Appleman, apples, cats, donuts, sarcasm, wizards (kind & fine), and WHATEVER part 5

[chickadee]

I was going to ask if any of you read the tvtropes site... I do (I blame my husband) and came across this trope and found that, although they are talking about video games and tv series for the most part, I could see elements of us (and I don't mean The Apples, I mean the MFC, but I thought you Apples would be able to get what it says and not be offended by it) in the way people on this forum get very involved... I don't think Mika is yet heavily influenced by us with regards the actual material he puts out, but we do exert some influence... And it's possible that the MFC is altering also in this way. Also relevant are the comments about attrition.

 

Am I the only one who thinks this or does anyone else agree with me?

 

I've put the link to the page, cos some of what is in the body of the text are actually links to other trope pages and they don't always make sense without reading the explanation at the top of that tropes' page.

 

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PanderingToTheBase

 

"What's happening with video games is the same thing that happens with anything new and interesting. At the beginning, everybody wants to see what it is. They gather around and check it out. But gradually, people start to lose interest.

"The people who don't lose interest become more and more involved...And the medium starts to be influenced by only those people. It becomes something exclusive to the people who've stuck with it for a long time. And when the people who were interested in it at first look back at it, it's no longer the thing that interested them."

—Shigeru Miyamoto

 

One of life's little oddities is the nebulous relationship between the fans of media and the creators, producers, and distributors of that media. In theory, the creators are completely independent, free to follow their artistic vision and let fandom follow if it will. But that's a naive view. Anything that's compelling enough to accumulate a group of intensely devoted fans will be inextricably bound to what those fans want. Writers and producers like to think they're above the petty concerns of hoi polloi, but Dis Continuity, Dork Age, Authors Saving Throw, Fanon, and many others say otherwise. You have to give the fans what they want, and everyone involved knows that.

 

There is a danger, though, in pandering too heavily towards the most devoted aspects of your fanbase. There's a saying that in some fandoms, the most devoted ten percent of the fanbase is responsible for ninety percent of the sales. While this is an exaggeration, there's a grain of truth there. A devoted fanbase is also a loud fanbase, and it can be easy to panic at the sight of hatemail or message boards filled with furious invective. If a medium has a hardcore group of fans that have followed it from the beginning, there's a temptation for creators to cater excessively to that fanbase when creating new product — but in so doing, the creators risk raising the entry level of their product to the point where it becomes impossible to attract new fans, because the barriers to entry are too high. The fandom becomes like a private club, with only a small group having the foreknowledge necessary to enter it. Add that to the inevitable decay of the core fanbase (due to burnout, lessened interest, etc.) and you've got slumping sales. This is especially common in media where the demographics are fairly narrow to begin with.

 

Obviously, when this happens, it's a major problem. New fans are the lifeblood of any medium, because no fandom has a 100% retention rate. The hardcore will buy whatever you have to sell them; you need to target the undecided.

 

Ironically, although the intention of Pandering To The Base is essentially fan-pleasing, the end result can often be just as off-putting to devoted fans as it is to the wider audience. Ultimately, what most devoted fans really want is the same as what the more casual ones do: original, well-told, and interesting stories, rather than constant pandering and Continuity Porn. And in many cases, attempts to pander to the base can be scuttled by the producers screwing up and getting it all wrong, which is guaranteed to tick off even those fans who are in to that sort of thing. Either way, a lot of the time, attempts to pander to the fans ultimately end up failing to please anyone.

 

A wise producer avoids this, and is careful to plant enough hooks in their newer material that they can win new fans to replace those that they lose to the passage of time. He doesn't overreact to the ravings of its most rabid fans, realizing that for every fan who cares enough to write nasty e-mails there are ten more who still enjoy the product, but don't feel the need to write to them about it.

 

Can result in The Chris Carter Effect, Better On DVD, Wall Bangers, Continuity Lock Out and — if left unchecked — Too Good To Last.

 

The expression "pandering (or, less judgmentally, 'playing') to the base" originated in U.S. politics, where the primary system requires candidates to win the approval of their party's rank-and-file before formulating a broader appeal in the general election.

[Naectegale]

You said it baby!

 

Sorry to be pedantic, but in fact I wrote it down

[Naectegale]

I was going to ask if any of you read the tvtropes site... I do (I blame my husband) and came across this trope and found that, although they are talking about video games and tv series for the most part, I could see elements of us (and I don't mean The Apples, I mean the MFC, but I thought you Apples would be able to get what it says and not be offended by it) in the way people on this forum get very involved... I don't think Mika is yet heavily influenced by us with regards the actual material he puts out, but we do exert some influence... And it's possible that the MFC is altering also in this way. Also relevant are the comments about attrition.

 

Am I the only one who thinks this or does anyone else agree with me?

 

I've put the link to the page, cos some of what is in the body of the text are actually links to other trope pages and they don't always make sense without reading the explanation at the top of that tropes' page.

 

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PanderingToTheBase

 

"What's happening with video games is the same thing that happens with anything new and interesting. At the beginning, everybody wants to see what it is. They gather around and check it out. But gradually, people start to lose interest.

"The people who don't lose interest become more and more involved...And the medium starts to be influenced by only those people. It becomes something exclusive to the people who've stuck with it for a long time. And when the people who were interested in it at first look back at it, it's no longer the thing that interested them."

—Shigeru Miyamoto

 

One of life's little oddities is the nebulous relationship between the fans of media and the creators, producers, and distributors of that media. In theory, the creators are completely independent, free to follow their artistic vision and let fandom follow if it will. But that's a naive view. Anything that's compelling enough to accumulate a group of intensely devoted fans will be inextricably bound to what those fans want. Writers and producers like to think they're above the petty concerns of hoi polloi, but Dis Continuity, Dork Age, Authors Saving Throw, Fanon, and many others say otherwise. You have to give the fans what they want, and everyone involved knows that.

 

There is a danger, though, in pandering too heavily towards the most devoted aspects of your fanbase. There's a saying that in some fandoms, the most devoted ten percent of the fanbase is responsible for ninety percent of the sales. While this is an exaggeration, there's a grain of truth there. A devoted fanbase is also a loud fanbase, and it can be easy to panic at the sight of hatemail or message boards filled with furious invective. If a medium has a hardcore group of fans that have followed it from the beginning, there's a temptation for creators to cater excessively to that fanbase when creating new product — but in so doing, the creators risk raising the entry level of their product to the point where it becomes impossible to attract new fans, because the barriers to entry are too high. The fandom becomes like a private club, with only a small group having the foreknowledge necessary to enter it. Add that to the inevitable decay of the core fanbase (due to burnout, lessened interest, etc.) and you've got slumping sales. This is especially common in media where the demographics are fairly narrow to begin with.

 

Obviously, when this happens, it's a major problem. New fans are the lifeblood of any medium, because no fandom has a 100% retention rate. The hardcore will buy whatever you have to sell them; you need to target the undecided.

 

Ironically, although the intention of Pandering To The Base is essentially fan-pleasing, the end result can often be just as off-putting to devoted fans as it is to the wider audience. Ultimately, what most devoted fans really want is the same as what the more casual ones do: original, well-told, and interesting stories, rather than constant pandering and Continuity Porn. And in many cases, attempts to pander to the base can be scuttled by the producers screwing up and getting it all wrong, which is guaranteed to tick off even those fans who are in to that sort of thing. Either way, a lot of the time, attempts to pander to the fans ultimately end up failing to please anyone.

 

A wise producer avoids this, and is careful to plant enough hooks in their newer material that they can win new fans to replace those that they lose to the passage of time. He doesn't overreact to the ravings of its most rabid fans, realizing that for every fan who cares enough to write nasty e-mails there are ten more who still enjoy the product, but don't feel the need to write to them about it.

 

Can result in The Chris Carter Effect, Better On DVD, Wall Bangers, Continuity Lock Out and — if left unchecked — Too Good To Last.

 

The expression "pandering (or, less judgmentally, 'playing') to the base" originated in U.S. politics, where the primary system requires candidates to win the approval of their party's rank-and-file before formulating a broader appeal in the general election.

 

This is interesting - and very relevant to the MFC. I know Mika does take note of MFC and his blog comments, but I hope he realises just how dangerous it would be to ignore the need to attract a less devoted, more casual "wider public". There are just over 12,000 fans on MFC, not all of them active, a few are very vocal, but it is the 4million+ punters who bought the album that will give him a career.

 

I believe Mika is wise to this - he will write to please himself, and he has proved so far that what pleases him has a broader appeal. There is sense in playing parts of his new album to the "indifferent" passers by in LA (including seagulls ) to test its appeal, rather than playing to fans who have no objectivity.

 

I always get a tad irritated with the "Mika should do x,y,z" type comments - I want him to surprise me, not do as he is told

[chickadee]

This is interesting - and very relevant to the MFC. I know Mika does take note of MFC and his blog comments, but I hope he realises just how dangerous it would be to ignore the need to attract a less devoted, more casual "wider public". There are just over 12,000 fans on MFC, not all of them active, a few are very vocal, but it is the 4million+ punters who bought the album that will give him a career.

 

I believe Mika is wise to this - he will write to please himself, and he has proved so far that what pleases him has a broader appeal. There is sense in playing parts of his new album to the "indifferent" passers by in LA (including seagulls ) to test its appeal, rather than playing to fans who have no objectivity.

 

I always get a tad irritated with the "Mika should do x,y,z" type comments - I want him to surprise me, not do as he is told

 

I might disagree slightly with the comment about the fans having no objectivity, some of them do, if not all:wink2: But I would agree that I like him to surprise me... although if one of us has a particularly brilliant idea that I would love to see Mika do, I'm not averse to the idea being suggested to him, provided it's not done in such a way as you suggest above.

[Christine]

I don't think Mika is yet heavily influenced by us with regards the actual material he puts out, but we do exert some influence... And it's possible that the MFC is altering also in this way. Also relevant are the comments about attrition.

 

Am I the only one who thinks this or does anyone else agree with me?

 

I think this applies more to being a Mika fan than to Mika per se.

 

I am starting to regret becoming so heavily involved because I see it turning into something I don't want to be a part of at times. No matter how much overinterest I take in Mika I am, at heart, a casual fan in the sense that I don't relate to the unrealistic demands I see people placing on him.

 

I don't expect him to meet me or write a blog for me 3 times a day or reveal details of his works in progress to prove that he cares about his fans. He makes albums. I buy them. I buy concert tickets. He performs. That's where our relationship starts and ends and no matter how many times he sends me champagne it is sheer folly to think otherwise.

 

I have been critical of Mika because I see him or his organization dropping the ball on simple things that would help him succeed or at least fulfill some commitments they made when they purchased MFC. Sometimes the complaints I hear from fans appear to be motivated by their own selfish desires, much of which is just generally getting attention from him in order to feel special.

 

As the casual fans have drifted off the tone is beginning to change. People who tend to beg, use emotional blackmail or other desperate measure to get Mika's attention or make demands on him...their voices are now louder and it's starting to rub off on others. It's become the norm to expect things of this man that no one should expect and to moan loudly if you don't get it.

 

I don't think Mika is influenced by this when it comes to making music, although it's hard to say because the last time he made an album he didn't have any fans.

 

But I think he is definitely influenced in his internet presence and that's going to become more of an issue once his website is launched. He also appears to be succumbing to fan pressure at the gigs and the more he gives the more people want to take.

 

I think Mika should stick to his guns and do what he wants when it comes to making music, his website, whatever. I think it's a mistake to cater to a couple of hundred people no matter how big their mouths are because they are not representative of his wider audience and they are especially not representative of his potential audience.

 

Mika asked J&Y to guest blog because he had certain ideas about what he wanted to do with his blog and that seems to have quickly fallen by the wayside as people reacted negatively to their blog entry. I think Mika should just do what he wants to do and he will attract the kind of audience that appreciates what he's doing. This philosophy served him well when it came to making LICM and I think it should apply to any project he's involved in.

 

Everyone was attracted to this boy who rhetorically asked if he should be like Grace Kelly and if he starts catering to the whims of others, even his fans, he will no longer be that artist.

[chickadee]

I think this applies more to being a Mika fan than to Mika per se.

 

I am starting to regret becoming so heavily involved because I see it turning into something I don't want to be a part of at times. No matter how much overinterest I take in Mika I am, at heart, a casual fan in the sense that I don't relate to the unrealistic demands I see people placing on him.

 

I don't expect him to meet me or write a blog for me 3 times a day or reveal details of his works in progress to prove that he cares about his fans. He makes albums. I buy them. I buy concert tickets. He performs. That's where our relationship starts and ends and no matter how many times he sends me champagne it is sheer folly to think otherwise.

 

I have been critical of Mika because I see him or his organization dropping the ball on simple things that would help him succeed or at least fulfill some commitments they made when they purchased MFC. Sometimes the complaints I hear from fans appear to be motivated by their own selfish desires, much of which is just generally getting attention from him in order to feel special.

 

As the casual fans have drifted off the tone is beginning to change. People who tend to beg, use emotional blackmail or other desperate measure to get Mika's attention or make demands on him...their voices are now louder and it's starting to rub off on others. It's become the norm to expect things of this man that no one should expect and to moan loudly if you don't get it.

 

I don't think Mika is influenced by this when it comes to making music, although it's hard to say because the last time he made an album he didn't have any fans.

 

But I think he is definitely influenced in his internet presence and that's going to become more of an issue once his website is launched. He also appears to be succumbing to fan pressure at the gigs and the more he gives the more people want to take.

 

I think Mika should stick to his guns and do what he wants when it comes to making music, his website, whatever. I think it's a mistake to cater to a couple of hundred people no matter how big their mouths are because they are not representative of his wider audience and they are especially not representative of his potential audience.

 

Mika asked J&Y to guest blog because he had certain ideas about what he wanted to do with his blog and that seems to have quickly fallen by the wayside as people reacted negatively to their blog entry. I think Mika should just do what he wants to do and he will attract the kind of audience that appreciates what he's doing. This philosophy served him well when it came to making LICM and I think it should apply to any project he's involved in.

 

Everyone was attracted to this boy who rhetorically asked if he should be like Grace Kelly and if he starts catering to the whims of others, even his fans, he will no longer be that artist.

 

There are so many things I'd like to say back but some of them might not be the most tactful things to be said on the forum, so I'll refrain. I'll just stick with a bland "Well written. You've made some good points that I agree with."

[S&M]

Fangurls turned sour apples are welcome. I used to be one of them.

Me too. It wasn't until I was canceled on that I snapped out of it.

 

 

A popular avatar in summer 2007.

 

@ the photo. @ Mika and/or his management circa mid-2007. @ the avatar.

 

I think this applies more to being a Mika fan than to Mika per se.

 

I am starting to regret becoming so heavily involved because I see it turning into something I don't want to be a part of at times. No matter how much overinterest I take in Mika I am, at heart, a casual fan in the sense that I don't relate to the unrealistic demands I see people placing on him.

 

I don't expect him to meet me or write a blog for me 3 times a day or reveal details of his works in progress to prove that he cares about his fans. He makes albums. I buy them. I buy concert tickets. He performs. That's where our relationship starts and ends and no matter how many times he sends me champagne it is sheer folly to think otherwise.

 

I have been critical of Mika because I see him or his organization dropping the ball on simple things that would help him succeed or at least fulfill some commitments they made when they purchased MFC. Sometimes the complaints I hear from fans appear to be motivated by their own selfish desires, much of which is just generally getting attention from him in order to feel special.

 

As the casual fans have drifted off the tone is beginning to change. People who tend to beg, use emotional blackmail or other desperate measure to get Mika's attention or make demands on him...their voices are now louder and it's starting to rub off on others. It's become the norm to expect things of this man that no one should expect and to moan loudly if you don't get it.

 

I don't think Mika is influenced by this when it comes to making music, although it's hard to say because the last time he made an album he didn't have any fans.

 

But I think he is definitely influenced in his internet presence and that's going to become more of an issue once his website is launched. He also appears to be succumbing to fan pressure at the gigs and the more he gives the more people want to take.

 

I think Mika should stick to his guns and do what he wants when it comes to making music, his website, whatever. I think it's a mistake to cater to a couple of hundred people no matter how big their mouths are because they are not representative of his wider audience and they are especially not representative of his potential audience.

 

Mika asked J&Y to guest blog because he had certain ideas about what he wanted to do with his blog and that seems to have quickly fallen by the wayside as people reacted negatively to their blog entry. I think Mika should just do what he wants to do and he will attract the kind of audience that appreciates what he's doing. This philosophy served him well when it came to making LICM and I think it should apply to any project he's involved in.

 

Everyone was attracted to this boy who rhetorically asked if he should be like Grace Kelly and if he starts catering to the whims of others, even his fans, he will no longer be that artist.

Hear hear, couldn't have said it better myself.

[EnFa]

 

A popular avatar in summer 2007.

 

 

Oh my, where did time go?

[babspanky]

Oh my, where did time go?

 

Yeah, the good old days.

 

[EnFa]

Omf, what the Mika am I wearing!?

 

 

 

 

[babspanky]

Omf, what the Mika am I wearing!?

 

 

 

 

 

At least he didn't cancel this one!

[EnFa]

At least he didn't cancel this one!

 

But it was a good summer.. When is he coming out, I mean, his Cd coming out?

[babspanky]

But it was a good summer.. When is he coming out, I mean, his Cd coming out?

 

Word on the street is September, some say May. I'll let you know.

[S&M]

But it was a good summer.. When is he coming out, I mean, his Cd coming out?

That deserves a "boom-tish!".

[sienna]

But it was a good summer.. When is he coming out, I mean, his Cd coming out?

 

That deserves a "boom-tish!".

 

 

 

 

 

Only in the Apples.

[EnFa]

It will soon be my birthday - Then I have go vote and stuff.. Noo.. I'm gonna remove a candle from my cake!

[babspanky]

It will soon be my birthday - Then I have go vote and stuff.. Noo.. I'm gonna remove a candle from my cake!

 

No, I'm removing a candle from my cake!

[EnFa]

No, I'm removing a candle from my cake!

 

You have to fight me first - damn! I love that cake! It's with daim, whipped cream.. Stuff and rice crispies! Mm!

[sienna]

You have to fight me first - damn! I love that cake! It's with daim, whipped cream.. Stuff and rice crispies! Mm!

 

Happy birthday!

 

We have never met but you are the closest to me geographically seen right now!

[babspanky]

You have to fight me first - damn! I love that cake! It's with daim, whipped cream.. Stuff and rice crispies! Mm!

 

Cake with Dime (Daim) bars???

[EnFa]

Happy birthday!

 

We have never met but you are the closest to me geographically seen right now!

 

Thanks! Hälsa mormor du! Yeah, pretty close!

 

Cake with Dime (Daim) bars???

 

You really got some spelling issues, you know that? Yep, it's with "dime" bars. It's actully pretty gross, and it's a sugarbomb and it will make you round around in circles for an hour or so, but it's delicious!!!!

[babspanky]

Thanks! Hälsa mormor du! Yeah, pretty close!

 

 

 

You really got some spelling issues, you know that? Yep, it's with "dime" bars. It's actully pretty gross, and it's a sugarbomb and it will make you round around in circles for an hour or so, but it's delicious!!!!

 

Sounds good! I don't know what they are called now, but they used to be called Dime here. I think they may have changed it to Diam though.

[EnFa]

And no. Now it's my birthday, and I can never go back. I really hate numbers!!!

[babspanky]

And no. Now it's my birthday, and I can never go back. I really hate numbers!!!

 

Isn't your birthday friday the 13th?

[EnFa]

Isn't your birthday friday the 13th?

 

No, sadly it's not I never use my real birthday on those application-things.. On facebook it says the 14th!