Please stop the bullying

[Petra]

Who said they were *shocked,* OD? I think just about everyone who

posted in this thread so far (Kata excepted) said they agreed with Racha.

 

For the record, the original "Luke is no longer with the band" thread

has been closed and a Part 2 started -- we're hoping the thread can

get back on topic now.

 

dcdeb

What OD was pointing at were the posts from numerous members that picked on another members in the first part of the Lukeisnolongerabandmemberthread. These posts (do they need to be quoted here?) were in no way appropiate - they were unfriendly, unfair and the height of impudence.

[Christine]

What OD was pointing at were the posts from numerous members that picked on another members in the first part of the Lukeisnolongerabandmemberthread. These posts (do they need to be quoted here?) were in no way appropiate - they were unfriendly, unfair and the height of impudence.

 

Honestly I think we were all shell shocked at that point and just trying to get through the thread. I think I've read every single post, but it moved at lightening speed and I don't think anyone wants to go back and trawl through thousands of posts.

 

All we can do now is move forward. This is unprecedented drama on MFC. It's not about a couple of members arguing with each other. We're talking about a real life incident that has serious implications for someone many of us care about.

 

We are trying to take the lessons learned from what happened here and apply it to all discussions on MFC, but I seriously hope that the circumstances that prompted this explosion are never to be repeated in any case.

[DANI56]

Hi everyone, I am a big advocate of tolerance, and although I have tried my best not to get involved, I feel I have no option but voice out my concern and open this thread.

 

There are many people here that I admire..

 

but there are some people here that are so overwhelmed with the drama.. which turned them into immature, abusive, and arrogant people. Maybe they are going through a “phase” – but in any case, their behavior should not be acceptable. I am not the confrontational type, but I have witnessed it happen a lot lately that I felt the need to open this thread.

 

I am a big fan of sarcasm and intelligent humor, but lately, I have noticed so many people have been using sarcasm and humor to mask bullying and picking on other MFCers. I am surprised that some threads are read by mods that contain offense humor (if you call that humor) and none of them interfered to calm people down. This is not about voicing out your opinion, it is about saying what needs to be said – in a civilized way.

 

I love hearing different points of view, and with every point of view – whether I agree with it or disagree – I have nothing but respect as long as it is voiced out appropriately.

 

Flashing your “knowledge” around newbies (am not referring to Mika info, am talking about making people feel like they are stupid), taking it for granted that you are more of a “senior” and “connected” MFCer just because you were registered earlier or have more friends in this forum does not reflect a “friendly” environment. Everyone should be equally important and have the same rights to express themselves.

 

If you have a college degree, then good for you... just don't make the young ones feel stupid cause they don't have your "knowledge". You have been here for more than a year, good for you, that does not make you a better fan or have more privileges than others. if someone posts something you disagree with, don't accuse them of being stupid and have idol worship "issues", don't attack people on a personal level (whether they are single moms or not - that is none of your business and definitely off limits)

 

 

Please remember, people come here for social networking, getting updates, and entertainment. Even if they voice out an opinion that we disagree with or has a harsh tone of voice, we should simply guide that person and make them understand that this tone of voice is not acceptable. What I have witnessed is a lot of aggression and lots and lots of unjustifiable drama but worst of all - bullying.

 

I enjoy reading posts by everyone here, from the 13 year old teenager, to the proud mothers, university students, to the career women... the reason why we are here is our admiration for music. We can choose to learn from each other, or advise each other, but that should be a choice that is given. Please feel free to voice out your point of view, but say it respectfully and when using humor, make sure it is not abusive.

 

Being rude is easy but also primitive and disgusting .. I understand that being humble and funny can be challenging for some, just please make the effort...

 

This does not reflect the overall atmosphere here (THANK GOD), but it is becoming an acceptable trend.

 

I hope I did not offend anyone - that is definitely not the intention here... I just want the overall atmosphere to go back to being "friendly"

 

Thanks a lot, Racha, for your writing. Each one of us is different and each one of us has his own perceptions.... the main point is to always respect the other!!!!

(sorry for my bad English)

[Petra]

Honestly I think we were all shell shocked at that point and just trying to get through the thread. I think I've read every single post, but it moved at lightening speed and I don't think anyone wants to go back and trawl through thousands of posts.

 

All we can do now is move forward. This is unprecedented drama on MFC. It's not about a couple of members arguing with each other. We're talking about a real life incident that has serious implications for someone many of us care about.

 

We are trying to take the lessons learned from what happened here and apply it to all discussions on MFC, but I seriously hope that the circumstances that prompted this explosion are never to be repeated in any case.

I'm sorry but I totally disagree. A member says it's hard to have time for posting due to having two children that need to be breastfed and, although nobody knows a thing about this member except the fact that they have an arrow-sign next to their username (which numerous female member we all know have), people start being extraordinarily rude, mocking the topic of breastfeeding, making fun of the member, being rude because that member posted their opinion.

 

Why are some members allowed to post rude things like that? Why are some allowed to behave that way? Why are other members warned or even banned for this? (Yes, I know, banning needs more things like abusive PMs and such.)

 

I do not see how this behaviour can be called an explosion that happened due to being shell-shocked. No way.

[Nielo]

Great thread Racha!

 

If I ever need someone to voice my opinion, I know who to ask.

[Christine]

I'm sorry but I totally disagree. A member says it's hard to have time for posting due to having two children that need to be breastfed and, although nobody knows a thing about this member except the fact that they have an arrow-sign next to their username (which numerous female member we all know have), people start being extraordinarily rude, mocking the topic of breastfeeding, making fun of the member, being rude because that member posted their opinion.

 

Why are some members allowed to post rude things like that? Why are some allowed to behave that way? Why are other members warned or even banned for this? (Yes, I know, banning needs more things like abusive PMs and such.)

 

I do not see how this behaviour can be called an explosion that happened due to being shell-shocked. No way.

 

I misunderstood your post. When you said the "first part" of the Luke thread I thought you meant early on in the thread, not Part 1 of this thread.

 

The thing with OohLookie was over by the time I got home from work and got through the thread. I suggested closing it and moving on and that's what we're attempting to do.

 

Again this is a matter of perspective. You may think no one knows anything about this member but that's not what other posters believe. I'm not saying it's right or that we want to allow abuse of any nature in this forum. But this is not simply a case of people jumping on a random poster that they didn't agree with.

 

We're trying to move forward and I've spoken to some of the people involved and will have conversations with others. But we can't undo what's already been said, so we just have to get on with it.

[dcdeb]

I'm sorry but I totally disagree. A member says it's hard to have time for posting due to having two children that need to be breastfed and, although nobody knows a thing about this member except the fact that they have an arrow-sign next to their username (which numerous female member we all know have), people start being extraordinarily rude, mocking the topic of breastfeeding, making fun of the member, being rude because that member posted their opinion.

 

Um, first off, OhhLookie never said that she breastfed her children --

that was a part of the discussion that came afterward, I believe.

 

Why are some members allowed to post rude things like that? Why are some allowed to behave that way? Why are other members warned or even banned for this? (Yes, I know, banning needs more things like abusive PMs and such.)

 

Secondly, members post almost anything on this forum, and have...

It's a job to read it all.

 

And in this case, these posters you are referring to *were* warned.

 

And if by "other members" being banned you're referring to pinkunicorn,

as far as I'm aware at the present time she is "self-banned" -- that

is banned at her own request, so I don't see how discussion of her

enters into this.

 

dcdeb

[Blue Sky]

I think this shows we are all about due for another Mika gig.

[robertina]

I think this shows we are all about due for another Mika gig.

 

two weeks away..ppl...two weeks!

pls be kind and fine for two weeks....and then the magic will take us all again....

 

and if someone cannot feel the magic anymore....i'm sorry.

this may not be the place for them anymore.

their choice!

 

*racha...i could not resist...! *

[Christine]

A member says it's hard to have time for posting due to having two children that need to be breastfed.

 

I wanted to address this. The member didn't say any of this. They simply said that they were a single mother of 2 which no one (including myself) believed since they had listed their gender as male for over a year.

 

The thing about the breastfeeding was invented by MFCers because they believed this male poster was making up a story about being a single mother.

 

Again I'm not saying this is exemplary behaviour we want to encourage on MFC. But I really don't believe it was anyone's intent to bully some poor unsuspecting newbie. Right or wrong, I don't think that was anyone's intent at all.

[violet_sky]

facts are all over the forum lately... I hope there are volunteers out there who will PM abusive messages that they have read..

 

Please feel free to PM mods with examples if you feel there was any bullying examples... they have vowed to make this place a friendly one.. and I have great faith in them

 

Okay, the first time I read that in your earlier post I decided to just swallow it and not say anything but having it repeated here is just a bit much IMO.

Not only have you called people arrogant and immature which is an insult in itself, but you are also now repeatedly encouraging forum members (non mods) to play the sheriff game and browse threads for the purpose to find apparently immature or 'abusive' posts out of context and report them. And that is mature, yes?

Calling on people to denounce others is definitely the way to go if you want to bring back harmony and care bear bubbles to this forum.

'Bullying' and 'abusive' are strong words and I think there are things mixed up here which don't go together by definition. If you want to go and look for every immature post in this forum you will find yourself occupied for the rest of the year.

[dcdeb]

if a joke ends up insulting someone.. or offending another.. it stops being a joke and becomes an insult..

 

some of the jokes were hilarious - irrespective of whether I was part of the joke or not... they were simply funny..

 

but when I read a joke deeply hurting someone else.. I personally view it as bullying..

 

I agree that people need to "get on with it" - There is definitely no reason to add drama to the situation.. in fact, let's focus on making sure that whatever happened is not repeated..

 

Agreed!

[Oakie Doke]

Who said they were *shocked,* OD? I think just about everyone who

posted in this thread so far (Kata excepted) said they agreed with Racha.

 

For the record, the original "Luke is no longer with the band" thread

has been closed and a Part 2 started -- we're hoping the thread can

get back on topic now.

 

dcdeb

 

Well no one used the word 'shocked', but ... 'didn't see it coming' is what I meant. (And am I the only one that MQ isn't wokring properly for at the moment? This was really annoying to collect MQs ) But these posts I mean:

 

This is just sad that people feel this way

 

Thanks, Racha. I appreciate that you took the time to start this thread --

and I'm very sad to think you felt you needed to. I'm also a little

embarrassed that you think perhaps we mods weren't doing our jobs

very well, by allowing some comments that you've perceived as bullying.

 

And it's a good thing it's been closed now, but it doesn't just excuse almost 200 pages of rudeness. I obviously didn't read anywhere near every page in the thread, but the one warning/intervention I saw (from you) only fueled MORE unrestrained bullying. Which just left me like

 

But I think this thread isn't about mods interfering/perceiving bullying, but about MFCer thinking about how they act. I don't care what tensions there are, nothing excuses the way people acted.

 

It is not only a case of not reading all the threads. We all have differing perspectives on what is offensive and what isn't.

 

Okay, I don't want to pick out examples, especially, because it was just going on throughout the entire thread whenever anyone voiced a contrasting opinion, but I found the case of OhhLookie the most shocking. Where on earth is the rule implying that people with less posts are not allowed to state their opinion? If we need to clock up X amount of posts ogling Mika or having random discussions before anyone will give us any respect on this board, that is just discusting.

Anyway, that's got nothing to do with this quote, what I wanted to say was, Yes, I understand everyone has different perspectives, and I'm for one always interested to learn about those perspectives, so could you enlighten me as to how you interpreted this post as not-offensive to anyone:

 

don't be disrespectful,the kids are yelling as we speak

 

You should admire Lookie for finding time to state an opinion between breastfeeding (or are they all grown up? ) and working

 

:lmao:

[dcdeb]

Not only have you called people arrogant and immature which is an insult in itself, but you are also now repeatedly encouraging forum members (non mods) to play the sheriff game and browse threads for the purpose to find apparently immature or 'abusive' posts out of context and report them. And that is mature, yes?

 

I don't think racha is encouraging folks to go through every single thread

on this forum and report posts that they find offensive. At least, I hope

she's not, as that would be a logistical nightmare for us mods!

 

I think she's saying that in this particular case if there was

something that you found upsetting, and then moving forward if you

encounter a potential problem situation, THEN alert a moderator. It's

not the same as encouraging non-mods to play sheriff -- but members have

always done a certain amount of self-policing on this site.

 

dcdeb

[Christine]

Okay, I don't want to pick out examples, especially, because it was just going on throughout the entire thread whenever anyone voiced a contrasting opinion, but I found the case of OhhLookie the most shocking. Where on earth is the rule implying that people with less posts are not allowed to state their opinion? If we need to clock up X amount of posts ogling Mika or having random discussions before anyone will give us any respect on this board, that is just discusting.

 

OohLookie came into the thread, implied they had some insider info and then covered up their tracks by what appeared to be a fabricated and poorly thought-out claim that they were a single mother. This is classic troll behaviour and people responded to it as they would to any other troll behaviour.

 

Ioana made the breastfeeding comment and I thought it was quite amusing personally. Did I want the mocking to go on for pages and pages with further input from the troll or whoever OohLookie happens to be? Of course not. But I wasn't here to reign it in.

 

I also would have expected that anyone who was paying attention to the thread would be able to surmise that MFC members were simply trying to beat a troll at their own game rather than thinking they were seriously out to bully an innocent single mother of two. My mistake.

[Nielo]

Stupid question...

What exactly is a troll in this context?

 

 

(I have images of troll dolls flashing in my mind, but I'm quite sure that's not what you mean. )

[Christine]

Stupid question...

What exactly is a troll in this context?

 

Someone who comes on a message board pretending to be something they're not with the intent to bring attention to themselves or otherwise just stir things up.

[Nielo]

Someone who comes on a message board pretending to be something they're not with the intent to bring attention to themselves or otherwise just stir things up.

 

Ah, okay, thanx. ^^

[Oakie Doke]

*slaps MFC for not letting her MQ properly and making her take ages to post*

 

Again this is a matter of perspective. You may think no one knows anything about this member but that's not what other posters believe. I'm not saying it's right or that we want to allow abuse of any nature in this forum. But this is not simply a case of people jumping on a random poster that they didn't agree with.

 

Please feel free to PM mods with examples if you feel there was any bullying examples... they have vowed to make this place a friendly one.. and I have great faith in them

 

Maybe this thread will be an eye opener to some people who might have innocently thought some of their comments were harmless and not offensive to reconsider their communication approach..

 

It would be impossible because it wasn't just a case of instances of bullying, but just a general atmosphere of un-open-ness. There was not much open-minded discussion going on in the thread, just ganging up and unpleasant responses to people voicing opinions.

There's no point in pointing out examples, just to hope we can all open our eyes and think a bit about our actions.

 

And if by "other members" being banned you're referring to pinkunicorn,

as far as I'm aware at the present time she is "self-banned" -- that

is banned at her own request, so I don't see how discussion of her

enters into this.

 

I don't think she implied pinkunicorn at all?

 

But I really don't believe it was anyone's intent to bully some poor unsuspecting newbie. Right or wrong, I don't think that was anyone's intent at all.

 

You don't think that was anyone's intent? Would you like it if anyone talked maliciously about you for how ever many pages that went on for?

 

if a joke ends up insulting someone.. or offending another.. it stops being a joke and becomes an insult..

 

but when I read a joke deeply hurting someone else.. I personally view it as bullying..

 

I agree that people need to "get on with it" - There is definitely no reason to add drama to the situation.. in fact, let's focus on making sure that whatever happened is not repeated..

 

Exactly.

 

Not only have you called people arrogant and immature which is an insult in itself, but you are also now repeatedly encouraging forum members (non mods) to play the sheriff game and browse threads for the purpose to find apparently immature or 'abusive' posts out of context and report them. And that is mature, yes?

 

This is how the MFC works, the mods can't possibly read all posts, or understand what is going on behind them, but if someone is offended or hurt by a post, and can't sort it out with the poster, then they should be encouraged to report it

I think you've mis-interpreted.

[chickadee]

I wanted to address this. The member didn't say any of this. They simply said that they were a single mother of 2 which no one (including myself) believed since they had listed their gender as male for over a year.

 

The thing about the breastfeeding was invented by MFCers because they believed this male poster was making up a story about being a single mother.

 

Again I'm not saying this is exemplary behaviour we want to encourage on MFC. But I really don't believe it was anyone's intent to bully some poor unsuspecting newbie. Right or wrong, I don't think that was anyone's intent at all.

 

When I first joined this forum, Artsy had herself listed as a male (don't even know whether she still does, haven't seen her in ages). She used to post in the Aussies a lot and it really threw me, cos it took me ages to work out she's a female. I just presumed that this person was being "contrary" in the same way.

 

OohLookie came into the thread, implied they had some insider info and then covered up their tracks by what appeared to be a fabricated and poorly thought-out claim that they were a single mother. This is classic troll behaviour and people responded to it as they would to any other troll behaviour.

 

Ioana made the breastfeeding comment and I thought it was quite amusing personally. Did I want the mocking to go on for pages and pages with further input from the troll or whoever OohLookie happens to be? Of course not. But I wasn't here to reign it in.

 

I also would have expected that anyone who was paying attention to the thread would be able to surmise that MFC members were simply trying to beat a troll at their own game rather than thinking they were seriously out to bully an innocent single mother of two. My mistake.

 

I didn't know that troll was a well known forum term and presumed the first time I read it that LM was being insulting, which really suprised me. Since I didn't know that, and know nothing else about "classic troll behaviour", I will readily put my hand up to thinking that MFC'ers were being horrible. I can assure you I was paying attention, horrified attention at that, and I couldn't believe what I was reading. That's why I wrote what I wrote. Thinking that I was standing up for someone. If I've made a mistake and there was something else going on, I'm sorry. But I guess I'm glad that I spoke up for what i thought was an injustice, usually I don't have enough spine to do that.

[Christine]

You don't think that was anyone's intent? Would you like it if anyone talked maliciously about you for how ever many pages that went on for?

 

If I adopted a fake username and came onto MFC I would not care what anyone had to say to my troll persona. Because that's not me. That's why people invent fake personas in the first place. To protect themselves with anonymity and play games with other members of the board.

 

Could everyone be mistaken and OohLookie is actually a single mother of 2 who had no intention of deceiving anyone? Possibly. But I still maintain it was not anyone's intent to speak maliciously to a "real" poster.

[Oakie Doke]

OohLookie came into the thread, implied they had some insider info and then covered up their tracks by what appeared to be a fabricated and poorly thought-out claim that they were a single mother. This is classic troll behaviour and people responded to it as they would to any other troll behaviour.

 

Ioana made the breastfeeding comment and I thought it was quite amusing personally. Did I want the mocking to go on for pages and pages with further input from the troll or whoever OohLookie happens to be? Of course not. But I wasn't here to reign it in.

 

I also would have expected that anyone who was paying attention to the thread would be able to surmise that MFC members were simply trying to beat a troll at their own game rather than thinking they were seriously out to bully an innocent single mother of two. My mistake.

 

Firstly, thanks for asking what a troll was Neilo, I was utterly confused

 

Now, I'm sorry, but I don't see OL's posts as shouting "TROLL!" I believe her, and we should all have a bit of decency and believe the best in people.

So what if her first post was a little "cryptic" - it was (pretty much) her first message board post! And she made it very clear afterwards that she was not trying to stir anyone up or looking for trouble.

I wouldn't like to think every new member has to prove themselves to a group of negative people who aren't even open to believing them anyway

[Oakie Doke]

When I first joined this forum, Artsy had herself listed as a male (don't even know whether she still does, haven't seen her in ages). She used to post in the Aussies a lot and it really threw me, cos it took me ages to work out she's a female. I just presumed that this person was being "contrary" in the same way.

 

Exactly what I thought, it's in no way proof of her as a liar

 

if the un-open-ness was a case of people sticking by their opinion and standing by what they believe in.. then that's great... I respect people like that... after all, all sides and parties have every right to voice their opinions..

as long as it is done appropriately... and without hurting others...

thanks for explaining what I meant by "report to mods" statement ... it was misinterpreted

 

People are fine to stick up for their opinions, but when they are so un-open (I don't think that's a word ) to other people's opinions that when they are voiced instead of thinking about them or ignoring them, they make immature/insulting remarks about them, that's not on. And that was through the entire thread right from the start It's why I stopped posting there, and the same for a LOT of other people. And that is NOT a very nice environment on a message board...

 

Could everyone be mistaken and OohLookie is actually a single mother of 2 who had no intention of deceiving anyone? Possibly. But I still maintain it was not anyone's intent to speak maliciously to a "real" poster.

 

Regardless of intent, if it was a possibility, then it shouldn't have been happening. And if OhhLookie WAS a 'troll', wouldn't the kind of attention given to her been exactly what she wanted? If this is how people saw her, the smarter reaction would have been to just ignore her.

[Kata]

I have said around 20 times now that I acted that way because I believe it's a troll. I hate trolls, insider oracles, "deeks" and fake accounts more than anything else in the cyberworld, which I have also stated pretty much every time there has been one in here. If I for one second believed that this could possibly be a really shy single mother who hadn't dared to post for a year, then I would gladly have welcomed her, no matter what gender she claimed to be. For me it had nothing to do with the gender, it had to do with the timing, the choice of post to react to and the cryptic bla bla. If you believe I'm a bully because I don't like to be ****ed over by fakes, then I guess I'll just have to live with that, but I'm still not gonna welcome a troll EVER!

[Christine]

When I first joined this forum, Artsy had herself listed as a male (don't even know whether she still does, haven't seen her in ages). She used to post in the Aussies a lot and it really threw me, cos it took me ages to work out she's a female. I just presumed that this person was being "contrary" in the same way.

 

Posters were picking up on other things besides the male symbol.

 

 

If I've made a mistake and there was something else going on, I'm sorry. But I guess I'm glad that I spoke up for what i thought was an injustice, usually I don't have enough spine to do that.

 

You haven't made a mistake. I can understand how it looked to others and I'm sorry for that.

 

I'm not excusing the direction the thread took. Just that I don't believe for a minute that it was anyone's intention to harass an innocent single mother of two who just happened to pop in to share her opinion on Mika's web strategy.