chickadee Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I have said around 20 times now that I acted that way because I believe it's a troll. I hate trolls, insider oracles, "deeks" and fake accounts more than anything else in the cyberworld, which I have also stated pretty much every time there has been one in here. If I for one second believed that this could possibly be a really shy single mother who hadn't dared to post for a year, then I would gladly have welcomed her, no matter what gender she claimed to be. For me it had nothing to do with the gender, it had to do with the timing, the choice of post to react to and the cryptic bla bla. If you believe I'm a bully because I don't like to be ****ed over by fakes, then I guess I'll just have to live with that, but I'm still not gonna welcome a troll EVER! Ummm, what's a deek? And I take it this isn't the first "troll" that's popped up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Regardless of intent, if it was a possibility, then it shouldn't have been happening. And if OhhLookie WAS a 'troll', wouldn't the kind of attention given to her been exactly what she wanted? If this is how people saw her, the smarter reaction would have been to just ignore her. I've already said that it shouldn't have gone on the way it did. But I cannot undo what's already been done. The thread is closed and any further taunting of trolls is going to be curtailed if a mod is here to intervene. I don't know what else you expect us to do at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kata Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Ummm, what's a deek? And I take it this isn't the first "troll" that's popped up? We had a nice insider oracle named deek in here last year. After avoiding "it" for months, I eventually let people convince me that this was a real person and got ****ed over Taught me yet another lesson about how ****ed up people on the internet are I consider people here my friends and guess what, I get disappointed and hurt when I find out that people I have been talking to for months have just been playing a sick game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Ummm, what's a deek? And I take it this isn't the first "troll" that's popped up? Deek was a troll who cozied up to some members of MFC by pretending to be an insider and friend of Mika's. This is what Suzy and I are referring to when we say that there is a context and history here that changes our perspective on how we see certain behaviour from members that we know very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue Sky Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I had always though deek was real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickadee Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 We had a nice insider oracle named deek in here last year. After avoiding "it" for months, I eventually let people convince me that this was a real person and got ****ed over Taught me yet another lesson about how ****ed up people on the internet are I consider people here my friends and guess what, I get disappointed and hurt when I find out that people I have been talking to for months have just been playing a sick game I see. Once bitten, twice shy and all that, I guess. Well, having not had that experience to draw on, it looked completely different from where I stood, which is why i posted as i did. I've said it before and I'll say it again... I can be incredibly naive, but I don't think I'll change that part of me just yet. I'll still take my chances sticking my hand into the fire and hoping I don't get burnt. I hope nothing like that happens to me, you never know though do you, after all as Garfield says (paraphrasing another old joke) "On the internet, no-one can tell you're a cat." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakie Doke Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Ummm, what's a deek? And I take it this isn't the first "troll" that's popped up? Deek was another member people thought was a 'troll'. I don't know, I did read an old thread that people were tearing apart everything she said and reporting every log in, every action. I got sick of it and didn't finish, so I don't know what was "proven", but they didn't know whether or not she was a legitimate person when it started, which is enough to make it I've already said that it shouldn't have gone on the way it did. But I cannot undo what's already been done. The thread is closed and any further taunting of trolls is going to be curtailed if a mod is here to intervene. I don't know what else you expect us to do at this point. Nobody expects anything to be done. We're just thinking here, opening our eyes, whatever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kata Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Thanks kata for your feedback..I don't think we are discussing the "troll" incident specifically.... it was given as an example... it is not the only concern here I am sure everyone here appreciates the fact that you defend threads from real "trolls".. but I think it s not the main reason why some are a little upset.. The main problem was beyond the reactions to OL's posts... and beyond "that" thread... it is a general trend of people allowing themselves to insult others by using "humor" and in some cases straight forward aggression and insults... whether insulting their intelligence, questioning their intentions, making fun of their character and judgment... Moving on... this thread is not supposed to throw accusations... it was merely an attempt to bring back positivity for those who felt attacked Well up until the past few days, I haven't been posting much lately because I don't feel welcome. It goes both ways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kata Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 How come???? why??? it's not that damn nice to be called a bully everytime you open your mouth you know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickadee Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Well up until the past few days, I haven't been posting much lately because I don't feel welcome. It goes both ways You don't feel welcome? Because some people don't always get your humour or there's too much sweetness and light or what? (And I'm asking this seriously, I'm not being sarcastic) Edit: Oops, you were too quick for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakie Doke Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I guess I am like CD, but I still think everyone was a bit too quick to jump on OL, and I didn't get a "I'm out to fool you" vibe from her, I got the complete opposite Thanks kata for your feedback..I don't think we are discussing the "troll" incident specifically.... it was given as an example... it is not the only concern here I am sure everyone here appreciates the fact that you defend threads from real "trolls".. but I think it s not the main reason why some are a little upset.. The main problem was beyond the reactions to OL's posts... and beyond "that" thread... it is a general trend of people allowing themselves to insult others by using "humor" and in some cases straight forward aggression and insults... whether insulting their intelligence, questioning their intentions, making fun of their character and judgment... Moving on... this thread is not supposed to throw accusations... it was merely an attempt to bring back positivity for those who felt attacked Yes, I quite agree Well up until the past few days, I haven't been posting much lately because I don't feel welcome. It goes both ways Exactly, well that's what this is about! Why don't you feel welcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christine Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Deek was another member people thought was a 'troll'. I don't know, I did read an old thread that people were tearing apart everything she said and reporting every log in, every action. I got sick of it and didn't finish, so I don't know what was "proven", but they didn't know whether or not she was a legitimate person when it started, which is enough to make it I don't know anything about the thread you're referring to. But the real friend of Mika's that she was impersonating came here and exposed her so we know that Deek was an imposter. Nobody expects anything to be done.We're just thinking here, opening our eyes, whatever I get you. I think most of us are in agreement here about the overall sentiment that we want MFC to remain friendly so people can feel comfortable posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lollipop_monkey Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 It would be impossible because it wasn't just a case of instances of bullying, but just a general atmosphere of un-open-ness. There was not much open-minded discussion going on in the thread, just ganging up and unpleasant responses to people voicing opinions. There's no point in pointing out examples, just to hope we can all open our eyes and think a bit about our actions. Oakie Doke, I want to let you know that I mean this sincerely and I am in no way being sarcastic here. How would you like things to have been handled differently? Deb and I, and some others, asked people to try and respect others' opinions. This was, of course, before OhhLookie came into that thread. As others have stated, the reason members were wary of OhhLookie wasn't just because he/she is a newbie. It was a number of things, from the fact that he/she had lurked for SO long without posting - that is, apart from posting a bit of a curious photo over a year ago. This person also came out of the blue and said I'd "regret" criticizing Mika's web presence; I appreciate that he/she explained him/herself better later on, but on the surface, that comment was interpreted as somewhat threatening. The choice of words used by OhhLookie got people's guards up in a way that some other regular new member likely wouldn't have. I didn't know that troll was a well known forum term and presumed the first time I read it that LM was being insulting, which really suprised me. Since I didn't know that, and know nothing else about "classic troll behaviour", I will readily put my hand up to thinking that MFC'ers were being horrible. Yup - I wasn't referring to how OhhLookie smells, or whether he/she may in fact live under a bridge and eat children (is that what fairy-tale trolls do?)...I was referring to his/her conduct on our site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chickadee Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I don't know anything about the thread you're referring to. But the real friend of Mika's that she was impersonating came here and exposed her so we know that Deek was an imposter. I get you. I think most of us are in agreement here about the overall sentiment that we want MFC to remain friendly so people can feel comfortable posting. She was actually impersonating someone else and not just pretending to be someone fictional? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikas_gal07 Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Thanks kata for your feedback..I don't think we are discussing the "troll" incident specifically.... it was given as an example... it is not the only concern here I am sure everyone here appreciates the fact that you defend threads from real "trolls".. but I think it s not the main reason why some are a little upset.. The main problem was beyond the reactions to OL's posts... and beyond "that" thread... it is a general trend of people allowing themselves to insult others by using "humor" and in some cases straight forward aggression and insults... whether insulting their intelligence, questioning their intentions, making fun of their character and judgment... Moving on... this thread is not supposed to throw accusations... it was merely an attempt to bring back positivity for those who felt attacked I really appreciate your intentions Racha with this thread ... But this thread was bound to provoke more arguements ... if people felt attacked in the luke thread , it would have done no harm for them to go to a mod and complain ... creating a thread for people who felt attacked is bound to make the people who posted in the luke thread defensive , wondering if one of thier posts was taken offensively ... in a way by this thread being created , it actually feels like gangs are being formed ... The attacked persons thread and the bullying thread (The luke thread) ... when really peoples emotions should have been left to ride out , and individuals could have complained to a mod if they felt they were bullied .... but again , i respect your good intentions but it feels like its just created more controversy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelzy Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Oh dear.. I came back because I wanted to PM someone and I couldn't help but look here.. Deek was another member people thought was a 'troll'. I don't know, I did read an old thread that people were tearing apart everything she said and reporting every log in, every action. I got sick of it and didn't finish, so I don't know what was "proven", but they didn't know whether or not she was a legitimate person when it started, which is enough to make it OkD, I'm not here to argue.. But if you don't know all the details then perhaps you should let someone who does explain it.. I, for one, wanted to hear it from someone who experienced it firsthand. But in your post you've only half told the events, and you've made out that the posts people involved in the situation made could've been unjustified. Yet, you never finished reading the thread to find out if it was justified. And then by giving them a you could be insulting them based on your assumptions. Isn't this thread about how we shouldn't be doing that? Just an observation.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mika Freaka =) Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 hello all, i want to know if iv ever hurt anyones feelings, feel free to Pm me or say it openly i will apologise im sure i didnt mean for it to be harmful. Did i offend anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nielo Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 hello all, i want to know if iv ever hurt anyones feelings, feel free to Pm me or say it openly i will apologise im sure i didnt mean for it to be harmful. Did i offend anyone? Not me. But I like your idea. If I've ever offended anyone, people should feel free to pm me too. ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikas_gal07 Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Hi...as I have mentioned before, this is not about OL or trolls... and remember many people expressed your points of view in a civilized way... but others, did not.. it's not a case of "that" thread only... it's a case of bashing someone just because they disagree ... or making fun of them - to the extend of hurting them... I specifically don't want to go into "that" thread's details.. caus, again, as I said before, it is not about it only... it's about a general attitude that needed to be addressed... Thanks mika's gal, No one should feel attacked... unless they were... and if they were, then it shouldn't happen... we can agree to disagree.. while maintaining respect... as I have stated before... this is not about taking sides... or teaming up against each other.. having different points of view is great... and this is definitely not about Team Luke vs. Team Mika... cause there are 2 threads about that if people wish to discuss it further.. and this one is not it... There is no controversy... what I am trying to say is very simple... Express yourself ... just don't insult people while you are doing it... no probs i dont think YOU are creating controversy ... just that i thought the thread may but again i understand it was done with good intentions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sariflor Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I was resisting to post here, but after reading a few posts I thought it necessary to come in and say a few things. First, a few quotes that I strongly agree with: Could everyone be mistaken and OohLookie is actually a single mother of 2 who had no intention of deceiving anyone? Possibly. But I still maintain it was not anyone's intent to speak maliciously to a "real" poster. If I for one second believed that this could possibly be a really shy single mother who hadn't dared to post for a year, then I would gladly have welcomed her, no matter what gender she claimed to be. For me it had nothing to do with the gender, it had to do with the timing, the choice of post to react to and the cryptic bla bla. OohLookie came into the thread, implied they had some insider info and then covered up their tracks by what appeared to be a fabricated and poorly thought-out claim that they were a single mother. This is classic troll behaviour and people responded to it as they would to any other troll behaviour. I also would have expected that anyone who was paying attention to the thread would be able to surmise that MFC members were simply trying to beat a troll at their own game rather than thinking they were seriously out to bully an innocent single mother of two. My mistake. Exactly my thoughts and feelings about this. The intent was not to go out and bully a poor innocent victim (and I still don’t believe that this is what happened), but to respond to someone who appeared dodgy with a bit of their own style. iIt’s not about how many posts people have, etc, it’s about how they address others. OL did not do this with respect, so IMO that is where their right to be treated wich cottonwool ended. It seems tome like some people like to pretend that MFC is like some nice parallel reality where they can hide from real life and it’s issues. Well let me break this to you: it’s not. MFC has real people ,and therefore real issues. That means that there will be squabbles, different opinions voiced, and sometimes arguments. And that is no big deal, it just means that it’s real. Quite frankly, I am a bit disgusted at such a liberal use of the term “bullying”. Bullyingis a very serious matter, that some MFC’ers have suffered in real life, and to me it seems too extreme for what has happened here. Often people have different cultures, different types of humour, etc, and all this will make them disagree and sometimes take offence of things that are not meant as offensive. I just think that everyone needs to have a bit of self reflection here, and also think that they may be posting things that others will take badly, and yet this does not mean that they are being bullied or abused. I am seeing what to me seems a bit of a victimising approach here, and I just don’t understand or agree with it. I will personally not apologise for anything that I said on that thread, as I believe that I was never nasty to anyone, and I stand by my posts. Maybe some of them I will change my opinion about later, but at least I like to think that I am brave enough to let them stay there for anyone to see and I am not going to edit or delete them. Anyway I guess that what I am trying to say is that I find this “stop the bullying” approach a bit much, I don’t think that there was actual bullying, maybe a few heated exchanges that could have been handled differently, but hey, that’s life for you. I have personally not tried to insult anyone, or be mean, but if others can’t understand my humour or my feelings sometimes…well, we can’t all get along or please everyone. I wish everyone could just accept that. And I agree with Caz about the divide that this thread will cause. In a way , it is the same situation, just slightly reversed. Or is it? Who has the moral highground here to sit pointing fingers at others? It’s all very tricky indeed. Oh and on Lookie….let’s recap. First post in march ’07. Listed as male. Posts a Picture obviously taken backstage, at a gig, before they go on stage (Cherisse is warming up and not sweaty, looks like she has fresh makeup, etc) Let’s see..who has access to backstage before gigs? The band? More or less that’s it, right? I doubt Mika would take the picture and post it. Cherisse and Luke are in it. Saranayde was not with them yet. That leaves possibly 2 other people. Which posts was Lookie getting so uptight about? Come on guys, just look at the clues here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAK1 Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Thanks for clearing up this whole troll thing, I wasn't sure what it was all about, I assumed it was an Apple in joke thing, but it would have been helpful to have an explanation for us who aren't, that way there wouldn't be any misunderstandings. I think maybe in future, if any of us bring our in jokes to another thread, and I'm not talking about ones covered in the FAQs, we should explain so as not to cause any needless confusion and get people thinking there is any bullying going on. I hate bullying as much as the next person here, been there, got the t shirt, and love coming here because it gets me away from the annoying people I have to deal with in RL, and I personally have never had any problems here, but if this thread makes people aware that it won't be tolerated on the forum, then I'm all for it. Sorry if I seem a bit full on about this, but it's how I feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollyD Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I haven't been around much at all lately - sad to hear that this type of stuff has reared it's ugly head yet once again! Take some happy pills people! Or, you know what makes one blissfully happy...... listen to Mika more..... I love everyone on the MFC! When I do use sarcasm, it is to the ones that know me best - so there is no bullying there! SPRAY ON THE GLITTER FOLKS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kata Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I know I did not call YOU a bully! why are they calling you a bully? are you hurting them with any comments? You know what, I think I could actually deal with it if someone told me directly that I'm a bully instead of the constant "I'm not gonna mention any names, but this forum is ruined by the mean people () who hide their evil bullying () behind sarcasm () and pink sunglasses ()... " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oakie Doke Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I don't know anything about the thread you're referring to. But the real friend of Mika's that she was impersonating came here and exposed her so we know that Deek was an imposter. Maybe I'm not talking about Deek. Deek impersonated someone? I'm going to try and find the thread. Oakie Doke, I want to let you know that I mean this sincerely and I am in no way being sarcastic here. How would you like things to have been handled differently? Deb and I, and some others, asked people to try and respect others' opinions. This was, of course, before OhhLookie came into that thread. As others have stated, the reason members were wary of OhhLookie wasn't just because he/she is a newbie. It was a number of things, from the fact that he/she had lurked for SO long without posting - that is, apart from posting a bit of a curious photo over a year ago. This person also came out of the blue and said I'd "regret" criticizing Mika's web presence; I appreciate that he/she explained him/herself better later on, but on the surface, that comment was interpreted as somewhat threatening. The choice of words used by OhhLookie got people's guards up in a way that some other regular new member likely wouldn't have. Why does everyone keep saying this! I never accused any mods of anything! This is nothing to do with interfering with bullying, it's about bullying. There's no point interfering with it when it's something in people's mindset. It's just about getting people to open their eyes and think about whether their going to hurt someone with what their saying. And ... (gah, I know this isn't what we are talking about here, but I can't help it) I can think of a lot of members who have suddenly posted after signing up a long time ago (heck I did it today on another forum), and I can honestly say even without 'insider knowledge' I thought the same sort of thing as OL about your post, just based on Mika saying how he was going to revamp his site now and all that stuff. I really appreciate your intentions Racha with this thread ... But this thread was bound to provoke more arguements ... if people felt attacked in the luke thread , it would have done no harm for them to go to a mod and complain ... creating a thread for people who felt attacked is bound to make the people who posted in the luke thread defensive , wondering if one of thier posts was taken offensively ... in a way by this thread being created , it actually feels like gangs are being formed ... The attacked persons thread and the bullying thread (The luke thread) ... when really peoples emotions should have been left to ride out , and individuals could have complained to a mod if they felt they were bullied .... but again , i respect your good intentions but it feels like its just created more controversy Hmm, well, the bit I bolded seems to me to be the point of the thread. But not to attack anyone, just to make us think. And it's made me think, and I'll think a lot more carefully about things I post from now on. Not in a 'worrying about everything we post, not feeling open to post what we think' kind of way, in a 'being more open to people's opinions/feelings/ways and not biting them for expressing them' kind of way. It's good for everyone. And this isn't just about the Luke thread, because it's just generally all over. OkD, I'm not here to argue.. But if you don't know all the details then perhaps you should let someone who does explain it.. I, for one, wanted to hear it from someone who experienced it firsthand. But in your post you've only half told the events, and you've made out that the posts people involved in the situation made could've been unjustified. Yet, you never finished reading the thread to find out if it was justified. And then by giving them a :thumbdown you could be insulting them based on your assumptions. Isn't this thread about how we shouldn't be doing that? Just an observation.. Well, I'm a slow replier and I always miss the mark. I was replying to my knowledge to CD, but a bunch of other people beat me to it. And I am really going to go and find that thread now. (Thus making this post even more behind:naughty:) Anyway, this is the thread (how incredibly off topic am I going?) http://www.mikafanclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5912&highlight=deek&page=10 It obviously goes over a LOT of pages, but the point I was making with my post was ... people jumped to conclusions (openly) before there was proof, they had no idea whether or not deek was a legitimate person when they were stalking her every move in a way legitimate MFcers probably would not appreciate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelzy Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Well, I'm a slow replier and I always miss the mark. I was replying to my knowledge to CD, but a bunch of other people beat me to it. And I am really going to go and find that thread now. (Thus making this post even more behind:naughty:) Anyway, this is the thread (how incredibly off topic am I going?) http://www.mikafanclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5912&highlight=deek&page=10 It obviously goes over a LOT of pages, but the point I was making with my post was ... people jumped to conclusions (openly) before there was proof, they had no idea whether or not deek was a legitimate person when they were stalking her every move in a way legitimate MFcers probably would not appreciate. Just as quickly as I can.. I read a few pages and I see no problem considering that there was open curiosity expressed due to particular breadcrumbs Deek had already left. The problem with trolls is they want to see how far they can push their little game. It's exciting for them. It's not just about tricking people. It's also about seeing how long it takes to get caught. So they want people to say "Hang on, what.. who.. how?? :boxed:" Now, imagine that no one had done anything to catch Deek out. Imagine Deek was still here, befriending you and getting to know things about you. I know that you've posted some information from time to time that Trolls like Deek would enjoy. So, in the end those members did you and the rest of us a favour by questioning Deeks identity. If someone comes here under false pretenses, or acts suspiciously, then they should get what they give. Finally, am I the only one that thinks Ohhlookie got their user name because their first post 15 months ago (and only post until this week) was like saying "Ohh lookie here, I have a pic of Cherisse and Luke and I want you all to wonder how I got it.. btw, notice that I'm shorter than Luke and a little taller than Cherisse.. Probably Mikeys height." Anyway, this is apparently off topic now.. But I needed to reply. It's all about being expressive.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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