Emily / She Tells Me - Elle Me Dit in English

[Miss.roxy]

Well,I´m not in his head and I don´t know what he really meant, but what we all thought was that he was referring to the song.. as we all know it was made in a hurry and stuff... maybe he wasn´t that pleased... he was asked to do that french song in order to sell more tickets in Compiegne and we know it´s not the way he likes to work...

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, he said "esta canción es un error" but as he said that in Spanish maybe he wasn´t thinking in "mistake" but in something that happened by accident, I don´t know...

 

Oh, well if it´s true, he´s very good in working under the pressure then!

That song is really good.

[nenartus]

I don't think so. That's what it is.

 

If Mika was doing art for art's sake he would probably be singing in a bar with just his keyboard and selling his CDs after the show. There is a whole machine geared towards getting his product out to the masses. Every time Mika gives an interview he is pitching his product - himself. He is not promoting himself because he enjoys doing that with his time.

 

There's nothing wrong with that. We all do that to one degree or another if we have a job and a career. Every business owner must do this.

 

Not art, for art's sake, but music, for music sake. He is not Tom Waits. He makes pop music, so he anticipates masses, but when you say "product" it sounds so industrial to me. And the machine that pulls everything is still mostly his family.

 

He must promote himself in order to perform, and we all know that he likes to perform as much as he likes to create.

 

And I'm not arguing, I completely understand what you are saying, it's just that "product" word that annoys me. Because what attracted me to Mika's music is that it didn't smell industrial like most of today's music does.

 

And I hate myself for not knowing English better so I can explain what I mean. I hope you'll understand.

[Christine]

Not art, for art's sake, but music, for music sake.

 

I don't think Mika has ever been all about the music. He is wrapped up in artwork, costumes, sets, etc. I don't see it as music for music's sake. Not even with the album, where the visuals are also a high priority for him - so much so that even the record company was surprised that he was focusing on album artwork before he had produced an album.

 

And the machine that pulls everything is still mostly his family.

 

Maybe his stage shows and his artwork but who is getting him radio and video play? Who is booking him into venues and selling tickets to his shows? Who is arranging his interviews and writing his press releases? Who is hooking him up with the world's best producers and songwriters?

 

Did you see that Greg and Mika were getting annoyed with record company execs towards the end of producing TBWKTM because they were trying to force Mika to change some things? Why would he subject himself to these pressures and interference if his family was all he needed to sell 8 million albums?

 

And I'm not arguing, I completely understand what you are saying, it's just that "product" word that annoys me. Because what attracted me to Mika's music is that it didn't smell industrial like most of today's music does.

 

I didn't know much about Mika the first time I saw one of his gigs. But my first thought was that it was more like a record company album launch than a gig. I used to work for a record company back in the day when it wasn't so corporate and they were more concerned about artist development than the bottom line for shareholders. So I guess I just don't have a problem with the concept of MIKA and his music being a product. It doesn't mean that he's fake, or he's compromising or a sell-out. It's just the way you package and distribute ideas and music and provide people with entertainment.

[Julia Welcomes]

I disagree.

I think "product" is a very tough word. I understand what you all mean, but it`s half-true.

 

The word "Product" must be used for those who have no outstanding talent and they need to build a show around themselves in order to be sold as musicians in the modern music industry (show is entourage, i.e - shoking behaviour, scandals, charity...)

 

If you got no innate talent - you have to become a "product" to sell your records, and record industry and ingenious producers join their forces to achieve that.

This way is throwing dust in our eyes. It works, but not for long.

 

Mika - is peculiar talent. It`s obviuos. If he`s a product, than the product of his own personality and creative energy. I don`t deny contributions or participation of his mother and family - they all evidently work on it, but I insist - they`re not the ones who made him. Yes , he knows the rules of show business and he has to play, and he does. That`s normal. But he does not lose his personality, it prevails.

 

Charisma and talent can`t be "produced" neither they are "products".

For me , saying categorically that Mika is a product is denial of his talent.

 

PS. I hope I expressed my idea well, if not - sorry for my English.

[suzie]

I completely understand what you are saying, it's just that "product" word that annoys me. Because what attracted me to Mika's music is that it didn't smell industrial like most of today's music does.

 

The difference in our views is only the way you interpret the word 'product'.

 

A product can be an idea or a service that satisfies a certain need of a group of people. When we are talking about Mika satisfying audience needs, the words 'industrial' or 'profit' do not have to be part of the definition. We are talking about his product appealing to a group of people, the size of which depends on several factors. We are basically discussing these factors.

[suzie]

I wanted to come back to a topic posted earlier but since I did not have time for a longer discussion, let me do it now..

 

Well, if you want to put it that way... No, it doesn't require Marie Antoinette. I meant there was a "French theme". So I thought two songs in French matched really well.

I can't believe I was the only one who liked the new setting and thought it was a nice match with the new songs

I only asked because you mentioned the MA theme as well as the paintings in particular, so I thought you may have noticed something in the lyrics of Karen, for example, that I did not, that might have associated the song to Marie Antoinette or the 18th century.

I understand that the theme fitted well with the setting of the Compiégne gig but not particularly the songs themselves and I wonder what regular festival goers in other countries thought of Mika singing Relax in these costumes.

I mean, I do like Mika using theatrical elements in his shows and appreciate the influences he draws from. However, putting his whole show under the theme of 18th century France seems odd to me, at least the way he did it as there was no (musical) connection of this theme to any of the songs – or at least no-one mentioned them. I would have even understood that if he did the same on the last European tour, for example, as he was using a harpsichord sound on GGG, music from a similar period before HE or Ida singing a Mozart aria. It would have all made sense if they played with costumes then a bit, like Ida dressing up as MA who was Austrian, anyway… Somehow now I cannot not see the musical connection to the theme of the gig at all. If it was meant to be just for the French theme, a picture of the Moulin Rouge in the background for Karen or Mika singing EMD in a beret hat with a cute little moustache drawn on him would have worked just as well or even more.

 

So the fact that I don’t understand the connection does not necessarily mean that I don’t like the use of costumes settings in general, I just like them to support what is happening on stage.

 

Lots of people liked it, you could tell from the gig reports. I think the majority of fans I've come across are interested in the visual stuff from his artwork to his sets.

At the same time, it can also mean that it is mainly people who are interested in his visual stuff who stayed with him and should he put his music in focus again, some of the early fans might return.

[nenartus]

I don't think Mika has ever been all about the music. He is wrapped up in artwork, costumes, sets, etc. I don't see it as music for music's sake. Not even with the album, where the visuals are also a high priority for him - so much so that even the record company was surprised that he was focusing on album artwork before he had produced an album.

 

I agree with that, but you said if Mika was doing art for art's sake he would probably be singing in a bar with just his keyboard and selling his CD's after the show. So I thought that you talk only about music.

 

 

 

Maybe his stage shows and his artwork but who is getting him radio and video play? Who is booking him into venues and selling tickets to his shows? Who is arranging his interviews and writing his press releases? Who is hooking him up with the world's best producers and songwriters?

 

Did you see that Greg and Mika were getting annoyed with record company execs towards the end of producing TBWKTM because they were trying to force Mika to change some things? Why would he subject himself to these pressures and interference if his family was all he needed to sell 8 million albums?

 

It must be a bigger team cause he succeeded to get to masses with his concept, and they can't do everything by themselves. It's understandable, and OK. And the fact that Greg and Mika were getting annoyed (which I didn't know) is just proof that he wanted to do his own thing, and not to be just a product to be sold. Most of today's music sounds just like a product to be sold.

 

 

I didn't know much about Mika the first time I saw one of his gigs. But my first thought was that it was more like a record company album launch than a gig. I used to work for a record company back in the day when it wasn't so corporate and they were more concerned about artist development than the bottom line for shareholders. So I guess I just don't have a problem with the concept of MIKA and his music being a product. It doesn't mean that he's fake, or he's compromising or a sell-out. It's just the way you package and distribute ideas and music and provide people with entertainment.

 

The concept of MIKA sounds much better than Mika the product.

 

I disagree.

I think "product" is a very tough word. I understand what you all mean, but it`s half-true.

 

The word "Product" must be used for those who have no outstanding talent and they need to build a show around themselves in order to be sold as musicians in the modern music industry (show is entourage, i.e - shoking behaviour, scandals, charity...)

 

If you got no innate talent - you have to become a "product" to sell your records, and record industry and ingenious producers join their forces to achieve that.

This way is throwing dust in our eyes. It works, but not for long.

 

Mika - is peculiar talent. It`s obviuos. If he`s a product, than the product of his own personality and creative energy. I don`t deny contributions or participation of his mother and family - they all evidently work on it, but I insist - they`re not the ones who made him. Yes , he knows the rules of show business and he has to play, and he does. That`s normal. But he does not lose his personality, it prevails.

 

Charisma and talent can`t be "produced" neither they are "products".

For me , saying categorically that Mika is a product is denial of his talent.

 

PS. I hope I expressed my idea well, if not - sorry for my English.

 

Of course not, that's not what I said. And i agree with the thing you said about being a product of his own personality and creative energy and not just a product (if I can add, of some producer or record company)

[Christine]

The word "Product" must be used for those who have no outstanding talent and they need to build a show around themselves in order to be sold as musicians in the modern music industry (show is entourage, i.e - shoking behaviour, scandals, charity...)

 

I don't think anyone in the industry makes that distinction. Like you said Mika has to play the game and he was the one packaging himself by creating his own album artwork to fool people into thinking there was a big machine behind him when he was first starting out.

 

I agree with Suzie that we're talking about different things here. No one is saying that Mika is manufactured, inauthentic or lacking in genuine talent. Just that his work is packaged and sold like every single other artist out there whether they are Paul McCartney or Justin Bieber.

 

Mika has even used the term "project" to describe MIKA albeit with an eye roll and an admission that it sounds pretentious. Personally I think it's more pretentious to pretend that you're all about the art/music when it's obvious you and/or the people who have financially invested in you are going to great lengths to sell millions of dollars worth of product. It is what it is.

 

At the same time, it can also mean that it is mainly people who are interested in his visual stuff who stayed with him and should he put his music in focus again, some of the early fans might return.

 

I would hazard a guess that the majority of the people who bought his albums (along with the rest of the world) are not particularly interested in these things either. But I think the people who are drawn to Mika's visual world are the ones we're going to come across most often because they want to investigate/talk about him on the internet.

[tiibet]

I don't think Mika has ever been all about the music. He is wrapped up in artwork, costumes, sets, etc. I don't see it as music for music's sake. Not even with the album, where the visuals are also a high priority for him - so much so that even the record company was surprised that he was focusing on album artwork before he had produced an album.

 

Sometimes it feels he is using more time and energy for album artwork and sets than he is for music. I would love to see him focusing on music, but on the other hand, I find it all quite interesting now when I'm used to it and know how important it seems to be for him.

 

The difference in our views is only the way you interpret the word 'product'.

 

A product can be an idea or a service that satisfies a certain need of a group of people. When we are talking about Mika satisfying audience needs, the words 'industrial' or 'profit' do not have to be part of the definition. We are talking about his product appealing to a group of people, the size of which depends on several factors. We are basically discussing these factors.

 

I'm not sure "satisfying audience needs" sounds any better than a "product". Of course I understand he must sell. There is no record deals without selling enough records. It is his work after all. I guess many fans like to see a good balance there.

 

I mean, I do like Mika using theatrical elements in his shows and appreciate the influences he draws from. However, putting his whole show under the theme of 18th century France seems odd to me, at least the way he did it as there was no (musical) connection of this theme to any of the songs – or at least no-one mentioned them. I would have even understood that if he did the same on the last European tour, for example, as he was using a harpsichord sound on GGG, music from a similar period before HE or Ida singing a Mozart aria. It would have all made sense if they played with costumes then a bit, like Ida dressing up as MA who was Austrian, anyway… Somehow now I cannot not see the musical connection to the theme of the gig at all. If it was meant to be just for the French theme, a picture of the Moulin Rouge in the background for Karen or Mika singing EMD in a beret hat with a cute little moustache drawn on him would have worked just as well or even more.

 

So the fact that I don’t understand the connection does not necessarily mean that I don’t like the use of costumes settings in general, I just like them to support what is happening on stage.

 

 

At the same time, it can also mean that it is mainly people who are interested in his visual stuff who stayed with him and should he put his music in focus again, some of the early fans might return.

 

I think he had an idea of Marie Antoinette and he just wanted to build his show around it. It was really much better and easier for the big audience than his last set.

[suzie]

is just proof that he wanted to do his own thing, and not to be just a product to be sold.

 

…except that many pop stars operate with the same concept (i.e. fighting against their record label). It is almost compulsory to express your dissatisfaction with the label nowadays and say how much you are doing your own thing I believe do believe that for Mika it comes naturally but it was most definitely part of the way he was marketed since the beginning,

I'm not sure "satisfying audience needs" sounds any better than a "product".

 

I did not write it because it sounds better, I defined the concept of a product as some people questioned that Mika /his music was a product. I know it does not sound very poetic but when something is described it needs to be factual.

 

The concept of MIKA sounds much better than Mika the product.

 

I think what we are talking about here is the problem of understanding, describing and accepting abstract concepts, so we are not in disagreement about Mika's attitude at all.

Edited August 11, 2011 by suzie

[tiibet]

I think what we are talking about here is the problem of understanding, describing and accepting abstract concepts, so we are not in disagreement about Mika's attitude at all.

 

I'm sure we are all capable of understanding abstract concepts , we just expect different things from him.

[tiibet]

I did not write it because it sounds better, I defined the concept of a product as some people questioned that Mika /his music was a product. I know it does not sound very poetic but when something is described it needs to be factual.

 

 

I could perfectly understand what you did. Some people don't like to think Mika as a product (even though everyone must agree that of course he is a product at a certain level). So you defined the concept of product to prove your point. I said I'm not sure if it sounds any better, meaning I'm not sure if all people like to think him "satisfying audience needs" either. There is no need to be poetic. But even different people want to see things from a different perspective it doesn't mean we "can't understand abstract concepts". That's exactly the tone that has been bothering me in this conversation from the beginning, but obviously my English is not good enough to go on this.

[suzie]

... and what I don't like is twisting what I said, which is.

"I think what we are talking about here is the problem of understanding, describing and accepting abstract concepts, so we are not in disagreement about Mika's attitude at all."

 

I don't see a problem with my tone, so you might still want to explain why it sounds wrong because I do have a problem you mentioning the second time in this thread that you have a problem with the tone of the conversation.

[Trix the Mubbin]

... Okay, uhm...Have to ask... How did this thread go from the english version of Elle Me Dit to people seemingly starting to get mad at each other?

[suzie]

@trix

I am not angry, just tired.

[Lulle]

Can we get back to topic?

[suzie]

Can we get back to topic?

 

ok, you start. @tiibet is my friend, so it is not as serious as it looks or at least I hope.

[sariflor]

Without wishing to create further discontent, I must say that one of the things that have been putting me off MFC lately is this tendency that some people have to complain when conversations turn into discussions, and demand that things go "back to topic". Seriously, what's wrong with an exchange of opinions or a lively debate on an interesting subject?

It's the most interesting that MFC ever sees, and yet so many are so willing to try and crush it. I don't get it

Having different opinions doesn't mean that people are mad with eachother, or that they should become too sensitive about being contradicted or "the tone" of conversations. We're (hopefully) all adults, mature, and able to exchange our views without feeling hurt and unnecessary drama and aggro.

[tiibet]

Yes, it was off topic, I'm very sorry. Mods feel free to remove the conversation if you want to. I might be the only one who thinks it's quite patronizing to tell that the other participants in the discussion can't understand abstract concepts. I have to use a lot of energy to write in English, it doesn't feel nice if people like to point out there is something wrong with my understanding too. This was nothing personal, we are actual good friends in real life too.

 

I guess I'm used to keep sharing opinions on a neutral level. I can have mine and you can have yours. And I felt I was told I'm stupid every time I told my opinion. Now please don't ask me to quote any posts, I just had a feeling that people are speaking to me like to a child. And because I'm already frustrated (I can't express myself in English well enough) it just didn't feel nice. If I was over-sensitive I must apologize.

Edited August 11, 2011 by tiibet

[suzie]

Agree

 

I am so glad you do .. to be honest, I was worried a bit. So in agreement about Mika's attitude, viewing the concept of what is considered to be a 'product' differently.

 

I'll go and search for another topic we can argue about now:roftl:

[Christine]

Trix can I ask you to please not come into every conversation where people are not agreeing with each other on a point and announce that there's a fight going on?

 

This discussion started because we are wondering what Mika's motivation might be (I say might because no one knows or is claiming to know) for writing Elle Me Dit. I don't think discussing his career and his work is off topic at all.

 

For my part I think I've said what I had to say and I understand the point of Tiibet et al that they don't want to view Mika as a product. I know Mika is an artist (as opposed to a manufactured pop tart) and I believe that he stays true to himself as much as he possibly can within the confines of being represented by a major record label. I just don't happen to think that "product" is a dirty word and until Mika stops packaging his art, marketing his art and charging money for his art then that's the way I'm going to perceive it. We will just have to agree to disagree.

[Lulle]

Without wishing to create further discontent, I must say that one of the things that have been putting me off MFC lately is this tendency that some people have to complain when conversations turn into discussions, and demand that things go "back to topic". Seriously, what's wrong with an exchange of opinions or a lively debate on an interesting subject?

It's the most interesting that MFC ever sees, and yet so many are so willing to try and crush it. I don't get it

Having different opinions doesn't mean that people are mad with eachother, or that they should become too sensitive about being contradicted or "the tone" of conversations. We're (hopefully) all adults, mature, and able to exchange our views without feeling hurt and unnecessary drama and aggro.

 

I just ask because this thread have gone very off topic. It is an interesting discussion, but it kind of ruin the thread, and ruin it for people who wants to discuss the new version of the song but have to go through a lot of pages of this discussion. Just my opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I like this version much better than the french one, it's like I said a few pages back that it seems that this version is written more with his own words since he needed help with the lyrics on the french one.

[silver]

I only asked because you mentioned the MA theme as well as the paintings in particular, so I thought you may have noticed something in the lyrics of Karen, for example, that I did not, that might have associated the song to Marie Antoinette or the 18th century.

I understand that the theme fitted well with the setting of the Compiégne gig but not particularly the songs themselves and I wonder what regular festival goers in other countries thought of Mika singing Relax in these costumes. ....

 

I don't think Mika's thought process went much beyond "Oh! An historic French villa. Let's dress up in 18th century costumes".

[babspanky]

I don't think Mika's thought process went much beyond "Oh! An historic French villa. Let's dress up in 18th century costumes".

 

I don't want to believe that........

[tiibet]

 

For my part I think I've said what I had to say and I understand the point of Tiibet et al that they don't want to view Mika as a product. I know Mika is an artist (as opposed to a manufactured pop tart) and I believe that he stays true to himself as much as he possibly can within the confines of being represented by a major record label. I just don't happen to think that "product" is a dirty word and until Mika stops packaging his art, marketing his art and charging money for his art then that's the way I'm going to perceive it. We will just have to agree to disagree.

 

I have actually no problems with talking about "product". We can't deny some things however idealistic we want to be (and I often want ). But I liked this expression (from nenartis if I remember right):

 

"Because what attracted me to Mika's music is that it didn't smell industrial like most of today's music does."

 

He can be a product at a certain level but it feels good he doesn't smell industrial. Does it make any sense?