XL REPUBBLICA - how Mika keeps himself busy ;-)

[guylainem123]

ok... can we give this topic a rest???

 

people have different points of views, talking/arguing about it until kingdom come, won't change anything.

 

[atreyu]

ok... can we give this topic a rest???

 

people have different points of views, talking/arguing about it until kingdom come, won't change anything.

 

 

+1

this is why I was afraid of saying my opinion... this tipe discutions always end badly

 

 

[Fmbm]

ok... can we give this topic a rest???

 

people have different points of views, talking/arguing about it until kingdom come, won't change anything.

 

 

Agreed. We all have different opinions about things and that's fine, but going on about something endlessly won't change a person's mind.

[suzie]

+1

this is why I was afraid of saying my opinion... this tipe discutions always end badly

 

 

Well, despite being afraid to give your opinion, I noticed that you kept posting the same arguments in several posts. So I actually wonder if you might simply be afraid of being proven wrong or not being able to come up with arguments that support your view?

(This is just a general question to everyone ponder about:wink2:)

 

 

Agreed. We all have different opinions about things and that's fine, but going on about something endlessly won't change a person's mind.

 

yes, I agree. How about people coming with new arguments instead of endlessly repeating the same thing?

 

On the other hand, I noticed that some people fully miss the point of some posts. For example, when it was made clear by several MFCers that they meant to support the right for women to end pregnancy if the baby has some severe chromosomal disorder, some comments kept repeating how children with disabilites can have a full life ..etc. So, for some people it might feel like they have been talking to a brick wall.

 

Also, it was absolutely made clear earlier that the main question here is not if abortion is right or wrong but if women should have the choice to terminate a pregnancy and under what circumstances they should do so.

I don't think it is a black or white issue and there are several aspects that have not been discussed yet here. For example, Caz showed the examples of existing regulations in 2 countries. In some countries there are no regulations at all, whilst in others abortion is just simply forbidden as is considered to be a criminal act.

I personally would like to hear further opinions about this topic.

[RAK1]

Well, despite being afraid to give your opinion, I noticed that you kept posting the same arguments in several posts. So I actually wonder if you might simply be afraid of being proven wrong or not being able to come up with arguments that support your view?

(This is just a general question to everyone ponder about:wink2:)

 

 

 

 

yes, I agree. How about people coming with new arguments instead of endlessly repeating the same thing?

 

On the other hand, I noticed that some people fully miss the point of some posts. For example, when it was made clear by several MFCers that they meant to support the right for women to end pregnancy if the baby has some severe chromosomal disorder, some comments kept repeating how children with disabilites can have a full life ..etc. So, for some people it might feel like they have been talking to a brick wall.

 

Also, it was absolutely made clear earlier that the main question here is not if abortion is right or wrong but if women should have the choice to terminate a pregnancy and under what circumstances they should do so.

I don't think it is a black or white issue and there are several aspects that have not been discussed yet here. For example, Caz showed the examples of existing regulations in 2 countries. In some countries there are no regulations at all, whilst in others abortion is just simply forbidden as is considered to be a criminal act.

I personally would like to hear further opinions about this topic.

 

Maybe start a new thread, as this one seems to have got hijacked by this one issue, which clearly is one that many people have different views about. And it wasn't the only issue that was mentioned in the original article.

This could clearly run til the next column, but I'm sure there are other topics from this column that can be discussed in equal measure.

[robertina]

well

we have not encouraged discussions like this in the past cause we know they lead to problems.

so please keep in mind this is MIKA fanclub, made to enjoy him and his music/art.

 

secondly, this is a thread for Mika and his column in XL repubblica, so i think this discussion has gone on for too long already.

[suzie]

Maybe start a new thread, as this one seems to have got hijacked by this one issue, which clearly is one that many people have different views about. And it wasn't the only issue that was mentioned in the original article.

 

true, so should we discuss his views on pro gay union then?

 

 

well

we have not encouraged discussions like this in the past cause we know they lead to problems. so please keep in mind this is MIKA fanclub, made to enjoy him and his music/art.

 

secondly, this is a thread for Mika and his column in XL repubblica, so i think this discussion has gone on for too long already.

 

In all honesty, I really don't see much problem here, Robi.

 

There are several things that upset MFCers. For example, photos that some consider 'inappropriate'. Or even posts that some fans with a more grown-up mentality (not necessarily only older fans) consider silly. Sometimes members, instead of voicing their opinion, simply decide to leave the forum because of that (i.e. the forum being too childish).

And when we finally have something we can exchange our views on, it is declared that it can lead to problems. I don't think discussions can lead to problems. People who are hurt if their opinion differs from the others, have their own problem that needs to be sorted out somewhere else.

 

The only problem I can see here is not allowing mature discussions on MFC and making fans leave like they did in the past.

 

I AM PRO VOICING OPINION

[sariflor]

true, so should we discuss his views on pro gay union then?

 

 

 

 

In all honesty, I really don't see much problem here, Robi.

 

There are several things that upset MFCers. For example, photos that some consider 'inappropriate'. Or even posts that some fans with a more grown-up mentality (not necessarily only older fans) consider silly. Sometimes members, instead of voicing their opinion, simply decide to leave the forum because of that (i.e. the forum being too childish).

And when we finally have something we can exchange our views on, it is declared that it can lead to problems. I don't think discussions can lead to problems. People who are hurt if their opinion differs from the others, have their own problem that needs to be sorted out somewhere else.

 

The only problem I can see here is not allowing mature discussions on MFC and making fans leave like they did in the past.

 

I AM PRO VOICING OPINION

 

Just wanted to back you up on this. It's very true. Many intelligent, rational, articulate and interesting MFC'ers have left in the past for that reason. They find it frustrating that any interesting discussion is immediately labelled as "problematic" and killed off, and that MFC is, as a result of that, dumbified

Things can be discussed with respect, and that is just real life. I fear that by killing any difference in opinions off and labelling them as problems means that things end up not having any siubstance, and being incredibly boring.

MFC was once a place that was thriving with interesting people having interesting debates. We can make it that again. We just need to lose the excessive censure, IMO.

[laura*]

 

yes, I agree. How about people coming with new arguments instead of endlessly repeating the same thing?

 

On the other hand, I noticed that some people fully miss the point of some posts. For example, when it was made clear by several MFCers that they meant to support the right for women to end pregnancy if the baby has some severe chromosomal disorder, some comments kept repeating how children with disabilites can have a full life ..etc. So, for some people it might feel like they have been talking to a brick wall.

 

Also, it was absolutely made clear earlier that the main question here is not if abortion is right or wrong but if women should have the choice to terminate a pregnancy and under what circumstances they should do so.

I don't think it is a black or white issue and there are several aspects that have not been discussed yet here. For example, Caz showed the examples of existing regulations in 2 countries. In some countries there are no regulations at all, whilst in others abortion is just simply forbidden as is considered to be a criminal act.

I personally would like to hear further opinions about this topic.

 

I think we have definitely made a step forward last night!

The main misunderstanding was thinking about abortion as a way to prevent disabled children to come to life. Now everything is clear! Choice means that a woman who doesn't want her baby (disabled or perfectly healthy) has a right to end her pregnancy legally.

You can find a map of the countries where abortion is legal on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion

These are the statistics (not up-to-date, though):

http://www.abortionfacts.com/statistics/world_statistics.asp

The EU also publishes its own statistics of the abortion rate.

Abortion in Italy and Great Britain is not that different. But the British law is even harsher that the Italian one: you can have an abortion until the 22nd week (if I'm not mistaken), while in Italy it's until the 12th week. In both countries you can abort healthy babies. Otherwise why would Irish women (who can't get an abortion in Eire, because it's still illegal) have a right to travel to Great Britain to have an abortion?

These are the abortion statistics for the UK:

http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/ab-unitedkingdom.html

Edited October 8, 2010 by laura*

[Christine]

I AM PRO VOICING OPINION

 

I agree with this generally of course but there are a couple of problems here IMO. First of all people are going into full blown debate here and not just voicing their opinions about whether they agree or not with what Mika has said in his column.

 

Secondly the thread is an ongoing one about the contents of several of his columns and not a platform for abortion debate. As such people who wish to avoid this subject are not really in a position to do so as this is a news thread about Mika and reading news about Mika is the primary purpose of the forum for many, especially in news threads.

 

I think this subject in particular is a difficult one because you are talking about people's fundamental beliefs about the nature and value of life. You can't debate this with facts and figures. You're not talking about changing someone's mind on a point of fact. You're talking about changing someone's value system and it's not going to happen on a Mika forum. General discussion about what goes on in various countries is interesting, but an involved debate is pointless IMO and this isn't the forum for it, especially in a news thread.

[RAK1]

Just wanted to back you up on this. It's very true. Many intelligent, rational, articulate and interesting MFC'ers have left in the past for that reason. They find it frustrating that any interesting discussion is immediately labelled as "problematic" and killed off, and that MFC is, as a result of that, dumbified

 

Things can be discussed with respect, and that is just real life. I fear that by killing any difference in opinions off and labelling them as problems means that things end up not having any siubstance, and being incredibly boring.

MFC was once a place that was thriving with interesting people having interesting debates. We can make it that again. We just need to lose the excessive censure, IMO.

 

 

That's why I suggested making separate threads for them, otherwise this one thread, with all it's different topics and views will spill over and we'll end up with only a couple of columns making a thread each time.

And I don't think butting heads with two moderators is a good idea.

Like I said is more than the two topics we have discussed here, in the column, and we seem to have gone around in a circle with the current one.

[sienna]

Sigh!

[sariflor]

That's why I suggested making separate threads for them, otherwise this one thread, with all it's different topics and views will spill over and we'll end up with only a couple of columns making a thread each time.

And I don't think butting heads with two moderators is a good idea.

Like I said is more than the two topics we have discussed here, in the column, and we seem to have gone around in a circle with the current one.

I really wasn't going to comment again,as I stand by what I said last night (i'm done with this discussion) but I feel the need to point out that nobody's butting heads with anyone :shock:

 

About discussing topics like these, I agree with what has been said re having separate threads for them if people think that that is better.

[guylainem123]

I agree with this generally of course but there are a couple of problems here IMO. First of all people are going into full blown debate here and not just voicing their opinions about whether they agree or not with what Mika has said in his column.

 

Secondly the thread is an ongoing one about the contents of several of his columns and not a platform for abortion debate. As such people who wish to avoid this subject are not really in a position to do so as this is a news thread about Mika and reading news about Mika is the primary purpose of the forum for many, especially in news threads.

 

I think this subject in particular is a difficult one because you are talking about people's fundamental beliefs about the nature and value of life. You can't debate this with facts and figures. You're not talking about changing someone's mind on a point of fact. You're talking about changing someone's value system and it's not going to happen on a Mika forum. General discussion about what goes on in various countries is interesting, but an involved debate is pointless IMO and this isn't the forum for it, especially in a news thread.

 

my point exactly!

[dcdeb]

I think this subject in particular is a difficult one because you are talking about people's fundamental beliefs about the nature and value of life. You can't debate this with facts and figures. You're not talking about changing someone's mind on a point of fact. You're talking about changing someone's value system and it's not going to happen on a Mika forum. General discussion about what goes on in various countries is interesting, but an involved debate is pointless IMO and this isn't the forum for it, especially in a news thread.

 

I don't think there's anything else I could add to this -- Christine has summed

up my feelings on the subject quite well.

[atreyu]

Well, despite being afraid to give your opinion, I noticed that you kept posting the same arguments in several posts. So I actually wonder if you might simply be afraid of being proven wrong or not being able to come up with arguments that support your view?

(This is just a general question to everyone ponder about:wink2:)

 

Actually I don't mind being proved wrong..I've been, in different topics and changed my point of view

I just know this kind of discutions end up in fights, because people turne from saying their opinion to insulting i have friends that stop talking to each other due to this kind of arguments that's just sad

so yeah I'm scared that this kind of thing will happen here and people will end up mad at each other and that's what I want to avoid, but I still wanted to say what my opinion

 

 

I think this subject in particular is a difficult one because you are talking about people's fundamental beliefs about the nature and value of life. You can't debate this with facts and figures. You're not talking about changing someone's mind on a point of fact. You're talking about changing someone's value system and it's not going to happen on a Mika forum. General discussion about what goes on in various countries is interesting, but an involved debate is pointless IMO and this isn't the forum for it, especially in a news thread.

 

agree!

 

I'll stop talking about it here

Edited October 8, 2010 by atreyu
spelling

[suzie]

I don't think there's anything else I could add to this -- Christine has summed

up my feelings on the subject quite well.

 

I agree with that, too. However, I don’t think that there is a clear dividing line between a general discussion and an involved debate in this case as this topic involves religious views and most people will have strong opinion on that. Besides, I don’t believe that just because you can’t persuade people of your own views, you shouldn’t be sharing them.

 

Actually I don't mind being proved wrong..I've been, in different topics and changed my point of view

It happens to me, too, that I start wondering or even change my opinion. I usually collect arguments I feel proven to make up my own mind about things. This abortion topic, though, I really got tired of, so I won't add more until someone comes up with something new.

 

Sigh!

No, it is not too late - I am still interested in what you wanted to say:wink2:

[sienna]

 

It happens to me, too, that I start wondering or even change my opinion. I usually collect arguments I feel proven to make up my own mind about things. This abortion topic, though, I really got tired of, so I won't add more until someone comes up with something new.

 

 

No, it is not too late - I am still interested in what you wanted to say:wink2:

 

I just thought the topic was interesting and like I said on twitter a little disappointed that the discussion was asked to stop.

You get so spoiled living in a country where human rights are mostly taken for granted and I found it really interesting to read what people had to say about this subject.

[atreyu]

true, so should we discuss his views on pro gay union then?

 

lets!

I'm pro gay union:biggrin2:

btw I'm a bit confussed cause I think gay = homo men and women

 

But someone told me gay was just for gay men

and that's why there's the term lesbian

is it really like that?

 

I just thought the topic was interesting and like I said on twitter a little disappointed that the discussion was asked to stop.

You get so spoiled living in a country where human rights are mostly taken for granted and I found it really interesting to read what people had to say about this subject.

we can still talk about it ...

but in another thread, was what was asked here:thumb_yello:

[RAK1]

lets!

I'm pro gay union:biggrin2:

btw I'm a bit confussed cause I think gay = homo men and women

 

But someone told me gay was just for gay men

and that's why there's the term lesbian

is it really like that?

 

 

we can still talk about it ...

but in another thread, was what was asked here:thumb_yello:

 

Me too, I don't have a problem with gay people getting hitched, love is love whatever your gender.

I think the term gay covers both genders, although the GLBT has them separately. I would have thought they would have preferred the terminology to be correct.

[atreyu]

Me too, I don't have a problem with gay people getting hitched, love is love whatever your gender.

I think the term gay covers both genders, although the GLBT has them separately. I would have thought they would have preferred the terminology to be correct.

 

oh I see! didn't know about the GLBT just googled it

thanks

[laura*]

A few years ago I read in a newspaper that divorce attoneys are all pro gay union.

[toy_girl_mika96]

Me too, I don't have a problem with gay people getting hitched, love is love whatever your gender.

I think the term gay covers both genders, although the GLBT has them separately. I would have thought they would have preferred the terminology to be correct.

agree

[AnnaMariaPetra]

Just curious Laura: What are you trying to do here with such a remark?

Causing another heated debate, perhaps?

 

A few years ago I read in a newspaper that divorce attoneys are all pro gay union.

[southeast]

Just curious Laura: What are you trying to do here with such a remark?

Causing another heated debate, perhaps?

 

I think it's funny! Of course they are pro, 'cause it means more divorces and this means more money.... I am surrounded by lawyers in the family...

But hey, no matter why they are pro, it's still a good thing, isn't it? I am a practical person, so I think as long as someone's pro, no matter why, that's good.

 

I somehow missed the decision about the thread - is there going to be a new one opened for the new Mika column so pple can go on discussing these scary topics on this one? Didn't understand what was the agreement on that?