XL REPUBBLICA - how Mika keeps himself busy ;-)

[basicamenteyo]

How is anyone living on these minimum wages? The minimum wage here is 300€ per week.

 

per week??????????????

 

 

 

 

really?? well i assume that everything there is more expensive... for exemple,here... i don´t know how you call that... a stick of bread costs 0,70,so... and for exemple,chicken costs like 4€ per kg....

 

i´m not saying that a family can survive with 421€... (in fact my mortgage is over that amount) but it´s what government pays if you are unemployed. it lasts 2 years,after that time,you will recieve NOTHING

[Christine]

ohhhhhhh north america discovers southern europe!

 

I guess that explains why the Brits retire to Spain.

[basicamenteyo]

To begin with, most people do not have to pay mortgage, especially if they live in the countryside as it is usually a home they inherited from their parents / grandparents / they live in the same house with their parents...etc.

Some people grow vegetables in their garden, keep domestic animals so that they don't have to worry about food.

The poorest do not even work just get social benefits and they usually heat their houses with wood they get from nearby forests...etc...

 

It is an absolutely different type of living in the countryside of most of these Eastern European countries that is difficult to imagine in the Western world.

 

in my country people is going back to parents houses because of the lack of money... but about growing vegetables.... well,it´s only in very small villages,in fact that is not very usual nowadays here... (so sad,cause it´s a great way of getting food)...

[basicamenteyo]

I guess that explains why the Brits retire to Spain.

 

indeed

 

more and more brits come here each year... a couple of brits perfectly can have like 2000€ per month after their retirement...so they live here as maharajaes.....

[suzie]

politics is helping ONLY the workers,not the businessmen. and if your country doesn´t help the businessmen THEY WON´T CREATE EMPLOY!! to me is easy... instead of giving money to the banks,our government should help the businessmen to create employ... but again,we never protest cause a left-wing party has its own ideas,and of course they won´t change. we need to change the government.......

 

here we had a change in government this March. The right wing party had a landslide victory as the left wing turned out to be corrupt at all levels so people got pretty fed up. The economic situation here is similar to Spain with an economic decline and increasing unemployment that the new government is trying to fight with decreased tax rates paid by employers (in order to attract inverstors and help small companies ) and also significant reductions in income tax to whiten the economy as we have a serious problem with people not paying taxes (basically from next year we will no longer have progressive taxing, so everyone will pay according to the same rate). To have money finance all this, the government taxed certain sectors (energy, telecommunications, FMCG retailers)..and that is all good...

Slight problem is that in the meantime they also decided to force people to take their private pension scheme back to the state scheme (whilst over 10 years ago people were forced to choose the private scheme ) - so now our budget looks fine but anyone except for morons can see that it is basically stealing people's money to cover gaps in the budget so investors do not rank Hungary that high after all

...and that will create further mistrust, not help the economy but make the local currency lose value that will make mortgage rates increase further...etc Inflation is expected to be around 4-6 % next year...etc.

so, rather uncertain times, I am afraid, despite me, personally, expected to benefit from all these tax cuts

[Christine]

It is an absolutely different type of living in the countryside of most of these Eastern European countries that is difficult to imagine in the Western world.

 

Yes it is difficult to imagine. Here being poor means you have to live with last year's mobile phone model. :rolls_eyes:

 

i´m not saying that a family can survive with 421€... (in fact my mortgage is over that amount) but it´s what government pays if you are unemployed. it lasts 2 years,after that time,you will recieve NOTHING

 

Hmm...maybe we are talking about different things then. Our unemployment pays 55% of your working wage, to a maximum of $457/week. So if you were earning $40,000/year before you lost your job for example, you would get $423/week. This lasts for about a year and then you would have to go on welfare which is a much different situation and depends on your circumstances.

 

The "minimum wage" is the rate that employers must pay their employees per hour. It's $10.25 so a 40-hour week would be $410/week or approximately 300€.

[basicamenteyo]

here we had a change in government this March. The right wing party had a landslide victory as the left wing turned out to be corrupt at all levels so people got pretty fed up. The economic situation here is similar to Spain with an economic decline and increasing unemployment that the new government is trying to fight with decreased tax rates paid by employers (in order to attract inverstors and help small companies ) and also significant reductions in income tax to whiten the economy as we have a serious problem with people not paying taxes (basically from next year we will no longer have progressive taxing, so everyone will pay according to the same rate). To have money finance all this, the government taxed certain sectors (energy, telecommunications, FMCG retailers)..and that is all good...

Slight problem is that in the meantime they also decided to force people to take their private pension scheme back to the state scheme (whilst over 10 years ago people were forced to choose the private scheme ) - so now our budget looks fine but anyone except for morons can see that it is basically stealing people's money to cover gaps in the budget so investors do not rank Hungary that high after all

...and that will create further mistrust, not help the economy but make the local currency lose value that will make mortgage rates increase further...etc Inflation is expected to be around 4-6 % next year...etc.

so, rather uncertain times, I am afraid, despite me, personally, expected to benefit from all these tax cuts

 

woow... i think whole europe is almost the same..... in spain things are exactly like in hungary.... i think the unitary coin has f*cked us up... our country is doing everything as yours... less than taxing sectors like telecomunication or energy cause THEY´RE ALREADY TAXED!! and now as our president has less brain than a mushroom he is selling now the national lottery... i mean... they are going to make it private (sorry,my english...) it gives LOTS of money to the government each day,but since they need to balance the national budget,they need to sell things to increase the state revenue... of course they will save next balance,but they don´t think they are going to stop receiving lots of money each day... i don´t know... but i don´t think it that difficult to solve problems... if instead of thinking about how to increase their pockets,they would think about doing things fine,i really think it would be solved in a couple of years... but courruption is all over the world i guess.....

[basicamenteyo]

Yes it is difficult to imagine. Here being poor means you have to live with last year's mobile phone model. :rolls_eyes:

 

 

 

Hmm...maybe we are talking about different things then. Our unemployment pays 55% of your working wage, to a maximum of $457/week. So if you were earning $40,000/year before you lost your job for example, you would get $423/week. This lasts for about a year and then you would have to go on welfare which is a much different situation and depends on your circumstances.

 

The "minimum wage" is the rate that employers must pay their employees per hour. It's $10.25 so a 40-hour week would be $410/week or approximately 300€.

 

oh i see.. here is the same. we calculate it here depending on your last 6 months salary. they pay you 70% of your salary during the first 6 months (people earning 1000€,would get 700€) and the rest (a year and a half if you have worked at last 4 years), 60%.

 

i think it´s better how germany does that. if you are unemployed they will pay you a salary that you must to pay back when you get a new employ,doesn´t matter how long it takes. then,you get an employ and they deduct you a percentage of your salary until you return it all. i think it´s a good idea cause it motivates you to get an employ as soon as possible since no one wants to be returning back a lot of money...

[macboll]

Yes I think French people still has the capability to unit themselves for good causes, mainly on fighting for human rights.

We had, few years ago, a huge mobilisation for Ingrid Bettencourt's liberation, hostage in Columbia or even more recently for Sakineh, the iranian woman sentenced to death for murderer..

These are often ponctual non-violent protests and generally covered by a political organisation..

 

For us, it's quite usual

Does France is the only country to have this kind of protests?

 

Françoise! Yes we don't only demonstrate for our own selfish interests in France. It is what our government or foreign newspapers (like the tabloids) would like all the rest of the world to believe. We also demonstrate to fight for human rights, against racism, or give our support to people who will lose their job because of profits, social dumping and this stupid craving for always more money (example: Total made huge profits in 2009 but will sack thousands of people in France and develop their Polish industry instead).

[Sabine64]

oh i see.. here is the same. we calculate it here depending on your last 6 months salary. they pay you 70% of your salary during the first 6 months (people earning 1000€,would get 700€) and the rest (a year and a half if you have worked at last 4 years), 60%.

 

i think it´s better how germany does that. if you are unemployed they will pay you a salary that you must to pay back when you get a new employ,doesn´t matter how long it takes. then,you get an employ and they deduct you a percentage of your salary until you return it all. i think it´s a good idea cause it motivates you to get an employ as soon as possible since no one wants to be returning back a lot of money...

 

Sorry Rosa, I think you are a little wrong about our systhem in Germany. If you have work you pay every month 10% of your salary for an unemployment insurence. When you get unemployed you will get 60% of your last salary for a year then you have to give all your money you have and then you will get Harz4 which is ca 430.- Euro per month. So we pay before we get anything.

[Christine]

Sorry Rosa, I think you are a little wrong about our systhem in Germany. If you have work you pay every month 10% of your salary for an unemployment insurence. When you get unemployed you will get 60% of your last salary for a year then you have to give all your money you have and then you will get Harz4 which is ca 430.- Euro per month. So we pay before we get anything.

 

10% of your salary goes towards unemployment insurance? They should just let people invest it privately. Unless you are not very employable you would end up with a lot more money in the long run. That's outrageous to pay so much out and get so little back.

 

Ours is 1.73% and you only pay it on earnings up to $43,000 per year, since that is the maximum you can collect on. If you were earning $80,000 per year for instance, then your unemployment insurance deductions would be less than 1% of your salary.

[CazGirl]

I guess that explains why the Brits retire to Spain.

 

I used to earn £4.97 per hour where I used to work

[Naectegale]

here we had a change in government this March. The right wing party had a landslide victory as the left wing turned out to be corrupt at all levels so people got pretty fed up. The economic situation here is similar to Spain with an economic decline and increasing unemployment that the new government is trying to fight with decreased tax rates paid by employers (in order to attract inverstors and help small companies ) and also significant reductions in income tax to whiten the economy as we have a serious problem with people not paying taxes (basically from next year we will no longer have progressive taxing, so everyone will pay according to the same rate). To have money finance all this, the government taxed certain sectors (energy, telecommunications, FMCG retailers)..and that is all good...

Slight problem is that in the meantime they also decided to force people to take their private pension scheme back to the state scheme (whilst over 10 years ago people were forced to choose the private scheme ) - so now our budget looks fine but anyone except for morons can see that it is basically stealing people's money to cover gaps in the budget so investors do not rank Hungary that high after all

...and that will create further mistrust, not help the economy but make the local currency lose value that will make mortgage rates increase further...etc Inflation is expected to be around 4-6 % next year...etc.

so, rather uncertain times, I am afraid, despite me, personally, expected to benefit from all these tax cuts

 

That sounds like a nightmare to me - It's depressing when corruption takes hold - so difficult to get things straight again

[IngievV]

Is it protests, too, or only strikes? (I am only asking as I haven't been following French politics)

 

Well, when I was in Amsterdam 2 weeks ago to go to a gig, there was a protest against the VAT rate raise of cultural events, such as theatre and concerts and it was called: The Netherlands screams for culture. A lot of people showed up and everyone screamed but it made no difference at all.

 

Right now, the postmen are all going on strike again because they want more money, which means all Christmas cards will be delayed or won't arrive. But I can't worry about that.

 

What concerns me most is that the government wants to fine students who have a study delay of a year. It's not a small fine, it's 3000 euros. Also they want to cut the study finance and you won't get any money if you want to do a Master after your bachelor. But on the other hand they do want Holland to get back in the top 5 of knowledge countries. I wonder how they want to do that if they discourage people of studying.

 

All these cuts 'had' to be made, according to the government, now even bringing your kid to daycare will cost you lots of money, which a lot of families don't have. And then our prime minister does tell FIFA that if the worldcup is held in Holland and Belgium, they will do everything FIFA asks them to do, stadiums would be expanded, a lot of money invested. And that made me personally very angry. Instead of giving that money to education etc. they want to give it to a corrupt organisation.

[basicamenteyo]

Sorry Rosa, I think you are a little wrong about our systhem in Germany. If you have work you pay every month 10% of your salary for an unemployment insurence. When you get unemployed you will get 60% of your last salary for a year then you have to give all your money you have and then you will get Harz4 which is ca 430.- Euro per month. So we pay before we get anything.

 

oh,thanx for explaining that... then i was told it wrong...

then it´s the same as in spain... here we set aside like 4% of our salary every month (time before,when people never got unemployed they got aside that money to pensions) and then... well,i´ve already said that...

 

so,one question... do those 430€ last forever? i mean.. if you don´t get a job...

[suzie]

now as our president has less brain than a mushroom he is selling now the national lottery... i mean... they are going to make it private (sorry,my english...) it gives LOTS of money to the government each day,but since they need to balance the national budget,they need to sell things to increase the state revenue... .

 

That sounds really silly as it must be one of the few companies that are profitable in the long run. So it is basically sacrificing the future for short term gains. The saddest thing is that they are only doing it for the EU to be more pleased with the budget after this artificial makeover It is not helping anyone, just making it look better on paper when everyone knows it is not the case

 

Yes we don't only demonstrate for our own selfish interests in France. It is what our government or foreign newspapers (like the tabloids) would like all the rest of the world to believe. We also demonstrate to fight for human rights, against racism, or give our support to people who will lose their job because of profits, social dumping and this stupid craving for always more money.

 

yes, this is the explanation I wanted to hear from France, thanks. You seem to be doing a great job over there

 

 

It's depressing when corruption takes hold - so difficult to get things straight again

Yes, that is right. And it is even more difficult when people at all levels expect corruption to be present and are not even appalled by it since it has been going on for decades. You cannot change people's attitude, you need to take radical measures first so that people realise it is not tolerated.

[Sabine64]

10% of your salary goes towards unemployment insurance? They should just let people invest it privately. Unless you are not very employable you would end up with a lot more money in the long run. That's outrageous to pay so much out and get so little back.

 

Ours is 1.73% and you only pay it on earnings up to $43,000 per year, since that is the maximum you can collect on. If you were earning $80,000 per year for instance, then your unemployment insurance deductions would be less than 1% of your salary.

 

We have to pay for over 3,5 millions of people without work and our social systhem decided that they need that much money.

 

 

oh,thanx for explaining that... then i was told it wrong...

then it´s the same as in spain... here we set aside like 4% of our salary every month (time before,when people never got unemployed they got aside that money to pensions) and then... well,i´ve already said that...

 

so,one question... do those 430€ last forever? i mean.. if you don´t get a job...

 

Harz4 you can get as long as you don´t find a job, it´s not only 430 Euro, they pay for a flat, if you have children you get a special amount of money for them every month. Sometimes a familily can get 1500 Euros ( inclusive the rent for a flat and electricity and heater ) and more and so some people don´t search for a job. But if the unemployent insurence discovers taht you don´t look for a job they will cut the money. I think most of the people search for jobs but we have enough people who will never work for an hour......

[basicamenteyo]

We have to pay for over 3,5 millions of people without work and our social systhem decided that they need that much money.

 

 

 

 

Harz4 you can get as long as you don´t find a job, it´s not only 430 Euro, they pay for a flat, if you have children you get a special amount of money for them every month. Sometimes a familily can get 1500 Euros ( inclusive the rent for a flat and electricity and heater ) and more and so some people don´t search for a job. But if the unemployent insurence discovers taht you don´t look for a job they will cut the money. I think most of the people search for jobs but we have enough people who will never work for an hour......

 

oh thank you so much.... so i was told right... people get money if they can´t find an employ... but i´m sure the same problem would be here in spain... people wouldn´t look for an employ....

[suzie]

Just heard the car of Charles & Camilla was attacked by people demonstrating against the Parliament having voted for a rise in tuition fees

They were unharmed but I would have never thought of it ever happening in the UK.

[Sabine64]

Just heard the car of Charles & Camilla was attacked by people demonstrating against the Parliament having voted for a rise in tuition fees

They were unharmed but I would have never thought of it ever happening in the UK.

 

I can understand the fear and the anger of the student but I don´t understand their actions. They ruin everything with actions like burning christmas trees and attacking the crown prince or other people.

[Christine]

They were unharmed but I would have never thought of it ever happening in the UK.

 

I don't know what the circumstances were (I only saw something about it on a television screen when I was at lunch), but I can tell you that widely publicized demonstrations always attract a hooligan crowd who just jump on the bandwagon to cause chaos.

 

Canadians are the most politically apathetic and peaceful bunch imaginable but we had to close down the entire city centre for a week and erect walls (basically enacting martial law) for the G20 summit in June. Even with unprecedented levels of security and the residents and workers of Toronto vacating the area, people were still setting police cars on fire, etc.

 

As long as the world's attention is on a demonstration it is bound to get out of hand because you are always going to have these hooligans taking advantage of the situation. I was trapped in a demonstration in The City in London for hours and ended up having to walk for miles to get out of it because traffic was jammed. People were hanging from lamposts and getting confrontational with police. It's a scary situation when there are thousands of people involved and it's difficult to escape the area. Mob mentality takes over and the mob and police are unpredictable even if you're in a "civilized" country.

[Eglė]

and now as our president has less brain than a mushroom he is selling now the national lottery... i mean... they are going to make it private (sorry,my english...) it gives LOTS of money to the government each day,but since they need to balance the national budget,they need to sell things to increase the state revenue... of course they will save next balance,but they don´t think they are going to stop receiving lots of money each day... i don´t know... but i don´t think it that difficult to solve problems... if instead of thinking about how to increase their pockets,they would think about doing things fine,i really think it would be solved in a couple of years... but courruption is all over the world i guess.....

 

Oh yeah... Since I'm on Erasmus in Barcelona right now I hear all these news about selling National lottery and privatization of Aena (airports Barajas and El Prat, that is, right?) and other cuts. Moreover, since I'm in Catalunya, I hear so many complaints about Madrid's policy towards this Autonomous Community and the way it's being treated unequally. Now that the right party has won the majority here, wonder if the nationalist aspirations will emerge and become more prominent in the politics.

 

About retiring in Spain (who said that, I'm sorry, didn't click the quote button), following the explanation of one controversial pre-elections video, I think it's a perfect place in the south of Spain, but here, much difficult. That is, to be unemployed in Sevilla or Malaga is less of a trouble than in Barcelona.

But anyway, just saying what I hear and the impression I have after 3 months here. But maybe I don't get it right.

(By the way, I've seen Zapatero live, ha, he looks funny, but somehow lacks charisma, imo.)

 

---

In Lithuania's case... It's better to just shut up. But to say it first, in my view, there was no other choice since now we have the conservatives after social democrats who really used countries resources to the fullest. I see it all like this: whoever is elected before/in the time of a crisis is the one to be blamed and punished; whoever is elected in the natural end of a crisis will be the saviour and "the man". What I can see now is that pensioners and mothers are about to burn our Prime Minister alive. Massive cuts on pensions and other social spending. Unemployment peeked, though somehow stabilized right know, as far as I know.

Salaries, ah, make me laugh though tears. People are offered almost the minimum payment (before taxes) and are expected to have university diploma (master is better), experience of 2 years, know foreign language(s), have a driver's licence etc. And then wonder: why no one comes to work? And so we're in this stalemate situation when professionals do not make themselves cheap and employers do not raise salaries. The worst situation is for women, cause they are almost being interrogated if they have a family, plan to have children etc., and in the end no one wants to take the risk employing them. On the other hand, some women are not being honest, use their possible pregnancy as a weapon, work fictitiously and thus steal money for the Social Security. It's like a circle.

The government is searching the for solutions to massive emigration, but the truth is, there are no adequate solutions, just make it better here.

But for me, as a student, the biggest shock (though it will not affect me) was that last year (more or less) we had a major hight education reform, which ruined some of the students' plans to study and basically sold most on them to banks. And some of our studies are more expensive than in Oxford and Harvard, but the quality - a fool knows they should not even be compared. Nice, really nice move...

[macboll]

yes, this is the explanation I wanted to hear from France, thanks. You seem to be doing a great job over there

 

 

Thanks Suzie! But you know that's really difficult to fight for decent living or working conditions when companies or factories are controlled by stockholders and managers whose offices are in a different country. It was easier when you knew your boss. It's also difficult to fight when you have to tight the belt because of an economic crisis (but your president is not concerned and keeps on splashing out public money and keeps a very high wage(he more than doubled his wage)) but you can't yield.

Edited December 9, 2010 by macboll

[sariflor]

and now as our president has less brain than a mushroom he is selling now the national lottery... i mean... they are going to make it private (sorry,my english...) it gives LOTS of money to the government each day,but since they need to balance the national budget,they need to sell things to increase the state revenue... of course they will save next balance,but they don´t think they are going to stop receiving lots of money each day... i don´t know... but i don´t think it that difficult to solve problems... if instead of thinking about how to increase their pockets,they would think about doing things fine,i really think it would be solved in a couple of years... but courruption is all over the world i guess.....

 

Typical case of the good old "pan para hoy, hambre para mañana"

[basicamenteyo]

Oh yeah... Since I'm on Erasmus in Barcelona right now I hear all these news about selling National lottery and privatization of Aena (airports Barajas and El Prat' date=' that is, right?) and other cuts. Moreover, since I'm in Catalunya, I hear so many complaints about Madrid's policy towards this Autonomous Community and the way it's being treated unequally. Now that the right party has won the majority here, wonder if the nationalist aspirations will emerge and become more prominent in the politics.

 

About retiring in Spain (who said that, I'm sorry, didn't click the quote button), following the explanation of one controversial pre-elections video, I think it's a perfect place in the south of Spain, but here, much difficult. That is, to be unemployed in Sevilla or Malaga is less of a trouble than in Barcelona.

But anyway, just saying what I hear and the impression I have after 3 months here. But maybe I don't get it right.

(By the way, I've seen Zapatero live, ha, he looks funny, but somehow lacks charisma, imo.)

 

[/quote']

 

yes you are right in everything you said... less in that thingy about the autonomous comunity... eventhough i love barcelona,i´d love to live there and i love how people love their comunity there,i think they are not right about that. i mean... we are a country who needs to work for the country,not only for the comunity... i´m not going to explain here about the squabbles between autonomus cominities like cataluña or el pais vasco and the country... but even if the right party wins in the comunity (here in valencia the right party is always winning the elections) what really matters in that in central government is the left party which leads... so,it ends up in less money for those comunities where the right party won....

oh man... it´s too hard to explain these things in english

 

but yes,retiring in barcelona is more expensive than retiring in the south or east....

 

and of course... ZAPATERO HAS NO CHARISMA AND AS HE HAS DEMONSTRATE... NO BRAIN!!!

 

Typical case of the good old "pan para hoy, hambre para mañana"

 

yes.... en este pais llevamos ya demasiados años con el pan para hoy... y por desgracia ya esta llegando el mañana,y asi nos va...... NO VUELVAS A ESPAÑA SARA!!!! CORRE!!! CORRE SIN MIRAR ATRAS!!!! :aah: