you have great weather. It always rains, and rains, and rains, and rains when I go camping. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 Tomorrow i'm leaving to Belgium for the "Lokerse Feesten" and after that France. Going camping for about two weeks probably with little internet connections. So I'll catch up with woman's speech patterns, the balance between "politeness" and "directness" and all Mika's tweets in the second half of august. Really hope to read your first gig report when you come back! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAK1 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Deal! Maybe I'll start a new thread for my petition. Although, even if I make one, I'm not sure that it'll make that big a difference. PS: I'm loving your sig pic! Mika looks kinda naughty there... Preaching to the choir here sister. Over the last year, I have asked on FB, and tweeted Mika himself about UK dates. On FB, TM said announcements would be soon, then the London gig was announced, I stupidly assumed others would follow in the next week or so, yet nothing since. And they have clammed up to my subsequent requests about any UK gigs since. Despite Mika saying on Jo Whileys show, that a bunch of gigs would be announced for the UK. I am trying my best to be positive about this, but it feels like he has given up on doing a UK tour as such, despite mine and quite a few other people I have seen in the last week, asking for more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn Mastin Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 (edited) This is what I mean when I say he's always so vague. I understand that certain things take time to sort out, but a bit of an indication that he has something to announce, wouldn't go amiss. He must realise that the UK is eager for some gigs, or news of projects here, like the radio thing he mentioned. People from UK have told him so on Twitter. What about a little video message for the UK from Mika? Nothing long, just about a minute, to tell us he's announcing something soon? I don't think that's a lot to ask. Edited August 2, 2015 by Marilyn Mastin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellody Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I think if he was able to announce something, he would. From one of the interviews the way i understood it was that he'd love to do more uk dates (i think it was when he was asked about scottish dates), it was something like "i hope". But if he doesn't get the offer to do any except london, then of course he can't. The "i hope" sounded to me like there isn't much of a chance for any more gigs than london. Tho ofc i agree a bunch of uk dates would be nice, but i'm not very optimistic about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenagedreamer98 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Preaching to the choir here sister. Over the last year, I have asked on FB, and tweeted Mika himself about UK dates. On FB, TM said announcements would be soon, then the London gig was announced, I stupidly assumed others would follow in the next week or so, yet nothing since. And they have clammed up to my subsequent requests about any UK gigs since. Despite Mika saying on Jo Whileys show, that a bunch of gigs would be announced for the UK. I am trying my best to be positive about this, but it feels like he has given up on doing a UK tour as such, despite mine and quite a few other people I have seen in the last week, asking for more. This is what I mean when I say he's always so vague. I understand that certain things take time to sort out, but a bit of an indication that he has something to announce, wouldn't go amiss. He must realise that the UK is eager for some gigs, or news of projects here, like the radio thing he mentioned. People from UK have told him so on Twitter. What about a little video message for the UK from Mika? Nothing long, just about a minute, to tell us he's announcing something soon? I don't think that's a lot to ask. I think if he was able to announce something, he would. From one of the interviews the way i understood it was that he'd love to do more uk dates (i think it was when he was asked about scottish dates), it was something like "i hope". But if he doesn't get the offer to do any except london, then of course he can't. The "i hope" sounded to me like there isn't much of a chance for any more gigs than london. Tho ofc i agree a bunch of uk dates would be nice, but i'm not very optimistic about that. Hmm. Reading all your thoughts, it seems that none of us are that optimistic about more UK dates. Yet we all know that lots of people would appreciate them. I know the London gig will be fantastic and I can't wait to hear about it, but for some people it is a little far to travel (especially if they have work or live further north). Had the gig been on the Saturday, I could maybe have managed to travel down. But I have college on Mondays, so I would be in a terrible rush to get back on the Sunday night. I would love there to be even just a couple more dates for the UK, even if it turned out I couldn't go to them either. It would give lots of people around the UK a chance to see Mika. There are plenty of small venues he could do, and he could go to the other major cities like Manchester, Newcastle and Glasgow. (Of course if he did a Glasgow date, I would go if at all possible! It is my ambition to see him live.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I don't hold out much hope for any more UK gigs, as I don't think he has even sold out the Adelphi gig. I think most of the UK has forgotten he even exists. Our best hope is that something happens to get him some attention again - music used in an advert, appearance on a chat show - and then maybe he could do a couple of small venues. They could be marketed as intimate exclusive gigs so selling a few hundred tickets wouldn't be seen as a failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAK1 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I think if he was able to announce something, he would. From one of the interviews the way i understood it was that he'd love to do more uk dates (i think it was when he was asked about scottish dates), it was something like "i hope". But if he doesn't get the offer to do any except london, then of course he can't. The "i hope" sounded to me like there isn't much of a chance for any more gigs than london. Tho ofc i agree a bunch of uk dates would be nice, but i'm not very optimistic about that. I don't get this 'getting an offer' thing, for actual tour dates. Festivals yes, as the organisers of them pick line ups they think will fit their aesthetic. But an artists own tour is organised by a promoter who books into available venues that are free for the dates that the artist wants to tour. So for a UK tour, he would have someone organise that for him, the venues don't come to him to play there. I don't know why this isn't happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I don't get this 'getting an offer' thing, for actual tour dates. Festivals yes, as the organisers of them pick line ups they think will fit their aesthetic. But an artists own tour is organised by a promoter who books into available venues that are free for the dates that the artist wants to tour. So for a UK tour, he would have someone organise that for him, the venues don't come to him to play there. I don't know why this isn't happening. Because the promoter would want to make a profit - they wouldn't do that with an artist who doesn't sell tickets 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAK1 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I don't hold out much hope for any more UK gigs, as I don't think he has even sold out the Adelphi gig. I think most of the UK has forgotten he even exists. Our best hope is that something happens to get him some attention again - music used in an advert, appearance on a chat show - and then maybe he could do a couple of small venues. They could be marketed as intimate exclusive gigs so selling a few hundred tickets wouldn't be seen as a failure. That is what I hope too. I tweeted him a few days ago about maybe approaching Moles Club in Bath, which is a popular gig venue in the South West, and it is re opening after being refurbished after a fire late last year. In the past it has seen early gigs form many famous artists like Oasis, Human League to name a couple. It is a lovely intimate venue, and has a great name in the business. I think it would be a great place for him to play, to get his name back in the public eye again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAK1 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Because the promoter would want to make a profit - they wouldn't do that with an artist who doesn't sell tickets They could with smaller intimate venues, and if he really wants to have some sort of impact on the UK market again, he may have to go this way, to bring his name back into focus here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Because the promoter would want to make a profit - they wouldn't do that with an artist who doesn't sell tickets That is nonsense though. Everyone (including Mika) has played in venues where the capacity was significantly smaller than the Adelphi. I have seen Mika at least 5 times in venues that were less than 800 people - during a regular tour. These were not promos or TV shows or private gigs. They were dates on his tour. I saw him just 3 months ago in a room of 450 people. The only reason he wouldn't sell enough tickets is if the venue is too large. This is the case with every artist regardless of how many tickets they can sell. Just because he can no longer sell out Brixton Academy 3 nights in a row doesn't mean it's impossible for a promoter to book him into a venue. I would guess that it's simply not worth Mika's time because he's working on a million other things that are making him money or potentially opening up opportunities for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarolinaAsh Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Um. Guys. I think Mika is reading this... check his instagram. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BiaIchihara Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Um. Guys. I think Mika is reading this... check his instagram. @mikainstagramWhat an amazing gig tonight in Valencia Estuvieron fuera de este mundo! Now to the airport for production meetings in London for the new tour! And Radio 2! XX! Happy!! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamiam Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 @mikainstagramWhat an amazing gig tonight in Valencia Estuvieron fuera de este mundo! Now to the airport for production meetings in London for the new tour! And Radio 2! XX! Happy!! Thank you!! Exciting... Love,love me 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn Mastin Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 (edited) @mikainstagramWhat an amazing gig tonight in Valencia Estuvieron fuera de este mundo! Now to the airport for production meetings in London for the new tour! And Radio 2! XX! Happy!! See now, this is more like it! It's so hard for UK fans because we don't want to come across as though we are bossing Mika about, or that he is our slave. We just want a bit of positive news. All that we want, not the sun and the moon Or tweets with his dogs in his big living room All we want Is to know that he is back in the UK And that soon Mika will say That there will be gigs, and he'll say so An he'll be on the radio It is just a simple solution To stop UK confusion To know he still has wondrous plans To make happy his UK fans All we want All we want All we want Is some UK news. That's a bit of good news. It's made my day. Thank you Mika! Edited August 3, 2015 by Marilyn Mastin 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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